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MarsDragon posted:Yeah, you really want SP Regen on everyone in OG2. Mid/endgame grunts are just ridiculous. E: Update on the previous page.
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Jun 6, 2016 02:32
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With prior knowledge you can probably do without SP Regen but honestly even then it isn't like character slots are fighting for something better.
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Jun 6, 2016 02:41
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So how much longer until Egret's kids get involved. I am kind of surprised they have not shown up already.
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Jun 6, 2016 05:36
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Funny you should say that immediately before Mission 30A. 
Seyser Koze fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Jun 6, 2016 |
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Jun 6, 2016 05:39
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IIRC, this is one of the rare instances where OGs is harder than OG2, because OG2 Axel just had around 40k hp (probably expecting his 30% HP regen to be enough... Spoilers: It wasn't).
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Jun 6, 2016 23:07
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Nah, this mission's pretty much the same in both versions.
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Jun 7, 2016 05:44
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I'm disappointed that that save message didn't feature Lamia doing one of her girly-girl voices.
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Jun 8, 2016 05:13
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Excellen and Lemon? What was their father, a used-car dealer?
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Jun 12, 2016 01:18
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Let's just not mention Egret's kids... oh god, that gives me some PTSD to OG2 on GBA.
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Jun 12, 2016 02:52
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Mission 30, Aviano Route Last time we mentally abused Seolla and finally added the Wildwurger to the roster. This time, we're the ones who get abused.   We'll start things off by upgrading our new acquisition, with mobility and EN bonuses for the Wildwurger. A couple more pilots (Leona, Shine, Tetsuya) get SP Regen. Slowly but surely, we're getting ready for the latter phase of the game. Intro quote:The mission opens with the scenes involving Nibhal, Wendolo, and Mitsuko from the other route.  Mission 30: Engineered Children  Objectives. Clear the base without losing Arado or Latooni, who were both force-deployed. For the battle mastery, we need to take out 15 enemies in the first three turns.   We have a fairly large enemy force to deal with here, with a good mix of heavies (Randgriths and Barrelions), medium units (Guarlions and Landlions) and cannon fodder (Waldung tanks), along with a pair of Rhinoceros carriers. They're in two pretty clearly-delineated groups, so we'll split our force down the middle to take them all on.   We just dive right in headfirst. Ibis is still using the Boosted Hammer and is basically destroying everything that looks at her on the left. Things aren't quite as smooth on the right, with Leona and Kai splitting most of the enemy fire between the two of them, but we still pull through with minimal damage.  On Turn 2 Arado is close enough to attack, but...  Wait, really? 45%?  Oh, he's flying (and launches airborne by default). Let's land him and try again.  And there's the difference an S terrain rank can make.   One thing I notice here is that the Hagane's crew is still a shameful level 17 when most of the team is in the low 20s. We'll have to do something about that. Tetsuya learns Faith from this first kill, a very welcome addition.  It doesn't look like we accomplished much over here on Turn 2 since the squishy stuff died right away, but we've been chipping down the Randgriths and Barrelions well enough.   Rai does some fancy shotgun magic on the right...  And Shine slices and dices.   During the second enemy phase, we hit the 15-kill mark. Battle mastery get!    Things aren't looking good for the NDCs, and the reinforcements haven't arrived yet. The base commander orders all remaining units launched.  Irm takes this sight in with surprise, as he'd expected them to retreat when the tide turned; Leona (correctly) assumes that they can't afford to lose the base and are buying time.  The new wave came in a little further back on the left; it's more of the same, but with even more Barrelions and replacing the Waldung tanks with the hardier Fylgias. It's the enemy phase, so they all sort of move towards us in a big group.    On turn 3 the initial cannon fodder is largely cleared out, so we start moving to engage the newcomers. Everybody on the right takes a shot at the Rhino as they go by, destroying it by the end of the turn.  On the left, Ibis and Arado dive right in while Viletta, Irm, and Radha clear up the last of the first group.  And then we make an unpleasant discovery: all of these new guys have support defense. And they're all blobbing up right next to each other.  And when I say all, I mean all of them. It sure would be great to have Masaki right now. Or Lune. Or Tasuku. Or Kusuha. Or...  We'll just chip away at a couple of these isolated guys and work on that Rhinoceros while we figure out what we're doing.  Then I discover that the Barrelions are set to target the Hagane exclusively.  You might be a Barrelion, but we've still got a bigger cannon than you do.  Daitetsu and Tetsuya hit level 20 at this point, leaving them much better off than they were when we started. Arado learns Valor.   Our saving grace at this point ends up being Ibis, who hammers/RaMVs everybody who fires at her and does a ton of damage. Some of the enemies go for Arado, but with a maximum effective range of three squares there's not a lot he can do.  The fact that the Barrelions really want to get the Hagane also works out in our favor; they move forward further and disrupt the nasty support-blob the enemies had going at the beginning of the phase.     At this point, cleanup is pretty quick. Daitetsu and Tetsuya hit 21 here.  Everybody else wipes out the nice, squishy Landlions and Guarlions, just leaving us with the final Rhino.  Rather than killing it, I have everybody pile into the Hagane. We've been using the good stuff pretty liberally to clear the enemies out, but as a result of all those G-Impact Stakes and Royal Heartbreakers and Black Hole Cannons and everything else, our team is pretty well tapped out. Ibis stays outside to dodge-tank the Rhino, but the hammer only takes 5 EN, so she should be fine.  After a few turns of recharging we have Ryusei pop out and finish the enemy off. Scene quote:A new, unidentified alien mech arrives, and it's an odd mix of ATX features, combining aspects of both the Wurger and the Falken. It turns out to be Ouka in the Rapiecage, and - perhaps unsurprisingly - any efforts to appeal to her fall on deaf ears. She activates the GEIM System, and our pilots are horrified to learn that it's still in use. Still, we've dealt with the GEIM System before, which means the plan is the same as before - damage her mech enough to knock it offline.  Our new objective is to bring the Rapiecage below 70% health.  For all the talk about how it's an ATX mech it still reminds me the most of Epyon from Gundam Wing, what with the OOO DEMONIC WINGS AND CLAWS AND STUFF design. It comes with an anti-beam field (to make your beam weapons hate it) and a jammer (to make your missile weapons hate it). Oh, and 120,000 health.  In case we forgot, Ouka herself is a Genius, and on top of that she has Guard, Predict, and Prevail. Luckily she entered at neutral morale, so she only benefits from Genius at the moment, and the fight will end before Prevail can kick in.   Ouka also begins every single enemy phase by casting Focus, Alert, and Strike, making her the first enemy in the game to actively cast spirits outside of cutscenes. No matter how good your character is at hitting things, your first attack against her on each turn will miss - and no matter how good you are at dodging, you're always getting hit. Unless you cast Alert, so you'd better have either that or Grit if you want to go after her. She targets Arado exclusively, and thankfully he has both 10SP Grit and SP Regen.    Ouka: "Kidnapping Lat, abusing Seolla... you'll pay for your sins with your life!" Arado: "I don't care what you say to me, you're always gonna be my big sis! Once we smash that mech, we're turning you back to normal!"  "Arado Balanga... the one who stole our Lat from us!" Being an ATX mech, the Rapiecage has an Oxtongue Launcher.              Arado can tank these all day long.   After this we take another turn to set up, and Ouka brings out another attack.                   Afterward, Arado retaliates with his basic gatling attack, clearing out Ouka's Alert for the turn.  Not that it makes a huge difference, because after the Alert is dispelled people are still getting 0% hitrates against her. This is with Focus, for reference. You pretty much need Strike to have a prayer of beating her.  Thankfully, since she only has 120,000 health, knocking off 36,000 isn't going to take too many attacks. Here she's also using Stun Shock, one of the game's most useful weapons, which stops a unit from doing anything for an entire turn. Of course, with it being a status weapon, the AI only uses it for its accuracy boost, which means you only see it when the enemy can't connect with anything else. Like when Latooni uses Alert, here.   Latooni: "Sis! You have to stop using the GEIM System!" Ouka: "I'm doing this for your sake. And to punish the ones who've been using you!" Latooni: "No! It's you I'm worried about!"     That's a good chunk of the damage I need right there.  Irm pops a Valor for the followup.     Then he and Kai knock her below the threshold. Two moves, four attacks, 37k damage. ...I just realized that we've hit the point in OG2 where you can say an enemy only has 120k health and mean it without a hint of irony.  Since we hit the 70% mark so quickly, we missed out on some dialogue: quote:Ryusei: "I don't care how long you've been using the GEIM System. If you keep this up, you're gonna regret it in the end!" quote:Shine: "I know the horror of that system too well. I won't allow you to use it!" quote:Radha: "The longer it's active, the greater the risk of a cascade!" Scene quote:The Rapiecage is putting up quite a fight for a single mech, but suddenly it ceases to respond. Ouka has reached her limit with the GEIM System, and much earlier than expected. Before anyone can move to capture her, three more unknown mechs with DC markings arrive on the scene. They turn out to be piloted by the three Machinery Children, Uruz, Ansuz, and Thurisuz; they've come to retrieve Ouka on their "papa's" orders, though they make no effort to mask their contempt for her. Or for the DCs; when the base commander yells at them to defend the base, Thurisuz destroys the main base installation without a second thought.   So now we get to face every Alpha Gaiden/OG2 player's favorite mech, the Bergelmir. It has 110,000 health, and it regenerates 22,000 per turn. It has After-Image. Thurisuz has Genius, Prevail, and Attacker, and unlike Ouka he came in at max morale, so he gets to benefit from all of them.   Oh, and he has the GEIM System, so like Ouka, he casts Focus, Strike, and Alert on every enemy phase. We'll just send Radha up with Alert to take care of that.   Radha: "That child has mastered the GEIM System!?" Thurisuz: "'Course I did! Don't make the mistake of thinking I'm like Aurum 1!"  They both shoot at each other without effect. Now we should be able to hit him.   Here's exhibit B in why SP Regen is kinda mandatory. In OG1 you could muddle along with subpar hitrates if you needed to conserve SP for something. In OG2, you literally cannot hit certain bosses without casting Strike. We'll back up and send Arado first, with Leona supporting.   Arado: "What does your pride have to do with killing me!" Thurisuz: "I said you didn't need to know, Bronzo 28! Shut up and die like a good little boy!" Arado: "That's not my name! My name is Arado Balanga!"  Arado dishes out a good hit, but Thurisuz has a response ready.                 It looks like he's standing astride you here, like he's about to do this nutcracker move and smash you beneath his feet.   But no, he's just posing dramatically.   Leona comes in to support Arado ("Honestly, this boy's as bad as Tasuku") and knocks off another 5k with the Black Hole Cannon.   Then Kai decides he's had enough of this poo poo and just jams a metal spike in his face. Thurisuz's retreat threshold is 80%, or 88,000 health, so we're done here.  Thurisuz: "Heheheh... don't get cocky 'cause you put a few scrapes on my Bergelmir, little humans... you're starting to piss me off!"   And abruptly, the mech recovers. Arado: "Oh, now what!?" Shine: "Th-the damaged parts..." Latooni: "They're repairing themselves!?" Viletta: (That was... it couldn't be...!?)  Thurisuz: "Little field repair, there." Arado: "Hey! That's not fair!" Thurisuz: "Yeah? Maybe we'll give you the Machine Cells too."   Uruz: "That's enough, Thurisuz." Thurisuz: "Uruz!?" Uruz: "We've collected enough test data for the Bergelmir. It's time to come back." Thurisuz: "No! I've still gotta kill Bronzo 28!" Uruz: "Are you saying you won't listen?" Ansuz: "Might want to think that through, Thurisuz. Uruz can be scary. Hmhm..." Uruz: "Come back. Papa's getting impatient." Thurisuz: "Urgh...! You punks got off easy this time!"   Arado: "drat it, get back here! Let Ouka go!" Kai: "Stop it, Arado. We can't pursue them like this." Arado: "B-but Major!" Kai: "You'll waste a lot of effort for nothing. Remember, our mission is to retake the base." Arado: "...All... All right, sir."  Going by the script that I've been using, it's possible to destroy Thurisuz's Bergelmir here. The only real difference is that instead of going all  at you he does the THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE HOW COULD MY MIGHTY MECH BE DEFEATED  routine before doing the full heal.Also, dialogue that we missed: quote:Arado: "What does your pride have to do with killing me!" quote:Ibis: "What is that mech!? It's as fast as the Astelion!" quote:Latooni: "This motion data... it's based off of data from the School!" Closing quote:The discovery that the GEIM System is in use again has raised the stakes in the race to recover Ouka and Seolla, but Arado and Latooni are more determined than ever to succeed. Nobody knows what to make of the strange children, though. Arado never saw them when he was in the Earth Cradle, and he has no idea why Thurisuz would hate him so much.
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Jun 13, 2016 00:32
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Oh hey the super anime squad is here.
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Jun 13, 2016 01:01
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Oh hey the super anime squad is here. But yes, Ouka and the Machinery Children. While not a bad name for a metal band, their current forms are a taste of the hot bullshit to come for the rest of the game. Enemies that cast spirit commands? Check. Absurdly inflated stats across the board as a way of creating difficulty? Check. Annoying pilot skill setups? Check. Welcome to the rest of OG2, folks. The bosses are now officially no longer loving around and have the potential for TPWs if you don't pay attention or plan ahead of time. Hence the mantra of slapping SP Regen on everyone, even if you'll ultimately not take them to the end game. But like a lot of things, Ouka and Thurisuz's bullshit can be circumvented thanks to status weapons. The often overlooked Mind Blast special weapon completely nullifies spirit commands for a single turn, and it is in your inventory by the time you reach this stage. My usual strategy for this stage is to burn the Alert casting both Ouka and Thurisuz with someone to tank the counter hit (usually Irm), then have someone follow up with a Mind Blast shot (either someone with Strike already or having Radha burn an Attune cast on someone, up to and including herself). And then the multi-robot fuckpile unloads and cleans house. Ibis especially helps here because she does full damage on support attacks thanks to having the Combo Attack skill, which is another skill you're going to want to try and get on pilots as well. The support attack damage penalty is now going to start being noticeable from this point on as well.
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Jun 13, 2016 01:29
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Man, I forgot about this stage. The good news is that once your side gets the upgrades rolling the Machinery Children aren't actually that big of a threat compared to what you can dish out. If you can hit them you can burn them down pretty fast...if you can hit them.
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Jun 13, 2016 01:55
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Kenzo Kobayashi, parent of the year. But yeah oh god the Machinery Children, fuuuuck their bullshit forever, they were a pain in the rear end in OG2, and it looks like the remake just made them worse. On the bright side, we've finally completed our big long list of people that need their asses kicked. (Each with multiple commanders who all need to get shot out of the sky) The Neo-Divine Crusaders -Argilla and Cuervo for their School bullshit -The Machinery Children -That random samurai rear end in a top hat from the pre-prologue. The Shadow Mirrors The Inspectors The Einst
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Jun 13, 2016 04:12
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Remember when I said a long while ago that the arrival of the Inspectors started a series of stages where you end up running away from or timing out a bunch of enemy bosses? Well I hope you got used to doing that by now because, it isn't over! Unless you're following a guide, then the two groups of beefy grunts and Ouka will have drained enough of your resources that Thurisaz will happily take potshots at your units while being essentially invincible until he's told to retreat. The machinery children are difficult to fight, their mechs are cool and their shared theme with Wodan is great. They are the final piece of the puzzle that makes the Earth Cradle bunch a strong contender for best antagonist faction in the game, and as it has been noted before, this game has a lot of factions. 
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Jun 13, 2016 05:06
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legoman727 posted:Kenzo Kobayashi, parent of the year. hey come on now he feels real bad about it, all right
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Jun 13, 2016 06:04
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GimmickMan posted:Remember when I said a long while ago that the arrival of the Inspectors started a series of stages where you end up running away from or timing out a bunch of enemy bosses? Well I hope you got used to doing that by now because, it isn't over! Unless you're following a guide, then the two groups of beefy grunts and Ouka will have drained enough of your resources that Thurisaz will happily take potshots at your units while being essentially invincible until he's told to retreat. This, ultimately, is despite every improvement OG2 made why I prefer OG1. For the majority of the game, ever since we met Carla and Yuki, we've barely KILLED any bosses, we've forced a lot of retreats, but almost every enemy is above our damage threshold, it just becomes utterly loving tedious. I'll take SRWJ's "Reinforcements forever" to OG2s "Hope you don't like killing any bosses until the rear end end of the game.
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Jun 13, 2016 14:59
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I think OG2 does a good job of making you feel like you're outnumbered and outgunned by all the baddies taking over the world and ruining whatever semblance of stability OG1 established. In other words, it is a feature and not a bug. But I agree that, generally speaking, OG1 is better paced even if it does have a bunch of stages where you fight some enemies and wait for the plot to advance. OG2 doesn't have the same problem, but it does stretch everything out for so long there's very little sense of progression until the endgame.
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Jun 13, 2016 18:07
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OG1 was pretty blatantly two game stories shoved together in order. The upside was that you got some progression, the downside was that there was a lot of filler. OG2 is more stories but they're all dragged out to the endgame even when it doesn't make sense. It's especially bad when Seyzer gets the "no, gently caress YOU" button in a few stages. The balance gets better in the coming games.
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Jun 13, 2016 18:57
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Onmi posted:This, ultimately, is despite every improvement OG2 made why I prefer OG1. For the majority of the game, ever since we met Carla and Yuki, we've barely KILLED any bosses, we've forced a lot of retreats, but almost every enemy is above our damage threshold, it just becomes utterly loving tedious. I'll take SRWJ's "Reinforcements forever" to OG2s "Hope you don't like killing any bosses until the rear end end of the game. It's not really any different in OG1, it's just that instead of doing 30,000 damage and then they shout "I'm retreating", in OG1 you did 30,000 damage to bring them down to 0 HP and then they shouted "I'm retreating!". At least in OG2 you get to fail to kill a wide variety of bosses, as opposed to OG1 where half of the first half of the game involved either Tenzan yelling about extra lives or Tempest yelling "I CAN'T LOSE HERE BECAUSE REVENGE ON THE FEDERATION" because the entire boss roster until late-game was basically a few jackasses in Guarlions, a jackass in a Barrelion, and maybe a jackass or two in various carriers.
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Jun 13, 2016 19:13
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Also that's not very different then any other SRW in my experience. You spend the game fighting retreating bosses until endgame when they finally die at the end of the game (Except for you Frost Brothers.  )
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Jun 13, 2016 19:52
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By stage 21 of OG1 we had taken out the key antagonists and by stage 27 we had taken all named antagonists until then. It is a noticeable difference, but I don't hold it against OG2 because I know what it is going for. This game is closer to how traditional SRWs tend to approach pacing, but those games have a multitude of named enemies and episode plots to draw from and give you some sense of progression during the first 30 stages of the game. It is also a lot easier to accept cutscene retreats or victories when you're still getting EXP, cash and PP for beating enemies which doesn't happen in OG2 during a lot of the first half. GimmickMan fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Jun 13, 2016 |
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Jun 13, 2016 22:45
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GimmickMan posted:It is also a lot easier to accept cutscene retreats or victories when you're still getting EXP, cash and PP for beating enemies which doesn't happen in OG2 during a lot of the first half. I was about to respond myself but yes, basically, on a mechanical level. This is the main difference. It's maybe just from my limited SRW experience, but even with cutscene victories many times at least the game deigns to let me get rewarded for taking down the bosses, not constantly denied by their utterly bullshit HP and retreat requirements. I can appreciate the gameplay serving the story in this regard, of making the player feel outnumbered and outgunned, but it still annoys me from a 'fun' level. OG2 is not very fun, because it is a game with a tonne of walls for enemies at which point the correct response is to just have Ryusei shred the enemy all alone, because he's the most efficient killer in the game.
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Jun 14, 2016 02:49
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Were the Machine Kids involved with the School originally? The earliest I remember it being mentioned was in Alpha 2. Also, it just hit me how horrifying the School is: An enemy force that basically can't be reasoned with because they'll just get gaslighted into hating you every time they get away.
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Jun 14, 2016 03:41
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The Machine Children were originally only involved with the DC through the Alpha Gaiden plot. I'm not actually sure how The School plot played out in Alpha 2, since I haven't actually played Arado's route. The first time it comes up is in OG1, though.
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Jun 14, 2016 03:48
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Wounded Land posted:Also, it just hit me how horrifying the School is: An enemy force that basically can't be reasoned with because they'll just get gaslighted into hating you every time they get away.
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Jun 14, 2016 03:58
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Seyser Koze posted:BIG OL' UPDATE 
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Jun 14, 2016 07:36
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MarsDragon posted:The Machine Children were originally only involved with the DC through the Alpha Gaiden plot. I'm not actually sure how The School plot played out in Alpha 2, since I haven't actually played Arado's route. The first time it comes up is in OG1, though. In the Alphaverse the School is a Titan program to raise children up into good little Titan soldiers. Arado and Seolla have basically been raised on a steady diet of propaganda about how the Titans are the real defenders of the Earth Sphere and Londo Bell/the Federation have stolen credit for all of their successes. By the time Alpha 2 rolls around the Titans have been pretty much annihilated except for a handful of remnants, and Arado and Seolla end up under Yazan Gable's command (since Yazan will survive until the heat death of the universe). You spend the first few missions fighting for the bad guys on what turns out to be Char's Neo-Zeon faction. Arado gets shot down while rushing to Seolla's defense, gets picked up by the good guys, and comes to realize that they're really the good guys. He and Seolla meet again on the battlefield, she's relieved to see him alive, but by now he's seen enough that he won't go back to the Titans. This leads to Seolla questioning her own orders when she gets back, and Yazan promptly tosses her in solitary, where she spends the next twenty missions or so. Seolla is eventually released to participate in a mission, but at this point she's just sort of going through the motions and Yazan was planning to use her as disposable cannon fodder anyway. She goes through a bunch of angst about how she no longer has any place to belong, but of course the good guys and Arado are there to welcome her in with open arms, the end.
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Jun 14, 2016 07:50
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So no weird memory alterations or anything?
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Jun 14, 2016 09:11
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OG2 played really fast and loose with just about all the plots it covered.
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Jun 14, 2016 10:05
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It sounds like the OG version of it is actually better than the original, I wa shock.
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Jun 14, 2016 17:58
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BlitzBlast posted:OG2 played really fast and loose with just about all the plots it covered. Plus someone on the writing team has a massive brainwashing fetish. I like the sound of the original better than the OG version, myself. Someday I'll get around to playing that last Alpha 2 route and see what it's like personally.
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Jun 14, 2016 19:33
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Out of curiosity how were Egret and the Machine Children originally.
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Jun 14, 2016 19:52
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MonsterEnvy posted:Out of curiosity how were Egret and the Machine Children originally. Alpha Gaiden takes place in the distant post-apocalyptic future. Egret is long dead and Magus (who we haven't really met yet) is the big bad. The Machine Children are douchebags.
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Jun 14, 2016 20:00
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Poor, poor Arado. Doesn't know he is to become the wellspring of all that is anime
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Jun 14, 2016 20:45
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MarsDragon posted:Plus someone on the writing team has a massive brainwashing fetish. Some gameplay spoilers of Arado's route adding to what Seyser already posted: You're in a Zaku (so is Seolla) with Yazan & his cronies as allies for the handful of early stages that are unique to each original and then Bright's dudes rescue you from your attempt at suicide by Gundam. Then you get the Huck Mk.III and things proceed as normal until Seolla steals the Falken and Yazan steals the GP02, you only fight Seolla like twice and she joins. You can get the GP02 earlier than other routes too. What is neat is that upgrades from Arado's Mk.III carry over to Viletta's & Ratsel's as well as to the Wurger, so that's a bunch of beefed up squaddies right there. I personally don't have the patience to fully replay squad-based games but, of all the routes, it sounds like Ibis is the one most worth checking out. Arado's is... Okay. Good ideas, but OG executed them (mostly) better.
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Jun 14, 2016 22:31
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Yeah, in addition to Ibis having the best story of the four Alpha 2 characters, you get to spend all your time hanging out with Gundam Pirates. It's not even a contest. 
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Jun 14, 2016 22:39
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My personal rating of the routes I've played is Ibis > Kusuha > Sanger. Ibis has a lot of good plot and relates well to the overall theme, and Kusuha is pretty nicely integrated with some background on the Chokijin. Sanger...is really better as a supporting character, but I like his rival a lot. (she was robbed n Alpha and OG, it sucks) That said, I wouldn't play Ibis' first because her entire plot is about her not being that great a pilot in the beginning and some New Game+ing really smooths that bit over. She's a beast once she gets her upgrade, though.
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Jun 15, 2016 00:34
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Wait, which rival? The one who resembles a Jeeg villain?
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Jun 15, 2016 01:45
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| # ? May 25, 2024 12:39 |
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Kukuru doesn't look like a Jeeg villain, she's just hanging out with them until the heroes kill Himika and she shacks up with the Mycane instead. But yes, her.
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Jun 15, 2016 02:34
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