Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

creamyhorror posted:

I downloaded Nemesis' encode of eps 21-32 some time back and was considering re-downloading CA's version instead, since I'd heard CA's was the only good English release (or something to that effect). However, I just scanned through a few of the Nemesis episodes, and the English translation looks competent, if a little bland, to me - possibly extracted from the DVD or something. Plus they look pretty good at 236MB per episode, without the odd colouration of CA's encodes. I definitely prefer their video quality. Could someone shed some light on why CA's is preferable, and/or why commenters on AniDB said this release's translation sucked?

edit: plus Nemesis' is softsubbed and includes Chinese audio and subs, in case anyone wanted them

I'm of the opinion that the animation is very secondary to the story being told. While I haven't seen Nemesis' version of this anime, I have a hard time believing their translation will be as good as CA's - which is among the best of any anime I've ever seen in terms of nailing down nuance and detail. I'd have to see the Nemesis version to make the call, but since I never found the video quality of CA's release to be distracting I don't see a reason not to watch it for their great translation.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

creamyhorror posted:

Well I typed out a segment of the translation from Nemesis' episode 25, starting at about the 10m30s mark. Could someone compare it to the CA translation for me? This segment contains two or three mistakes or poor translation choices, but was essentially understandable, although it doesn't render the register of the speech. (Slashes mark changes in the character speaking.)

ep 25 10:30 - Lichtenlade rules over the aristocrats on one side. Over the other, he actively kills the aristocrats who oppose him. I think he has ulterior motives. / You knew everything? / Lichtenlade pacified the aristocrats and thinks that we're blocking him. Is that what you mean? / At this rate, this wily fox may try to harm me. Oberstein, once the celebration is over tomorrow, go back to Odin and watch the enemies. Don't let anyone go. / Yes. If it's convenient for you, I've something else to report. / What is it? / Regarding Kircheis, / you're trying to tell me that I hold in too much regard? / That's right. If it's like just now, I continue to let him enjoy privileges, I don't think it's good. / I've told you clearly before. Kircheis is like me. Even if the entire universe is against me, he'll still be on my side. It's always been like this. So I treat him this way. Am I not right? / Sir. I'm not asking you to deal with Kircheis, or to let him off. I just want to warn you. Let Reuentaul and Mittermeier enjoy the same privileges. We don't need a No 2 person. No one can replace my loyalty to the No 1 person. If you don't think you're the only ruler, there's no way you can build a strong society. I hope you can understand this. / I do. Stop it. It's making me upset.

I also watched most of episode 31 (Yang's inquiry) and found the translation was fine except for the occasional poor wording.

I guess I'm torn between the superior DVD quality of Nemesis' encode (where did CA get their video source anyway? VHS?) and the richer translation that CA does. Nemesis makes the show look a lot more recent than CA does (a 90s vs 80s look), and doesn't have the discoloration and noise that CA's has. The choice would be clearer if CA's video quality improved at some point - does it? (I have only up till CA's ep 40.)

Fantastic show, by the way. I only saw a few sections but Yang Wenli is completely awesome.
CA version of the same segment. I think the difference in quality of translation is fairly clear, especially in the 2nd half of this particular segment. The CA guys are doing more than literal translations - they're translating meaning as well as words.
ep 25 10:30 - Marquis Lohengramm, the news of your victory: The Imperial Prime Minister, Prince Lichtenlade, while handling the affairs of state, is stirring up the emotions of the nobles who remained behind on Odin. It appears he has some far-reaching ambition. / You see the problem? Prince Lichtenlade has discovered the high nobles are now out of the way. So now he thinks of us as a hindrance. That's what it probably means. / That old fox. He's wasted no time stabbing me in the back. Oberstein, as soon as tomorrow's victory celebration is over, you will return to Odin ahead of me. Take steps against the enemy at our backs. / As you wish. But there is another matter I wish to discuss. / What is it? / It's about High Admiral Kircheis. / Are you going to tell me again that I entrust too much power to Kircheis? / I am. It isn't wise to show him special treatment like you did before, especially in front of the other commanders. / I've told you before, Kircheis is the same as myself. Even if the whole universe were my enemy, Kircheis would still be my friend. In fact, it has been that way for a long time. Therefore, I have rewarded his loyalty. What's wrong with that? / Your Excellency! I'm not suggesting you purge or banish Admiral Kircheis! Just treat him the same way as you do Reuental and Mittermeyer. All I'm saying is that you should treat your loyal subordinates well. There is no room for a "Number 2." Your subordinates' loyalties are irreplacable. Your Excellency can't hope for a stable government if you do not wield complete authority. / All right. Enough. Drop it.

I think I remember reading in this thread somewhere that CA was using the LaserDisc release of LoGH for their raws.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Eronarn posted:

So if we are going to make a new thread due to the entire series being subbed, we might want to look into putting out a banner for it, but before we can do that we should figure out what could be in the OP (maybe summaries of just the really major characters, since there are WAY too many to hit all of them). I think it'd be cool to put together something on youtube with the 'historical' clips of the series that Julian watched on the way to Earth that detail the universe, but perhaps something that leaps right into the action would be better? It's not necessarily a show that shows what to expect out of it from the start, after all. A three episode test is really not sufficient.

A thread reboot would be cool. I think as far as character introduction goes, what would have helped me the most going into the show the first time would have been a somewhat tiered list for the characters introduced in the first two story arcs; not necessarily in-depth descriptions of them (perhaps just how they relate to Reinhard/Yang), but who to pay attention to as significant, long term players. While this a type of spoiler, I think it's helpful to get people through those first episodes. Otherwise you're left with a somewhat false impression that if you can't remember who everyone is and what they're doing, you're going to somehow miss something important.

Something along the lines of:
Empire / Alliance
Reinhard / Yang
Kircheis, Annerose / Julian
Mittermeyer, Reuental, Oberstein / Attenborough, Cazellnu, Poplan, Schenkopp

Important other political guys:
Truniht, Rubinsky, Earth Church (no personable figure is given)

That list can be debated for sure, but I think any such debate should focus on: is there anyone not on the list who is introduced in the first 2 main story arcs (Battle of Astate and Iserlohn Capture) that should be? For instance, should Jessica be on it? She's a character that certainly is vitally important to the story, but she doesn't last very long. Frederica and Hilda certainly belong on any list of important characters, but neither are really introduced early on.

Emphasizing that people need to watch at least 8 episodes (ep 7 is the actual capture of Iserlohn, ep 8 is the imperial reaction to it as well as some important emphasis on Reinhard's ambitions) to even have an accurate idea of what the show is about is definitely one of the most important points to be made. Encouraging patience and asserting the payoff should be central to the new OP.

Also, I think Man of Wax's OP is well written and full of good info, but as he disclaims, it is a bit on the side. I really like his second and third paragraphs as a general overview of what makes the show special. Perhaps these could be jammed into the new OP with his permission. The rest of it, including the character descriptions, would probably benefit from a different layout.

aparmenideanmonad fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Sep 13, 2007

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Mac109 posted:

2-1 = 5 I assume? anyways awesome, I can never get enough LoGH~

Yeah, there are mini storylines and CA will be numbering episodes within storylines.

"Encoding Gaiden second story line 1-2 tonight (In both normal and h264) - From now on when I refer to a story line I will use the story line number...i.e. for the next release I would call it Gaiden 2 eps 1...and for the next story line it'll be Gaiden 3. The numbers in each story line will always be 1-4 unless a story line goes shorter or longer obviously.

Look for Gaiden 2 Eps 1 on Thursday."

Before we were on the 4-chapter "Silver-White Valley" arc, now we're on chapter 1 of the "Dreams of the Morning, Songs of the Night" arc. 2.1 comes consecutively after 1.4.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

abbad0n posted:

Gaiden 2 Episode 3: xvid h264

They're really cranking this segment out. Here's to hoping for a bit more substance in ep3.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

abbad0n posted:

Gaiden 4 Episode 1 is out: xvid h264

Edit:

Gaiden 4 Episode 2 also: xvid h264

Yang and Bucock sightings + Schenkopp sings = this arc can only end in awesome.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

No, these would be 13 and 14 on the list of Gaiden OVA1 that Funny Bunny has posted twice now. There's 10 more eps in this arc and 28 more in the 2nd OVA.

Funny Bunny posted:

This is the page with the episode titles for the first Gaiden OVA and this is the page for the second Gaiden OVA.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Oh Schenkopp

That was really pretty racy for LOGH. We've had lots of implied love scenes and even ones that resulted in pregnancies, but not even Dominique, Rubinsky's mistress who was always walking around in whore outfits ever got a nip-slip scene in. I don't think Elfriede did either even with all the screentime she got in Reuental's bed.

So after that slow-mo scene I'm thinking this latest fling is going to die and we're going to get some stoic Schenkopp justification of his love'em and leave'em attitude. Maybe even some background with a specific instance that sparked this behavior. Also, Blumhart is "saving" himself? Riiiight. This is the far-future military and you still can't be ?

I'm really loving the attention that some of the other characters are getting. I'm guessing Bucock is going to have his time in the spotlight as well.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Regarding Kesler and Oberstein, yes, they were both admirals. Oberstein was the Chief Minister of Military Affairs but had the military rank of Fleet Admiral, which put him on equal footing with Reuental/Mittermeyer. He didn't have any ships under his command, obviously, and was typically referred to by his ministerial title, but he was still a fleet admiral. A somewhat easy telling point is that he gets to wear a cape. In LOGH if you see an Imperial officer with a cape on, it means he is a fleet admiral (recall Muckenberger etc from early on in the show).

Kesler was a high admiral and also the head of the military police (as well as in charge of the defense of Odin at one point - he was a badass for being able to be in charge of so much poo poo at the same time). Recall the meeting that took place when Oberstein invited Lang - it was for High Admirals and up only. Reuental got megapissed that Lang was there and told him to get out, but Oberstein, Kesler, etc. were all OK.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Eronarn posted:

EDIT: I've seen the prequel and all of LOGH but I want to rewatch it. Should I watch Prequel->LOGH->Gaiden, or should I watch Gaiden first since I already know LOGH's story?

Do Gaiden -> Prequel -> LOGH for pure chronologically ordered storyline awesomeness.

Also, I do agree with the sentiment that there are many characters thrown at you by this show. However, at no time did I feel like it was too many when I was first watching it - the only thing I might sympathize with is not caring about them. I didn't give a poo poo about any of the characters for a few episodes either; however, by the end of the first main arc (8eps IIRC) you will <3 Yang at the very least, so I would give it at least that much of a watch before deciding it's not for you.

Yes, LOGH does not stand up to the contemporary standard 3ep trial as well as many modern day horrible 12-26 episode trainwreck animes. That's because its storyline is ambitious (and successful) beyond the scope such pithy standards

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

WarLocke posted:

16gb of various fansubs
I'm willing to bet that none of these are even half as good as LOGH

You know what you have to do.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

KlavoHunter posted:

Oh, cool, so ALL of it is actual classical music.

I just wish there was a list of the particular pieces they use in the series - especially during battles.

Ask and ye shall receive:
http://www.yumei.com/gin/c_guide-e.html

If you're not sure what some of the abbreviations are in the series/episode/movie listings, check the by-author/composer index and you should be able to get it.

The last time I watched LOGH all the way through I jotted down all the ones I recognized and only missed a few - all those trips to see the CSO finally paid off! Seriously though, the series really is a primer in popular themes from baroque/classical/romantic music. If you listen to all of the songs it uses in their entirety and learn them by ear you could snob it up pretty well in the right circles. Just don't tell people that everything you learned about classical music was from anime.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

cooldude2.0 posted:

Yang Wenli isn't the alliance's first brilliant commander, but mostly it's Job Trunhit's fault.
Agreed. The problem is that in both systems, up until the rise of Reinhard, talent had often been left in the unglamorous command positions or out of command positions entirely. Think about it, Merkatz and Bucock - they're about the same age and are both considered brilliant and experienced commanders. It seems like they should really be the ones in charge of their respective militaries without a Reinhard around, but they aren't - not noble enough or not enough of a panderer. They only rise to positions of leadership because of the turmoil that Reinhard creates - when a need for real battlefield talent arises. Guys like Sitolet and Muckenberger were not geniuses, they were just competent administrators who were relics of past eras - both rejected by the changing times. The battlefield commanders could be idiots like Lobos and the Iserlohn twin-tards because there wasn't anyone on the other side that was good enough to demonstrate anyone's incompetence.

In the empire, before Reinhard started cherry picking every talented officer without regard for noble heritage, you couldn't do poo poo in the military without a well established bloodline. In the alliance, there was an increasing trend of the officers who pandered to the politicians getting the big jobs. Job Trunhit/Lobos were the last and worst point in this trend, but it had been going for awhile.

If you watch the first few arcs of Gaiden this noble-only rule in the empire military becomes pretty clear - the only reason Reinhard ever had a chance was because of the noble ties from his whored out sister. The only reason guys like Kircheis and Mittermeyer ever had a chance was because of Reinhard.

Likewise, Yang, as great as he is, would never have risen to the position that he did without Reinhard. His uniqueness as the only alliance commander capable of matching Reinhard wasn't worth much before Reinhard appeared on the scene. In all likelihood Yang would have retired before ever joining the admiralty. This is why, though Yang is pretty much one of the most likable and interesting protagonists around, the story is really Reinhard's story. It begins with his rise to power and ends once the important conflicts surrounding this rise are played out.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Miles Vorkosigan posted:

So despite the huge fuckoff size of this series I'm thinking about picking it up, but does the OP still hold true as far as distribution? Like, are all the episodes poor rips from VHS tapes, or did someone get their hands on better quality? Recent shows have really spoiled me in regards to crystal clear video quality.

The OP is considerably out of date (its from 04 for fucks sake). The VHS rips refer to waaaay older stuff. CA began subbing the show using laserdiscs as the source 5+ years ago. It has since been fully subbed from the LD, and they are now going back to do the series using a DVD source.

It's an old show so the animation is dated, but it's not like the series relies heavily on visual details. Get the LD sourced CA subs, they're fine. I didn't notice an improvement worth re-DLing the entire series.

EDIT: Also hollah if you need a seeder.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Kweh posted:

SO I am on episode 70-something, watching the show whenever I have time and I was doing very good avoiding all the spoilers, however Code Jockeysomeone in the recommend an anime thread gave a pretty huge spoiler about Yang's fate. This has kind of made me lose a bit of interest, and it was my fault for browsing over the spoiler in the first place. My question is - was this the big twist at the end of the series or should I continue to watch it?

It's not going to go down like you think, that's all I'll say. Keep watching.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

I discovered LOGH because of this thread. Long live this thread! This thread and the various Berserk manga threads have been my longest standing SA bookmarks.

Zorak posted:

Rather than that, would someone like to write a new OP for the thread and PM it to me or post it here? No new thread, of course, what since this thread's age is special.

Whoever gets ambitious enough to write a new OP should really include either this link, or even better, a cleaned up english version of this comprehensive list of LOGH background music: http://www.yumei.com/gin/c_guide-e.html

I see questions about music pop up occasionally and this link rarely gets handed out in response.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

EX-GAIJIN AT LAST posted:

Yeah the narration was like "and that was the last time Julian ever saw Yang" or something like that.

NAUGHTY SPOILERS

The explicit Yang-death predictions start with...
Ep 78: "This became the last day that Julian Minci talked with Yang Wenli through the night."

...and from that point on, a number of hints are dropped up until...

Ep 82: "In this manner, Julian parted with Yang. How much would Julian have to agonize over it in later days?"

What's awesome is that they part after Yang teases Julian about whether he's going to hook up with Cazellnu or Schenkopp's daughter. No regrets is all I'm sayin - go out on a bro moment you crazy shining diamonds.

The first real Yang-death indicator in my mind is when Julian gets done investigating earth and the narrator mentions how much everyone would regret neither him nor Yang looking at the Terraism data right away, but it's not obvious that Terraism will lead to Yang's death at that point - just that they are going to be underestimated/discounted with some kind of unfortunate consequences.

Ep 69: "In retrospect, one more thing that could be characterized as careless was his [Yang's] delay in the examination of the data that Julian brought back from earth. Though it may have been understandable, considering that he [Yang] was facing a more immediate venture, the recapture of Iserlohn."

Boris Konev points out to Yang at some point how Julian should have taken the initiative to examine the data as well. I think that happens later, but I honestly forget. There may also be some narrator comments at the time that Julian is leaving earth with Wahlen about him screwing up by not looking at the data, but again, I forget.


Long story short, the narrator constantly gives away plot points throughout the series, including the, arguably, most important one Yang dying vs. Kircheis dying is arguable. There's way more 'If only Siegfriend Kircheis were still alive...' lines throughout the series, though maybe only because he's dead for a longer period of time. With that in mind, Kircheis surviving would have likely ended the show much sooner than Yang surviving. However, I think Yang's death hits the viewer harder than anything else. What really makes the series awesome is that the narrator spoilers take nothing away. While you absolutely understand that certain events are going to take place you are still floored by them, aghast at how they come about, and cry giant Wulf der Sturm man-tears when they happen.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Grenadier posted:

What really does it too, more than his death itself at the end of that episode, was the aftermath of his death in the next. Personally though I somehow found Reuental's death even harder hitting, that dude's life and death were straight up tragic. Finally, one thing that struck me as being fitting as it was frustrating was the complete lack of fanfare over Oberstein's death. That guy was a positively fascinating character.

To agree with your first point - I think it's the depictions of the other characters who are left behind reacting to the deaths that really make the impact. Like you said, it's the ep after Yang's death when Julian and co. get back to Iserlohn when the real tear-jerking happens.

Reuental's death didn't hit me hard in the sense of being sad/mournful (I really only got this vibe from Mittermeyer, and he moved on to bittersweet pretty quick), more in the sense of being awesomely fitting. The whole rebellion plotline was pretty much a tribute to how awesome he was - better than Reinhard in many ways - and the fact that he dies the way he does pays homage to him as well. In my mind, Reuental and Schenkopp are tied for having the best deaths of the series, with Lutz and Bucock coming in at a tie for a close but definite third. I might be forgetting a glorious death somewhere in there, there are so many to choose from! Someone remind me if I am.

aparmenideanmonad fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Feb 3, 2010

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Captain Invictus posted:

What, Schenkopp has one of the worst deaths. I don't think a single death was more cliche than his.

Yeah, Zorak pretty much beat me to this, but there's no way it's the most cliche death in the series. Here's some examples: Being offered honorable suicide and then wussing out/being forced to drink poison. Committing suicide to avoid capture/interrogation. Going down with the ship due to someone else's incompetance. Going down with the ship as a way to make amends for one's own incompetance. Getting puppetmastered by Rubinsky. Taking a shot meant for your friend. Crawling around on the floor with your guts hanging out and yelling for your mother. All of these are far more cliche even in the narrow context of just LOGH.

Lot's of people who watch LOGH like Schenkopp. However, I feel like he gets a bad rap as one of the shallower characters, so I'm going to white knight him a bit.

Schenkopp is a deceiving character. While at first he seems like a walking stereotype of badassery and machismo, there's a ton of stuff throughout the series hinting at more. There is a real tension between his stereotypical warrior/womanizer persona and his loyalty and feelings towards Yang and co. It's always interesting to see how and when he breaks from his "middle-aged-bad-boy" persona, as well as occasionally surprising to see how much of it really is him. You may be thinking "Hey a tough guy with a soft side. There's a stereotype for that too!" and I agree, but I don't agree that Schenkopp is that simple - or, if you do want to analyze him this way, that such an analysis is complete. The way his internal tension is dealt with in the series is anything but stereotypical

This objection about his death being cliche is exactly the deceptiveness I'm talking about. On the surface, his death is unflinchingly idiomatic - unstoppable warrior is finally stopped by the least likely person, then proceeds to defy his own mortality to the point that none dare approach him even in deathly repose. This is what I take your "cliche" complaint to be about. However, there's a lot more going on underneath. There's a really neat climax and resolution to the conflict within his character.

Schenkopp's persona is pushing to go after Reinhard instead of resorting to diplomacy, but Schenkopp himself knows Julian is serious about talks. In the face of this conflict, his loyalty to and feelings about Julian (and Yang) win. He basically admits that his persona is a fraud when he orders Julian to leave the Rosenritter-only party and go find the Kaiser, but he decides to keep up his image as best he can. The smirk Poplan levels at him speaks volumes.

When he's finally run out of opponents and is facing the imminent death of his persona (peace, family, grandchildren), he gets mortally wounded in an unlikely fashion instead. I'm pretty sure he was content with his decision to abandon his persona and was not actually seeking death, but when death presents itself he seizes upon the irony of the moment and chooses to go out exemplifying his persona. In the end, the conflict between the two sides is resolved - he got to give Julian (and Yang) the chance for peace and also managed to go out in a blaze of glory.

It's worth noting that the manner of his death is ironic not only because of the decision he had just made about his inner conflict, but also because of something that happens earlier in the series when the Rosenritter are capturing Lennenkanpt on Heinessen. Schenkopp spares a young, cowardly/frightened, incompetant soldier after disarming him and asking about his love life. Schenkopp is then killed by just such a soldier. It's as if his betrayal of his merciless warrior persona is coming back to haunt him.

Maybe you don't find any of this convincing. Perhaps you have another interpretation of what was going on right before his death. That's OK - I don't think "best death" is an objective category, at least not on an internet forum, and I can think of other ways to interpret things too. What I do think is that the very fact that there can be an interpretation like this, or debate about it, is evidence that Schenkopp is not the shallow character that some make him out to be.


EX-GAIJIN AT LAST posted:

When I go out I hope I am that old and even one tenth that awesome.
I completely agree with this sentiment. However, I don't think Bucock's death has the same combination of complexity/nerdy literary payoff and awesomeness as the others I mentioned. I am willing to concede that, based on a standard of awesomeness alone, it is right up there with the others.

EDIT: Regarding spoilers: Yeah it's an old show, but lots of new watchers of this series turn up and breathe new life into this thread fairly frequently. My understanding is that being a little anal about spoilers is in recognition of this.

aparmenideanmonad fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Feb 3, 2010

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

WYA posted:

What's it's inspiration in Japanese media?

Also drat... is this the oldest thread on the forums? Is it safe for me to read through it? Out of all the shows I really dont want to be spoilered on this one
All of the LOGH anime stuff is based on a series of books of the same name by Tanaka Yoshiki. He's written a number of other things, pretty much all of which have also been converted into anime, but LOGH is definitely a standout. Here's the wiki page for him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshiki_Tanaka

This thread is definitely among the oldest still not in archives and has survived numerous pushes for a new OP. I haven't posted in here since 2010, but the thread used to be very solid about keeping spoilers behind black bars due to the continuous influx of LOGH virgins. Not sure if such things are still in fashion.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Dictatorships can give better results for their citizens given the right leader, but democracies will, over the course of multiple leaders, more consistently produce positive results for their citizens while also protecting them against significantly negative outcomes. Dictatorships are well suited as short term agents of change while democracies are the superior long-term situation. This point is made in a number of ways in the series, but one of my favorites is this:

*END OF SERIES SPOILERS*
Any sufficiently benevolent and competent dictator (Reinhard) will realize that, while his dictatorship may have proven beneficial to the country's citizens, the likelihood of any of his successors' dictatorships to do likewise is dangerously small. Thus, he will seek to limit the power of future dictators by doing things like implementing a constitution, granting political autonomy to various entities, etc., because it's what's in the best long-term interests of his subjects. He does exactly this after his own mortality becomes apparent, though it also takes an act of valor on the part of Julian and the Yang remnants to overcome his pride and jumpstart his recognition of this point. Reinhard is such an interesting and contradictory character because he's clearly smart enough to realize this stuff on his own, but he's also caught up enough in his somewhat childish concept of honor that he refuses to give credence to any new view unless there are skilled people out there who can fight well in defense of it. If Yang had never been around to challenge him throughout his rise to power, and he still ended up dying young, he could have very well been just the well-intentioned start of another Goldenbaum dynasty (though I have a feeling that Hildegard would have probably made things right on her own once she was running things).

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Khagan posted:

Anybody feel sympathetic towards Bergengrun. Poor guy did nothing to deserve losing his master twice, then he ups and offs himself.

For sure. There's tons of characters in LOGH, but one of the reasons it works is because the introduction of smaller-role characters are used effectively on more than one level. The Bergengruns and Buros are used to tell independently interesting stories while also augmenting the stories of larger-role characters. These two are first used to show how "normal" noble officers view Kircheis: poorly, as Reinhard's untalented bootlicker. Bergengrun is so depressed about being assigned to Kircheis that he's basically become an alcoholic. But then they are inspired by Kircheis's talent and moral character in handling the Kastropp rebellion to an extent which shows that they themselves are good guys as well as good judges of character. After Kircheis's death, Bergengrun's loyalty to Reuenthal serves to show that, while Reuenthal is ambitious and sometimes portrayed as a villain, he is still a worthy leader in the eyes of a man who has been shown to be a good judge of character. Bergengrun is one of the more tragic casualties of Oberstein doin' his thang, but his death is also one of the best slaps in the face that anyone gives Reinhard throughout the entire series.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Benagain posted:

oh my god. I just started watching this four days ago and I'm thirty episodes in. It's like someone got into my brain and designed the show that I would most like to see.

Welcome to being disappointed in every other show you will ever watch...ever.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Ytlaya posted:

I also recognize a couple of the background music pieces from stuff I played back in youth symphony in high school.
You might enjoy this page: http://www.yumei.com/gin/c_guide-e.html

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

The music is definitely invaluable to the show in general, but I think the fleet battles would be pretty tedious without it. I probably would have been fast forwarding through stock-animation-of-battleship-blowing-up-#3 even on my first watch if it weren't doing so to Mahler/Bruckner/etc.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Part of the reason for the comparative brilliance of Reinhard/Yang/etc. is the historical context. Both nations have been stagnating for years and toadying/bloodlines/political maneuvering have been the markers for military success rather than competence. Yang is an unpopular and unambitious slacker whose competence is at least partially attributed to his study of historical combat and tactics. Reinhard is a hugely ambitious man whose competence is derived from his BURNING DESIRE to effect major change at an early age. He's obviously quite bright and intuitive in the right ways for combat (though I'm still convinced Kircheis is the better general/soldier between them) but it's his ambition that drives him to martial mastery. Reinhard and Yang are also both presented as outsiders who basically get lucky breaks (or in Yang's case, unlucky), so they both think outside of the box compared to their fellow officers. This most typically shows up in Yang's shamelessness and willingness to resort to trickery and emotional manipulation and in the scope and audacity of Reinhard's strategic planning. You see these kinds of qualities in some of their lieutenants as well, especially Reuenthal, Mittermeyer, Schenkopp, and Attenborough.

If they had both been born into meritocracies they would surely have been successful men, but there would not have been such a glaring gap in competence.

All that said, I still understand the complaint. I really think there's a more obvious target for it though, and that's the Rosenritter. It's one thing for Yang and Reinhard to outgeneral a bunch of nobles/political appointees, but it's another for a few dudes with axes to clean up hundreds of others in melee combat. That is some pretty unlikely poo poo, though I'm ultimately willing to suspend disbelief because it's as gently caress.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

You're quite forgetting this guy:
http://gineipaedia.com/wiki/Ovlesser

Also, in the prequels there's tons of hand-to-hand and ground combat involving the main characters from the show, and it tends to be a much more evenly matched affair.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend...eroes#Adaptions

If you've already seen some of the main OVA series (LOGH), the first movie (My Conquest is the Sea of Stars) is worth checking out right away, as it's an immediate prequel to LOGH. It shows the first meeting of Reinhard and Yang and pretty much feels like another set of OVA episodes.

The third movie (Overture to a New War) is a more elaborate retelling of the first two episodes of LOGH.

The second OVA series (Legend of Galactic Heroes Gaiden) is a prequel that starts with Reinhard and Kircheis graduating from military prep school, and also covers the earlier careers of Yang, Schenkopp, and others. It's not as good as LOGH but it's still decent. Watch this after the main series and the above movies.

The second movie (Golden Wings) is kind of weird. It elaborates on Annerose getting taken by the Kaiser and how Reinhard and Kircheis react. The art style is different as it's based on the manga, there's a completely different voice cast (granted most of the characters are children so it's not as jarring as you might think) and there's already a pretty long flashback sequence that covers this in LOGH anyway. I don't think it's worth watching unless you're curious, a completionist, or really want some pedo-slashfic fodder.

A new viewer who was pretty set on giving the series a serious shot should watch:
Movie 1 (My Conquest is the Sea of Stars)
Movie 3 (Overture to a New War)
LOGH ep 3-110
LOGH Gaiden ep 1-52
...then watch Golden Wings if you can't stop yourself.

If you're not sure if this is for you, start with Movie 3. Movie 1 is fine but it does delay getting into the meat of the series for those who might be impatient to see what's going to happen.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Captain Invictus posted:

SPAAAAAAAACE RAAAACIIIIIIIST

Zorak posted:

His response to Mashengo is because Mashengo is security and a bodyguard and Yang doesn't Give A poo poo about / Desire that.
Julian is Huck Finn, Poplan is Tom Sawyer, so clearly Mashengo is Jim.

Elotana posted:

I do wish the Alliance was more diverse. You've basically got Yang and Murai, Mashengo and Sitolet, and otherwise it's as white as the Reich.
It's made fairly clear that there's a substantial Asian population given Yang and other historical figures in the Alliance such as Guen Kim Hoa (the dude who took over for Heinessen when the separatists were originally fleeing the Empire), but I agree that there aren't really enough visible non-white people. At least there's a substantial number of women in the political leadership.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Yes, and Schenkopp is clearly is the rulin'est character in LOGH. All others drool by comparison.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

There's not a snowball's chance in hell that it will be as good as the original, but some of the space battle porn should be great.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

You'll thank yourself for taking your time someday when you finish as you'll never get that first-watched feeling back.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Depths posted:

Just finished the show, probably assuredly the best anime ever made. Oberstein is such a great character, that last opening song is AWFUL. Wish more people would watch this show.
ftfy

I just wish anime wasn't so polarizingly awful in so many cases because it's really hard to get your average fan of good TV to give this show a chance.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

You can take my Laserdisc LOGH eps when you pry them from my cold dead hard drive.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

If you don't care about BD rips (and I'm not sure why you would for this anime), you can get Central Anime's DVD versions here: http://www.nyaa.se/?user=71491&sort=6&order=2

Or you can try to snag the one true version of LOGH here: http://www.nyaa.se/?page=view&tid=148995

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

I'm seeding the 2nd link (LD version) again now if anyone wants it. They still have the corrupt 13th episode in that batch for whatever reason, so get the DVD version from the first torrent I linked.

EDIT: At least 4 people have jumped on the LD torrent since I posted the link. I'm going to assume these are all goons who have seen the light.
*sings FPA anthem in the original engrish*

aparmenideanmonad fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Oct 22, 2014

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Fuzzeh posted:

Any idea why the "Galactic Empire Military Anthem -- Valkyrie is Thy Courage" would be playing every morning at bestbuy? I work on the other side of the store, and I swear I hear it. I try to chase down the music and then its over before I can find out where its coming from. Seems to be playing somewhere near the car audio/home theater portion of my store.

Well, your only option is to fire this poo poo up and start an epic conflict for control of the entire store. But make sure you adhere to the principle of maximizing foppery and whim.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

CA has subbed all of it - find all the extra stuff here.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

That changes somewhat in the Gaiden prequels but that's largely because of Schenkopp storylines.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Last Celebration posted:

Sorry if this is commonly asked, but are the links in the OP the best/most recent available? I want to try getting a buddy into it, but the torrent link size is about eight gigs smaller than the one I got, so I'm not sure if it gets bigger or that's actually right.

Get the Laserdisc version. It's what Yang Wenli would do.
http://www.nyaa.se/?page=view&tid=148995 (There's more seeds on this than the tracker is reporting)

EDIT: If you want the ugly BD rips with weird colors on some episodes, they're here, twice as big, but with softsubs: http://bakabt.me/details.php?id=163344

aparmenideanmonad fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Feb 26, 2015

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply