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megane posted:I suggested painting a big red line down the middle of the empire and letting them each run half of it. The throne’s pretty wide, you know, they can just sort of squeeze in there together. Their first case: cocks pistol, the murder of Gesar Lasya.
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Feb 20, 2021 03:54
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NewMars posted:Their first case: cocks pistol, the murder of Gesar Lasya. Oh now THAT would be a plot twist!
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Feb 20, 2021 04:36
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megane posted:I suggested painting a big red line down the middle of the empire and letting them each run half of it. The throne’s pretty wide, you know, they can just sort of squeeze in there together. Which is the slob and which is the neat freak?
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Feb 20, 2021 05:05
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Kangxi posted:
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Feb 20, 2021 06:07
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The vote is closed.
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Kangxi posted:
 
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Feb 20, 2021 07:01
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Kangxi posted:
CIVIL WAR! CIVIL WAR!
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Feb 20, 2021 11:57
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Lol I meant to switch my vote at the last second to avoid this and forgot 
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Feb 20, 2021 13:53
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Feb 20, 2021 17:10
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:Swapping from B to C because uhhh This is incredible.
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Feb 20, 2021 17:33
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Does this mean we're not getting a new pyramid?
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Feb 20, 2021 18:14
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habeasdorkus posted:Does this mean we're not getting a new pyramid? What's your opinión on skulls as a building material?
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Feb 20, 2021 22:16
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:What's your opinión on skulls as a building material? They should only be used for thrones.
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Feb 20, 2021 23:14
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:What's your opinión on skulls as a building material? They're not as good as rock at larger scale load bearing, but I could dig it.
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Feb 21, 2021 01:44
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Semi-related: The new CK3 dev diary mentions a new Tibetan cultural unit - Mountaineers.
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Feb 23, 2021 18:14
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Hello all, a brief update. I'm sorry for the delays, work and then computer trouble have kept me away. Now both those problems are set aside for now, I expect to continue a better update schedule, with something hopefully coming up this month and then more frequently over the spring and summer.  Portrait of Ayusi, a Dzunghar warrior in the employ of the Qing Dynasty. Painted by Giuseppe Castiglione (Lang Shiming)
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Mar 19, 2021 21:12
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Kangxi posted:
This guy has a gun, a quiver of arrows, a bayonet attached to a bamboo stick, and a little anti-pooping cover on his horses rear-end. Ayusi doesn't know what he's doing. At least his hat is nice.
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Mar 19, 2021 21:43
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Ralepozozaxe posted:This guy has a gun, a quiver of arrows, a bayonet attached to a bamboo stick, and a little anti-pooping cover on his horses rear-end. Ayusi doesn't know what he's doing. At least his hat is nice. The spear is basically a "modern" lance. Presumably, the bow is on the other side of his body along with a sword 
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Mar 19, 2021 21:48
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Chapter 78: 1720 to 1727 - The Wars of Tibetan Succession The Memoirs of Tashi Dbas existed only in fragmentary form for many years, and only a short description of events was published, often as a translation study for students of Classical Tibetan. However, in 1974, a remarkable archival discovery found the draft version of the Memoirs of Tashi Dbas. Published for the first time in 1990 after years of translation and editing work, these works provide an intimate, unvarnished portrait of one of the most outstanding and controversial figures in this period of Tibetan history Never in my life could I have imagined being where I was. To sit down with and eat the same food as empresses; to move from the most distant and inhospitable corners of the world to the most prosperous. I could eat meat most days of the week. I have to stop myself from running the golden thread in fabric over my fingers. I don't want it to wear out. It was as if every day is Losar - but I cannot let myself be distracted for too long. In the year 1720, (1132 in the Islamic calendar, or Year 3 in the new republican calendar), the empress Gesar Lasya took a small retinue on a hunting expedition. Amid the tumult of horns and drums, the old empress, survivor of many battles, killed many animals and was celebrated by her lords and retainers. Though the largest boar was not eaten. The meat was old and tough. It was at this informal setting that she announced her plans for succession, and at this, even the most humble retainer and guardsman could not but break protocol and attempt to listen in. The nobles of court drink their chaang from their warmed brass bowls in silence, their mutual contempt barely concealed.  The great empress, acknowledging her lack of a formal heir, announces that she will grant the title empress of Tibet to two claimants simultaneously - one being a young member of the ancient Purgyal family, another to a less ancient but still notable figure - myself, Tashi Dbas, a favorite of the empress in court. The young boy is so terrified to be in our presence that he can barely speak. He has nothing, only his name. And yet they still follow him. It will not be him. A nobleman hands him some candied fruit so he can calm down. I announced my gratitude towards the great empress.  At this, the old general Dorje protests, saying that the scheme is doomed to failure. The empire is too vast to be ruled in this way. Shaking her fists, she proclaims that this is like the parable of the child in the chalk circle. The child had two mothers claiming it was each hers. An old judge announced that the child would placed in a chalk circle and each claimant would pull on the child to receive it. Except, the general says, none of the claimants would beg for the foolishness to stop, and the child, like the empire, would be torn apart. Outraged, the empress dismisses the old general and exiles her from her court. That is an honest person, I thought. She cannot stop herself from saying what she thinks. it would be good to find her later.  The empress then makes her final arrangements, promoting some loyal officials from Sichuan,   and rewarding some loyal priests and lay practitioners inside and outside of the church, in order to maintain their loyalty. There are some institutions and rules that one must not break. She therefore declares her time as empress finished; being the first empress to leave the throne voluntarily in centuries. The first empress of Tibet, mind you, but the first empress of China to do this in centuries.  Having thus resigned herself from the problems of the empire, alliances continued to shift around Tibet, recognizing the new behemoth which held sway over much of what was owned by petty kingdoms. It took less than a year for the arrangement to break down. Having read enough history, inheritance disputes come as no surprise.  The start of the war came in secret and at first silently; nobles' disputes and assassinations become broader conflicts; the figures of myself, the empress' favorite, or Tenzin, the Purgyal, becoming banners to rally around. How could she be inheritor of the empire, they say. A fraud, a cheat, a seducer...  I had to move quickly to prevent further confusion; I secured Lhasa itself and announced that my brother, Ralpacan, named after a great king of old, would succeed me in the case of disaster. The old empress passed away soon after this; she died peacefully in her bed after a day of tending her flowers. She confided to me she was the lonesomest person in the world, and in court, she expressed envy of the great Gyalyum the Benevolent and wept openly at the great operas about her life. Saying you deeply admire someone can either mean you want to be like them or you want to gently caress them. I owe her everything. Whatever she needed, I hope that I was able to provide that to her, even in an imperfect way, for some time. I did not want what she owned, in the end, I wanted only to be the next empress.  I had to speak to those at court and assure them of my legitimacy and authority, speaking the old empress' name as a blessing, and I called for prosperity for the people and a restored greatness for the empire.  The boy fled to the countryside. Nobles soon followed him; he would be propped on a horse and used as a symbol for their own ends. All he had besides that was his name.   That was not enough; more relatives of his, however distant or tenuous their claim to the imperial seat even was, all crawled out of the woodwork to stake their claims.  Since the time of Sima Qian, it has been the responsibility of every dynasty to write the history of its predecessor. The History of Wu (吳史), written in Lhasa, was short and may have to be folded into a greater book. Wu only claimed the imperial seat for 18 years, we did not have access to all of the archival sources of note, and there was little to tell. All Wu was was a precursor to what is now.   Back to the point - my army met with the group assembled around the young Purgyal just outside of Derge. He was still too young to have accomplished anything, rebellious nobility may have attempted to form an alternative seat of government using him as a figurehead, but now we will never know. Their infantry charged bravely, but ultimately he failed because he had more Tibetans with cannons and lines of fire against him than for him. The boy vanished. He may have died; stories say he may have fled further north, where the land is harsh but the nomads, if he can find them, are unfailingly hospitable. I did not attend the battle. I did speak to a Khalkha Mongol who did observe it from a distance with his looking glass. He told me, laughing, "They were throwing stones at us."   That was not the end of our trouble; far from it. There are still more Purgyals. More knives for more chests.  From Burma to the Pearl River Delta, they rebelled.  At this point, the necessary task was to remove traitorous and disloyal elements from power and prosecute them to the full extent possible. They have their own selfish ends; they cannot be allowed to continue.  Rebellions continued to break out. "She only kills", they say about me.  All attempts to cede from imperial control or to advance the interests of a minor group of nobles. Small groups are easily controlled. They heard stories about the young Purgyal - his own inexperience became a story of nobility in defeat. If he's dead, they'll rally around him. If he's still alive, they'll use him as a symbol to rally around.  I had heard word of the fall of Canton, and I clasped my hands open and shut, nearly losing my composure for the first time ever in front of the court. But the next news gave me only the greatest relief-  As if by a miracle, the general Dorje came back to join us. Such loyalty and such faith are miraculous. I tell her to bite.   The Purgyals were defeated again. At that point, survival, even victory, became not just something dreamed but a reality. For a moment.  One morning, I awoke and I heard the mob outside of Potala; they were burning the city outside of the walls. They were screaming about the purification of fire, what the stars said, about the destruction of the kingdom, the creation of a new world, the end of heaven's blessing over the kingdom. I already held a knife and a flintlock pistol on myself always, and now poison in case of capture.  Inside the city, I could only wait for the army to return. I made many visits to the temples and prayed before the wrathful tutelary deities for protection.  The soldiers around me deserted or attempted to join the mob. Some were celebrated; others had reputations too heinous for the people to forgive and they were mutilated and the bodies thrown from the roofs. I thought of the old empresses and prayed for their advice - what would they do? Would Gyalyum the Benevolent talk them all down, lead them all to glory? Would Pakmodru Tse pray for their behalf? What did they do in the plague years? What do I do? What would you tell me? History whispers. Then it shouts. I cannot just say "well, this reminds me of a story..." with every new tragedy. The world is greater, more violent, more out of balance.  It was as if all history was moving faster, with forces acting beyond anyone's control. Great dreams were unleashed and speeches were produced, all to be given their space in a few moments or an hour before they were gently brushed aside by the hot wind of fate. I asked everyone I could talk to about the news, asking for more information what was happening in the city. It took considerable effort to stop myself from only following events but instead acting upon them. This is the time where emperors may die. The more powerful the guns are, the more fragile the institution of monarchy becomes. And if I lined up every noble I hated against the wall and shot them myself, that would buy me a few more days, at best. Anger at evil is not quenched by little gestures. Then the crowd would hunger for me. Then what? Rage is not always placated by small gestures.  It takes some time to step over the empty bodies of the dead before you set out to what you intend to do. And I've heard distant moral philosophers from the far west talk about doing evil to do good; that to me seems like an excuse people make for themselves. One must regard these events dispassionately and with a regard for the more complex relationship between cause and effect, to prevent a bad war and a worse peace of more Purgyal stagnation, and keep the power of death and destruction on a tight leash; for that is the state. I ordered the gates open. The cannons fired upon them all.  More Purgyals, too, soon face the sword, each throwing themselves against our armies before their generals tell them they are lost;  though our administration started to buckle under the strain.  Eventually, the army recovered the distant city of Nenchin, but at great cost. All of the line infantry and cavalry were defeated, and it was only the artillery emplacements that drove them out of the city.  But at that point, we had to recognize what damage was done; the south was given up in our haste to recapture the Bengal areas and the eastern provinces.  But we could count enough victories to ensure that we might win this after all.  One wonders about kingdoms dissolved, governments in exile. Ayiti, once one of the greatest empires of the west, had dissolved completely; a republic now ruled from their colonial fort at Coimbra.  But for us, the east was secure. I nodded when I heard the news, went to my quarters, and screamed into a pillow and laughed as if I was mad. It might be won.  Even as our distant possessions - all the Sakalava lands were lost.  History is not brought forth to light by the idle complacency or the ignorance of the old aristocracy alone, that stone will soon crumble. The enslaved and the poor cry out for their own place in the world; they cannot be long ignored.  Our tributaries, the Shun, also abandoned us. I recall, years ago, the parliament wanted us to take more from them - we will in time.   What was left of the army was sent south to the Bengali districts, and then further south to Pegu.   It would make no sense to send them to the more remote and forested areas to the east - that would make as much sense as sending them to the more distant territories. The Shan territory, Lan Na, the Maluku Islands - all lost for now. We'd have to gather our forces elsewhere.  We'd have to promote new officers and bureaucrats to replace those lost. Find good literate people from the south and east, and make them know that our empire can provide stability and prosperity for them too...  Or some could just be bought off. I'd heard other powers were buying land and ports here - if only it were that easy for us.  I admit I at first had my own motives when I first came to befriend and grow close to the old empress. I thought I yearned for the good life she could provide and the prospect of personal security. But as time passes, and as I grew more sympathetic to her, I understood the extent of that lonesomeness she understood. Did that drive all her actions? No. But there is a strange isolation in comes from this position, and in understanding that everyone else is a supplicant, or awed by your presence, or positions themselves as your servant and in silence dream themselves your master. Small wonder everyone envies what Gyalyum the Benevolent and Pakmodru Tse had.  I would be lying to you if I didn't say everybody else in the palace didn't fret about Anatolia, with the emperor strangled and a new republic proclaimed. Every hereditary aristocrat fears losing their possessions and status, and becoming poor, wandering, insecure in a world they cannot navigate. Above all else, they fear becoming what I was once. Anatolia is proof that it is possible.  I set up an arranged marriage with the Khalkha Mongols. He is nice enough. He at best is capable of running a decent-size estate or a herd of animals; he has no mind for greater business. This I can tolerate so long as I don't have to deal with unsolicited advice.   The empire itself is still fragile - there are not enough people to conscript for the armies, we do not have enough left in the treasury. The coins are debased and worth less and less. We need more silver, more troops. If we have a decade to recover perhaps we can begin to recover some lost territories or maybe move against Shun.  And beyond survive, one must imagine the shape of the future empire - what rites it follows, what books it teaches, what philosophy must be maintained. One must get to work immediately. I, too, must be great. I work not out of any immediate demands but out of the suspicion that something is wrong and that ancient forces and gods may align to give me trouble. Bon follows spiritual essences of nature; that may be hard to reconcile with other beliefs and rites.  It was at that time I heard the news of war in our south and west. The Punjab armies had made their way into Kashmir and were headed east. The successors of Tibet's old empire, with all its power, wealth, and might, had come to have its revenge upon the new. Kangxi fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Apr 2, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 05:58
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Two Empires enter... One leaves! It's the Tibet vs Tibet match of the century
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Mar 30, 2021 06:08
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Overextending may have been a mistake.
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Mar 30, 2021 06:40
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idhrendur posted:Overextending may have been a mistake.
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Mar 30, 2021 14:23
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We could have just married the purgyal We could have just
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Mar 30, 2021 16:32
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I'm not much of an EU4 player but this looks bad, almost like we're in for another long century of conflict. Assuming we have a century left, I think EU4 ends 1835? Or if Kangxi ends it sooner to help with the conversion.
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Mar 30, 2021 19:01
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Look on the bright side - if we leave any significant social impact on the eastern holdings, we'll have not one but TWO regions of imperial successor states. Di-diadochi.
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Mar 30, 2021 19:36
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I wonder what the mandate is at right now.
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Mar 30, 2021 20:15
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Welp, we voted for this. I, for one, think that this whole problem of legitimacy can be settled with a brand new giant fuckoff pyramid.
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Mar 30, 2021 20:51
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In a few hundred years there'll be a colorful yearly festival where children compete to submit the most ridiculous candidate for empress, the funniest one is selected (this year's winner: a yak with the word "Purgyal" painted on the side), and then everyone stages a mock civil war with elaborate costumes and confetti cannons.
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Mar 30, 2021 21:03
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megane posted:In a few hundred years there'll be a colorful yearly festival where children compete to submit the most ridiculous candidate for empress, the funniest one is selected (this year's winner: a yak with the word "Purgyal" painted on the side), and then everyone stages a mock civil war with elaborate costumes and confetti cannons. The televised version can have a catchy theme song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_fsruG0s_0
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Mar 30, 2021 22:48
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megane posted:In a few hundred years there'll be a colorful yearly festival where children compete to submit the most ridiculous candidate for empress, the funniest one is selected (this year's winner: a yak with the word "Purgyal" painted on the side), and then everyone stages a mock civil war with elaborate costumes and confetti cannons. And that's what we voted for!
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Mar 31, 2021 01:25
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Don't blame me, I voted for the yak.
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Mar 31, 2021 01:30
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Mar 31, 2021 18:51
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VOTE: 1727 This was supposed to have been an ordinary inspection tour. Visiting holy sites, observing the rebuilding of agricultural works, water mills and canals, inspecting grain and potato farms, maybe sneaking off to do a bit of hunting. The Empress and her best general, Dorje Sonam Wangdi, went off for a walk alone to discuss some sensitive affairs of state when they are visited by a beggar woman, who pleads with them, tears running down her dirt-streaked face, for any bit of help. "Certainly", said the Empress, fishing around her person, hoping she didn't leave all her money back at her tent. She finds a single silver coin and presses it dutifully in the beggar's hand. "Is that it?" she cries, flinging the coin at the empress' forehead. If you were a real ruler like Gyalyum the Benevolent or Yu the Great, you'd have some food! I can't eat this! The markets are empty, I can't even buy anything!" She stormed off in anger, and the empress only looks at the coin, her face unreadable, as the general tried to convince the beggar to come back to the army camp and have some soup or a barley cake. No luck. Everyone avoids the army when they can. ============================================================= The empress was in a distant and philosophical mood the next morning. She prayed to past deified emperors for guidance and protection, and gathered a small circle of informal advisors around her. A servant lights her tobacco pipe. "If we cannot give the people the five grains and safety from fear," she began,  "they will storm the walls again and this court would perish. And we would deserve it for our incompetence." Awkward shifting from the ministers. They to make themselves avoid her look, just sitting there. "The empire has to make itself stronger in order to survive, the question is how." "We have had evil times in the past, we live in evil times now. Our children may again live in evil times. Even the wise may be duped and made into beggars and fools should they not govern their military and their bureaucracy, and provide for the people. But we know the chaos, the deprivation of this world. I must remove it to the full extent of my ability. Explain to me how you think this should be done." At this, the general Dorje offers some points. "We now administer a vast territory, the largest in over three hundred years. The population of the empire has already nearly doubled, and should we move to conquer territory north of the Yangtze, more people will reside in our eastern provinces than all the rest of the empire combined. If we are to address the concerns and rule uprightly, then we will need a degree of accommodation. We can adopt governing structures and rites from historical records, from the last time a single empire ruled over the entire region for some time, but combine them with the best of our moral principles. We can reestablish a bureaucracy, gather correct information, and so institute a more knowledgeable form of governance. Our people grow exhausted - it is in rites and veneration of the gods that we may soothe and provide for them." A) Vote to adopt some Confucian rites and practices, with the aim of integrating them with our own religious and political structure. Mechanically, our tag will convert to Confucian, but we will aim to form a harmonized relationship with Bon as soon as practicable, or at least maintain a higher tolerance stat. In response, the governor of Assam protests. "Accommodate them? THEY will accommodate US. The empire can be powerful as it once was, exactly as it was, and the perfection of the legal practices and religious institutions established centuries ago requires no change. We do not need Confucius! He can rot. We know what harm his filial piety can do - all those Purgyals who died for that boy instead of the benefit of the whole kingdom and all the rest of the people in it."  After all, we have already found much to learn from other sages and books of wisdom, and their many schools. That is now a part of Bön and all Tibet and we are wiser from them. They say, quite rightly, that the way is invisible, and the wise cannot discern it. The wise ruler keeps their intentions mysterious, and their point of view objective, and so makes correct decisions. A wise emperor can ascertain the thoughts of ministers and prevent disorder - no old tradition is enough for that. B) Vote to retain the previous style of imperial governance and religious relations more generally. We will not formally adopt the broad majority of Confucian rites and practices. Mechanically, we will stay Restorationist Bön, with all the benefits and challenges that brings.  The vote will conclude on Wednesday, April 7th, at 9 PM EST. And, while it should be obvious, I will point out that the result of this vote will be moot should we lose the empire in the next update.
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Apr 5, 2021 05:35
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B)ön If the empire wasn't meant to be Bön, we wouldn't have the Mandate of Heaven in the first place. Why should we change for some backwater provinces that weren't strong enough to resist our might?
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Apr 5, 2021 05:46
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B) The empire has been Bön for nearly 1000 years, why change it now?
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Apr 5, 2021 05:59
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B This is a Tibet campaign, for as much as we might control China or India at various times.
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Apr 5, 2021 06:33
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Is there a limit to how many religions can be harmonized with Confucianism in EU4?
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Apr 5, 2021 07:00
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In my far trips to the West, who are less savage that the stories make them to be, I've met with one their landholders they call Modi, a giant of a woman quick to laugh and flirt. She had two children, a girl and a boy. The girl she raised as proper Norse, to pay respect to her mother, and all her mothers before her and perform the blot with their choicest animals. The boy she sent to the Calcemac, to learn Nahua, worship in the temples and travel the Great Western Sea. When the wars broke out she had her children in opposite armies. "Why would you have your children fight each other?" I asked. She said: "If the Norse win my daughter shall hold this land and will have to respect her brother, since they are kin. If the Nahua win my son will lead the temple and will have to respect her sister since they are kin. The have to be balanced, like a sword, it's the only way to reach Harmony." A
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Apr 5, 2021 07:16
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B We are something greater than mere China on its own.
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Apr 5, 2021 07:45
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B
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Apr 5, 2021 07:51
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Pacho posted:In my far trips to the West, who are less savage that the stories make them to be, I've met with one their landholders they call Modi, a giant of a woman quick to laugh and flirt. She had two children, a girl and a boy. The girl she raised as proper Norse, to pay respect to her mother, and all her mothers before her and perform the blot with their choicest animals. The boy she sent to the Calcemac, to learn Nahua, worship in the temples and travel the Great Western Sea. When the wars broke out she had her children in opposite armies. ... and you didn't say, "That's the most nonsensical thing I've ever heard, what if the Norse win and your daughter dies, or if the Nahua win and your son dies, or both of them die regardless of who wins?" B
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Apr 5, 2021 08:09
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