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OwlFancier posted:The monarch couldn't do much if they were governing minded, they have no official power as far as I know other than opening parliament and I think signing each government into office. Oh and appointing lords. I mean technically they have all the power because the executive power of the government is granted by the monarch, but they aren't supposed to do anything with it. Could a monarch refuse to open parliament if a parliamentary majority were elected on the agenda of "abolish monarchy"?
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Apr 15, 2015 23:44
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My Imaginary GF posted:Could a monarch refuse to open parliament if a parliamentary majority were elected on the agenda of "abolish monarchy"? In theory I think the monarch can refuse to open parliament because they got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning and don't feel like doing it. They just haven't done that in a few centuries.
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Apr 15, 2015 23:47
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The common opinion is that the monarchy would be brought to a rapid end if it the monarch refused to exercise one of his or her rubber-stamping functions. There would be no legal mechanism for this, of course, but the monarch's action or inaction would have destroyed the political settlement under which the current legal system operates. It would be a bit of a free for all in constitutional terms.
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Apr 16, 2015 02:30
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PerpetualSelf posted:Or non-existant. Could you post what country you are from so I can link you any number of powerful elites raping children scandals
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Apr 16, 2015 04:23
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Serotonin posted:Lol if you truly believe this. Byolante posted:Could you post what country you are from so I can link you any number of powerful elites raping children scandals Oh so you both admit that it's natural and normal for men to be pedophiles?
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Apr 16, 2015 04:31
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PerpetualSelf posted:Oh so you both admit that it's natural and normal for men to be pedophiles? Nobody said that, PerpetualSelf.
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Apr 16, 2015 05:22
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PerpetualSelf posted:Oh so you both admit that it's natural and normal for men to be pedophiles? when they are rich, yeah. Seems to come with the territory of unearned wealth I personally think it's an initiation thing, to demonstrate one's willingness to gently caress the meek and helpless
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Apr 16, 2015 05:29
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PerpetualSelf posted:Oh so you both admit that it's natural and normal for men to be pedophiles? Even if one assumes that that is true it doesn't change the fact that it's wrong to have sex with anyone who cannot give meaningful consent.
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Apr 16, 2015 05:54
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:when they are rich, yeah. Seems to come with the territory of unearned wealth What is the difference between a rich and a poor person? AVeryLargeRadish posted:Even if one assumes that that is true it doesn't change the fact that it's wrong to have sex with anyone who cannot give meaningful consent. I never said that it wasn't. Exclamation Marx posted:Nobody said that, PerpetualSelf. Well it's either that or Old Brits are more pedophile than other people.
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Apr 16, 2015 06:00
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PerpetualSelf is doing a terrible job of trying to explain himself, but at this point I think we can say that the British elite are kind of...distinctively perverted.
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Apr 16, 2015 06:12
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PerpetualSelf posted:What is the difference between a rich and a poor person? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Children_are_Sacred http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dutch-paedophile-club-to-fight-their-ban-at-the-european-court-of-human-rights-9622112.html http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/conspiracy-of-silence/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases It happens everywhere, its just the dirty linen is being hung out in the UK and Australia currently. More questions should be being asked of the countries where investigations were killed off in dodgy circumstances.
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Apr 16, 2015 06:15
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Not seeing a lot of complicity of heads of government in those examples (well except for the Church).
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Apr 16, 2015 06:18
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SedanChair posted:PerpetualSelf is doing a terrible job of trying to explain himself, but at this point I think we can say that the British elite are kind of...distinctively perverted. Nah similar cases exist in several countries and institutions. I think it's important to highlight this as no country's authorities are immune to committing or covering up crimes against children and it doesn't help if this is framed as a simply British problem. SedanChair posted:Not seeing a lot of complicity of heads of government in those examples (well except for the Church). I'll just quote this post instead of looking it all up again: Sharkie posted:Oh, there's absolutely nothing unique about these revelations. Perhaps the closest is the Casa Pia case in Portugal. Basically, the state-run Casa Pia orphanage was used to provide children to men including television personality Carlos Cruz and diplomat Jorge Ritto, who were both convicted and ended up being sentenced to 6-8 years for child sexual abuse, though Carlos Cruz is still free pending appeal. Secretary for Labor and Training Paulo Pedroso was accused but the charges were dropped. Of course, allegations had been made for decades before anything was done, and Ritto had been recalled from a diplomatic post after being caught with a child in a park in Germany, but charges were never resulted from that incident. Also, look into the Isle of Jersey. Sharkie fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Apr 16, 2015 |
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Apr 16, 2015 06:21
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SedanChair posted:Not seeing a lot of complicity of heads of government in those examples (well except for the Church). Real easy example of people in positions of power covering up sexual abuse to protect the existing power structure: Penn State
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Apr 16, 2015 06:21
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I wasn't at all contending that it's unusual for people in positions of power to conceal or ignore abuses. It's just that in this case it happened to go all the way up to the PM.
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Apr 16, 2015 06:29
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Byolante posted:Real easy example of people in positions of power covering up sexual abuse to protect the existing power structure: Penn State Didn't involve federal level backing though. Joe Paterno would have been given a life peerage for service in pedophilia in Britain.
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Apr 16, 2015 06:30
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SedanChair posted:I wasn't at all contending that it's unusual for people in positions of power to conceal or ignore abuses. It's just that in this case it happened to go all the way up to the PM. I just wanted to emphasize that it's not that the British elite are distinctly perverted in a way that other elites aren't, and that this type of criminality and perversion can occur among the elite of many countries and organizations.
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Apr 16, 2015 06:37
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Sharkie posted:I just wanted to emphasize that it's not that the British elite are distinctly perverted in a way that other elites aren't, and that this type of criminality and perversion can occur among the elite of many countries and organizations. I would have agreed with you until recently. I think they have some mask-wearing sex cult poo poo going on. If it turns out that they were doing human sacrifices I am not sure how I am going to manage to manifest additional surprise.
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Apr 16, 2015 06:41
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SedanChair posted:I would have agreed with you until recently. I think they have some mask-wearing sex cult poo poo going on. If it turns out that they were doing human sacrifices I am not sure how I am going to manage to manifest additional surprise. Ok, right, I get you. And you're not claiming the point I think it's important to argue against (i.e., "only British/Catholic/etc people do this, systemic child abuse can't happen here"). However, I still think that uh, the difference between the UK and other places is that in the UK it's come to light. But I'm sort of a glass-half-empty person. I hate thinking about this.
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Apr 16, 2015 06:47
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Byolante posted:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Children_are_Sacred Isn't Australia just a British Colony? I was always under the impression that child abuse in the Catholic Church was due to the prohibition placed on having sexual relationships and marrying for Priests. This stuff seems common. From Afghanistan, to England, to East Asia, and beyond. It seems to be it is probably been a natural part of human sexuality for many ages. Not that it makes it morally correct. Rape is also a natural part of human sexuality for many ages. But it makes it a lot easier to rationalize and understand. Often people who commit these crimes are made out to be terrible monsters and their action are portrayed as being extremely uncommon. I think this is proving further and further that this is far from the case and our response to this issue must recognize that if we desire to prevent it. It's something we have to think about when it comes to preventing rape that doesn't involve a minor as well.
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Apr 16, 2015 06:47
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PerpetualSelf posted:Isn't Australia just a British Colony? Not since 1890
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Apr 16, 2015 07:04
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PerpetualSelf posted:Isn't Australia just a British Colony?  What do you see recognizing child and non-child rape as natural as entailing?
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Apr 16, 2015 07:05
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PerpetualSelf posted:Isn't Australia just a British Colony? In the same way the USA or India is
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Apr 16, 2015 07:19
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OwlFancier posted:I'm not sure what the proper word for that system is, though clusterfuck is certainly descriptive. The preferred term is omnishambles.
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Apr 16, 2015 07:32
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PerpetualSelf posted:I was always under the impression that child abuse in the Catholic Church was due to the prohibition placed on having sexual relationships and marrying for Priests. the abuse in the Catholic Church was due to a culture of Protect the Church and the people involved being important pillars of the community who could not possibly be involved in that. People reported it, they were ignored or belittled or destroyed. The current big inquiry in Australia is not about who was abusing kids, it is about how the agencies and organisations failed to deal with it. Including some this century long after mandatory reporting was introduced. It really comes down to the powerful abusing the powerless. They think they can get away with it (and many do and did) because they are powerful, and their victims powerless.
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Apr 16, 2015 08:17
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SedanChair posted:PerpetualSelf is doing a terrible job of trying to explain himself, but at this point I think we can say that the British elite are kind of...distinctively perverted. Political power, wealth, and class are still very tied together in the UK. And class isn't just having lots of money either, class has history here, and a lot of that history is rather grounded in the idea of one law for the populace and one law for the elite, not just in practice, but also in actual law. Certainly in contrast to America I think perhaps that is a significant difference. There is an old, established, and surprisingly continuous culture associated with being part of the political and hereditary elite in the UK, which the wealthy can also become part of. And it's full of old and gross ideas. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Apr 16, 2015 |
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Apr 16, 2015 14:55
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KennyTheFish posted:It really comes down to the powerful abusing the powerless. They think they can get away with it (and many do and did) because they are powerful, and their victims powerless. This, and the human mind's ability to sexualize and associate pretty much anything with sex. It's 'Natural' in that it is exceedingly easy to gently caress up a human brain, but just because it happens doesn't mean we should ignore it. Just like with violent psychopaths, we have to first protect society from them, and if possible work to correct the aberration in their thinking that leads them to behave in such a detrimental (to society) fashion. the Rich and powerful more easily escaping this last bit, obviously
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Apr 16, 2015 15:01
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:when they are rich, yeah. Seems to come with the territory of unearned wealth Plenty of poor child molesters in the world man.
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Apr 16, 2015 15:02
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Lord Janner is getting away with buggering kids, but only because he's too far gone in dementia to stand trial.
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Apr 16, 2015 15:10
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OwlFancier posted:Political power, wealth, and class are still very tied together in the UK. And class isn't just having lots of money either, class has history here, and a lot of that history is rather grounded in the idea of one law for the populace and one law for the elite, not just in practice, but also in actual law. Hey you had you're chance to fix this in 1789, but you were all like, nah lets not cut off the heads of our monarch and wealthy elite, lets just discover two of Saturns moons and burn a lady counterfeit to death instead. Not even one royalty partially behead, I mean what the hell. But yeah, when it all come out about the abuses in the Catholic church, The UK, and Australia, I was hoping that you would start to see a lot more other countries start serious investigations, as its almost certainly happing in every country to some degree. Possibly some have and just haven't heard about it though I guess.
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Apr 16, 2015 15:28
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dr_rat posted:Hey you had you're chance to fix this in 1789, but you were all like, nah lets not cut off the heads of our monarch and wealthy elite, lets just discover two of Saturns moons and burn a lady counterfeit to death instead. Not even one royalty partially behead, I mean what the hell. That's because we already did that in 1651 and then the lame sequel in 1688. Didn't really stick either time. Obviously if the French are doing it we're not having any of it. Turns out that the only people with enough money to kill rich people are other rich people.
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Apr 16, 2015 15:40
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dr_rat posted:Hey you had you're chance to fix this in 1789, but you were all like, nah lets not cut off the heads of our monarch and wealthy elite, lets just discover two of Saturns moons and burn a lady counterfeit to death instead. Not even one royalty partially behead, I mean what the hell. I imagine Canada's history with native children is full of buried skeletons about this crap. Our government doesn't give a poo poo about aboriginals getting murdered now though, so doubt we're going to start digging for stuff any time soon
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Apr 16, 2015 15:55
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Lord Janner gets away with it scott free
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Apr 16, 2015 19:05
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While that must be awful for the victims if this is a properly sanctioned medical evaluation then I can totally appreciate not hauling someone with a degenerative and non-reversible mental illness who is currently in a position of requiring constant care anyway through a court case. It's a shame that the evidence cannot be evaluated and a verdict as to its truthfulness determined without him undergoing trial though.
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Apr 16, 2015 19:48
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The shame is that no one will be held accountable for both his actions and the failures to stop it, and the consequent cover ups
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Apr 16, 2015 20:29
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Can't they wait til he dies and do a report like they did with Saville? Not the same as real justice obviously but at least victims could be heard.
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Apr 16, 2015 20:39
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Can they at least agree that if he's mentally infirm to the point of not being able to be tried for sodomising children (allegedly) then he's probably not fit to be part of the legislature?
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Apr 16, 2015 20:55
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stickyfngrdboy posted:Can't they wait til he dies and do a report like they did with Saville? Not the same as real justice obviously but at least victims could be heard. The victims can file a civil case for all the good that would do.
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Apr 16, 2015 20:59
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nopantsjack posted:Can they at least agree that if he's mentally infirm to the point of not being able to be tried for sodomising children (allegedly) then he's probably not fit to be part of the legislature? If they sacked every lord who was mentally infirm then they'd be none left. Really though, it's very hard for them to be sacked, or incentivized into quitting, it's one of the aspects of lords reform that keeps on getting talked about. I think that if he had been found guilty he'd be out but since he won't he won't.
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Apr 16, 2015 21:10
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I could understand no prison time because somebody is a drooling old gently caress on deaths door, but not even a trial?
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Apr 16, 2015 23:06
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