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Epicurius posted:Tunics. Think of a tunic as sort of a long, open shirt that goes down to the knees or ankles. You generally wore them belted at the waist. So pyjamas, basically.
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Mar 5, 2020 12:14
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Jack2142 posted:One thing to note is by the time of Justinian lots of Romans were dressing up like Huns & Khazars at least for military campaigns. Romans didn’t wear togas on campaign in the late republic and after, though that apparently had not always been true. Conventional wear for soldiers under the late republic and high empire was a tunic and sagum (cloak).
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Mar 5, 2020 12:19
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I’m shocked that there aren’t any of the sort of weirdos who wear utilikilts and poo poo like that who have adopted the tunic
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Mar 5, 2020 14:25
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I’m shocked that there aren’t any of the sort of weirdos who wear utilikilts and poo poo like that who have adopted the tunic oh I'm sure if you showed them a cargo tunic they'd drop their cargo skirts in a heartbeat
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Mar 5, 2020 14:41
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This is some Late Roman artwork showing a tunic: Even when it was popular, wearing a toga everywhere would be like wearing full black tie everywhere. It's a giant piece of cloth that has to be folded and draped over the body in a specific manner to be worn, with one of your arms helping hold it up. It was still regarded as the national costume of Rome, but it was so impractical and annoying to put on and walk around in that people only kept wearing it because they were legally obligated to for certain official functions.
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Mar 5, 2020 15:25
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Didn’t only patricians wear togas
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Mar 5, 2020 15:28
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euphronius posted:Didn’t only patricians wear togas No, hence Cato's famous black toga of mourning. Any citizen could wear them, but in practice, they were only worn on ceremonial or official occasions by people who had reason to do so.
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Mar 5, 2020 15:39
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euphronius posted:Didn’t only patricians wear togas No, plebeian aristocrats and knights would have worn them too. In theory every male citizen wore one, in practice it was probably limited to the elite, but never the patriciate. Cato wore an old-fashioned toga without tunic precisely to make the point that he was plebeian and Roman as hell.
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Mar 5, 2020 15:44
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euphronius posted:Didn’t only patricians wear togas In practice the lower classes didn't wear them often, but they were formalwear for all Romans. Senatorial class were legally required to wear them in public at various times. Thinking of them like a tuxedo in a modern western country isn't too far off. Culturally they're more like a suit, but people wear suits way more often than Romans were wearing togas. Tunics were normal clothing, but these were the replacements for togas in formal contexts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallium_(Roman_cloak) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paenula Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Mar 5, 2020 |
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Mar 5, 2020 17:28
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I’m shocked that there aren’t any of the sort of weirdos who wear utilikilts and poo poo like that who have adopted the tunic Kilts were adopted because it was too impractical to wear the full toga-like plaid. Although I wonder if long tunics with velcro loin-girding could happen.
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Mar 5, 2020 17:46
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What was worn under the toga, tunic or cloak?
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Mar 5, 2020 20:56
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Weka posted:What was worn under the toga, tunic or cloak?  Suetonius posted:When [Caesar] saw that he was beset on every side by drawn daggers, he muffled his head in his robe, and at the same time drew down its lap to his feet with his left hand, in order to fall more decently, with the lower part of his body also covered. Zopotantor fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Mar 5, 2020 |
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Mar 5, 2020 23:12
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The multiple accounts of people putting themselves into a dignified position to die in while under pressure (literally their life is on the line) makes wonder if upper class Romans would like, practice dying with grace
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Mar 5, 2020 23:28
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If you're going to die might as well die well.
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Mar 6, 2020 01:01
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cheetah7071 posted:The multiple accounts of people putting themselves into a dignified position to die in while under pressure (literally their life is on the line) makes wonder if upper class Romans would like, practice dying with grace Whether "dying stylishly and graciously after saying some wicked last words" actually happened often or was just the way people expected the best Romans to die, so it ended up being how biographers and historians back then depicted their deaths, it's still really interesting. Makes you think about how much of their lives was supposed to be a constant flawless and self-conscious performance.
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Mar 6, 2020 03:04
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Having meaningful last words was a Homeric/heroic thing (which is to say it was very deeply ingrained). Cool guys are supposed to have something to say as they’re going.
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Mar 6, 2020 12:42
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skasion posted:Having meaningful last words was a Homeric/heroic thing (which is to say it was very deeply ingrained). Cool guys are supposed to have something to say as they’re going. Gods give me the strength to be able to tell my killer I hosed his mom, sister and dad before I pass this mortal coil.
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Mar 6, 2020 13:01
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Global Disorder posted:Whether "dying stylishly and graciously after saying some wicked last words" actually happened often or was just the way people expected the best Romans to die, so it ended up being how biographers and historians back then depicted their deaths, it's still really interesting. Makes you think about how much of their lives was supposed to be a constant flawless and self-conscious performance.
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Mar 6, 2020 14:21
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skasion posted:Having meaningful last words was a Homeric/heroic thing (which is to say it was very deeply ingrained). Cool guys are supposed to have something to say as they’re going. I mean, it's hard to beat "Either this wallpaper goes or I do" as parting shots? Probably apocryphal but  .
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Mar 6, 2020 14:50
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“Eugghhh... tell Cato... his sister... was a good lay, Brute”
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Mar 6, 2020 16:45
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"Et tu Brute" is actually cut off from "Et tu Brute, ego mater tua fututam."?
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Mar 6, 2020 17:06
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All famous last words end with a fart.
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Mar 6, 2020 17:26
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cheetah7071 posted:The multiple accounts of people putting themselves into a dignified position to die in while under pressure (literally their life is on the line) makes wonder if upper class Romans would like, practice dying with grace Considering that only twenty of seventy emperors died of natural causes, practicing how you might die wasn't that dumb.
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Mar 6, 2020 21:09
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When I was a kid obsessed with ancient Egypt and with various mummies, bog people, and so on in general I'd play mummy and imagine various cool positions and scenarios for archaeologists to find my body in.
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Mar 6, 2020 22:59
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Alhazred posted:Considering that only twenty of seventy emperors died of natural causes, practicing how you might die wasn't that dumb. The ratio was even worse when it was happening to 'ol Julius, too! 
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Mar 6, 2020 23:04
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In the Roman game of thrones, you win then you die.
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Mar 7, 2020 01:54
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Global Disorder posted:In the Roman game of thrones, you win then you die.
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Mar 7, 2020 03:26
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Rockopolis posted:"Et tu Brute" is actually cut off from "Et tu Brute, ego mater tua fututam."? Obviously you meant this as a joke, but some people did interpret "kai su teknon" as Caesar literally claiming to be Brutus's father. Historians today generally agree that this interpretation is very implausible, though
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Mar 7, 2020 04:58
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I kinda feel like the lack of things to do in the ancient world, it wouldn't be surprising if some of them wound up obsessing over ways they could die in their spare time. I remember some botched their own suicides though, so clearly not everybody rehearsed. HEY GUNS posted:I assume all these dudes died. Otherwise they would still be around. Ancient History: I assume all these dudes died. Otherwise they would still be around.
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Mar 7, 2020 06:26
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:When I was a kid obsessed with ancient Egypt and with various mummies, bog people, and so on in general I'd play mummy and imagine various cool positions and scenarios for archaeologists to find my body in. I want to be buried with a bunch of anachronistic and weird stuff purely to confuse future archeologists. A broadsword, seven hundred tiny ceramic Buddhas, fuzzy handcuffs, a clay tablet of the epic of Gilgamesh written in Gaelic, a stuffed puffin (erotic) , and a pegleg. Just a smorgasbord of random things.
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Mar 7, 2020 17:24
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FreudianSlippers posted:I want to be buried with a bunch of anachronistic and weird stuff purely to confuse future archeologists. Your grave gets looted and the only thing that remains is the stuffed erotic puffin. You are now forever known in the literature as the Puffin Fucker Burial.
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Mar 7, 2020 19:57
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FreudianSlippers posted:I want to be buried with a bunch of anachronistic and weird stuff purely to confuse future archeologists. Cyber archaeologist shrugs, files this as "ritual"
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Mar 7, 2020 20:31
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FreudianSlippers posted:I want to be buried with a bunch of anachronistic and weird stuff purely to confuse future archeologists. "His grave was filled with offerings for every conceivable god. Truly, he must have committed unspeakable perversions to require such absolution as he moved into the afterlife."
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Mar 7, 2020 23:25
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Communist Walrus posted:"His grave was filled with offerings for every conceivable god. Truly, he must have committed unspeakable perversions to require such absolution as he moved into the afterlife." It's not like it was uncommon to give offerings to different gods. When Rollo died he gave 100 pounds of silver to the church and 100 prisoners of war to Odin, just to be sure. Reminds me of a Terry Pratchett quote: The Quirmian philosopher Ventre put forward the suggestion that "Possibly the gods exist, and possibly they do not. So why not believe in them in any case? If it's all true you'll go to a lovely place when you die, and if it isn't then you've lost nothing, right?" When he died he woke up in a circle of gods holding nasty-looking sticks and one of them said "We're going to show you what we think of Mr Clever Dick in these parts..." Alhazred fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Mar 8, 2020 |
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Mar 8, 2020 11:56
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The idea of religious exclusivity in that sense is -- well I can't say it's rare because Islam and Christianity have done well for themselves, but it certainly hasn't been the general consensus, let's put it that way.
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Mar 8, 2020 12:14
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Nessus posted:The idea of religious exclusivity in that sense is -- well I can't say it's rare because Islam and Christianity have done well for themselves, but it certainly hasn't been the general consensus, let's put it that way. Judaism was considered pretty weird in the ancient world for that reason. Why don't you just get with the programme and worship the emperor as a god, nobody else has a problem with it!
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Mar 8, 2020 12:52
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One Discworld book has a bit about Dwarves often being buried with an axe because although they don't believe in demons they're not sure the demons know this.
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Mar 8, 2020 14:08
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Alhazred posted:It's not like it was uncommon to give offerings to different gods. When Rollo died he gave 100 pounds of silver to the church and 100 prisoners of war to Odin, just to be sure. I mean that was a funny little passage, but it's basically Pascal's Wager, right?
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Mar 8, 2020 18:05
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Elyv posted:I mean that was a funny little passage, but it's basically Pascal's Wager, right? It's making a joke about Pascal's wager.
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Mar 8, 2020 19:28
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feedmegin posted:Judaism was considered pretty weird in the ancient world for that reason. Why don't you just get with the programme and worship the emperor as a god, nobody else has a problem with it! Stoicism contributed too. The idea of the Logos, a consequence is that there is one natural law that everybody is under. That allows for the idea of one world state that everybody might be under. That’s tied up with monotheism and both Judaism and Christianity.
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Mar 8, 2020 22:21
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