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sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk


PMush Perfect posted:

Ghost martyrs of the Sapphire Guard, attack!

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rocketrobot
Jul 11, 2003



I mean... aren't mummies basically sacred necromancy if the curse wasn't part of it?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It is time for your viscera to see the light of day!

Way back in AD&D 2e, there were a series of rule books published that explored various classes and races in detail beyond what was in the core rules. They did one for necromancers, and it's one of the more interesting ones (at least as far as I can remember). You can find a version online, but it would probably take some effort to make what's in there work under the current rule systems.

e: Wikipedia has a full list (scroll down to "Reference series optional rulebooks"). Some of these have undoubtedly been incorporated into the later editions to the extent that they work, but there's probably some interesting stuff there anyway if you can find them.

ultrafilter fucked around with this message at 20:12 on May 17, 2020

Cat Mattress
Jul 14, 2012

I don't find this sort of thing funny


Regalingualius posted:

Yeah, Ive tossed around ideas of a heroic necromancer character who actually acts super-respectfully to the dead he raises. Like, he explicitly asks their spirit for permission before he does it... Even when its in the middle of battle, and releases them afterwards unless they ask to stay. He also goes on the hunt for your bog-standard necromancers who are only doing it for selfish reasons, which he considers a perversion/heresy of the One True Way of it.

Guilded Age kinda had that with the dwarf mystic Gravedust. His whole deal is finding restless spirits and allowing them to move on -- which can be done by letting them empower his weapons when he fights the people the ghosts need revenge against.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012


Soiled Meat

rocketrobot posted:

I mean... aren't mummies basically sacred necromancy if the curse wasn't part of it?

Not as such. There are a lot of very interesting underexplored themes in Egyptian burial rites, like how many of their prayers were formulated as threats aimed at their gods (ie: give me a good spot in heaven or my son will tear down your temple and sacrifice cow poo poo to you), but I'm talking about "invoking the dead to benefit from their wisdom and supernatural protection", which is super common across world religions.

Pope Guilty
Nov 6, 2006

The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.

fool of sound posted:

Not as such. There are a lot of very interesting underexplored themes in Egyptian burial rites, like how many of their prayers were formulated as threats aimed at their gods (ie: give me a good spot in heaven or my son will tear down your temple and sacrifice cow poo poo to you)

This really seems like the proper stance to approach a god with.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT MY LOVE OF EUGENICS AND MARIO 3


College Slice

Pope Guilty posted:

This really seems like the proper stance to approach a god with.

Username checks out.

Cabbit
Jul 19, 2001

Is that everything you have?



Grimey Drawer

Pope Guilty posted:

This really seems like the proper stance to approach a god with.

You should read the Craft Sequence series of books.

rocketrobot
Jul 11, 2003



fool of sound posted:

Not as such. There are a lot of very interesting underexplored themes in Egyptian burial rites, like how many of their prayers were formulated as threats aimed at their gods (ie: give me a good spot in heaven or my son will tear down your temple and sacrifice cow poo poo to you)

Hahahaha what? That rules.

Satisfaction Guaranteed
Jan 17, 2001

Forum Veteran



Right now, can a fully rested team beat Xykon?

We're talking optimal conditions, all the right spells prepared and Xykon is alone.

ikanreed
Sep 25, 2009

Rise and shine, master leprechaun.




Satisfaction Guaranteed posted:

Right now, can a fully rested team beat Xykon?

We're talking optimal conditions, all the right spells prepared and Xykon is alone.

Depends on saves.

AnoHito
May 8, 2014



Satisfaction Guaranteed posted:

Right now, can a fully rested team beat Xykon?

We're talking optimal conditions, all the right spells prepared and Xykon is alone.

No, because its not the right time in the story for Xykon to die.

Maybe in a few dozen strips they could pull it off.

HisMajestyBOB
Oct 21, 2010


College Slice

I dunno, I'm getting the feeling that Xykon dies at the end of Act 1 of this book.

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011





Muldoon

I always felt that one reason for Roy fighting Durkon solo was to show that Roy's specialization in fighting undead spellcasters had paid off. Both that and the dream sequence in the pyramid happened because there won't be a one-on-one fight between Roy and Xykon, and Xykon is a fair bit stronger than vampire Durkon was, but it'd be a lot more evenly matched than their relative power levels would suggest. Xykon alone vs. the Order would definitely end in the Order winning at this point.

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually

Zulily Zoetrope posted:

Xykon alone vs. the Order would definitely end in the Order winning at this point.
Yeah, the Order has a lot of high-level spell slots and some decent gear. The outcome would depend on 1) how many big spells they expend before meeting Xykon, 2) other factions sticking their oars in (the IFCC, whoever the invisible watchers are, etc.), and 3) the universe-binding rules of dramatic integrity that the OOTS setting is subject to.

AnoHito
May 8, 2014



I think people might be underestimating Xykon. For all we know, hes hiding a perfect counter to their plans up his sleeve. I definitely wouldnt put it past him to, for example, have an answer to the spellsplinter maneuver (or really anything that would prevent him casting). Weve really barely ever seen him get remotely serious in a fight, and hes a class/level that in 3.5 D&D might as well make him a god for all the poo poo he could potentially do.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT MY LOVE OF EUGENICS AND MARIO 3


College Slice

I feel like something is missing before Xykon decisively loses, it won't be from a straight up fight, but as the culmination of hundreds of character decisions up until this point. Some elements are in place, and probably relates to Redcloak, the Monster in the Darkness, but something is still missing.

Gnoman
Feb 11, 2014


There's a real possibility that Xykon gets taken with relative ease, wrecking The Plan and forcing Redcloak into retreat. The rest of the book would be attempting to sway Redcloak to Thor's Finally Fix This Plan, possibly complicated by an angry Xykon that regenerated in Redcloak's storeroem instead of the astral fortress he expected.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT MY LOVE OF EUGENICS AND MARIO 3


College Slice

There's something funny about the thought of Redcloak retreating to become a Luke Skywalker style hermit using hit and run attacks to keep fighting a war that was lost 30 years ago like some of the Japanese soldiers that didn't get the memo that the war was lost.

ikanreed
Sep 25, 2009

Rise and shine, master leprechaun.




I just realized, zykon and Roy's life motives are pretty similar. They've got something to prove against wizards

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011





Muldoon

If there is to be a big confrontation, Xykon's downfall would definitely come from underestimating Roy. We've seen that he has contingencies in place for Redcloak and the MitD's sudden yet inevitable betrayal, and he definitely has many more in place, perhaps extending as far as outside parties like the Fiends making a move against him. He doesn't even recognize the name Greenhilt or bother to try killing the Order when Girard's Gate blew, so I very much doubt he has a plan for dealing with Roy that goes past "he's a non-epic non-caster, why would he be a threat?"

Random Stranger
Nov 27, 2009



AnoHito posted:

I think people might be underestimating Xykon. For all we know, hes hiding a perfect counter to their plans up his sleeve. I definitely wouldnt put it past him to, for example, have an answer to the spellsplinter maneuver (or really anything that would prevent him casting). Weve really barely ever seen him get remotely serious in a fight, and hes a class/level that in 3.5 D&D might as well make him a god for all the poo poo he could potentially do.

The positive side of things for the Order is that Xykon knows how to do exactly one thing: overwhelming force. He's got a lot of it, so it'll work against just about everyone, but he's predictable and the order has seen his tricks. And the paladins will likely be joining in the final assault once they come back from where ever they are right now. So eight high level adventurers plus one low-mid level cleric who have had time to plan and prepare, know a good tactical approach, and he doesn't know they're coming. If things were a straight up fight, Xykon is in for a hurting.

There's a whole Chekov's arsenal out there, however. Between the fiends, the monster in the dark, Redcloak's everything, Xykon's astral fortress, and who knows what else, the plan is definitely going to break down. My wild rear end guess is the Order kicks Xykon's rear end, Redcloak backstabs and deals with the MitD, but it slips what's really going on and Xykon contingencies away to the fortress swearing that he's going to burn the world down just for fun and watch it from his recliner before getting his kicks in whatever new world arises. Then the team has to split up with one half chasing down a weakened but not beaten Xykon who'll be back after refreshing his spells to nuke the gate and the other half trying to negotiate a divine truce and reinforce the gate.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


Raenir Salazar posted:

There's something funny about the thought of Redcloak retreating to become a Luke Skywalker style hermit using hit and run attacks to keep fighting a war that was lost 30 years ago like some of the Japanese soldiers that didn't get the memo that the war was lost.

Just for the record, those Japanese soldiers did get the memo, but they thought the memo was enemy propaganda.

Which might perhaps be relevant to Redcloak's state of mind too.

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009



Fallen Rib

It's Elan. Elan will finally defeat Xykon and earn the admiration of Roy. That is his happy ending!

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.

Nenonen posted:

It's Elan. Elan will finally defeat Xykon and earn the admiration of Roy. That is his happy ending!

Elan will yell out "No kicks!" for some reason and end up defeating Xykon by saying the opposite of his name.

TheAceOfLungs
Aug 4, 2010


nimby posted:

Elan will yell out "No kicks!" for some reason and end up defeating Xykon by saying the opposite of his name.

No, no, no! It only works if they trick Xykon into saying it himself!

wdarkk
Oct 26, 2007

Friends: Protected
World: Saved
Crablettes: Eaten


Xykon will repeat what Elan said out of confusion.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


wdarkk posted:

Xykon will repeat what Elan said out of confusion.

Is it established that him saying his name backwards will be his undoing or is this a Mxyzptlk joke?

VanSandman
Feb 16, 2011
SWAP.AVI EXCHANGER

Absurd Alhazred posted:

Is it established that him saying his name backwards will be his undoing or is this a Mxyzptlk joke?

The 2nd option.

The Question IRL
Jun 8, 2013

Only two contestants left! Here is Doom's chance for revenge...


Pope Guilty posted:

This really seems like the proper stance to approach a god with.

Give me some inner peace, or I'll mop the floor with you!

sfwarlock
Aug 11, 2007


The Question IRL posted:

Give me some inner peace, or I'll mop the floor with you!

Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Tie Kwon Leep. Approach me, that you might see.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


ikanreed posted:

I just realized, zykon and Roy's life motives are pretty similar. They've got something to prove against wizards

How do people still spell his name wrong!!!

dmboogie
Oct 4, 2013



xylokon

DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

To become the moon
Then all the world will be in sight!



Ripper Swarm
Sep 9, 2009

It's not that I hate it. It's that I loathe it.

Cuntellectual posted:

How do people still spell his name wrong!!!

You can't blame people for not paying much attention to Sub-Boss Zykler

PMush Perfect
Sep 30, 2009

MY PAPER SOLDIERS
FORM A WALL
FIVE PACES THICK
AND TWICE AS TALL




Big bad Xylophone, and his head minion Redglare.

goblin week
Jan 26, 2019




Xykons outer cells are also not living. Makes you think

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.

goblin week posted:

Xykon’s outer cells are also not living. Makes you think

Nor are his inner cells.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

nimby posted:

Nor are his inner cells.

They're not not unliving though. Makes you think

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ikanreed
Sep 25, 2009

Rise and shine, master leprechaun.




Cuntellectual posted:

How do people still spell his name wrong!!!

In my defense I was really up my own rear end about my clever idea at the time

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