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You don't break out the fine china for a TV Dinner on a Tuesday Night, and along those lines you don't use the irreplaceable family heirloom for scrub duty (again, Joffrey using his half of Ice to cut his wedding cake is one of the clues that he's a jerk and the Lannisters for all their money and prestige can't truly buy class). Valryian Steel weapons do see action in war, so Ned might have used it in battle during the rebellion and/or against Ser Arthur Dayne. Several of the weapons are described as seeing action, though Ice was unique in that it is specifically described as being a greatsword/claymore/two handed weapon, which may have made it slow and unwieldly in a small, personal battle like the Tower Of Joy (the valyrian steel weapons that see action on the page are all one-handers, save Jon's/The Mormonts Longclaw, which as mentioned is a 1.5 hander/bastard sword for the sake of the hilarious pun [Ser Alliser Thorne even makes it]). But that was also literally a matter of life and death so if you're gonna use it all, that'd be the time. But they're also easy to see as things that are too valuable to use (and risk losing). so tl;dr we don't know and there's "support" for whichever answer you want.
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Dec 14, 2017 06:50
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The interesting thing about Ice is it's actually a replacement for the ORIGINAL ancestral sword of the starks, also named Ice, so they might have literally just made a guess at how big the original was based on tapestries and poo poo.
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Dec 14, 2017 07:43
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If Ice really was bigger than a teenager then I can't see it being practical for combat in a low-fantasy setting like Westeros. Better to save it for cases where no one is going to stab you mid-swing.
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Dec 14, 2017 11:27
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Tenebrais posted:If Ice really was bigger than a teenager then I can't see it being practical for combat in a low-fantasy setting like Westeros. Better to save it for cases where no one is going to stab you mid-swing. Greatswords have a particular role in medieval combat and were certainly practical: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbNL_At0IVw Hell, the Ice seen in the show is smaller than what that guy is swinging around.
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Dec 14, 2017 11:40
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I take the view that back when magic was everywhere, Valyrian steel was probably a lot more common (or at least, could be produced in great quantities by countries that knew how) and it would be reasonable for elite soldiers or nobility to have weapons and armor all made from it for regular use in battle, but in this debased age, what might have once been a fairly practical greatsword is ceremonial and only gets seen being used for executions because that's the kind of "ceremony" of sovereign power where you'd want to use your ancestral heirloom sword.
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Dec 14, 2017 12:40
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Anta posted:Greatswords have a particular role in medieval combat and were certainly practical: They're roughly the same length, reaching from the ground up to about chin-height (unless Sean Bean is unusually short or something  ). Ice does look visually shorter because it's got a particularly wide blade, which is one of the ways in which it resembles historical executioners' swords (the particular style of the crossguard being another). The main discrepancy is that swords of this particularly large size only really started coming into fashion towards the late middle ages and particularly the renaissance, whereas Game of Thrones generally styles itself more towards the high and sometimes early middle ages depending on the particular location. During that time, the swords more commonly used had blade lengths of about 70 cm (generally one-handed arming swords) to 100 cm (generally two-handed longswords), whereas something like Ice and later historical greatswords would be in the ~120 cm range. That said, it wasn't like swordmaking was particularly standardised back then. It's not inconceivable that whoever made it just wanted to make the biggest sword ever and ended up being kind of ahead of their time. And swords of that size definitely were used effectively in warfare (even though Ice would be very much on the heavy end of the scale), so the Starks probably managed to just make do with what they had. It might be a bit less than ideal for that particular context, but if you do manage to hit somebody with a sword that size it'll probably still gently caress them up just fine.
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Dec 14, 2017 14:01
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Or Stark ancestors/people in general were taller in Age of Heroes and Ice was made for their height.
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Dec 14, 2017 15:01
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Perestroika posted:That said, it wasn't like swordmaking was particularly standardised back then. It's not inconceivable that whoever made it just wanted to make the biggest sword ever and ended up being kind of ahead of their time. And swords of that size definitely were used effectively in warfare (even though Ice would be very much on the heavy end of the scale), so the Starks probably managed to just make do with what they had. It might be a bit less than ideal for that particular context, but if you do manage to hit somebody with a sword that size it'll probably still gently caress them up just fine. Speaking of heaviness, though, one of Valyrian steel's properties is being lighter than regular steel. That might enable more combat-practical big rear end weapons. Makes me wonder if anyone's mentioned a Valyrian steel ax.
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Dec 14, 2017 15:08
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GunnerJ posted:Makes me wonder if anyone's mentioned a Valyrian steel ax.
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Dec 14, 2017 15:31
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GuyUpNorth posted:Or Stark ancestors/people in general were taller in Age of Heroes and Ice was made for their height. Weren't northmen supposed to have the blood of giants in them or something? Im pretty sure they're often regarded as being both tall and broad.
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Dec 14, 2017 16:41
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Literal dragons doing A-10-style attack runs to incinerate hundreds of men at a time is awesome, and a dude using a 6-foot-tall greatsword to chop fools up in a pitched battle is also awesome; therefore, Ice was indeed used in combat at some point in its life. These are my facts and I'm sticking to them. 
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Dec 14, 2017 16:59
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Tenebrais posted:If Ice really was bigger than a teenager then I can't see it being practical for combat in a low-fantasy setting like Westeros. Better to save it for cases where no one is going to stab you mid-swing. Canonically, Ser Arthur Dayne's sword, Dawn (which isn't Valyrian Steel, but magic meteorite) is also a greatsword. And the Sword of the Morning is supposed to be a great knight. Don't know if that also translate's to great warrior in every case.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:54
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Part 13: A Winter of Respite The Riverlands has gone independent. This has actually happened once before that I’ve noticed, and it always comes back. I have a theory as to what’s going on.  I think it’s related to the war that Edmure has gotten into, and that when it’s over and the Riverlands has settled who’s in charge, it’ll come back into the fold. We’ll see.   Lord Karstark, our Master-at-Arms, is being troublesome, but at least he knocks it off for now.   One of our captives from the war for independence demands trial by battle. Fine, then. I have Jory do it -- he was Ned’s Master-At-Arms and is well skilled in duels.  Well, gently caress.  I find a job for Arya that she’ll like. I probably should get some bodyguards, too, but I don’t yet.  After a year of somewhat mild snows, the winter worsens.  The Vale swears fealty to the Iron Throne, and is under new leadership to boot. Who’s that guy, though? How’d he get in charge? What happened to the Arryns, or Harry the Heir for that matter?   Poisoned and jousting accident, huh. Welp. Guess these things will happen.  King Eddard has the love of the common folk.  Meanwhile, King Edric has finally bound up the wounds of the War of the Five Kings, as all of Westeros except for us returns to the rule of the Iron Throne.  Awww. Goodbye, Roose.    The war ends and the Riverlands come back. My theory was correct.  Map of Westeros, showing the territories of the two kings, Eddard and Edric.  Edmure, you are seriously on my last nerve now.  The mod glitches a bit, but as my captain of the guard, presumably it’s Arya teaching me, which makes this even better.  Old age claims another of the lore characters.  I turn my attention to the dragons, but I can’t make a play for one of them unless I’m in the same location as them and they haven’t already chosen a master.  So I have Dany take over as my guardian, in hopes that it’ll bring me into contact with a dragon. Also, she’s my mother and she has great stats, she was a good choice anyway. I’ll run the risk of turning High Valyrian (which I actually think would be sort of cool and appropriate).  Jojen nooooo   The winter has entered its fourth year now, and it strengthens once again.  Qothor is far away, but Pentos... now that’s a prize. Worth considering when we have a fleet.  Eddard is coming along nicely.   Year five of winter. Look at the absolute shellacking it’s put on our levies.  Rickon and Dany have had a daughter. That’s nice.  Well... not so nice, then. Dany, you bad bad girl.  What the... godsdammit Dany!   Edmure declares war on the Freys to seize their lands, which is a step too far, so I tell him to knock it the gently caress off... and he refuses me.  I intend to strip my overweening great-uncle of the Riverlands and take their overlordship for myself, but the council blocks me. This won’t be forgotten, Edmure. I’m 11. You have five years until my regency ends.  King Eddard turns 12 and begins his education. He’s doing well in everything except Diplomacy. I favor Diplomacy educations anyway, but in this case it’s quite crucial that we get that up.  Not a great trade for Curious, in my opinion, since that would have helped our education, but oh well.  Uuuuuuugh, what is this fresh nonsense? I blame Edmure.  Dany suddenly shifts titles, loses a great deal of holdings, and gains a great deal of claims. I think she lost that revolt in Meereen.  My older half-sister fucks up and lets her dragon loose. Mom gave you a dragon? No fair.   Winter-blasted levies or not, I can still crush the Karstark rebellion easily. Since it seemed like he went to war with me based on someone feeding him false information, I’m lenient and just make him reconfirm his loyalty.  His vassals, on the other hand, are not at all pleased, and they force him out.  The Grey Plague has broken out, but as of yet it’s sticking mostly to the Riverlands and Crownlands. Nasty outbreak, though. Edric and Sansa are probably worried.   Yessssss thank you Mom you’re the best Mom ever!!!   Oh poo poo. Game on, then. ...now if we only had a fleet... Where Are They Now?  The Hound is serving on the Kingsguard. Presumably, without a Battle of the Blackwater to provoke him, he never quit.  Oberyn Martell is alive and well in Dorne, serving his niece Arianne. He’s had a few more kids, although Ellaria Sand has sadly died of cancer (and Doran Martell has died of his gout).  Davos retains the lands and titles that Stannis granted him. His wife has died of old age, but all his kids are alive -- another consequence of the Battle of the Blackwater never happening.  Melisandre has been recalled to Gods-know-where. I think she’s out of this particular story.  Sam Tarly died in the fall of the Night’s Watch, as expected. (I checked and that’s the same date as Jon’s death.)  Dickon Tarly named his second son after his fallen brother, though. That’s nice, at least.  Loras Tyrell got married for appearances’ sake but has not had children. He also has a very unpleasant nickname hung on him; I wonder how that happened. Questions for the Council: Eddard is now 12 and will be able to get married in two years. What sort of bride should we look for? Do we prioritize their stats? A beneficial alliance? Claims to a kingdom? Any particular areas where we should be looking? How should Edmure be dealt with? My intention is to strip him of the Kingdom of the Trident but allow him to keep his lesser titles, with an eye to giving that kingdom to a lesser son or son-in-law once Eddard is married and has had some kids. If you have other ideas, I’ll consider them. And, um, does anyone know how to tame a dragon?
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Dec 14, 2017 18:48
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Question 1: we've enough claims for now (the North, and we should inherit Mereen - or what's left of it - from Dany). Let's look into an alliance. Question 2: strip him of his titles and send him to help Drogo. Question 3: it's easy. Feed him enough peasants so he falls asleep, and then tame it.
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Dec 14, 2017 21:50
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Still laughing at "Khal Drogo Drogo of Horo"  Anyhow, as for the suggestions: 1. I'd say go for a bride that makes for a nice alliance, shoring up our borders for when the time comes to press one of Dany's many claims. Any eligible Tyrells or Martells roaming about, perhaps? 2. Honestly, at this point I'm about done with this fucker. Kill him, exile him, just get him gone. 3. Chew toys and a scratching post.
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Dec 14, 2017 22:00
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Wait wtf the white walkers pop up two places?
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Dec 14, 2017 22:12
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Name's probably because Tyrell used to be Kinsguard, didn't he? Probably got the nickname leaving it.
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Dec 14, 2017 22:15
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Midnight Voyager posted:Name's probably because Tyrell used to be Kinsguard, didn't he? Probably got the nickname leaving it. It's hard to say. Loras didn't join the Kingsguard until after the Battle of the Blackwater, which didn't happen here. But also the mod moved up the Lannister-Tyrell alliance so maybe Loras in the Kingsguard went along with that? But with the Hound still in, would there even be space for Loras?
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Dec 14, 2017 22:21
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Donkringel posted:Wait wtf the white walkers pop up two places?
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Dec 14, 2017 23:08
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Is the land north of the wall technically part of your kingdom now? Or does it just remain as a barren wasteland?
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Dec 14, 2017 23:15
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CapnAndy posted:I'm as surprised as you are. It's my understanding that when they do non-canon invasions, it's only during harsh winters -- which we are in -- but them coming through Yi Ti is news to me. They invade the same way the Golden Horde does, basically. So yeah, through Yi Ti.
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Dec 15, 2017 00:00
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CapnAndy posted:I'm as surprised as you are. It's my understanding that when they do non-canon invasions, it's only during harsh winters -- which we are in -- but them coming through Yi Ti is news to me. They are laughing at your hubris in thinking by keeping them on the back foot you'd won. Now you can't even reach them. Important question... can the walkers build ships?
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Dec 15, 2017 01:09
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"gently caress this continent and its magic swords. Let's try the other one."
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Dec 15, 2017 01:16
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CapnAndy posted:I'm as surprised as you are. It's my understanding that when they do non-canon invasions, it's only during harsh winters -- which we are in -- but them coming through Yi Ti is news to me. Say, can you play as rulers in that vague way east part of the map? What's going on over there when it's not being ice-nuked by skeletons and demons?
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Dec 15, 2017 01:49
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GunnerJ posted:Say, can you play as rulers in that vague way east part of the map? What's going on over there when it's not being ice-nuked by skeletons and demons? Sure can. I see the logic for it. Yi-Ti is the easternmost land, Winter comes in from offmap. Yi-Ti is an empire that... uh, usually does... better against them. You can be any country on the whole map, even over there.
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Dec 15, 2017 02:46
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GuyUpNorth posted:Or Stark ancestors/people in general were taller in Age of Heroes and Ice was made for their height. Ice the Valyrian steel sword is only 400 years old, WAY postdating the Age of Heroes. Nobody really knows much about Ice the sword of the Ancient Kings Of Winter but I legitimately wouldn't be surprised if it was looted straight off a dead Other made of their magic ice. As for the others invading Yi Ti, they do have the Five Forts blatantly corresponding to The Wall and THEIR legend of the long night actually lists a cause to the whole thing so it's legitimately possible that westeros is more of an afterthought on the whole matter. reignonyourparade fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Dec 15, 2017 |
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Dec 15, 2017 03:42
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GunnerJ posted:Say, can you play as rulers in that vague way east part of the map? What's going on over there when it's not being ice-nuked by skeletons and demons? Slavic Crime Yacht posted:Important question... can the walkers build ships? Either way I don't much fancy the idea of them turning all of Essos into a blighted hellscape, though. Either they can't build ships, in which case we're safe but the game has to be limited to Westeros and will quickly get boring if there's nothing to do but take the Iron Throne, or they can and they come for me with the population of an entire continent and it's game over. CapnAndy fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Dec 15, 2017 |
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Dec 15, 2017 04:15
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Solve both problems by giving the Riverlands to a Frey and then Marrying a Frey In this universe, Robb kept faith with the Freys and they kept faith back. Our creepy great uncle stole our other uncle's wife after he died, and now he's trying to steal the land from one of our more loyal vassals. In fact, it's his refusal to end his attack on the Freys that made him a traitor in the first place. This plan has 3 benefits: 1)You cement relations with one of your bigger vassals 2)Your heirs will have a claim on the Riverlands if you do this in the right order, so then if the Freys DO eventually act up, you can just, you know, rule BOTH. 3)The Freys are known for their fertility.
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Dec 15, 2017 04:31
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Slavic Crime Yacht posted:Important question... can the walkers build ships? They just freeze the ocean over and march their entire army across the Narrow Sea.  That, or just walk leisurely along the ocean floor until they pop up in Blackwater Bay.
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Dec 15, 2017 05:46
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We should have killed Edmure when we had the chance. He's a screw-up, no matter which Universe you're in. I think I agree with the Frey option. Let's have endless children.
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Dec 15, 2017 05:50
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GunnerJ posted:Say, can you play as rulers in that vague way east part of the map? What's going on over there when it's not being ice-nuked by skeletons and demons? Yi Ti has a unique series of forts that are basically an eastern variant of the Wall, and a unique system wherein where one statelet is attacked they all form up into a massive empire to fight back but then scatter back into completely independent principalities when the war finishes. Also nomads with egg-shaped heads.
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Dec 15, 2017 07:30
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NewMars posted:Also nomads with egg-shaped heads. Riding Zebras
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Dec 15, 2017 07:48
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Mikl posted:Question 1: we've enough claims for now (the North, and we should inherit Mereen - or what's left of it - from Dany). Let's look into an alliance. just as an aside, no we won't be inheriting Meereen. Not just because Dany lost it, but also because we're not her heir, fAegon is (and yes, "Aegon of Essos" is "that Aegon," he doesn't get the Targaryen name unless he wins the war but he does get the family tree connection for some reason). Probably Dany's realm has the law set where a realm can't be inherited by someone ruling land outside that realm.
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Dec 15, 2017 09:37
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How to tame a dragon, eh? Should pay attention to that movie next time my kids watch it. Or not, it's pretty boring.
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Dec 15, 2017 10:29
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What is with this mod and the Tullys turning into tyrannical nuisances? Happened in my game, too.
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Dec 15, 2017 11:28
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Veryslightlymad posted:Solve both problems by giving the Riverlands to a Frey and then Marrying a Frey As for your dragon, I've learned the best course of action is to pray the RNG is favorable, but there are a number of factors that can nudge it towards a more favorable outcome. Having the ambition to tame a dragon, having the High Valyrian culture and/or the Valyrian religion help, having the right traits (brave, ambitious, genius, and/or lunatic), having a dynasty member with the dragon-rider trait at your location, being Targaryen or what the files call "Stark-Targaryen", having a dragon pit, having a friend with a tamed dragon, being Daenerys, and/or having intel on dragons from the hatch dragon egg event chain. I don't know if being tutored by Daenerys counts have having her at your location or if Eddard is a Stark-Targaryen, but I highly recommend building a dragon pit in Winterfell. This is, of course, assuming that both my horrible memory actually works and I am capable of correctly interpreting CK2 event code.
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Dec 15, 2017 15:04
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I went wife-shopping last night and these ladies are, I think, the top prospects. For the proponents of the Frey marriage plan, Ronessa is our best bet. She's got Frey blood through her maternal grandparents, whom she actually shares with the current head of the Freys. Nice stats and nice traits, and she's a Genius, which is always good to breed into the family line.  Arwyn is also a Genius and has good stats, and I wouldn't mind getting a toe into the Iron Islands. That said, while I'm pretty sure I checked all these ladies out to make sure they'd accept a proposal -- there's a few really good prospects you're not seeing because they'd refuse the match -- I thought Ironborn was one of the religions that won't marry infidels? So let's say I'm 95% sure this match would actually go through.  If we're just going for the most Diplomacy possible to shore up Ned's weakest stat, Leomella here is the lady to pick.  Hey so Loras Tyrell had some kids since I checked on him! Lucia is high enough in that line of succession to get a claim, but it's only on Loras' insignificant holding, not the entire Reach. She's Attractive and has pretty good stats, showing a lot of promise to grow up into prime wife material.  Alysanne Martell is a legitimate daughter of Oberyn and quite high up in the line of succession; she'd inherit a claim on Dorne right now. However, the current ruler of Dorne (Arianne's daughter) is quite young, and if she has kids Alysanne is gonna get knocked way down and possibly out of the succession altogether. Solid stats and traits, though.  Nysterica, another daughter of Oberyn Martell, is already out of the succession -- but she already has a claim (albeit a weak one), and very good stats and traits of her own.
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Dec 15, 2017 16:19
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Vote Alysanne, turn the North a gorgeous mocha! 
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Dec 15, 2017 18:33
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Arwyn Botley so we can get some of that Ironborn navy and go stomp ice zombies in the east
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Dec 15, 2017 19:46
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Ronessa! Brains are something the North can always use more of.
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Dec 15, 2017 19:58
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