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Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.



Well obviously, since Army of Shadows has no intentions of being enjoyable.

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smallmouth
Oct 1, 2009



Army of Shadows is one my faves. :(

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.



Don't get me wrong, it's an incredible film. But also as far away from a heroic tale of resistance as you can get. The story of inexperienced idealists who live in constant fear of being exposed, usually fail in their endeavors, and spend more time cleaning up mistakes or dealing with traitors than fighting Nazis. You can definitely tell Melville based it on his own experiences in the French Resistance. Every frame oozes paranoia and discomfort in a manner that you'd never see from a glossy epic about partisans like Hangmen Also Die! or Is Paris Burning?

Samuel Clemens fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Jul 26, 2021

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Picked up Deep Cover and Memories of Murder this weekend. I haven't watched Memories of Murder yet but I'm looking forward to it because I've only seen the movie once in pretty lackluster quality so this will basically be like new to me.

Deep Cover is an excellent release. Great movie, and the early 90's style really pops with the new transfer. I actually watched it back to back with Mann's Thief and Deep Cover definitely can stand side by side with a Mann film which is one of the highest compliments I can give it. And I'm always looking to add a great Jeff Goldblum performance to my collection.

smallmouth
Oct 1, 2009



I watched Manhunter the other day. If there were ever a movie that embodies the 80s--serial killer worship, the "good cop" who does all the bad things, the sparkling modern beachfront retirement home, the casual and inconsequential death of uniformed police... I detest serial killer worship, but I watched it because I like Michael Mann. It was an ok movie with his usual polish and style.

It was largely ruined for me by the gaping hole in the script. The whole premise of the movie is the FBI are racing against the waxing of the moon and the next serial. At one point they give a bunch of thinly veiled insults to a reporter to goad the killer (lol, small peen, probably gay, can't get it up, he's literally a mother fucker). As a result, the reporter is killed. No one cares--he was an rear end in a top hat anyhow. But the full moon time line is now completely hosed and any tension it produced is gone. Now they're just trying to catch a regular killer.

It was also pretty 80s that the killer really was a virgin wee-a-boo. He imagines his blind "girlfriend" making out with another man and decides to kill her instead of whatever family/audience he would have been stalking according the serial. The scene he imagines and the reveal it was just his jealousy is well done.

At the end the "good cop" who does all the bad things--instead of following orders or even taking a clean shot at the killer when he had it--charges through a window only to be sliced to ribbons by the killer, who now alerted to the police presence guns down three or four cops with a shotgun. But it's cool, he "saved" the girl. Except he didn't save her: the only reason the blind woman didn't die was because the killer was too busy gunning down generic cops. Nevermind the recklessness of the "good cop" cost at least three more lives than anticipated. Instant Hero™.

I can almost hear the police chief explaining to families, "They knew what they signed up for."

Ultimately it's a product of it's time, but in this regard it did not age well.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

The ending is drastically changed from the book, I suppose to cut down on the runtime, but the way it goes down in the book Graham pays a much heavier price for getting so close to the case.

In the book, the dentures Dollarhyde uses to bite the victims is paid off at the end by him using them to fool the police into thinking he dies in a fire. He then shows up at Graham's beach house and nearly kills him, Graham gets much more hosed up than what happens in the movie. So for his trouble he gets another lengthy hospital stay and rehab, plus now his family is forever traumatized.

The book ending is used in the later adaptation starring Ed Norton.

smallmouth
Oct 1, 2009



Basebf555 posted:

The ending is drastically changed from the book, I suppose to cut down on the runtime, but the way it goes down in the book Graham pays a much heavier price for getting so close to the case.

In the book, the dentures Dollarhyde uses to bite the victims is paid off at the end by him using them to fool the police into thinking he dies in a fire. He then shows up at Graham's beach house and nearly kills him, Graham gets much more hosed up than what happens in the movie. So for his trouble he gets another lengthy hospital stay and rehab, plus now his family is forever traumatized.

The book ending is used in the later adaptation starring Ed Norton.

That sounds much more "satisfying." I figured it didn't follow the book closely and made the usual movie making decisions at the cost of a good narrative.

I'm not sure I can stomach both Ed Norton and serial killer worship in the same movie.

VoodooXT
Feb 24, 2006
I want Tong Po! Give me Tong Po!

I wish they kept the extended ending where Graham goes to the house of the next planned victims to test himself to see if he got too much into Dolarhyde's mind.

BeanpolePeckerwood
May 4, 2004

how may i dook on this parade?



Pork Pro

Basebf555 posted:

Deep Cover is an excellent release. Great movie, and the early 90's style really pops with the new transfer. I actually watched it back to back with Mann's Thief and Deep Cover definitely can stand side by side with a Mann film which is one of the highest compliments I can give it. And I'm always looking to add a great Jeff Goldblum performance to my collection.

Ah drat, this has got me really pumped :hellyeah:

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment



Grimey Drawer

Deep Cover? More like Pretty Cover, cuz that artwork rules.

Wizchine
Sep 17, 2007

Television is the retina
of the mind's eye.


Basebf555 posted:

The ending is drastically changed from the book, I suppose to cut down on the runtime, but the way it goes down in the book Graham pays a much heavier price for getting so close to the case.

In the book, the dentures Dollarhyde uses to bite the victims is paid off at the end by him using them to fool the police into thinking he dies in a fire. He then shows up at Graham's beach house and nearly kills him, Graham gets much more hosed up than what happens in the movie. So for his trouble he gets another lengthy hospital stay and rehab, plus now his family is forever traumatized.

The book ending is used in the later adaptation starring Ed Norton.

I took a class at UCLA in the early 90's taught by the late Professor Albert Hutter titled Detective Fiction. The last assigned novel was Red Dragon, and as a treat we screened Manhunter and Michael Mann did a Q&A with us. He said he changed the ending because at that time just about every thriller had a psych! the killer isn't really dead yet climax and whereas he thought it worked well in the novel, the film audience would be expecting it.

I wrote a longer post about the Q&A ages ago which is in the archives somewhere, fwiw.

Wizchine fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Jul 27, 2021

BeanpolePeckerwood
May 4, 2004

how may i dook on this parade?



Pork Pro

Manhunter hasn't aged as well as some of the other Mann flicks but I still really enjoy it. Petersen feels like the definitive Will Graham, and Brian Cox as Lecter is incredible.

In terms of adaptation quality I think Manhunter hangs pretty well with Silence of the Lambs and the Hannibal tv series.

Alfred P. Pseudonym
May 29, 2006

And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss goes 8-8



Manhunter is probably my favorite Mann film, but I definitely like it more for the aesthetic than the plot.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

While I don't necessarily disagree with the statement that Manhunter hasn't "aged" as well as some other Mann films, I think that's exactly the reason why I love it and keep going back to it. It doesn't feel like a modern serial killer movie or crime thriller, it's totally representative of it's time and of Mann's style in the 80s.

smallmouth
Oct 1, 2009



I love the 80s aesthetic of Manhunter. And I did like it overall. I was just disappointed with the writing. There were a number of things like that. For instance he breaks his promise to his wife and almost puts her and his son in danger. No tension in the relationship or character development at all. These are just a list of events that the writer tells us happen. I realize they were probably following the book, but bleh. Will Graham’s wife is made of granite and steel.

I was just thinking how much time is spent actually in the lab showing the tech. Manhunter is like Top Gun or Spacecamp, but for the FBI.

Goth Odell Beckham
Apr 16, 2013



STROOONG AS I AMMMM

BeanpolePeckerwood
May 4, 2004

how may i dook on this parade?



Pork Pro

Miami Vice is def my favorite Mann film but I've watched Manhunter a dozen times and enjoyed it every time. There are certain shot/music juxtapositions in that film that stun me to this day.

smallmouth
Oct 1, 2009



I watched Rocks in My Pockets last night. It dwells on the story of the grandmother a bit, but tells about some fascinating historical and cultural stigmas and the resulting methods of dealing with mental illness. Near the end it has an incredibly frank and accurate sequence about the experience of depression--particularly functioning while enduring a full-blown episode. I suffer from MDD and can say it's accurate to my own experience. Overall it's very well done, and is a darkly humorous and revealing discussion of mental illness from someone who experiences it.

Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018



OK, one last trip to Barnes and Noble and I took a complete blindstab and got myself a double feature of The Mikado and Topsy Turvy. The only thing I know about Gilber and Sullivan is the scene in Star Trek Insurrection where Picard and Worf sing a Gilber and Sullivan song to reboot Data's brain. So this is new terriotry for me.

And with that I am seriously done with Criterions this sale. I bought so goddman many, it's doubtful I'll actually get them all watched by the time the fall sale starts.

smallmouth
Oct 1, 2009



Smithereens is like watching your turds circle the bowl as they go down to oblivion. Wren is entirely unlikeable, as is everyone else in the film. She's abusive and a habitual liar. Almost every interaction with others follows classic patterns of abusive behavior. She claims to have dreams, but never articulates them beyond being involved with a band in some way. She's not an instrumentalist or singer, nor does she practice. She spends her time doing "business"--plastering ambiguous Xerox posters of herself in a viral campaign for... something? Tragically Wren can really only latch onto Eric, who constantly lies to her and abuses her similarly.

Paul, the small town transplant, falls for Wren after one meeting and lingers the entire film for her--acting like a pouty child when she won't reciprocate. In a twist the sweet Paul finally escapes the swirling pull of everyone around him by taking advantage of the pimp and selling him his now broken down van. Wren finds the pimp's stable in the back of the van and walks away disgusted, only to be picked up by a persistent John in the final scene.

smallmouth fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Jul 29, 2021

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment



Grimey Drawer

Smithereens rules. Great soundtrack by The Feelies, a fascinating glimpse of a bygone era populated by reprehensible people, including a great performance by Richard Hell. Feels heavily influenced by Fellini's Nights of Cabiria, though I don't know how intentional that is. I love how unabashedly awful the main character is, and having been around a lot of local artists and musicians, that type is all too common. Weirdly prescient, too, cuz we're seeing that same destructive narcissistic personality grow rampant now that platforms like TikTok and YouTube are so easy to contribute to.

smallmouth
Oct 1, 2009



Franchescanado posted:

Smithereens rules. Great soundtrack by The Feelies, a fascinating glimpse of a bygone era populated by reprehensible people, including a great performance by Richard Hell. Feels heavily influenced by Fellini's Nights of Cabiria, though I don't know how intentional that is. I love how unabashedly awful the main character is, and having been around a lot of local artists and musicians, that type is all too common. Weirdly prescient, too, cuz we're seeing that same destructive narcissistic personality grow rampant now that platforms like TikTok and YouTube are so easy to contribute to.

Good points. I hadn’t thought of similarities to Nights. Although the main in Nights is actually a sympathetic character. Her go-lucky, almost slapstick dancing in the club with the actor killed me. Wren could be likeable if she had even a shred of care for anyone around her, but she just doesn’t. Her sister and brother-in-law are a pretty cynical portrayal of “normal” too.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment



Grimey Drawer

smallmouth posted:

Good points. I hadn’t thought of similarities to Nights. Although the main in Nights is actually a sympathetic character. Her go-lucky, almost slapstick dancing in the club with the actor killed me. Wren could be likeable if she had even a shred of care for anyone around her, but she just doesn’t. Her sister and brother-in-law are a pretty cynical portrayal of “normal” too.

Smithereens seems to think there is an authenticity to the people around Wren, even if she herself is a jerk. I felt that if she were to devout her time and energy into actual art, she could find authenticity in the expression, and her go-getter attitude could actually pay off. Maybe not through success, but with personal expression, value and pride. Instead, she just spends her time marketing herself and trying to sell herself to others. Like you said, she doesn't actually have anything to sell, other than a vague idea of a successful version of herself. Meanwhile, the people around her may be lovely, but they are at least creators or people doing something, rather than perpetuating a myth about themselves.

That's why the normies are a cynical portrayal too. The movie's saying "This also sucks". It leaves a lot of room for the viewer to figure out their definition of authenticity without necessarily providing a "good person" to fill in that blank.

I haven't seen it in a couple of years now. I watched it on CC and loved it. I might grab a copy before the sale ends. I should also dig into more Susan Seidelman films.

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.



Gripweed posted:

The only thing I know about Gilber and Sullivan is the scene in Star Trek Insurrection where Picard and Worf sing a Gilber and Sullivan song to reboot Data's brain. So this is new terriotry for me.

You've never seen Sideshow Bob sing the score from HMS Pinafore?

Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018



Samuel Clemens posted:

You've never seen Sideshow Bob sing the score from HMS Pinafore?

Oh yeah. That's two things I know about Gilber and Sullivan! Maybe this wasn't as uninformed a purchase as I thought.

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.



I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you recognise a fair bit of The Mikado despite never having seen it. As the most famous opera in the English language, it has been copied, referenced, and parodied near endlessly. Let us know how it goes.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



Franchescanado posted:

I haven't seen it in a couple of years now. I watched it on CC and loved it. I might grab a copy before the sale ends. I should also dig into more Susan Seidelman films.

Desperately Seeking Susan is equally great and not nearly as depressing.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment



Grimey Drawer

Uncle Boogeyman posted:

Desperately Seeking Susan is equally great and not nearly as depressing.

I've known this mostly as a "joke" title, cuz of how strange the actual title is, but this has been getting a lot of mentions and discussion lately, from podcasts and articles I've read. I'll check it out soon. It's not streaming anywhere, sadly.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



Franchescanado posted:

I've known this mostly as a "joke" title, cuz of how strange the actual title is, but this has been getting a lot of mentions and discussion lately, from podcasts and articles I've read. I'll check it out soon. It's not streaming anywhere, sadly.

It's almost like a comedy version of Persona or Single White Female. Lot going on in that movie.

Kart Barfunkel
Nov 10, 2009




Just wanted to chime in and say I finished World on a Wire and it completely fucks. Immaculate 70’s vibes, genuinely mind bending subject matter, and you can see the DNA of every other major science fiction classic despite them using just plastic chairs and suits. Full marks. Now I wanna rewatch Solaris.

smallmouth
Oct 1, 2009



Yeah WoaW is really good.

Arcella
Dec 16, 2013

Shiny and Chrome


Inspired by watching the Olympics I picked up Tokyo Olympiad. Just need to find some time next week to sit down and watch it.

I, Butthole
Jun 30, 2007

Begin the operations of the gas chambers, gas schools, gas universities, gas libraries, gas museums, gas dance halls, and gas threads, etcetera.
I DEMAND IT


Had to gently caress around with Amazon to order any relatively cheap Criterions, but ended up snagging The Lure and The Before Trilogy (and a cheap copy of The Killing of a Sacred Deer to round out my Yorgos BR collection). Will wait for DeepDiscount's 40% sale next.

Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018



It's the last day of the sale and I worried I hadn't gotten enough girl movies. So I got Woman on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown.

Alfred P. Pseudonym
May 29, 2006

And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss goes 8-8



Gripweed posted:

It's the last day of the sale and I worried I hadn't gotten enough girl movies. So I got Woman on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown.

That one is p good

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



make some gazpacho before you watch it

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.



That's good advice for any movie night really.

Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018



I watched Eating Raoul. The main chick is super hot and the movie seems to be largely an excuse to put her in a wide variety of outfits, so that's pretty cool. And some of the humor worked for me. But there was this very self-satisfied vibe to the humor that made a lot of it not work for me. Also the movie is crazy rapey. There is so goddamn much attempted rape in Eating Raoul. Not great.

I'm three movies into all the Criterions I bought during the sale, and no bangers yet. Bodes ill.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment



Grimey Drawer

My last batch for the B&N sale was:

Moonstruck
Being There
I Wanna Hold Your Hand
All That Jazz
The Exterminating Angel.


All new-to-me, blind buys. Big fan of Hal Ashby already. Interested in getting more into Bunuel (I got the Three By Bunuel set earlier this month). Interested in early Zemeckis (I Wanna Hold Your Hand also has some of his short films). And I grabbed All That Jazz for more Roy Scheider and to expand my knowledge of musicals. Moonstruck cuz Nic Cage loves the Opera, and I've been told recently it's a "perfect" movie, so we'll see.

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Zogo
Jul 29, 2003



Franchescanado posted:

Moonstruck
I Wanna Hold Your Hand

I want to watch both of these.

I've seen that slap scene from Moonstruck dozens of times but know anything else about it.

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