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Egbert Souse
Nov 6, 2008



Franchescanado posted:

So I've been trying every day to find a new copy of Criterion's blu-ray of In A Lonely Place, which has been unavailable for quite a while. It's probably not gonna stay in print much longer. However, Deep Discount just got new copies available to purchase on their website and through Amazon. It's a classic noir with excellent performances by Bogart and Gloria Grahame.

DVD copies are easy to come by, if you're happy with that quality.

Itís unlikely to go OOP because itís a Sony title and theyíre Criterionís distributor. Crumb was out of stock for a long time, but just came back. Iím guessing with the pandemic, a lot of titles were between printings.

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Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003


Egbert Souse posted:

Itís unlikely to go OOP because itís a Sony title and theyíre Criterionís distributor. Crumb was out of stock for a long time, but just came back. Iím guessing with the pandemic, a lot of titles were between printings.

I recently found out that apparently blu-rays and syringes are made of the same plastic.

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

And I'm only saying this because I care.

There are a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing.




Fun Shoe

Just inject that content straight into my vein

dorium
Nov 5, 2009

If it gets in your eyes
Just look into mine
Just look into dreams
and you'll be alright
I'll be alright






Iron Crowned posted:

I recently found out that apparently blu-rays and syringes are made of the same plastic.

yep as an aside but related there is a huge shortage going on right now of sleeves for vinyl records. both the inner and outer sleeves you buy to properly take care of your collection. both from a sold out point and also from a manufacturing point because those plastics are in demand for much more important things.

Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018




Goddamnit when the gently caress is Criterion going to get their heads out of their asses and release Fishing With John on bluray?

Thom and the Heads
Oct 27, 2010

Farscape is actually pretty cool.


Anybody watch any of the Japanese Noir collection on the channel? Any recommendations?

I've watched a few of the films in The Gamblers collection - I love love loved McCabe and Mrs. Miller and really enjoyed California Split as well. First Altman's I've seen and I'm super impressed - going to track down and watch Nashville and The Long Goodbye this weekend. I also watched Hard Eight which was a fine debut but definitely not my favorite PT Anderson film.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Thom and the Heads posted:

Anybody watch any of the Japanese Noir collection on the channel? Any recommendations?

I've watched a few of the films in The Gamblers collection - I love love loved McCabe and Mrs. Miller and really enjoyed California Split as well. First Altman's I've seen and I'm super impressed - going to track down and watch Nashville and The Long Goodbye this weekend. I also watched Hard Eight which was a fine debut but definitely not my favorite PT Anderson film.

You've got a great weekend coming, those are two of Altman's absolute best.

I still need to check out California Split, and especially 3 Women. 3 Women is probably the last "big" Altman film that I have left to see.

FitFortDanga
Nov 19, 2004

Nice try, asshole



Thom and the Heads posted:

Anybody watch any of the Japanese Noir collection on the channel? Any recommendations?

My scores:

96 High and Low
93 The Bad Sleep Well
89 A Colt Is My Passport
88 Cruel Gun Story
88 Black River
86 Branded to Kill
85 Intimidation
84 Pigs and Battleships
84 Tokyo Drifter
82 Youth of the Beast
81 Stray Dog
80 Rusty Knife
77 Pale Flower
74 I Am Waiting
70 Take Aim at the Police Van


Haven't seen Stakeout or Zero Focus

Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011



Thom and the Heads posted:

Anybody watch any of the Japanese Noir collection on the channel? Any recommendations?

Haven't watched Rusty Knife, Stakeout and Black River. The last one is a Kobayashi from Human Condition and Kwaidan fame, and it has my Oshima boy Fumio Watanabe and Kobayashi's regular Nakadai so it should be pretty good!


Outside of the Kurasawa/Suzuki, which is probably the best known stuff some other essentials here are Shinoda's cool and gorgeous yakuza tale Pale Flower and Imamura's nasty-funny Pigs and Battleships. Not on this collection, but on the channel, is Imamura's earlier Endless Desire a fun noir about a group of sketchy idiots trying not to kill each other while digging a tunnel to a buried ww2 treasure underneath a town.


The two non-Suzuki Jo Shishido's are good, just don't expect Suzuki good. Was cold on Zero Focus but if you like the wife detective genre give it a go. Not a big fan of Kurahara either but I do like Intimidation, mostly because it's a hour long, so it doesn't have time to waste, just a fun thriller with two B actors that you always see pop up in Japanese cinema from the 50-70's and worked with all the Greats, but never know their names, Ko Nishimura and Nobuo Kaneko.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Anyone have opinions on Deep Cover? It's just been announced as one of the July releases. I see it was directed by Bill Duke, which is interesting.

Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011



Deep Cover is very good, and it features Jeff Goldblum wearing a leather trenchcoat that's two sizes bigger than him.


Coming back to the Wong Box. A video of the changes to Chungking Express. You can also check out the differences in color grading.

https://twitter.com/SadHillDevan/status/1382727792274464779?s=20

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



Basebf555 posted:

Anyone have opinions on Deep Cover? It's just been announced as one of the July releases. I see it was directed by Bill Duke, which is interesting.

Itís an absolutely excellent Ď90s crime movie and also features one of the all time classic hip hop singles as a theme song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo3rZjJB1hY

Great pick by Criterion, itís been out of print for way too long.

Spatulater bro!
Aug 19, 2003

Punch! Punch! Punch!



Definitely in for Mirror. Close to being Tarkovsky-complete.

DetoxP
Jan 27, 2011

California Dreamin'



Electronico6 posted:

Deep Cover is very good, and it features Jeff Goldblum wearing a leather trenchcoat that's two sizes bigger than him.


Coming back to the Wong Box. A video of the changes to Chungking Express. You can also check out the differences in color grading.

https://twitter.com/SadHillDevan/status/1382727792274464779?s=20

I'm unusually picky about this since this might be my favourite movie, but I'm so bewildered by the changes. The color grading is fine, and the new credits - though hideous - don't really make a big difference (the movie is over at that point, so whatever). But that crudely inserted needle drop of "Dreams" is so wildly unnecessary and absolutely changes the tone of the scene for the significant worse. I have no clue what the hell Wong was thinking there.

Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011



In my research into these restorations I did found out that the extra Dreams drop did exist previously in the Hong Kong cut of Chungking Express, a version that played only in Hong Kong and was only released in HK home media(vhs/vcd/laserdisc/dvd).

quote:

During this famous scene with Cop 663 and Faye, Faye Wong's cover of 'Dreams' can be heard in the HK version. It even continues until the next scene with the cop's colleague. In the international version, the scene is silent.

https://wong-kar-wais-love-odysseys.blogspot.com/2017/09/chungking-express-hk-cut-vs.html


But no other change from HK cut are present in the Wong Box cut. The HK cut does not have the scenes of Brigitte Lin kidnapping the child, notably because the HK audience at the first midnight premier hated the idea of beloved actress Brigitte Lin last film being one where she kidnapped children.(They also hated the missing last reel of the movie ) There's no Indian music, there's scenes exclusive to this version, there even scenes that ordered different.

quote:

As Cop 663 begins to notice the changes in his appartement, he discovers the picture attached to his mirror first and then eats the canned food in the HK version. It's the other way round in the international version. I also had the impression that the shots differed in length from version to version, but it's just minor.


But then why bring this one thing back from the HK cut? I love the song, but it doesn't really fit the scene.


I'm sure there's reasons for it but imo Criterion should sell these films as entirely different products from what came before. Put a Wong Box Cut sticker on this stuff.(also a Do Not Buy sticker)

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this


The question is no longer "Wong box when" but "Wong box why".

DetoxP
Jan 27, 2011

California Dreamin'



Electronico6 posted:

In my research into these restorations I did found out that the extra Dreams drop did exist previously in the Hong Kong cut of Chungking Express, a version that played only in Hong Kong and was only released in HK home media(vhs/vcd/laserdisc/dvd).


https://wong-kar-wais-love-odysseys.blogspot.com/2017/09/chungking-express-hk-cut-vs.html


But no other change from HK cut are present in the Wong Box cut. The HK cut does not have the scenes of Brigitte Lin kidnapping the child, notably because the HK audience at the first midnight premier hated the idea of beloved actress Brigitte Lin last film being one where she kidnapped children.(They also hated the missing last reel of the movie ) There's no Indian music, there's scenes exclusive to this version, there even scenes that ordered different.



But then why bring this one thing back from the HK cut? I love the song, but it doesn't really fit the scene.


I'm sure there's reasons for it but imo Criterion should sell these films as entirely different products from what came before. Put a Wong Box Cut sticker on this stuff.(also a Do Not Buy sticker)

Woah, super interesting. Had no idea this was in a previous version. I'm trying to let go from the bias of preferring what I experienced the first time but... I agree with you, I think it's just a bad fit to have that music in that scene.

Well, I'm glad I have the old Chungking Express blu-ray, I'll just keep holding onto that.

Alfred P. Pseudonym
May 29, 2006

And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss goes 8-8



Magic Hate Ball posted:

The question is no longer "Wong box when" but "Wong box why".

Good Wong box when

Cacator
Aug 6, 2005

You're quite good at turning me on.



DetoxP posted:

Woah, super interesting. Had no idea this was in a previous version. I'm trying to let go from the bias of preferring what I experienced the first time but... I agree with you, I think it's just a bad fit to have that music in that scene.

Well, I'm glad I have the old Chungking Express blu-ray, I'll just keep holding onto that.

My only copy of Chungking Express is the Rolling Thunder DVD that prominently features Quentin Tarantino's face staring at me in silent judgement. Guess I'm stuck with it!

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

I AM A STUPIDLY SEXY WOLFMAN



Grimey Drawer

I'm not as offended by the changes as some of you, but it is weird that they didn't include the original versions that have already had blu-ray in addition to the new ones with changes. Like, they exist. You have them. Add the file to the blu-ray or put another disc or two in there, price it accordingly.

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

And I'm only saying this because I care.

There are a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing.




Fun Shoe

More like WRONG BOX

BeanpolePeckerwood
May 4, 2004

BUT SATAN'S BOY
I COULD NEVER BE!




Pork Pro

Electronico6 posted:

In my research into these restorations I did found out that the extra Dreams drop did exist previously in the Hong Kong cut of Chungking Express, a version that played only in Hong Kong and was only released in HK home media(vhs/vcd/laserdisc/dvd).


https://wong-kar-wais-love-odysseys.blogspot.com/2017/09/chungking-express-hk-cut-vs.html


But no other change from HK cut are present in the Wong Box cut. The HK cut does not have the scenes of Brigitte Lin kidnapping the child, notably because the HK audience at the first midnight premier hated the idea of beloved actress Brigitte Lin last film being one where she kidnapped children.(They also hated the missing last reel of the movie ) There's no Indian music, there's scenes exclusive to this version, there even scenes that ordered different.



But then why bring this one thing back from the HK cut? I love the song, but it doesn't really fit the scene.


I'm sure there's reasons for it but imo Criterion should sell these films as entirely different products from what came before. Put a Wong Box Cut sticker on this stuff.(also a Do Not Buy sticker)

i gotta say i think the 'Dream Lover' drop in that scene is kind of inspired, i can totally understand people not liking it because they are used to something else, but the rhythm of it perfectly matches the stilted frame by frame motion effect and it's a nice transition into the more whimsicle half of the movie. i feel like i understand what wkw is going for there, and it fits his penchant for music usage in the films repeating through scenes.


that is to say i adore my wong box, i feel less compelled to collect more criterions atp because i almost have everything i could ask for. tho i'd def drop for a complete copy of The Devils

BeanpolePeckerwood fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Apr 15, 2021

Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011



DetoxP posted:

Woah, super interesting. Had no idea this was in a previous version. I'm trying to let go from the bias of preferring what I experienced the first time but... I agree with you, I think it's just a bad fit to have that music in that scene.

Well, I'm glad I have the old Chungking Express blu-ray, I'll just keep holding onto that.

There's also audio shenanigans going on with the mixing.

https://twitter.com/SadHillDevan/status/1382801872134696963?s=20


My ear is not that good for that kinda of stuff but I did notice that In The Mood for Love has also new musical stings. There's now music playing over the opening credits, the song that is playing in the opening scene is only heard faintly in the old blu ray, but is now more noticeable in the new one. A lot of the mix of the Nat King Cole songs are all over the place.

Then you have the color grading.(and aspect ratio)

https://twitter.com/SadHillWill/status/1382566435071795204?s=20

Old Blu-Ray


Wong Box Cut



The green migrated from Fallen Angels

Old Blu-ray


Wong Box Cut


But then....

Old Blu Ray


Wong Box Cut


It got greener in other places.

Some of the black and white scenes in the Fallen Angels Wong Box Cut now have some color highlights, but others don't.

Old Blu-ray
vs
Wong Box Cut










Then there's the cinemascope ratio. Sometimes it looks really nice, other times not so nice. Like it's not bad, but also not great, a perfect example of giving an alternative cut to offer up, like the Days of Being Wild alternative cut that is a bonus in the Wong Box.

BeanpolePeckerwood posted:

i gotta say i think the 'Dream Lover' drop in that scene is kind of inspired, i can totally understand people not liking it because they are used to something else, but the rhythm of it perfectly matches the stilted frame by frame motion effect and it's a nice transition into the more whimsicle half of the movie. i feel like i understand what wkw is going for there, and it fits his penchant for music usage in the films repeating through scenes.


that is to say i adore my wong box, i feel less compelled to collect more criterions atp because i almost have everything i could ask for. tho i'd def drop for a complete copy of The Devils

It's funny that it plays a plane departing noise cause he gets dumped by a flight attendant and it ironically mirrors Tony Leung doing plane landing noises after having sex with her. The quiet moment also works b cause up until that point in the second half the movie has constant music blaring, so for a minute it's quiet and it's a turning point for Tony Leung as he retreats inward.


Also it's a little note on handover dread in Hong Kong. The film is filled with sounds of planes coming and going(it repeats much like the music), imagery of planes leaving, people dreaming of far away lands, and worrying about expiration dates.


Edit: For the record I don't problems with directors changing their movies, as long as the originals are still actually available. Problem here it's that Wong Kar Wai already has a history of changing films then obliterating the old versions from history.

Ashes of Time is a wildly different movie from Ashes of Time Redux, despite not changing much. One is the product of 90's HK Wuxia's, a very odd play on Tsui Hark's work, the other is a product of 2046 Wong Kar Wai. But you cannot watch the first one in decent conditions unless you have an account to a private torrent website. That the Wong Box doesn't even have Ashes of Time, My Blueberry Nights and the 3(4?) cuts of The Grandmaster should also be a red flag.

Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Apr 16, 2021

Spatulater bro!
Aug 19, 2003

Punch! Punch! Punch!



Just watched the trailer for Deep Cover. That might actually be a blind buy for me. Looks great.

Kart Barfunkel
Nov 10, 2009



Channel chat, but I'm happy to know that the Marx Brothers still own.

BeanpolePeckerwood
May 4, 2004

BUT SATAN'S BOY
I COULD NEVER BE!




Pork Pro

Electronico6 posted:

That the Wong Box doesn't even have Ashes of Time, My Blueberry Nights and the 3(4?) cuts of The Grandmaster should also be a red flag.

I don't really miss these films tbh


It'd be like having a Malick box set that cut off after Tree of Life, it sort of just works. Sure, I like Song to Song just fine but it has less in common with the other films.

FalsePriest
Oct 20, 2010


I love my world of wong kar wai

DetoxP
Jan 27, 2011

California Dreamin'



I'm really glad that I have World of Wong Kar Wai and I know it's not fun to peepee poopoo all over something people were excited for (especially me... I mean, look at my avatar) but it's impossible for me to admit that I'm not frustrated with a lot of it. The Chungking Express changes are relatively minor but still quite bizarre, and the colour grading on the other films is extra frustrating. This is a $200 boxset, the least they could've done is had "original cut" and "Wong's *NEW* Version" side by side, which I think would be lovely. I'm interested in the changes Wong wants to make, but not at the expense of the original, especially because the changes seem just... lazy.

Vince MechMahon
Jan 1, 2008





It's why George Lucas sucks and everyone hates him, just not quite as egregious.

FalsePriest
Oct 20, 2010


DetoxP posted:

I'm interested in the changes Wong wants to make, but not at the expense of the original, especially because the changes seem just... lazy.

What are the originals though? The criterion editions that came out previously? The cut hong kong audiences saw in theaters?

BeanpolePeckerwood
May 4, 2004

BUT SATAN'S BOY
I COULD NEVER BE!




Pork Pro

A lot of these films weren't widely available (in some cases at all) over here until now, so I really have a hard time nitpicking about poo poo I'd only ever seen low quality rips of before. I'm sorry, I really don't care about some of this, I just want access to the films I enjoy. So, wong box woop woop

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer

Most of the changes itís like, I donít like them but I can get over it. The grading on In the Mood is SO ugly though, it looks so significantly worse and I hate it

Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011



BeanpolePeckerwood posted:

I don't really miss these films tbh


It'd be like having a Malick box set that cut off after Tree of Life, it sort of just works. Sure, I like Song to Song just fine but it has less in common with the other films.

It'd be like having a Michael Mann box set that cut everything after The Insider, it sort of just works. Sure, I like Collateral just fine but it has less in common with the other films.

lol this line of thinking is bad, especially in the context of Wong Kar Wai, who if he could, would probably delete every film he made before 2046.

Those films have very much in common with the others, I would even argue that The Grandmaster is probably Wong's most important film to understand his overall work. We're not talking about disposable content, we're talking about film history and the work of an artist that came from a very unique and particular place and point in world history.

FalsePriest posted:

What are the originals though? The criterion editions that came out previously? The cut hong kong audiences saw in theaters?

This is a trick question, but the answer is that all the cuts should've been preserved, and these days there is the technology to include them all. The Wong Box includes the alternative cut of Days of Being Wild which before the only place you could see it was a David Bordwell blog post describing it, so why not put the HK cut of Chungking Express?

Give me the Cannes cuts of In The Mood for Love and 2046. Give me the cut where Tony Leung is trying to bring live chickens into the hotel In The Mood for Love. Give the Weinstein/International/Chinese/Snyder cuts of The Grandmaster. Give me the old Criterions cuts. Put the Wong Box cuts too if you have too. I'll watch all that. Just don't make them disappear, which what this Wong Box will eventually do. Eventually the only version of Happy Together is going to be the Wong Box cut where Wong Kar Wai lost footage and didn't bother to replace it from other sources. Which is where this Wong Box goes from "disappointing" to borderline criminal.


Ridley Scott puts the theatrical cut of Blade Runner, something he finds completely abhorrent and personally insulting, in the BR home releases. We have the technology!

DetoxP
Jan 27, 2011

California Dreamin'



BeanpolePeckerwood posted:

A lot of these films weren't widely available (in some cases at all) over here until now, so I really have a hard time nitpicking about poo poo I'd only ever seen low quality rips of before.

I would probably argue that the less available a film is, the more valuable film preservation would be, rather than the other way around? But I'm glad you're happy.

John Romero
Jul 6, 2003

You'll taste it.


I love my box set. Would never have watched as tears go by otherwise

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

And I'm only saying this because I care.

There are a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing.




Fun Shoe

Guess I'll hold onto this guy for a bit longer

Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011



Another Wong Box crime is not including the Jeffrey Lau films that kept Wong Kar Wai's disaster productions afloat. Arguably more important than any Wong Box film, which just goes to show what kind of friend Wong Kar Wai is


Eagle Shooting Heroes(1993) the most insane talented film crew ever assembled to make the dumbest film possible. Has Sammo Hung doing the action choreography and even played as a joke it's legit better than anything made in Hollywood. Also has Tony Leung best performance of his career and operating at 500%


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS2GuvRdl5c

Fun fact: The story and characters of this film are the exact same ones as Ashes of Time. Tony Leung here is playing Ouyang Feng, Leslie Cheung's character from that film


Chinese Odyssey 2002 which has Faye Wong and Tony Leung singing about getting drunk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwBEMxsjbpM


Both films are on the Criterion Channel, but unfortunately the Chinese Odyssey one is the mandarin cut which is edited and got rid of all the weird songs.(I also think the Eagle Shooting Heroes version is also edited but I can't remember, and I no longer have access to the CC)

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

And I'm only saying this because I care.

There are a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing.




Fun Shoe

Oh yeah both of those are great! I had tix to see Eagle Shooting Heroes at TIFF but the print didn't arrive from HK on time

FancyMike
May 7, 2007



Even edited, the version of Chinese Odyssey 2002 on Criterion Channel is great and even got me to tear up a bit at the end. His (unrelated to 2002) 1995 Chinese Odyssey films with Stephen Chow are also great and feature some very funny wkw parody jokes.

Also, while weíre on Wong related filmmakers itíd be nice to see Patrick Tam get some attention. I watched My Heart is That Eternal Rose recently and loved it. And it would be really great to see a restored Love Massacre with legible subs.

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Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011



Tam's Final Victory was written by WKW, so another Wong box miss, and was recently released on blu ray in HK. Hopefully more restorations are coming. I have that Love Massacre vhs rip but I keep putting it off in the hopes of a HD release.


Though if anyone is bringing Tam to the West it will probably be Eureka.

Nomad would be a good fit for Criterion.

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