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Jo3sh posted:Man, Kolsch yeast (WLP029) is a beast. I pitched the yeast Sunday morning, and this afternoon is is slowing down. I raised the temp a few degrees to help it finish out, and I might be able to cold crash it Thursday or so. I might just turn this around from grain to glass in 8 or 9 days. Completely stunning. Just pitched some 2565 into my Kolsch on Sunday afternoon. Was doing well yesterday, opened my ferm chamber today and saw that it had blown the lid off, so I guess things are going well for a single non-starter smack pack and 1.050 OG wort. Still at high krausen at the moment. Not sure if it's a similar strain to 029 but it seems to be similarly beastly.
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May 24, 2017 06:10
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:Well it's berry season and my wife wants a strawberry wheat again. Probably gonna do the same thing I did last time (which was like 3 years ago and many hundreds of dollars of equipment ago haha); That is my favorite grain bill for a wheat beer. Dead simple, dry and refreshing. I did a pineapple mango fruit beer which was super simple and very popular. It tastes like a tropical drink, not beer. 70% Belgian pils 30% flaked oats 10% red wheat malt Mash at 148 No hops. 1.048og. Rack it onto 64oz pineapple juice, 3-5lbs mango. Co-pitch Omega's lacto and saisonstein's monster (or any acid tolerant yeast). It should be done within a week or two max. It will hit stable pH within a few days and doesn't need any extended aging.
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May 24, 2017 12:20
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Der Penguingott posted:That is my favorite grain bill for a wheat beer. Dead simple, dry and refreshing. My kettle soured Berliner Weisse has a similar recipe, though instead of mango, I'm about to throw in 3oz of Amarillo for a dry hop. I also user Conan yeast for the peach notes.
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May 24, 2017 14:55
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Question for your guys doing kettle-soured stuff. I've got 4 recipes under my belt now, and I'm pretty happy with the results, but man do these beers smell terrible. It ages out, but it takes a while. Is this something I can mitigate, or just deal with it? I'm assuming this is a Butyric or Sulfuric compound. Right now, I'm gathering wort, chilling to ~100F, then putting the wort in a sealed corny keg with a carton of Goodbelly, purging the keg with CO2 and holding temp in the upper 80s for 3-7 days. Afterwards, I transfer to a kettle and boil for 15 min (whirfloc addition, small IBU hop addition), chill, pitch yeast. After primary is completed, I've had the pellicle come back - even with the boil - and I'm looking at ways to knock that back some more. I wanna get another Gose ready for an event in late August and I feel like I need to brew it now to give it time to settle out. I'm thinking about really extending that boil and trying to apply some filtering between the souring stage and primary.
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May 24, 2017 15:05
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robotsinmyhead posted:Question for your guys doing kettle-soured stuff. If you have the pellicle come back, you haven't killed all the lacto or you're using Brett or another pellicle creating thing. I know people suggest that kettle-souring is the best, but I don't see the upside of buying a couple extra pieces of gear and just co-pitching the lacto and yeast. So long as you're pitching enough, it takes about the same amount of time, and you're only heating things once. And once I package and condition, it's ready to drink right away. The pellicle comes back in the bottle, but that's because I can't avoid O2 in that process. (I probably could have packaged after a couple weeks, but laziness got in the way.) It sounds like you may want to acidify down to under 4.5pH when you pitch your goodbelly though. It'll help cut out some of those off flavors that you might be picking up from microbes that were hanging out with your grains.
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May 24, 2017 16:09
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Jhet posted:If you have the pellicle come back, you haven't killed all the lacto or you're using Brett or another pellicle creating thing. I know people suggest that kettle-souring is the best, but I don't see the upside of buying a couple extra pieces of gear and just co-pitching the lacto and yeast. So long as you're pitching enough, it takes about the same amount of time, and you're only heating things once. And once I package and condition, it's ready to drink right away. The pellicle comes back in the bottle, but that's because I can't avoid O2 in that process. (I probably could have packaged after a couple weeks, but laziness got in the way.) The upside to a kettle sour is being able to keg and not have to have a dedicated keg/line/tap. I only have a two tap setup and I can't justify one always being for sours. I also just don't trust the bacteria/brett in my kegerator not getting into other things. I still do aged sours and brett beers, but they are bottle only.
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May 24, 2017 17:53
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robotsinmyhead posted:Question for your guys doing kettle-soured stuff. Gose should really not need to age out. Two-three weeks max if your sacc is sluggish due to the acidity. Berliner is different if you use Brett. Buteryic and isovaleric acid (vomit and stinky feet) are usually due to O2 and contamination. Unless you really need bitterness in the beer (sour pale ale or something), just nix the hops in the boil and ferment with sacc and lacto at the same time, or sour after primary in the same vessel. Buy a cheap bucket if you're concerned about cross contamination. It's not necessary to apply heat beyond room temp for L.plantarum. It's possible to kettle sour or sour mash without off flavors but it's really hard. Look at all the vomity kettle sour commerical beers out there... There is also something lost by boiling the soured wort. You loose some of the volatile compounds that the lacto produces. Kettle sours frequently strike me as one sided and heavy handedly sour. If your cold side process is good there isn't much loss of stability by not hopping. My gose is still good over a year later and you can (and should) dry hop these beers.
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May 24, 2017 18:02
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rockcity posted:The upside to a kettle sour is being able to keg and not have to have a dedicated keg/line/tap. I only have a two tap setup and I can't justify one always being for sours. I also just don't trust the bacteria/brett in my kegerator not getting into other things. I still do aged sours and brett beers, but they are bottle only. Cross contamination in kegs is not really a big deal, keg is stainless and very little beer sits in the lines themselves. Plus you drink the beer that goes though them right away. Keg everything.
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May 24, 2017 18:04
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The pellicle coming back in the bottle is kind of a concern for me. It's pretty offputting to most people. I have yet to keg a kettle soured beer. The nice part about doing a separate souring step is splitting my brew day. Instead of a 4.5-6hr day, it's a 2 hour mash/transfer, wait a couple days, boil, chill, primary. I've never had a problem with TOO sour either. I actively tried to oversour my last beer, a blueberry pale ale, and it came out just "tart" despite following basically every "best practice" on MTF regarding kettle sours. The Gose I mentioned is one-dimensionally sour, but that was the idea anyway. I hit it with a bit of extra salt and did lime peel instead of corriander and it's likely my favorite beer I've made. It's like a margarita in a bottle. I called it MAGA (Mexican American Gose, Amigo)
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May 24, 2017 18:11
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rockcity posted:The upside to a kettle sour is being able to keg and not have to have a dedicated keg/line/tap. I only have a two tap setup and I can't justify one always being for sours. I also just don't trust the bacteria/brett in my kegerator not getting into other things. I still do aged sours and brett beers, but they are bottle only. You're already cleaning your lines, and your lines will end up having bacteria in them whether you're adding it or not. The reasons we use different plastics in fermenting is because they easily get scratched and the small relative size of bacteria allows them to hide from the sanitizer. Beer lines shouldn't be getting scratched on the inside, and you're still having to clean them like there's bacteria in there anyway. Brett is just another family of yeast, so it's not any more difficult to clean and sanitize than Saccharomyces.
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May 24, 2017 18:15
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Der Penguingott posted:Cross contamination in kegs is not really a big deal, keg is stainless and very little beer sits in the lines themselves. Plus you drink the beer that goes though them right away. Keg everything forever. Also kettle sour is silly. Just do a regular brew, chill to 100, pitch actual lacto strains, not goodbelly, and let it rip until it hits a pH of about 4.2. Then pitch yeast and watch it finish. Dry hop the gently caress out of it and keg it. Edit: unless you are me, in which case let the lacto go for 72 hours to a pH of 3.7 and watch it hit 3.1 when it's done. That poo poo is sour as gently caress. And delicious. Errant Gin Monks fucked around with this message at 19:02 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 19:00
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Jhet posted:You're already cleaning your lines, and your lines will end up having bacteria in them whether you're adding it or not. The reasons we use different plastics in fermenting is because they easily get scratched and the small relative size of bacteria allows them to hide from the sanitizer. Beer lines shouldn't be getting scratched on the inside, and you're still having to clean them like there's bacteria in there anyway. Brett is just another family of yeast, so it's not any more difficult to clean and sanitize than Saccharomyces. Fair enough. It's mostly a mental thing for me and I'll admit that. It just scares me even though I know it's possible. I'm less worried about brett and have been actually meaning to try an all brett IPA sometime soon. I'm debating what strain(s) to use.
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May 24, 2017 19:19
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rockcity posted:Fair enough. It's mostly a mental thing for me and I'll admit that. It just scares me even though I know it's possible. I'm less worried about brett and have been actually meaning to try an all brett IPA sometime soon. I'm debating what strain(s) to use. A lot of people are really afraid of it, but that's because we've all been trained to be really afraid of it. I was the same way, then I tried it and figured out I was being kind of ridiculous. It's like how everyone gets drilled about "clean and sanitize everything", but then you slowly realize that you've been being paranoid about it and then really figure out what needs what attention. If you want to work yourself up to it, try the Sacch Trois strain (it had been marketed as Brett, but isn't) as it gives a ton of fruity flavors and a little tartness. There are a ton of Brett isolates and it's daunting to both acquire them and isolate the ones that you really want. I'm with Errant Gin Monks about pitching pure lacto, and I just use Swanson's L. Plantarum because I don't want to spend the money on temp control for L. Brevis right now. 30 caps are $10 at amazon and that's enough for at least 3 batches without needing a starter (pitching rate of 100-125 billion is 10 capsules x 10 billion cells).
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May 24, 2017 20:21
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Jhet posted:A lot of people are really afraid of it, but that's because we've all been trained to be really afraid of it. I was the same way, then I tried it and figured out I was being kind of ridiculous. It's like how everyone gets drilled about "clean and sanitize everything", but then you slowly realize that you've been being paranoid about it and then really figure out what needs what attention. I've actually been meaning to try Sacch Trois because of that. I've used a couple Brett blends and bacteria blends, but I haven't played around with any isolated strains of either. The kettle sour I have going is from Goodbelly Oat shots. I was on the fence between capsules or Goodbelly and ended up settling on the latter. The wort prior to the post sour boil was tasting real nice. I'm about to pull a sample of it post fermentation in a little bit. I'm real anxious to see how it's tasting/smelling. We had some hot days in FL when I did the souring so the wort stayed right in the wheelhouse of where Goodbelly stuff supposedly wants to be. I did flush the kettle with CO2 when I pitched so hopefully that kept down on the butyric acid production.
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May 24, 2017 20:49
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rockcity posted:I've actually been meaning to try Sacch Trois because of that. I've used a couple Brett blends and bacteria blends, but I haven't played around with any isolated strains of either. The kettle sour I have going is from Goodbelly Oat shots. I was on the fence between capsules or Goodbelly and ended up settling on the latter. The wort prior to the post sour boil was tasting real nice. I'm about to pull a sample of it post fermentation in a little bit. I'm real anxious to see how it's tasting/smelling. We had some hot days in FL when I did the souring so the wort stayed right in the wheelhouse of where Goodbelly stuff supposedly wants to be. I did flush the kettle with CO2 when I pitched so hopefully that kept down on the butyric acid production. I have never had an issue with off flavors pitching L Brevis from WLP and I don't worry about temp control. I have had some fermentation off it, which is a sign of yeast being in there, but no flavor issues. I use belle saison in my sours because it's a work horse and will crush the sugars even in a really acidic environment.
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May 24, 2017 21:04
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Errant Gin Monks posted:I have never had an issue with off flavors pitching L Brevis from WLP and I don't worry about temp control. I have had some fermentation off it, which is a sign of yeast being in there, but no flavor issues. White Labs has some terrible QC. Their yeast is supposed to be below the gluten free threshhold as well, but independent testing has shown it's quite a bit above it. Additionally, another one of their Brett isolates has been shown to be something else entirely by home brewers. WLP648 is not Vrai (true), but is two strains of B. bruxellensis that are something else entirely. It's still good for making beer, but it's positively mind boggling that they don't have micro-biologists on staff capable of actually checking these things. This is in addition to their bad QC on their supposedly pure Lacto strains which turn out to really not be pure. Belle Saison/WY3711 is a wonderfully robust yeast strain and I'd suggest that everyone try it at least once.
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May 24, 2017 21:16
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Errant Gin Monks posted:Keg everything forever. What's your beef with Goodbelly?
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May 25, 2017 07:18
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I'm gonna try EGM's legit way. My success with Goodbelly has been moderate - it works, but I can't get anything truly sour. The reason I use it is because my LHBS isn't very local and the shipping prices on a lot of yeast varieties is expensive. edit: my acronyms. robotsinmyhead fucked around with this message at 14:54 on May 25, 2017 |
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May 25, 2017 11:35
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Glottis posted:What's your beef with Goodbelly? Can't speak for EGM but brewing-sourced and cultured lacto strains give much better performance in a malt environment, and are readily available. There are no really good reasons to take shortcuts IMO. E: robotsinmyhead posted:I'm gonna try EGM's legit way. My success with Goodbelly has been moderate - it works, but I can't get anything truly sour. The reason I use it is because my LBHS isn't very local and the shipping prices on a lot of yeast varieties is expensive. I guess lack of locality is a pretty good reason.
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May 25, 2017 14:12
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I think people generally aren't using enough Goodbelly. I use half a carton in 5 gallons at 90-100F and I've never had trouble getting the pH down.
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May 25, 2017 17:48
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Full carton, every time, tried 85ish range, tried 95ish, tried 105. I've never taken a proper pH reading, but I've never gotten anywhere near a commercial sour. Gose-level tartness like Otra Vez, at max. I purposefully let my last batch go extra long hoping for something eye-wateringly sour, and it just didn't take off. I accept the caveat that, lacking a pH reading, I simply may be misinterpreting the sourness level, but I think I have a pretty good palate for this sort of thing and have been really into sours for a while now.
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May 25, 2017 18:50
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robotsinmyhead posted:Full carton, every time, tried 85ish range, tried 95ish, tried 105. I've never taken a proper pH reading, but I've never gotten anywhere near a commercial sour. Gose-level tartness like Otra Vez, at max. I purposefully let my last batch go extra long hoping for something eye-wateringly sour, and it just didn't take off. I have gotten mouth puckering lemon sour from WLP L Brevis. One of the reasons to go with beer specific lacto strains.
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May 25, 2017 19:05
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robotsinmyhead posted:Full carton, every time, tried 85ish range, tried 95ish, tried 105. I've never taken a proper pH reading, but I've never gotten anywhere near a commercial sour. Gose-level tartness like Otra Vez, at max. I purposefully let my last batch go extra long hoping for something eye-wateringly sour, and it just didn't take off. What is your water chemistry? Can you measure titratable acidity? I am guessing it's a water thing. If you have a lot of minerals in your water you can have a very low pH beer with lower perceived sourness. Try brewing a 1g extract batch with RO water. Goodbelly works fine for souring. Brewing culture may be better but not a lot.
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May 25, 2017 21:04
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Der Penguingott posted:What is your water chemistry? Can you measure titratable acidity? pH is pH, but perception is everything. If L. plantarum can get to the low 3's (it does) and L. brevis, L. delbrueckii, L. buchneri can get to low 3's (they do too, except for L. delbruickii the one we find in lambics), it really doesn't matter which one you're using. The only way to really know is by measuring your pH, knowing what's in your water, and keeping track of what you like and what you want out of it. Each of them do something different at different temperatures. So choose your strain, but all these strains are regularly used for and found in beer so that's kind of like arguing over which baseball team is the best. Everyone has an answer, but they're all right so long as they're still baseball teams. ---- My dad has a bunch of applewood, and I'm thinking I really need to smoke some malts with it. Maybe toss it into an export stout and a strong ale.
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May 25, 2017 21:35
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 Decided to take a little break from studying and pop open a homebrew. Came out pretty well in my opinion. I wouldn't replicate the heated part of the fermentation, but I like it. Tastes like a weird IPA because I also put a citra in the boil instead of just dry hopping it. Also the mosaic is a little overpowering but may work with some unmalted rye. Not sure what to do for the next time, butt I'll think of something.
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May 26, 2017 01:01
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Der Penguingott posted:What is your water chemistry? Can you measure titratable acidity? Prepped water (store bought "RO") with minimal additions.
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May 26, 2017 01:17
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 Call these hops Lincoln Hawk, cause they're OVER THE TOP  I don't think we've had growth like this until July in the first 3 years.
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May 26, 2017 01:23
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robotsinmyhead posted:
The Fuggles I just planted a few weeks ago are already over a foot tall. It's pretty absurd. That's a pretty awesome hop trellis too. I also discovered that I have a gooseberry bush in my yard that I'll be using to do something probably. Can't let the berries go to waste. I've not seen the yard fully grown as we moved into the house in October last year. There is random stuff all over the place and some of it's awesome, and some is strange. There are about 8 very healthy raspberry plants as well that will be used too. For now I'm just waiting for the Michigan sour cherries to show up at the farmers' market.
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May 26, 2017 01:39
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We did 16ft 4x4s posted 3-4ft deep, so we've got 12+' of height. It's not great, but it's a nice little plot. I'm amazed they've gone over the top already this year. They're way ahead of schedule and I'll have to do some reading as to how to maximize their production now. We've focused so much on just getting the crowns fat the past 3 years.
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May 26, 2017 02:01
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I just picked up rhizomes of cascade, super alpha, hersbrucker and mt hood and I have three old kegs I plan on using for planters with trellises to be made dis-assemblable so I can take them if I have to move house. I can still build to approx. 2 metres tall with the right level of anchoring in my 50L keg-pot This is my first season doing hops, anything I should know?
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May 26, 2017 04:43
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McSpergin posted:I just picked up rhizomes of cascade, super alpha, hersbrucker and mt hood and I have three old kegs I plan on using for planters with trellises to be made dis-assemblable so I can take them if I have to move house. I can still build to approx. 2 metres tall with the right level of anchoring in my 50L keg-pot Don't expect a harvest in the first year. Concentrate on making that root crown fat for year 2+. I forget the proper method for that, but I think you just let it run wild instead of cutting back the bines.
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May 26, 2017 11:22
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Anything you get off the plant in the first year is just a bonus. Too late now, but in the future buy a crown from Great Lakes Hops, (instead of rhizomes) since they already have an established root system. They oftentimes send you a freebie plant (or two) when you buy from them. I got a fuggles when I did. Most people get weird poo poo.
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May 26, 2017 11:44
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Lots of places sell "field grade" rhizomes which are considerably larger than usual. If you can get a crown, pay the extra and get it - it's like skipping ahead a whole year.
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May 26, 2017 12:21
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Double post time: My son wants me to brew him up a cider. I've never done one, but I have a friend with like 50+ gallons of frozen pressed juice (the deal is he'll give me whatever I want if I ferment 50% of it and give it back to him). My son, being an unsophisticated drinker, wants a sweeter cider and I'm realizing that I don't think I can do that. From my short research, most homemade ciders seem to end up dry to very dry, and it's difficult to backsweeten them AND bottle condition them at the same time. It seems like my options involve cheating - use xylitol or stevia and add flavorings if he's into that sort of thing.
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May 26, 2017 12:27
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robotsinmyhead posted:Double post time: Yea, bottle conditioning with the goal of leaving residual sweetness is difficult. I'm guessing you are seeing sources discussing timing a pasteurization process before the bottle explodes. Sounds like it's time to get a Keg setup. Brew a cider and after the yeast have fully fermented the sugars drop some Camden tabs in there to kill all of the yeast. Add additional sugar to sweeten then force carb in keg. Transfer to bottles if you want.
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May 26, 2017 14:10
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extravadanza posted:Yea, bottle conditioning with the goal of leaving residual sweetness is difficult. I'm guessing you are seeing sources discussing timing a pasteurization process before the bottle explodes. I have a keg setup, but this cider would specifically be for giving out to other people, so I need to bottle it. I've never had much luck transferring from kegs to bottles (from tap) and I don't own a counterpressure filler. I'm not opposed to buying one, but my friend has one and says it's a gigantic pain in the rear end. I know you can do some advanced stuff like timed pasteurization, but this isn't something I wanna put a lot of time and money into, as I'll likely only do this once or twice.
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May 26, 2017 14:46
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robotsinmyhead posted:I have a keg setup, but this cider would specifically be for giving out to other people, so I need to bottle it. I've never had much luck transferring from kegs to bottles (from tap) and I don't own a counterpressure filler. I'm not opposed to buying one, but my friend has one and says it's a gigantic pain in the rear end. Get yourself a Blichmann Beergun. Well worth the price of admission ($100), especially since the new one has a cool molded toolcase.
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May 26, 2017 14:52
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robotsinmyhead posted:I have a keg setup, but this cider would specifically be for giving out to other people, so I need to bottle it. I've never had much luck transferring from kegs to bottles (from tap) and I don't own a counterpressure filler. I'm not opposed to buying one, but my friend has one and says it's a gigantic pain in the rear end. You can do a pretty serviceable job with a plastic racking cane with a stopper on it to seal the bottle pressure. I have a perlick adapter with a tub on it that I took a bottle filler and cut off the spring and put a stopper on. Turn down your keg pressure to about 2-3psi, put in the tube/stopper, open the tap and then squeeze the stopper to bleed the pressure and let the bottle fill. I haven't had any real issues doing it this way. Carbonation stays pretty good and I haven't picked up any noticeable oxidization.
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May 26, 2017 15:06
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A friend of mine bought these and is giving me one: He hasn't dropped it off yet but he told me it's a 10 gallon that was used to age rye whisky and maple syrup (what order I don't know, maple syrup I think second) I'm excited and full of questions: 1) Is using one still going to be worthwhile at this stage in the barrels life? Like is whisky to syrup it's end of life or is there some use out of them? 2) If so, how should I use it? Ferment in it? How much should ferment in it? It's "10 gallon" but surely you don't ferment ten gallons in it right? Or can you? Should I treat it as my primary fermentation vessel or what? I've only done your typical 5 gallon batches fermented in a glass carboy, move to secondary, dry hop, move to keg. 3) How do I sanitize it? Will covering the inside with starsan as best I can be good enough? 4) How many times can/should I use it again? 5) What style would be best? I'm up to brew whatever would be best complimented by fermenting in this barrel. Just so you don't think I'm being lazy and asking you guys to do all thinking, here's what I think I should do, again assuming I should use this at all. Adjust where I'm wrong or could do better, please and thank you: Brew a 5 gallon batch of a Belgian Triple or an Irish Red Ale and basically just use the barrel in place of the glass carboy. I have no idea what else to do, haha.
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May 26, 2017 15:43
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SCA Enthusiast posted:Get yourself a Blichmann Beergun. Well worth the price of admission ($100), especially since the new one has a cool molded toolcase. I basically have the summer off with my wife and the new baby and been thinking about bottling a bunch of big beers for future winters and special occasions. The times I've used my cobra tap+vinyl tube to fill bottles have been successful but messy affairs. I have $70 in Amazon credit. I'm highly considering the beer gun. Anything I should know? What about Gen 1 vs. Gen 2 beergun?
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May 26, 2017 15:53
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