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I wonder how much it would help to have the option to just use an app on your phone instead of a kiosk, like online ordering through GrubHub or whatever.
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Apr 18, 2017 19:59
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DeusExMachinima posted:Considering the existence of UberEats and the like, I wonder if the hold up is the lack of delivery. If someone's already at a restaurant, they might as well do it the easiest way and maybe they want the human element too. If you're touchpadding it from home, who cares? Uber wants to eventually have an automated on-call fleet so maybe the kitchen staff will just swipe their RFID card on the car's deposit slot to give it the food and then the customer will do the same with an auto-generated QR code on a smartphone screen to retrieve it outside at the curb or in their driveway. uber will never have an automated on call fleet, they will be out of business in a few years. if you were going to set up some fantasy techno automated food delivery service drones make way more sense, there's no reason to use a 2500 pound vehicle to deliver a pizza by itself Pope Guilty posted:I wonder how much it would help to have the option to just use an app on your phone instead of a kiosk, like online ordering through GrubHub or whatever. yeah apps are more likely to take over than kiosks but if you have the option of easy delivery you probably wont be getting fast food delivered. like who would pay an extra delivery surcharge for crappy hamburgers when you have dozens of other options
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Apr 18, 2017 20:04
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boner confessor posted:uber will never have an automated on call fleet, they will be out of business in a few years. if you were going to set up some fantasy techno automated food delivery service drones make way more sense, there's no reason to use a 2500 pound vehicle to deliver a pizza by itself I am baffled by Uber's interest in automated cars when not having to own any of the capital with which the work is done is like 90% of their business plan, but I would completely believe that Kalanick et al are sufficiently dumb to not understand what they're doing on that level. quote:yeah apps are more likely to take over than kiosks but if you have the option of easy delivery you probably wont be getting fast food delivered. like who would pay an extra delivery surcharge for crappy hamburgers when you have dozens of other options I mean like in the restaurant- use your location services or specify which restaurant you're at and it just sends to the POS system. Pay through the app to discourage pranks and you could even submit an order for pickup before you arrive.
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Apr 18, 2017 20:31
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Pope Guilty posted:I am baffled by Uber's interest in automated cars when not having to own any of the capital with which the work is done is like 90% of their business plan, but I would completely believe that Kalanick et al are sufficiently dumb to not understand what they're doing on that level. desperate swerve to keep investor storytime going and keeping the whole scheme afloat for a while. uber's business model makes no sense with self driving cars and they're just latching on to somewhat related technology Pope Guilty posted:I mean like in the restaurant- use your location services or specify which restaurant you're at and it just sends to the POS system. Pay through the app to discourage pranks and you could even submit an order for pickup before you arrive. yeah this is somewhat feasible but eventually you'd need some kind of security system to prevent people from walking off with other people's food which would be some locking cubby gadget or just a person to validate who you are
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Apr 18, 2017 20:35
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It's entirely possible that they legitimately think that "we're like taxis except with an app" is the reason they're successful. Of course the actual key to their success is "we're like taxis except we make our drivers hold all the risk."
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Apr 18, 2017 20:41
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twodot posted:Tasks that are less complicated are by definition less interesting and less worthwhile to automate. Like humanity has the capacity to build robots that pass the butter, but we don't because the societal cost of humans passing around butter is basically zero. If 3 million adults had to spend their entire working time passing butter around to make society work, we might take a different approach. Societal cost? Don't joke around - the force driving automation is cost to businesses, and I'm pretty sure railroad engineers and conductors represent a cost that rail companies wouldn't mind automating away. boner confessor posted:you dont need a complicated sensor suite to determine the optimal speed at which to drive a truck. you just drive at the posted speed limit The only realistic and practical way for self-driving cars to determine what the posted speed limit is involves using complicated sensor suites to detect and read physical street signs There are other technically feasible ways to do it but no serious chance of them happening
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Apr 18, 2017 20:43
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boner confessor posted:desperate swerve to keep investor storytime going and keeping the whole scheme afloat for a while. uber's business model makes no sense with self driving cars and they're just latching on to somewhat related technology I'm envisioning pretty much the system in place now except you have your order number on your screen instead of on a receipt. Maybe "remote orders" get placed in a particular spot until somebody shows up with the right number?
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Apr 18, 2017 20:44
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Main Paineframe posted:The only realistic and practical way for self-driving cars to determine what the posted speed limit is involves using complicated sensor suites to detect and read physical street signs When my car was being worked on about a year ago, I got a loaner Nissan Altima that displayed the current speed limit next to my current speed. Seemed accurate.
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Apr 18, 2017 20:46
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boner confessor posted:yeah this is somewhat feasible but eventually you'd need some kind of security system to prevent people from walking off with other people's food which would be some locking cubby gadget or just a person to validate who you are Wouldn't it function identically to the present system except instead of getting an order number on a paper ticket, you get one on your phone?
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Apr 18, 2017 20:50
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Pope Guilty posted:I am baffled by Uber's interest in automated cars when not having to own any of the capital with which the work is done is like 90% of their business plan, but I would completely believe that Kalanick et al are sufficiently dumb to not understand what they're doing on that level. Uber doesn't plan on owning their future fleet of self-driving cars. There's no reason they can't continue their current business model of "provide services using other people's property" with self-driving cars.
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Apr 18, 2017 20:50
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Main Paineframe posted:The only realistic and practical way for self-driving cars to determine what the posted speed limit is involves using complicated sensor suites to detect and read physical street signs or they could reference an internal database of road networks? that's how GPS units work and have worked for years and those dont try to scan road signs or anything. many highways are experimenting with variable speed limits, it would be trivial to have them broadcast a local "the speed limit is now 45" signal for robot vehicles Dr. Stab posted:Wouldn't it function identically to the present system except instead of getting an order number on a paper ticket, you get one on your phone? Pope Guilty posted:I'm envisioning pretty much the system in place now except you have your order number on your screen instead of on a receipt. Maybe "remote orders" get placed in a particular spot until somebody shows up with the right number? how it works most of the time is that ubereats, yelp's eat24, and old fashioned call in orders are processed by some designated employee at the restaurant and then set aside. the customer or pickup will come get it, there's usually a short conversation like "i'm joe, i ordered the meatball sub" and the employee hands over the food. if you wanted to remove the employee from this equation to validate the customer's identity and confirm payment you'd need to generate a qr code or something because it would be trivial to just walk off with more food than you paid for. this actually happens with some regularity, it's just that pick up orders aren't frequent enough for it to be a problem worth solving with technology. i'd think scanning your phone at some kiosk which then says "your meal is in locker 24" which then pops open would be the most straightforward way to do it, but then this assumes sufficient volume of pickup orders to dedicate infrastructure to it Main Paineframe posted:Uber doesn't plan on owning their future fleet of self-driving cars. There's no reason they can't continue their current business model of "provide services using other people's property" with self-driving cars. i would imagine people are way less comfortable allowing strangers into their personal vehicles when the vehicle owner is not also in the vehicle. imagine your robot car rolling up to your house in time for church on sunday morning full of boozy vomit and used condoms
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Apr 18, 2017 21:04
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boner confessor posted:or they could reference an internal database of road networks? that's how GPS units work and have worked for years and those dont try to scan road signs or anything. many highways are experimenting with variable speed limits, it would be trivial to have them broadcast a local "the speed limit is now 45" signal for robot vehicles the car will have internal lidar with a boink-detecting neural net and will eject boinking passengers mid-coitus
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Apr 18, 2017 21:18
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upgrade to uber platinum for a free gently caress license uber silver plans and below will charge a $200 cleaning fee per unauthorized gently caress without some kind of detection technology self driving privately owned ubers will be a prime choice for teens to sneak off and gently caress at night boner confessor fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Apr 18, 2017 |
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Apr 18, 2017 21:19
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boner confessor posted:i would imagine people are way less comfortable allowing strangers into their personal vehicles when the vehicle owner is not also in the vehicle. imagine your robot car rolling up to your house in time for church on sunday morning full of boozy vomit and used condoms Yaris, I raised you better *sad beep*
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Apr 18, 2017 21:35
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boner confessor posted:upgrade to uber platinum for a free gently caress license apart from used comdoms on the backseat i see no problem though???
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Apr 18, 2017 21:38
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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rscott posted:No, Airbus pilots not trained in alternate rule mode is what caused air France 447 to crash Yes, this. There's a good discussion to be had about the implications of automated behaviour becoming so intricate that it's not easy to predict what it's going to do (see also the Asiana flight that crashed in SFO), but that's different from having an autopilot that can hold heading and altitude at the pilot's discretion, or having a FADEC so that pilots of complex pistons or turboprops don't have to remember manifold pressure and RPM setting combos.
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Apr 18, 2017 21:46
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blowfish posted:apart from used comdoms on the backseat i see no problem though??? just further economic inequality, top tier cadillac uber subscriptions will subsidize unauthorized loving whereas the bare bones plan will actively penalize the sex hungry poor
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Apr 18, 2017 21:47
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Pope Guilty posted:I am baffled by Uber's interest in automated cars when not having to own any of the capital with which the work is done is like 90% of their business plan, but I would completely believe that Kalanick et al are sufficiently dumb to not understand what they're doing on that level. Because keeping 100% of a fare sounds nice when you're currently only keeping ~20% of it, and if some rear end in a top hat can keep his car on the road and pay the rent with the other 80% than Uber can probably do the same, especially when you consider how advantageous it can be to depreciate an asset like that for tax purposes I get that they don't actually pay people enough to eat, I'm saying it wouldn't be totally insane if they actually charged sane fares
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Apr 18, 2017 21:54
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call to action posted:Because keeping 100% of a fare sounds nice when you're currently only keeping ~20% of it, and if some rear end in a top hat can keep his car on the road and pay the rent with the other 80% than Uber can probably do the same, especially when you consider how advantageous it can be to depreciate an asset like that for tax purposes it's hard to say if uber can turn a buck with self driving cars given that there aren't many full time uber drivers (entirely a part time weekend job) and uber's own finances are completely out of whack by subsidizing rides to gain market share if uber assumes ownership of the vehicle, they also assume responsibility and would have to pay for upkeep and fuel for the vehicle. this would necessitate outsourcing or the development of centralized car care centers that the car returns to for servicing (cleaning, refueling, repair) by an uber employee. this would be a massive expansion of uber's expenditures, since they currently assume none of that cost if uber doesn't assume ownership of the vehicle, they have to persuade a sufficient number of people to allow uber to use a privately owned, brand new, experimental vehicle to drive strangers around to unknown places for unknown lengths of time. there's all kinds of mischeif people can get up to abusing this system, from using cars as rolling sex pads to moving drugs to all kinds of fun and exotic illegal behavior
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Apr 18, 2017 22:00
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Pope Guilty posted:I'm envisioning pretty much the system in place now except you have your order number on your screen instead of on a receipt. Maybe "remote orders" get placed in a particular spot until somebody shows up with the right number? I feel like I'm missing a joke or something, because there are a ton of fast food restaurants that literally do exactly this and have for a while now. I end up eating Five Guys a pretty decent amount since I have a couple of friends who really love it, and I've never bought food there without doing it through either their website or their mobile app. Off the top of my head, I know Panera and Chipotle do this as well. Panera just has a shelf that they put your food on. Paradoxish fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Apr 18, 2017 |
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Apr 18, 2017 22:02
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Main Paineframe posted:Uber doesn't plan on owning their future fleet of self-driving cars. There's no reason they can't continue their current business model of "provide services using other people's property" with self-driving cars. Sure there is: there's 0 incentive for you as the guy who just bought a fancy expensive car to let Uber use it for you. And it will take quite a long time before the tech involved gets cheap enough for there to be millions of the cars around for Uber to pull from anyway, from people who are more interested in making money from fares then having their fancy self-driving car always accountable to them. So Uber would basically need to find some way to hang around 10-20 years at least before they can really offer self-driving cars as a consistent service. boner confessor posted:or they could reference an internal database of road networks? that's how GPS units work and have worked for years and those dont try to scan road signs or anything. many highways are experimenting with variable speed limits, it would be trivial to have them broadcast a local "the speed limit is now 45" signal for robot vehicles Those databases are frequently out of date, or completely missing data for significant chunks of the road. And lol if you think all the various little authorities in charge of roads are going to make sure to update the 10 different competing databases or provide a broadcast signal replacement just to benefit a few rich people in their cars, when they often can't be bothered to repaint the road markings on a consistent schedule. Sure you'll be covered on major highways already, but like so many other things it quickly falls to pieces on surface roadways. It's the same sort of problem as relying on comprehensive mapping to take care of making sure the car goes the right place using the right lanes and so on.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:08
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fishmech posted:Those databases are frequently out of date, or completely missing data for significant chunks of the road. And lol if you think all the various little authorities in charge of roads are going to make sure to update the 10 different competing databases or provide a broadcast signal replacement just to benefit a few rich people in their cars, when they often can't be bothered to repaint the road markings on a consistent schedule. this isn't a problem with technology though, but regulation. your comment about "all the various little authorities" is incorrect, the census bureau already compiles the TIGER shapefile containing basically every transportation link in america and provides it for free (no warranty, for statistical purposes) https://www.census.gov/geo/maps-data/data/tiger-line.html it wouldn't be hard to enhance this and build/maintain a master government database of road networks and conditions if there were some actual need for it... like enforcing speed limits on self driving cars, something the government absolutely has a regulatory interest in. the problem here isn't technological but, again, societal boner confessor fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Apr 18, 2017 |
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Apr 18, 2017 22:15
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I just assumed roads would be retrofitted with RFID chips "displaying" the speed limit and that Uber would just provide the app, someone else would technically own the cars. 
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Apr 18, 2017 22:16
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DeusExMachinima posted:I just assumed roads would be retrofitted with RFID chips "displaying" the speed limit and that Uber would just provide the app, someone else would technically own the cars. there's no reason to retrofit anything, the us government already has like 97% of a database of all roads in the us and they could make it an enforced standard for all automobile manufacturers if they wanted to, if there was a need for it
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Apr 18, 2017 22:17
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That'd probably be easier to use and keep up to date as long as the car doesn't get confused/lost due to a potential GPS screw-up. As a backup it can't be that hard to train a neural net to read speed signs with uniform lettering/numbering on them as long as there's no inclement weather, but lowered visibility at night/rain/etc already is a problem for human drivers in addition to the speeding.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:21
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i mean if you want to gently caress around with cameras reading the road signs you can do that but right now it's possible to install a relatively small file that contains basically all the speed limit information on any road in america with very high levels of accuracy which you could reference via gps or spatial reckoning
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Apr 18, 2017 22:22
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Paradoxish posted:I feel like I'm missing a joke or something, because there are a ton of fast food restaurants that literally do exactly this and have for a while now. I end up eating Five Guys a pretty decent amount since I have a couple of friends who really love it, and I've never bought food there without doing it through either their website or their mobile app. Off the top of my head, I know Panera and Chipotle do this as well. Panera just has a shelf that they put your food on. I've literally never once seen this anywhere, though I'll admit I don't go out very often lately.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:40
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boner confessor posted:i mean if you want to gently caress around with cameras reading the road signs you can do that but right now it's possible to install a relatively small file that contains basically all the speed limit information on any road in america with very high levels of accuracy which you could reference via gps or spatial reckoning The better safety and reaction time (as well as things like "always watching the god drat TRAFFIC LIGHT") of self-driving cars would make travel faster even with lower speeds because of synchronized braking/acceleration at signals rather than having the extra wait of everyone waiting for the car in front of them to start moving before moving themselves. That's only possible with dedicated roads or separated lanes where they're all self-driving, or where only like one in ten cars is driven manually.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:42
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boner confessor posted:i mean if you want to gently caress around with cameras reading the road signs you can do that but right now it's possible to install a relatively small file that contains basically all the speed limit information on any road in america with very high levels of accuracy which you could reference via gps or spatial reckoning Literally tape a rfid chip on every signpole. The drat things are next to free and we'd create jobs for unskilled labour out in the sticks.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:45
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FAUXTON posted:The better safety and reaction time (as well as things like "always watching the god drat TRAFFIC LIGHT") of self-driving cars would make travel faster even with lower speeds because of synchronized braking/acceleration at signals rather than having the extra wait of everyone waiting for the car in front of them to start moving before moving themselves. it would take at least a decade for half of the cars on the road to be self drivers even if every single car sold from the point of market viability is a self driver. not to mention all the holdouts loving it up for others by insisting on manual drive so they can speed. in some parts of the country cops will stop you for going even slightly over the limit but in other parts you'd have to be doing at least 20 over for a cop to bother (unless they have some other reason to pull you over) i agree that throughput would be better in a heavily self driver mix but plenty of americans regard driving over the speed limit as an entitlement and so would degrade general road efficiency (this is also part of why we have so many fatalities in the first place)
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Apr 18, 2017 22:47
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Dr. Stab posted:It's entirely possible that they legitimately think that "we're like taxis except with an app" is the reason they're successful. Of course the actual key to their success is "we're like taxis except we make our drivers hold all the risk." They're not even actually successful, since they're artificially suppressing their prices via spending investor money like it's going out of style to keep their ride prices competitive.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:50
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boner confessor posted:there's no reason to retrofit anything, the us government already has like 97% of a database of all roads in the us and they could make it an enforced standard for all automobile manufacturers if they wanted to, if there was a need for it A database with 97% of the roads is missing data for 3% of the roads by its nature. That's going to be a problem for the car that expects to rely on the database to ensure it's driving right. boner confessor posted:this isn't a problem with technology though, but regulation. your comment about "all the various little authorities" is incorrect, the census bureau already compiles the TIGER shapefile containing basically every transportation link in america and provides it for free (no warranty, for statistical purposes) If your approach to making a car self-drive safely relies on a database being up to date at all times, and that database isn't, I consider that to be a problem with the technology you're using to safely drive the car. The TIGER database you use as an example is issued for data valid as of January 1st, and usually doesn't actually come out til the summer of the same year - plenty of time for things to change especially among major road projects. Also the various governments of the country have a clear interest in not doing 100% enforcement on speed limits: literally every toll road in the country right now is capable of detecting drivers that consistently sped throughout their time on said toll road. Simply by comparing entry time and location to exit time and location (this obviously won't catch the guys who sped a little and then were more slowed down by traffic). This has even been possible if not practical since the first toll roads were invented in this country, due to the fact that checking overall trip speed for any single car's situation is very simple math. Yet tolling authorities do not bother to ticket all or any of the cars that provably sped due to their time/place entered and exited making it impossible to arrive in the time they took. They instead only choose specific speeders that cops catch in progress (and usually with an element of racial profiling involved). This is due to a distinct decision to allow routine speeding.
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Apr 18, 2017 22:58
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fishmech posted:A database with 97% of the roads is missing data for 3% of the roads by its nature. That's going to be a problem for the car that expects to rely on the database to ensure it's driving right. only 3% of the time, and given that roads are not traveled in equal volume (roads missing from the database are likely to be brand new and have low traffic) probably even less than that fishmech posted:If your approach to making a car self-drive safely relies on a database being up to date at all times, and that database isn't, I consider that to be a problem with the technology you're using to safely drive the car. The TIGER database you use as an example is issued for data valid as of January 1st, and usually doesn't actually come out til the summer of the same year - plenty of time for things to change especially among major road projects. uh, roads dont change that often. variable speed limits are really only a thing on major highways and interstates, and in limited places. a six month window for updates is adequate for the overwhelming majority of road lines. and this isn't about driving safely, this is just ensuring that self driving cars conform to the local posted speed limit fishmech posted:Also the various governments of the country have a clear interest in not doing 100% enforcement on speed limits: literally every toll road in the country right now is capable of detecting drivers that consistently sped throughout their time on said toll road. Simply by comparing entry time and location to exit time and location (this obviously won't catch the guys who sped a little and then were more slowed down by traffic). This has even been possible if not practical since the first toll roads were invented in this country, due to the fact that checking overall trip speed for any single car's situation is very simple math. your example doesn't hold up here, because you're talking about enforcing the regulations on humans, who can choose to disobey laws if they want to. it would be stupendously easy for the federal government to pass regulations that say "self driving cars must obey the speed limit at all times" just like they enforce other safety standards like airbags and seatbelts. the NHSTA already has the authority to enforce standards on car manufacturers. whether or not local authorities want to disregard a self driving car traveling above the speed limit is up to them, but the federal government could absolutely place limiters on vehicle speed if they wanted to. there's no technical solution to enforcing the speed limit among human drivers (many large trucks already have governors that limit their speed to 70mph) but you could enforce this limit much more easily with self driving cars
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Apr 18, 2017 23:05
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fishmech just to be sure you dont fishmech me or move your goalposts i'm not saying a database is mandatory for safe driving. i'm talking about the likelihood of the us government creating and enforcing a rule that self driving cars can't drive over the speed limit, and the technological obstacles preventing that regulation from being practical
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Apr 18, 2017 23:09
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boner confessor posted:uh, roads dont change that often. variable speed limits are really only a thing on major highways and interstates, and in limited places. a six month window for updates is adequate for the overwhelming majority of road lines. and this isn't about driving safely, this is just ensuring that self driving cars conform to the local posted speed limit Let me guess, you live in Cali? The northern half of the US has an 8 month season we refer to affectionately as Road Construction, where the lanes don't matter and the speed limits are made up.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:10
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Liquid Communism posted:Let me guess, you live in Cali? the sun belt, but at that point i'd imagine there's a lot of construction flags and barriers and poo poo up to warn human drivers about construction which self driving cars are going to have to honor independently of any internal database. some kind of really obvious sign for robots would do the trick here since you're setting up all kinds of warning signs anyway, which would be more practical in the short term than making all the street signs in america robot readable and legible
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Apr 18, 2017 23:17
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boner confessor posted:the sun belt, but at that point i'd imagine there's a lot of construction flags and barriers and poo poo up to warn human drivers about construction which self driving cars are going to have to honor independently of any internal database. some kind of really obvious sign for robots would do the trick here since you're setting up all kinds of warning signs anyway, which would be more practical in the short term than making all the street signs in america robot readable and legible Yeah, you really have no idea how road construction looks in places where there's a freeze/thaw cycle. You might, if you're lucky, get a flagger. If not, you get a folding 'lane closed ahead' and some orange barrels in the lane. Hell, this time of year we commonly have a DOT truck rolling down the road at ~5mph pulling an 8' trailer full of hot asphalt, with a couple guys walking alongside shoveling it into potholes.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:19
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well sounds like self driving cars are going to have a hell of a time gaining market share in soviet russia. dunno what this has to do with an internal speed limit database though when the problem appears to be more simple hazard avoidance https://vid.me/gwtx boner confessor fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Apr 18, 2017 |
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Apr 18, 2017 23:21
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boner confessor posted:well sounds like self driving cars are going to have a hell of a time gaining market share in soviet russia Or, you know, everything north of the Mason/Dixon.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:21
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the remotesville dot being underfunded is a distinct and separate issue from the feasibility of an internal database tho also undercuts the "read road signs" argument as well if one of the things you're claiming is the lack of temporary signage
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Apr 18, 2017 23:24
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