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Bottom Liner posted:I dont think that's the case. The outside areas can hold well over the set park capacity even in MK. It would not be pleasant but I don't think it would be in violation of anything. I can see it being a lot tighter in California though (and they probably have stricter regulations to boot). No that is the case. The capacity of the parks includes assuming people are waiting in lines inside ride buildings.
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May 14, 2024 20:20
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Zero One posted:No that is the case. The capacity of the parks includes assuming people are waiting in lines inside ride buildings. I'm actually not sure if it's this or just that they have the option to enter the lines. Another reason it just doesn't work for every ride is that, in order to ensure they aren't sending empty ride vehicles waiting for people to return for their reserved times, they have to pad the queue with some wait time anyway. This is fine for regulating the demand for brand new rides, but not necessary for older rides that don't have that demand. Those rides might end up with lots of empty seats being sent. The reason it works at Volcano Bay is because water slides can only send one person at a time. The actual loving answer is just to get rid of any form of virtual queuing and Fastpass, have only one line, and dedicate all of the ride's capacity to it. We saw a taste of this during Covid, but not the full thing since the rides were not loading at full capacity, and even then it was so much more tolerable. There's also some science involved in how long you wait vs. your enjoyment of the ride. As in, people who wait too long or too short for a ride end up enjoying it less than people who wait a little bit for it. And finally, when you're with a good group and in a line that is continually moving, it's a good social experience and part of the overall fun.
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May 14, 2024 20:34
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Zero One posted:No that is the case. The capacity of the parks includes assuming people are waiting in lines inside ride buildings. Yes, but that capacity is set by the parks for operational stability and guest satisfaction limits, not a fire code mandate. The outside areas can hold a lot more than the Disney set park capacity. Only buildings have a fire code capacity AFAIK. If the state did set some park maximum, Disney's would be a lot stricter anyways because of quality issues. Bottom Liner fucked around with this message at 21:11 on May 14, 2024 |
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May 14, 2024 21:08
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Bottom Liner posted:this is blowing up, hope they see some real backlash for this bullshit There's been a bunch of back and forth on this now. I'm kind of inclined to believe the owner just because the anonymous employee is hitting so many pressure points that seem designed to deliberately stir up a particularly leftist flavor of outrage. "Everyone is terrified, but especially minorities! Microaggressions! All the gays were terminated (how did they know?) Be sure to blast this to the local press as loudly as possible!" Might as well claim that a copy of The Affluent Society was burned in the back alley as well.
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May 15, 2024 00:59
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There would probably be at least one employee countering if it there wasn’t a lot of truth to it.
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May 15, 2024 01:03
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Aphrodite posted:There would probably be at least one employee countering if it there wasn’t a lot of truth to it. Most employees would like to get paid more. Since I don't live or work in Florida I possibly just am not aware of how much of a MAGA monster people can be, and I tend to believe that money-hoarders just want to roll around in cash and aren't too strict about how they get it. But maybe I'm wrong and these people actually choose which employees to let go of based on who they gently caress and need to get a date in court.  I just get the feeling that there's something I as an out-of-state tourist don't get there, such as the claims about salary possibly being based upon take-home pay and not including withholdings. Calling counter service a tipped position is still dogshit.
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May 15, 2024 01:16
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I’ve seen former employees on Twittertalk about how unsafe a workplace it is, apparently there would regularly be emergency responders there for customers and employees who had heat stroke Small business owners can be so much worse than corporations because generally corporations are able to minimize irrational behavior by their sheer size, but businesses with one or two people who own it, there’s no shielding employees from dipshit ownership or someone who gets a little money and goes off the deep end
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May 15, 2024 01:22
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Craptacular! posted:There's been a bunch of back and forth on this now. this aint it chief I'm not attacking you or calling you out, but i would ask you to consider why your instinct is to turn to all of that instead of just believing that maybe it really is a lovely workplace that got bad enough for them to speak out. The pay rate alone is enough for the outrage to be entirely justified, and if they're paying loving $9 an hour to people that work at Disney Springs in 2024 then the rest is very, very easy to believe is true as well. Bottom Liner fucked around with this message at 01:35 on May 15, 2024 |
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May 15, 2024 01:33
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Craptacular! posted:There's been a bunch of back and forth on this now. Almost two years ago I walked into Gideons, saw a dude in a suit, heard him mutter "great, another (f-slur)" and then I turned around and left. And that's my Gideons story. Like, on one hand, I'm fluffy bunnies and sometimes just existing is enough to enrage people. On the other, I walked in a door with a tank top with a rainbow on it. In October. ETA: no, apparently they haven't been open that long. I thought it was 2019, it was 2022 December. I just was with the same group of folks.
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May 15, 2024 01:55
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This stuff is kind of surprising, because Gideon’s is the gayest place in that shopping mall.
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May 15, 2024 02:03
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:Almost two years ago I walked into Gideons, saw a dude in a suit, heard him mutter "great, another (f-slur)" and then I turned around and left. And that's my Gideons story.  Yeah, maybe Disney needs to reconsider having some standards on who they lease space to.
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May 15, 2024 02:04
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Craptacular! posted:
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May 15, 2024 02:14
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Bottom Liner posted:Yes, but that capacity is set by the parks for operational stability and guest satisfaction limits, not a fire code mandate. The outside areas can hold a lot more than the Disney set park capacity. Only buildings have a fire code capacity AFAIK. If the state did set some park maximum, Disney's would be a lot stricter anyways because of quality issues. Craptacular! posted:There's been a bunch of back and forth on this now.
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May 15, 2024 02:21
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Arquinsiel posted:I dunno if the USA has the same rules but on this side of the world there are fire code rules for evacuating to a safe distance from a burning building and how quickly an entire area can be evacuated to ensure that fire services can access it etc. They said they pay twice that at their "flagship location". Their flagship location is East End Market. They are being actively deceptive in their response by not talking about Disney Springs employee complaints.
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May 15, 2024 02:55
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And if true, that's somehow even worse.
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May 15, 2024 02:55
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That does indeed put an interesting spin on it for anyone who forgets the other location exists.
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May 15, 2024 03:11
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An employee came forward to counter some of the claims while stating others are certainly valid, but it seems based on that employees statement the whole "we are a collective of employees" isn't quite true, and the anonymous account is likely just one very upset employee. But I also know from some first hand accounts that the owner is a total douche regardless, so it's a game of back and forth. That said, it caught the attention of the Local 362 Parks Union and now they are working to unionize. Wonder if the owner is gonna go Starbucks on them and try to shutter or otherwise find ways to union bust.
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May 15, 2024 08:06
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The extremely online writing style does suggest a small number, because Jesus Christ if someone was trying to represent me like that I would demand to write it myself. But also I feel like that type of person is probably attracted to working at Gideon’s.
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May 15, 2024 14:39
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Bottom Liner posted:this aint it chief I'll confess I imagine that I'm probably one of the further right goons politically as a soft 'shitlib' or whatever, but I'm also gay and can maintain a strong skepticism and sense of pandering when someone is trying to bring culture war stuff into a space where it feels like it doesn't belong. Like does the Jesusy poo poo at Chick-Fil-A suck IMO? Yeah. But if someone started complaining about the pay there and started bringing up the company's political donations I'd feel it's sort of losing the plot and unnecessary because, honestly, capitalism transcends subjective matters like cultural issues. Based on "hey give me time to make a response, if I was really like they're portraying me I'd probably be out of business by now" in the owner's post sounded more reasonable than "and they hate autists too" stuff coming from the employee. As someone said, it feels, uh, very online, very culture war, in a way to drive reaction from people with a terminally online doomscroller activist bent. But it also sounds like these people might be violating federal law with the amount of receipts stacking up, if even a discussion of goons can bring up stories. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 20:43 on May 15, 2024 |
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May 15, 2024 20:37
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Young people that are part of internet culture are going to use the ways they are accustomed to seeing when it comes time to spread their own message. I don’t think that’s a big red flag that their claims aren’t valid or reason to give the owners benefit of the doubt when we have receipts of the main claim of paying people poverty wages. Cultural issues aren’t subjective when we’re talking about wages and social mobility of minorities and groups that are often the most held down by capitalism, but that’s getting way beyond the scope of this thread. Bottom Liner fucked around with this message at 21:35 on May 15, 2024 |
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May 15, 2024 21:33
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Craptacular! posted:"if I was really like they're portraying me I'd probably be out of business by now" This has big “I’m too rich/famous to risk it by being a child molester” energy. Like, that is not a denial. At all.
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May 15, 2024 21:38
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Reading through the full document and a lot of it is pretty ridiculous or comes off as criticisms one might have if they've never worked anywhere before. But some of it is legit. - Scheduling a meeting that could have been an email? Gasp! That is unheard of! - How dare you make us shake the iced coffee drinks when we were hired to STIR them! - Inconsistent menu list and order process - okay sure, but like, this is the type of poo poo you're going to deal with in any low level job. Or high level job. Or any job. - A high level employee used the terms "gypsies" and "hoodlums". I understand that these are not politically correct terms or whatever, but they're kind of at that level where many people do not know that they are slurs. - The manager "Drew" doesn't do anything - lol welcome to 75% of the leadership at Disney and theme parks and everything everywhere. - Hours scheduled - what they're complaining about is exactly how all of WDW, Universal, SeaWorld, etc. operate. (I realize Gideons is not part of Disney but they're a partner or whatever) - Pay-related stuff - yeah, this is legit and seems like they're skirting the law to pay them less than Florida minimum wage. - Safety related stuff - Some of it is legit enough, some of it is laughable. "How dare you make us wear pants!" - Again, a HUGE percentage of Disney and Universal employees also have to wear pants and be outside sometimes. It reads very much like they have a few legitimate points to raise but padded the hell out of it with typical work grievances that muddies the message and makes the whole thing look kind of silly.
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May 15, 2024 22:01
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:- How dare you make us shake the iced coffee drinks when we were hired to STIR them! SweetMercifulCrap! posted:- A high level employee used the terms "gypsies" and "hoodlums". I understand that these are not politically correct terms or whatever, but they're kind of at that level where many people do not know that they are slurs.
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May 16, 2024 01:50
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Arquinsiel posted:"Gypsies" at least has been well known as a slur for decades.
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May 16, 2024 02:00
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Jose Valasquez posted:I think you probably overestimate how many people know that
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May 16, 2024 02:36
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Arquinsiel posted:I mean, maybe, but if I knew it when I was in pre-school in the 80s I feel like it should have reached the USA by now. Aren’t you from the UK or France? Either way, there are a helluva lot more Romani to encounter and learn about that particular phrase and its insensitivity. Maybe I’m projecting, but in the US most people have stopped at the level of “don’t say you got ‘gypped’ because that’s a clear reference to a negative stereotype of that group”.
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May 16, 2024 03:33
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https://twitter.com/krismeetsworld/status/1790446056716505388 Someone said in the replies that another person (somewhere? Instagram? No idea, I don't follow this that closely) posted an unredacted paystub that came to about $20/hour. I'm done posting about an overpriced cookie store that I've never been to. Everyone deserves a safe workplace but if there's more than one person behind the boycott effort they should not let the "toxic empire of lies" person write the next one so it doesn't inspire dramatic "Dear Richard" readings. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 09:41 on May 16, 2024 |
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May 16, 2024 09:36
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Jose Valasquez posted:I think you probably overestimate how many people know that that is not a defense Grundulum posted:This has big “I’m too rich/famous to risk it by being a child molester” energy. Like, that is not a denial. At all. literally the line Drake tried to use in his defensive telling-on-himself track lmao Craptacular! posted:Someone said in the replies that another person (somewhere? Instagram? No idea, I don't follow this that closely) posted an unredacted paystub that came to about $20/hour. that tracks with the pay at the other store so I'd be curious if that's from the same store or not and why. Disney should really require all partners/3rd party vendors to meet their min wage standards if they're on property but they'd never do that (and theirs are only what they are because of the unions). Companies have no problem charging more for the products there though~! IIRC, the cookies are more expensive at Springs than their other store, which makes the pay discrepancy even worse. Bottom Liner fucked around with this message at 10:18 on May 16, 2024 |
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May 16, 2024 10:10
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So if they're actually averaging around 18-20 an hour, then they're making on par with what an average Disney CM makes, and I can assure you, a large percentage of CMs are dealing with much, much more than what they are at a cookie store for the same pay rate. It makes the whole document of demands sound even more like a terminally online person with little to no prior work experience that is blindsided that working there wasn't all fun and games. You hear a lot of similar complaints from a good portion of college program participants. "They're working us like slaves!", etc. Well, they're giving you a lot of hours, but they're not skirting labor laws or anything, it's just that jobs at Disney are typically demanding and they're coming from either no work experience or something super chill.
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May 16, 2024 18:54
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:So if they're actually averaging around 18-20 an hour, then they're making on par with what an average Disney CM makes, and I can assure you, a large percentage of CMs are dealing with much, much more than what they are at a cookie store for the same pay rate. are you just ignoring the part where that paystub may be from the other location and doesnt invalidate that people there are being paid <10 an hour? CMs also have a lot more oversight, regulations, and other practices company wide on top of many spaces having union stewards looking out for things. and lol the college program is often criticized as exploitative and those workers are underpaid and overworked while receiving none of the benefits that full cast members do. There's a reason Disney by contract can't add more CP positions without adding more union jobs at the same time. But yes yes, lazy kids and all that. None of this is about work ethic. God drat our workforce is the most successfully propagandized population in the modern world. Bottom Liner fucked around with this message at 19:59 on May 16, 2024 |
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May 16, 2024 19:54
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On that first point, cann1balkid does say they work at the Springs location. They should get a raise though, because Orlando is loving expensive.
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May 16, 2024 20:01
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Aphrodite posted:On that first point, cann1balkid does say they work at the Springs location. Which again, raises more questions as to why other employees there are paid <10. If even one person is working at Disney Springs and getting paid $9 an hour that shop and owner deserve to be loving roasted.
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May 16, 2024 20:04
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That's the hourly rate for all of them, but tips make up about 60% of their weekly take home apparently. That's bad because tips can be volatile and pushes the burden of paying people fairly onto the consumer, but unfortunately completely normal for the US.
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May 16, 2024 20:08
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Bottom Liner posted:are you just ignoring the part where that paystub may be from the other location and doesnt invalidate that people there are being paid <10 an hour? Bottom Liner posted:and lol the college program is often criticized as exploitative and those workers are underpaid and overworked while receiving none of the benefits that full cast members do. There's a reason Disney by contract can't add more CP positions without adding more union jobs at the same time. I'm not saying "these lazy gen-z'ers don't want work", I am saying that they come to Disney to work thinking it'll be fun and easy and a 24/7 party and are often blindsided when most of the positions are actually very demanding. I know the program is exploitative, but it is mutually beneficial to a degree. Disney gets cheaper labor (they are still paid above Florida minimum wage), a lot of kids just out of high school get a nice thing to add to their resume, gaining life experience, making new friends, etc.
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May 16, 2024 20:32
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I think if you've gotten to a point in your life where your instinct is, for any reason, to defend the bosses and disparage labor, you need to take a step back and rethink some pretty key things.
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May 16, 2024 20:42
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It's one employee firing off with an insane and overdramatic demand letter with others refuting it but thanks for trying to handwave me as a bootlicker or whatever Labor laws in the US suck AND Comparing working at a busy cookie store to slave labor or being sent down to the coal mines or whatever is more than likely extremely hyperbolic. Both things can be true. If they are actually skirting minimum wage then yes, bring the hammer down. SweetMercifulCrap! fucked around with this message at 21:02 on May 16, 2024 |
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May 16, 2024 20:52
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:I'm confused. The original post alleged that they make under $10 an hour but then the other post clarified that they actually average around 18-22 an hour. The ones that bitched the most on my program had never lived outside of their parent’s homes, had never had a real job, lots of them were like 2nd semester freshmen. At Pirates my program we were all like graduated or soon to be graduated and they talked about us being the best drat batch of CPs they had for years. My one complaint about one of the best jobs I ever had was it just didn’t pay enough. I was getting 7.34 an hour as attractions and always said I would have stuck with it if it paid better. Hell, I think CPs these days make more than i did opening club 33. I left ~5 years ago making $16.84 or so.
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May 16, 2024 21:04
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“The best job I ever had paid me slave wages” is exactly what I meant above lol
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May 16, 2024 21:06
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Cais posted:The ones that bitched the most on my program had never lived outside of their parent’s homes, had never had a real job, lots of them were like 2nd semester freshmen. I think CPs are at $16 an hour now. And also yep - typically those who had some experience or knew what to expect complained less. But also where you work on the CP does play a huge part. I am NOT "disparaging labor", but someone working in a performance role or, say, at Tower of Terror, is more likely to have a positive experience vs. someone working custodial or quick service foods. Bottom Liner posted:“The best job I ever had paid me slave wages” is exactly what I meant above lol I think they meant "the most fun and interesting job I've ever had". Over the years I have known and worked with a ton of people who feel the same. They would stay if it paid enough.
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May 16, 2024 21:13
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True. My leaders actually mentioned that Tomorrowland attractions CPs kind of have that trouble, there isn’t really a good role to get behind in a lot of the locations. Custodial CPs on the other hand… generally most of the ones I knew thought it was a top tier role. You had a lot of freedom as long as you got your poo poo done and you didn’t have managers hovering over you. QS kind of sucks yeah but the shifts go by quickly. You aren’t bored that’s for sure. My wife worked in food and beverage and generally speaking at least working at Disney they tried to follow fair labor practices and proper food safety unlike some of the places she worked at pre-Disney haha. And if you’re actually willing to stay in F&B you can move up quickly if you’re willing to stick around.
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May 17, 2024 01:21
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