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It's really kind of mind-boggling how much the pro-WWE/anti-AEW crowd thinks AEW fans care about WWE. If AEW goes out of business somehow, I'll just watch more indies again and maybe try getting back into New Japan. I only think about WWE to make fun of it here – if they suddenly started making a watchable product with better camera work and directing (and weren't run by scum), I'd have no problem watching it. All I want is more good wrestling! Just the absolute weirdest group of people willing to die on their WWE hill.
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Dec 27, 2021 15:44
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Vince die-hards, most certainly not fans of 1/6
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Dec 27, 2021 15:48
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Not to be a killjoy or anything, but can we have more "person does amazing mental gymnastics to show why WWE good/not-WWE bad" stuff, and less "obvious revenge fantasy projection from a clearly deranged and potentially dangerous person" kind of stuff? TIA 
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Dec 27, 2021 15:55
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This chart is a good reminder that the tribal chief, the Top Guy at the #1 company on the planet forevermore makes about as much as a mid-level exemption guy in the NBA, except those guys can make outside money without kicking up to the boss
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Dec 27, 2021 16:18
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Tax-payer MLE is $5.9m this year, which I think even Roman might be just under given what is known about other WWE contracts.
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Dec 27, 2021 16:23
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I knew that chart was pulled straight out of someone's rear end, because there's no way Vince is going to let someone in his employ make that much money to where they can just leave and not be dependent on him any more
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Dec 27, 2021 16:24
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King Bahamut posted:This chart is a good reminder that the tribal chief, the Top Guy at the #1 company on the planet forevermore makes about as much as a mid-level exemption guy in the NBA, except those guys can make outside money without kicking up to the boss It's also a good reminder that font matching and image cropping are some basic skills not everybody can manage. Now, if we're talking real poo poo then let's just pull up that AEW accounts payable invoice. It has a watermark and everything! Sydney Bottocks posted:I knew that chart was pulled straight out of someone's rear end, because there's no way Vince is going to let someone in his employ make that much money to where they can just leave and not be dependent on him any more The real #1 on these lists is Connor McGregor
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Dec 27, 2021 16:25
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Ganso Bomb posted:It's really kind of mind-boggling how much the pro-WWE/anti-AEW crowd thinks AEW fans care about WWE. If AEW goes out of business somehow, I'll just watch more indies again and maybe try getting back into New Japan. I only think about WWE to make fun of it here – if they suddenly started making a watchable product with better camera work and directing (and weren't run by scum), I'd have no problem watching it. All I want is more good wrestling! Just the absolute weirdest group of people willing to die on their WWE hill. Watch more Japanese indies! Become a Dove Pro fan or something equally boutique & sleazy.
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Dec 27, 2021 16:33
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if i could find recordings of Ryukyu Dragon Pro Wrestling
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Dec 27, 2021 16:53
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If AEW went away I'd probably average more than one show a month on my IWTV subscription which I haven't in a while.
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Dec 27, 2021 18:45
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https://twitter.com/flip_3xx/status/1475523787852558338?s=21 Getting snitch tagged 
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Dec 27, 2021 19:15
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Storming Daly's Place wearing nothing but my Fiend championship belt.
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Dec 27, 2021 19:38
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Ganso Bomb posted:It's really kind of mind-boggling how much the pro-WWE/anti-AEW crowd thinks AEW fans care about WWE. If AEW goes out of business somehow, I'll just watch more indies again and maybe try getting back into New Japan. I only think about WWE to make fun of it here – if they suddenly started making a watchable product with better camera work and directing (and weren't run by scum), I'd have no problem watching it. All I want is more good wrestling! Just the absolute weirdest group of people willing to die on their WWE hill. You can't be a true Internet Warrior unless you're convinced your enemies are just as insane and obsessed with their Chosen Brand as you are
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Dec 27, 2021 23:08
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Drakkel posted:You can't be a true Internet Warrior unless you're convinced your enemies are just as insane and obsessed with their Chosen Brand as you are I'm a pretty heavily biased AEW mark, but the level of devoted loyalty these WWE guys have is on another level. Making up whole narratives out of thin air. I don't like WWE, I think it's objectively bad in many ways, but I'm not going to lie and say, like, the video production is bad. WWE does amazing video packages, always has, their documentaries are super well done. AEW's TV has bad audio mixing, crowds come across on TV as less hot than they do in person, that sucks. I'm not gonna be delusional about it.
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Dec 28, 2021 00:05
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in my eyes, the best WWE can do is mediocre, and in recent times that seems to be in spite of concerted efforts to be very boring. So when some marble brain wacky tries to tell me that some throw away match booked 15 minutes prior with no stakes on a supposed PPV(that no one pays for) is better than a match another promotion has built towards for a year and some change, I tend to roll my eyes a little. I don't get on the internet machine and declare people traitors or enemies of god or whatever. And I certainly keep Martha Hart's name out of my mouth. Because Vince McMahon killed Owen Hart.
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Dec 28, 2021 00:26
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JUNGLE BOY posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/Wreddit/comments/qbcv3a/wrestling_fans_are_pathetic/ It never ceases to amaze me when people think the thing they'd definitely do in a hypothetical situation they just made up 10 seconds ago is somehow what everyone else has been actually planning to do for a long time.
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Dec 28, 2021 01:31
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All these rusted on, vincel gruel gobblers are very adamant that the entire AEW fanbase is obsessed with wiping WWE out of existence. Enough projection for a double-screening at IMAX. If AEW goes the way of WCW (much to these folks absolute delight), most of their audience won't be 'crawling back' or whatever. NXT 1.0 has been scuttled, 2.0 is arguably worse than early FCW, while the main roster shows retain all the problems as before (KDCD (kevin dunn camera disorder), abysmal and insufferable commentary etc.), there's nothing worth crawling back to. The fanbase will more likely splinter into their puro/indie of choice or simply stop following wrestling altogether.
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Dec 28, 2021 06:14
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It's pretty weird how whenever I stumble across a WWE weirdo in the wild they always always always feel the need to mention that the main thing that turns them off about AEW is the fans. It is the most bizarre thing. Most of us just want a good wrestling product and aren't weird about it but the fact that we have strong opinions about what wrestling should be and make fun of the lovely fed means we're huge off-putting jerks or whatever. Oh no people who have been starved for a good mainstream wrestling product for decades likes to get hype for a show with tons of good wrestling and isn't interested in the opposite. 17 minutes of wrestling on a 2 hour show or 32 minutes of wrestling on a 1 hour show hmmm which should I watch? 
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Dec 28, 2021 06:28
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Elephant Ambush posted:It's pretty weird how whenever I stumble across a WWE weirdo in the wild they always always always feel the need to mention that the main thing that turns them off about AEW is the fans. It is the most bizarre thing. Most of us just want a good wrestling product and aren't weird about it but the fact that we have strong opinions about what wrestling should be and make fun of the lovely fed means we're huge off-putting jerks or whatever. The opposite doesn't seem to be true either. I don't hate WWE fans. I don't really understand them, especially the hardcores, but I don't hate them in any way.
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Dec 28, 2021 06:47
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I just find it funny they are so obsessed with the idea of a new company emerging and how it may destroy them by existing. This is the same company that tried to make the XFL a thing. Twice.
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Dec 28, 2021 06:49
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Being annoyed by AEW fans is one of the most understandable reasons for not being into AEW, tbh. Who among us doesn't dismiss things out of hand because of a vague sense of dislike for the people who enjoy it It's only really sad when "I can't get into AEW because of the fans!" is paired with disappointed commentary about how much Raw sucked again this week
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Dec 28, 2021 07:26
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FullMetalJackoff posted:All these rusted on, vincel gruel gobblers are very adamant that the entire AEW fanbase is obsessed with wiping WWE out of existence. Enough projection for a double-screening at IMAX. To be fair, I'm very obsessed with WWE going out of business.
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Dec 28, 2021 09:46
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1glitch0 posted:The opposite doesn't seem to be true either. I don't hate WWE fans. I don't really understand them, especially the hardcores, but I don't hate them in any way. I don't hate WWE stans, but I pity the fools.
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Dec 28, 2021 10:01
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I think a halfway legitimate criticism of AEW is, like, "I don't know much about these particular wrestlers' histories in NJPW or ROH and Excalibur assumes that I do." But this might be a WWE-pilled thing. There have been plenty of times in WWE where they reference characters and stories from the 70s and 80s and I don't really get it either. That said, I love that AEW acknowledges other companies and indie wrestling because it makes them feel like this sort of focal point of the wrestling universe while WWE is an entity that exists in another dimension. I feel they also do a good job of introducing guys like Suzuki or Ishii and making them seem like big deals in minimal time. Even if I don't know much about NJPW or Bullet Club or whatever I can still understand the gist of it without Michael Cole spoon-feeding it to me.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:46
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Destroy My Sweater posted:I think a halfway legitimate criticism of AEW is, like, "I don't know much about these particular wrestlers' histories in NJPW or ROH and Excalibur assumes that I do." Like you said, I think they're just not about spoon-feeding information too much. If you know the history, you know it – if not, they'll tell you these people are a big deal/great wrestlers/The Butcher, The Blade, and The Bunny and you'll either like them or not as you learn more about them. The nice thing is that a lot of these people have storied pasts but nobody is resting on those accomplishments. It's not "This person was a huge star in New Japan!" and now they're having boring matches in AEW while everyone tells you they're a big star. It still feels like everyone is earning their spots and their cheers by busting their asses which is also pretty nice. Agreed that mentioning other companies is a really neat thing to do. As a kid, it blew my mind that ECW would reference other companies by name or wrestlers in other companies. I hadn't really heard anyone do that before. It just makes everything feel bigger because you can talk about all of this other history and not pretend that everything happening on your show exists in its own weird bubble.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:58
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And that latter point is the key: the stories still make sense as "these two used to be friends in another place but now hate each other" or "these two were aligned in the past and are now aligned again here in AEW"; the details of the Bullet Club or the history between Emi Sakura and Riho or whatever aren't important if you don't know them; while if you do its a cool thing to see continued on. Its the same thing with every TV show that's got a long history: its finding the balance between just ignoring your history to do whatever and angering older fans that take that stuff seriously; or being really up yourself and making a sure that the hardcore like but which is not easy for anyone else to understand. The "referencing what wrestlers did elsewhere at all is very bad" thing is WWE pilled since it takes your audience for fools: like think of watching a sports broadcast where an announcer is comparing whatever is happening to something or someone from the past: acknowledging that players or teams have a history isn't going to run off new fans and you might get more people into that history. I think it fits a wider thing where WWE doing things in their own weird way has meant that you have people that think that things that sports or other TV shows routinely do are verboten and against all the rules which is very weird.
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Dec 28, 2021 17:02
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Another aspect of acknowledging and welcoming talent from other companies is that it actually DOES feel like anything can happen in AEW week-to-week and that keeps you invested, makes you want to watch, etc. A brilliant example of this that kind of brings it all full circle is Eddie Kingston becoming a legitimate fan favorite among folks who'd never seen him before. I was in that camp. Commentary was like "He's a brutal, mean dude from the indies" and then he cuts a promo about grinding while Cody's a bitch and they have an awesome TV match. In like two segments you've established a star out of nowhere. It's really loving cool lol I think the key to making the "anything can happen" stuff work (and something that the WWE true believers don't understand) is that you're not disappointed when a surprise DOESN'T happen. One of the best dynamites in recent memory (the one with Hayter/Riho) was just great match after great match. They can deliver a consistently great show with the talent they have.
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Dec 28, 2021 17:23
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Destroy My Sweater posted:Another aspect of acknowledging and welcoming talent from other companies is that it actually DOES feel like anything can happen in AEW week-to-week and that keeps you invested, makes you want to watch, etc. Ultimately, a well booked wrestling company should do the obvious thing 9 times out of 10 (hell, 95 times out 100). It's obvious for a reason, because it's clearly the right thing to do. Hangman Page was obviously going to beat Kenny Omega for the AEW Title, that was obvious almost from the day Kenny won it that the logical end point of that story was Adam getting his revenge & proving he was better once he had dealt with his own doubts. Or watching New Japan, Okada had an epic 12 successful defence title reign, 720 days as champ, & you could tell they were going for a long epic title run & you knew going in that Bad Luck Fale wasn't beating him & Cody wasn't beating him & an outsider like Marufuji certainly wasn't likely to beat him, but it didn't matter because the wrestling was usually so good that you got invested in the match & you bit on the near-falls anyway. That's how wrestling is SUPPOSED to be, but because the last time wrestling in the west was mainstream was when shows were booked with constant swerves & bullshit & incredibly short matches there's a whole lot of people who've convinced themselves that's how wrestling has to be. Sucks.
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Dec 28, 2021 17:30
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forkboy84 posted:Ultimately, a well booked wrestling company should do the obvious thing 9 times out of 10 (hell, 95 times out 100). It's obvious for a reason, because it's clearly the right thing to do. Hangman Page was obviously going to beat Kenny Omega for the AEW Title, that was obvious almost from the day Kenny won it that the logical end point of that story was Adam getting his revenge & proving he was better once he had dealt with his own doubts. Or watching New Japan, Okada had an epic 12 successful defence title reign, 720 days as champ, & you could tell they were going for a long epic title run & you knew going in that Bad Luck Fale wasn't beating him & Cody wasn't beating him & an outsider like Marufuji certainly wasn't likely to beat him, but it didn't matter because the wrestling was usually so good that you got invested in the match & you bit on the near-falls anyway. That's how wrestling is SUPPOSED to be, but because the last time wrestling in the west was mainstream was when shows were booked with constant swerves & bullshit & incredibly short matches there's a whole lot of people who've convinced themselves that's how wrestling has to be. The caveat to this is that you have to make it credible that this could be that one time out of ten. To use your Okada example, you knew he wasn't losing it to Shibata but the voice at the back of your head kept asking "yeah, but what if he does?". This is my current frustration with New Japan Strong. Tom Lawlor is a good champ, but there's nobody who looks like a credible threat to him. Their recent match was the epitome of "fine I guess" partly because at no point did I entertain the possibility that Rosser would win.
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Dec 28, 2021 17:49
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https://twitter.com/garrettkidney/status/1475812895397195780?s=21
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Dec 28, 2021 17:58
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forkboy84 posted:To be fair, I'm very obsessed with WWE going out of business. Ditto. They're a vile, evil company that's actively hurting the industry they pretend to be a part of. They're never going to die but I long for any type of karmic payback that may get to them one day.
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Dec 28, 2021 18:20
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the magazine wrestling community (mwc) is so toxic https://twitter.com/TrevorDame/status/1475819740459270145
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Dec 28, 2021 21:17
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What is with wrestling fans and this psychotic obsession with LOYALTY? Like WWE has a single shred of loyalty to it's wrestlers as it fires them en masse so they can juice their numbers 0.5% on the quarterly balance sheet.
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Dec 28, 2021 21:34
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The answer to that question, as with most rhetorical questions in this thread seeking to explore the psyche of the wrestling fan who says something stupid, is that people are stupid
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Dec 28, 2021 21:36
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Cult of Pies posted:the magazine wrestling community (mwc) is so toxic Good to know these idiots have always been around, they were just harder to find in the magazine and message board days I guess. I'll still never understand why anyone has loyalty to any wrestling company. A sports team I can sort of get, right? It's your city or whatever and you want your city to win the thing. Go for it. But it's not like these wrestling companies compete in the same way as sports teams, and if you love wrestling why wouldn't you just at least TRY to watch any wrestling promotion that comes along? I know I'm trying to apply logic to illogical people but it will just never fail to make my brain melt a little bit.
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Dec 28, 2021 21:47
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Drakkel posted:What is with wrestling fans and this psychotic obsession with LOYALTY? Like WWE has a single shred of loyalty to it's wrestlers as it fires them en masse so they can juice their numbers 0.5% on the quarterly balance sheet. It's not just wrestling. I went on a deep dive of stories of terrible management on reddit and the common thread was businesses paying people too little and expecting cult like loyalty from people. Like seriously paying people minimum wage and then telling them they should show more appreciation for the opportunities they are given.
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Dec 28, 2021 21:47
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Drakkel posted:What is with wrestling fans and this psychotic obsession with LOYALTY? Like WWE has a single shred of loyalty to it's wrestlers as it fires them en masse so they can juice their numbers 0.5% on the quarterly balance sheet.
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Dec 28, 2021 22:48
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Drakkel posted:What is with wrestling fans and this psychotic obsession with LOYALTY? Like WWE has a single shred of loyalty to it's wrestlers as it fires them en masse so they can juice their numbers 0.5% on the quarterly balance sheet. and God forbid they have any concern for the health of their workers! https://twitter.com/jimmyiiconic/status/1475817319725215746 https://twitter.com/jimmyiiconic/status/1475826436044906497 
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Dec 28, 2021 22:50
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Name: Roman Octavius Reigns. Job Title: Sports Entertainer in Sports Entertainment Division of WWE. Reason for Termination: Coward.
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Dec 28, 2021 23:12
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Roman you immunocompromised bitch, why won't you come to work in the plague zone?
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Dec 28, 2021 23:50
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