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Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Takes No Damage posted:

Yeah you'll see it plenty in future episodes, but imagine the Death Star covered in mercury. Ships can slowly fly through no problem, but lasers or explosives will have all their energy absorbed before they could reach the 'surface' of the station and cause actual damage.

The interiors of Iserlohn make up some of my favourite shots of the show. The place looks like ESB's Cloud City, but noir as gently caress because there is only artificial lightning.

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Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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It's not much of a spoiler to say that Earth still physically exists in the universe, and everyone knows that's where people originated. It's just not the capital of either of the two political entities.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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if you want a super normie comparison, it's like game of thrones because its about politics, and it aint shy about karking named characters

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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I'm okay with the empire being a sausage fest because its a hosed up aristocratic patriarchal homosexually repressed society, but the alliance needed a fairer gender balance.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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I interpreted that as Yang whining about the loss of his command authority, he wasn't supposed to be on board his ship, and his kid went and bought his friend/bodyguard along anyway.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Chas McGill posted:

Mashengo, who is a true hero btw.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Wasn't Mashengo introduced as Yang's rescue party at Heinessen? Yang doesnt like to be babied on the lines.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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RIP.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Rubinsky had a neat character design and had presence, the Terraists were a bunch of cackling imbeciles who couldn't do jack poo poo.

Except for that one bit, and that didn't actually aid their position in the galactic stage.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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P-Mack posted:

Yang, who is almost always right, straight up says "Terrorism can't change history."

Would def mesh better with setting if they didn't dress like idiots, though.

I think the moral of the show, if there is one, is that there is an inevitable march of history towards some kind of metastability. In the case of the events depicted in the show, it is peace through reunification of humanity. So from the first episode, there were two plausible outcomes: the alliance eating the decaying Empire, or the reinvigorated empire eating the best of the Alliance, into some kind of megastate less morally repugnant than the old Empire. In particular, the Terraists couldn't push back history and make Earth culturally and economically relevant again, nor replace Odin as the head of the hierarchy. Nor can the old high aristocrats of the Empire regain power, because their abuse of the empire had reached a breaking point.

But Reinhardt's won, and I found the show too generous towards the Empire. Like holy poo poo, look at the place, it's culturally stagnant and has been deliberately deindustrialised. Phezzan and Heinessen come off as more up and coming. I don't find the resilience of the Empire very plausible, Reinhardt notwithstanding. The old Empire should have been sloughing off massive chunks of itself over the course of the series. But instead, Friedrich barely resists the Reinhardt usurping the throne, and the Alliance cripples itself in a spectacular act of hubris, handing Reinhardt the prize.

As for "Terrorism can't change history", hahaha! Well, a better explanation is, terrorism can't change history of the victims of terrorism decide to use it as an excuse to do everything the terrorists wanted them to do!

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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It wasn't but when a modern democracy can't even make the trains traffic computers run on time, while a loving aristocracy was capable of conquering the entire known galaxy, something is seriously wrong.

Like you get shots of Heinessen, and it's skyscrapers, industry, traffic lights, cars. You get shots of Odin, and it's all ball dances and pastoral hills and happy smiling peasant farmers dutifully tending fields for their lord.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Kegslayer posted:

What? The show literally has its characters discuss various political systems of government.

(Ending spoilers) Given that is how humanity eventually end up, I'd say it's a fair compromise.

Under a constitutional monarchy, you have the chance for a once in a lifetime genius like Reinhardt to shine while the constitution and a set of checks and balances, such as a democratically elected Parliament, counteract the excesses of Reinhardt's descendants.

Full disclosure, I grew up in a constitutional monarchy so it's probably just my flavour of water


In that case, how is your once-in-a-lifetime genius supposed to legally usurp the previous incompetent king? There is a fundamental contradiction here.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Kegslayer posted:

Have/force the king to abdicate?

No *has Kegslayer publicly executed*

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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To me, the show seems like it has several perspectives. Yang is the show's superego: it is what he rationally considers to be morally correct. The Empire is the show's id, with all its pomp and grandiosity and homoeroticism.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Cool, the LoGH author got interviewed by Forbes.

Fun quote:

quote:

Finishing off I asked what Tanaka enjoy doing in terms of hobbies and what hopes he had for the future, I enjoy bundling up in bed and napping during the winter or when its cold. Right now, Im pretty captivated by the American presidential election.

so am i, tanaka-sensei, so am i

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Patter Song posted:

So...how will LOGH describe a woman?

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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If the Empire stays as it is, with the possession of the throne being the primary lever of power, then the situation is going to devolve into tragedy and bloodshed, no matter what. Reinhardt and Julian talk a big game at the end of the series about implementing a constitution, but Reinhardt (and all the other Empire chucklefucks) are too god drat proud to ever concede an inch of power from the throne.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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thats cause everyone loves yang wenli, and the author has a deep soft spot for the ideals of democracy and human rights

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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reinhard would smash in trumps pudgy face with a mailed fist

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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i mean, one of reinhard's psychological hangups is the fact that people could accumulate enough power to purchase human lives as property, as what happened to his sister

and donald trump is a child rapist

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Argas posted:

Braunschweig

yes! a good comparison

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Zero_Tactility posted:

Working my way through the audiobook version of Book 1, and the person they got to read it is pretty good. His Yang is a bit more snide and a little less chill than I'd like, but delivery on other parts has been excellent (the introduction of Admiral Fork's Terrible, Terrible Plan being a recent standout).

lmao that it basically predicted operation iraqi freedom

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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also yang isnt a frowny bishie type, he's a shy professorial type going aw shucks

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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All the imperials except sieg are poo poo

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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The_White_Crane posted:

Walter. Von. Schenkopp.



easily the best

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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If a risky plan by an active competent commander works the first time against an arrogant poorly led foe, then it's definitely going to work a second time!

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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my reading was that the empire had been in this state for centuries, and the fpa had only recently collapsed into mismanagement after coasting through easy victories

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Yang really needs an uneasy half-smile sitting on his lips at all times

Anyway, LOGH has a big female audience, the show is full of homosociality, lots of manly men being intimate with one another. The show is trying to pander to that with the bishie artstyle, but I feel like they're making too many mistakes in the process and sacrificing some of the character dynamics. This design philosophy works for some of the characters (like Reinhardt and Ruental and von Schenkopf), but most other characters are too earnest to do that kind of posing bullshit.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Dessel posted:

This adaptation is beginning to look really promising. Only really afraid of the pace. I can't say I prefer either adaptation over the another so far.

edit: I really liked the scene where they showed Goldenbaum dynasty literally demolished skycrapers for a lovely feudal society landscape

Yeah I'm liking the decision to move forward alot of the worldbuilding, I like that over the OVA. Also, make the fact that the Empire deliberately deindustrialized alot of its administrative worlds more overt. It is a sick land that does not take care of its citizens.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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DamnGlitch posted:

Man, the shot in the OP of seigfreid and reinhard's ships coming out of the clouds is so dope until they start dancing. It went from a classic epic shot to lame in like a half second.

thats cause they're gay

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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That big grid dock thing looks like something you'd use for resupply and minor repairs, not something that can really tear apart and put back together a ship.

While I hope they get to the next ep soon, I think it's not a bad idea for neue LoGH to contrast the living standards of the FPA and the Empire. The Empire sucks as a place to live, so much of their economy has been deliberately deindustrialized in order to enforce the social order of nobles and peasants. Like holy gently caress, someone was transporting grain to market on a loving donkey wagon, are you deliberately sabotaging your own economy? Meanwhile the FPA makes up for its inferior human resource pool with automation (even if their weapons don't have the same wattage and their reactors have lower outputs). It would be extremely scary to the FPA if some Empire leader were to, say, implement some deadshit easy policies to increase their economic output, such as increasing the productivity of their workers with some dirt cheap capital.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Giving a starship atmospheric abilities is an engineering luxury and has little war fighting utility. A starship on the ground can be killed by ground artillery or orbital strikes. A starship in orbit with its reactor running warm can respond/withdraw at a moment's notice, or support landing forces with its own orbital strikes.

A starship that can land on the ground is extremely useful to terrorize a cowed and unarmed population.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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the ova scene was rad as gently caress and this version was boring. surrendering your leverage just to a small band of enemies holding a portion of your chain of command hostage is an enormous dereliction of duty, leading to hundreds of thousands of human casualties on your own end

the ova made the rosenritters really work for it

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Holding a child hostage doesn't even make me bat an eyelid when I read histories of feudal aristocrats.

My take on how the old Galactic Federation evolved into the Galactic Empire under Goldenbaum was that automation was making large segments of the population unemployed particularly in the core worlds, and instead of holding that as a utopian ideal for self-actualization, there was a violent conservative reaction against it to put those lazy idle leeches to work. And the outcome of that was: the majority of the populace was stripped of franchise and welfare, and their economy deliberately de-industrialized to reduce their productivity and force demand for their labor. And huge numbers of the poor were genocided, particularly if they had a non-european phenotype. But the high productivity labor continued to be performed by machines, all for the benefit of the high nobles who were allowed to be completely decadent and idle. And this high nobility could maintain their power nigh indefinitely so long as they could continue to arm low nobles as security.

It's certainly one nightmarish way to resolve the contradictions of capitalism.

Phobophilia fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Apr 21, 2020

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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The Galactic Empire contained the vast majority of humanity, the culmination of centuries of expansion and economic growth under the old Galactic Federation. This bought on a variety of challenges as the rate of expansion slowed. The rise of the Galactic Empire was a reaction against bourgeoise modes of production, to prevent threats from the middle and working classes, their economic activity was deliberately de-industrialized, and made up for it with sheer manpower and automation. Heinessen's exodus was a tiny sliver of humanity that managed to flee into virgin territory, and when they managed to defeat the initial expeditionary forces, a large chunk of the Empire population immigrated to the FPA and gave it infinitely more manpower and economic capability.

But the Empire has always had more manpower. They utilized much less of it, while the FPA had to maximize the productivity of their population: hence they stuck to bourgeoise modes of production. Reinhardt restored the bourgeoise with extremely simple reforms, finally harnessing the his manpower and giving him a massive production edge over the FPA, and breaking the power of the high nobility in the process.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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A pity the FPA scrapped the counselling and therapist departments, Yang at that point had some serious substance abuse problems. In the end he couldn't function without sleeping pills, the man had just about given up.

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Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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As pleasant as Mittermeyer is I still haved zero respect for he and Reunthal because they are high ranking aristocrats being waited upon hand and foot by a legion of servants: pick your poo poo up yourself you lazy gits.

I say that and I still love everything Yang does, while he is a human disaster, he doesn't use his position to demand labor from his social inferiors, instead they by and large serve him out of a sense of love and pity.

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