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Toplowtech
Aug 31, 2004



Ponsonby Britt posted:

I dunno, what if Serini's invisible partner is Darkseid? It would explain why she's so accepting about the world literally being dominated by anti-life.


Is his sofa legendary or just really rare? Or is it artifact level?

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Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012



Toplowtech posted:

Is his sofa legendary or just really rare? Or is it artifact level?

He doesn't have a sofa. That's why he uses other people's.

TheAceOfLungs
Aug 4, 2010


Schwarzwald posted:

I don't think having your mind altered to be obedient is "freedom," exactly.

I was thinking about his crippling sunk-cost fallacy if he doesn't remember sinking any costs; he would be free to approach the situation with fresh eyes instead of being chained to a course of action that he may not even want anymore. Amnesia (by itself) wouldn't compel obedience; but it would clear out the obstacles that prevent a truly free choice.

Rogue AI Goddess
May 10, 2012

I enjoy the sight of humans on their knees.
That was a joke... unless..?


World Famous W posted:

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose
Nod, get treat.

karmicknight
Aug 21, 2011


EEEEEEEY YO

Rogue AI Goddess posted:

Nod, get treat.

Greyview and Oona are such fun characters that I'm kind of sad they are being introduced so late in the narrative.

Regalingualius
Jan 6, 2012


TheAceOfLungs posted:

I was thinking about his crippling sunk-cost fallacy if he doesn't remember sinking any costs; he would be free to approach the situation with fresh eyes instead of being chained to a course of action that he may not even want anymore. Amnesia (by itself) wouldn't compel obedience; but it would clear out the obstacles that prevent a truly free choice.

And then just as heís about to finally agree to team up against Xykon, something or someone comes along that jogs his memory and he veers back towards the Plan again...

Or heís forced to confront the conclusions that he came to during the time where he lost those parts of his memory, and finally realizes that he can learn to let go of the guilt heís been burdening himself with, or something along those lines, and accept that not every death or sacrifice in pursuit of a cause is always going to pan out.

Phenotype
Jul 24, 2007

You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance.



I hope Rich is ok...

Jeez, I'm gonna be a wreck once the next battle scene starts. The wait between updates is killing me now that it feels like we're getting to a climax with Xykon and Redcloak (or possibly Serini).

Doesn't the amnesia potion thing seem pretty shortsighted for an epic rogue? I'm not sure what the plan is exactly, but it feels like, even if she gets everyone there with the potion and makes them forget about the gates, there are still other people that will remind them what they were supposed to be doing. Can you reverse the effects of an amnesia potion with Dispel or something?

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

Thank U for reading

If you hated it...
FUCK U and never come back


Phenotype posted:

I hope Rich is ok...

Jeez, I'm gonna be a wreck once the next battle scene starts. The wait between updates is killing me now that it feels like we're getting to a climax with Xykon and Redcloak (or possibly Serini).

Doesn't the amnesia potion thing seem pretty shortsighted for an epic rogue? I'm not sure what the plan is exactly, but it feels like, even if she gets everyone there with the potion and makes them forget about the gates, there are still other people that will remind them what they were supposed to be doing. Can you reverse the effects of an amnesia potion with Dispel or something?

The point of the amnesia potion wasn't to make them forget about the gates entirely - it was to convince them that they didn't find the gate in that location and therefore must look elsewhere.

She said that the effect would be that "you'll forget ever seeing me or this place, and you'll report back to your boss that you looked high and low and couldn't find anything".

In other words, it wouldn't entirely wipe their memories of everything to do with the gate, or wipe away months of character progress. It'd just muddle their memories of finding and monitoring the gate, allowing her to misdirect them into searching away from the Gate in basically the same way that the very final defense on Girard's Gate tried to do.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.





She's epic level and not a PC. She can make her potions do whatever she wants, she's been at it long enough. It's clearly worked well enough so far.

Gwyneth Palpate
Jun 7, 2010

Do you want your breadcrumbs highlighted?

~SMcD



nimby posted:

She's epic level and not a PC. She can make her potions do whatever she wants, she's been at it long enough. It's clearly worked well enough so far.

It's funny, because normally you need to know a requisite spell to craft a potion that does the same thing. The only spell that resembles the effect she describes is Modify Memory. Does this mean Serini has 10 levels in Bard?

(obviously plot > rulebook but it's fun to try and fit the story into the rules sometimes)

Mystic Mongol
Jan 5, 2007

Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.



College Slice

Gwyneth Palpate posted:

It's funny, because normally you need to know a requisite spell to craft a potion that does the same thing. The only spell that resembles the effect she describes is Modify Memory. Does this mean Serini has 10 levels in Bard?

As someone who asks these questions constantly, this is exactly what was wrong with 3E D&D.

ikanreed
Sep 25, 2009

Rise and shine, master leprechaun.





Creating magic items should not require knowing how to cast a spell and I don't think they fixed that in later editions

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


I can see where that logic is for magic items just from a gameplay mechanics standpoint it's a simple way for a dungeon master to keep player characters from beelining for bags of holding or what have you. But potions should definitely be an exception to that rule imo and of course here story concerns are way more important.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...



Gwyneth Palpate posted:

It's funny, because normally you need to know a requisite spell to craft a potion that does the same thing. The only spell that resembles the effect she describes is Modify Memory. Does this mean Serini has 10 levels in Bard?

(obviously plot > rulebook but it's fun to try and fit the story into the rules sometimes)

I am 90% sure that pot she's using is meant to be some Homebrewed magic item to allow making potions as a not spellcaster.

Noah
May 31, 2011

Come at me baby bitch


The amnesia potion doesn't matter. It's either narratively important, and then that's bad and therefore doesn't matter. Or its not narratively important, which in case it doesn't matter.

Gwyneth Palpate
Jun 7, 2010

Do you want your breadcrumbs highlighted?

~SMcD



Dr Pepper posted:

I am 90% sure that pot she's using is meant to be some Homebrewed magic item to allow making potions as a not spellcaster.

Well, duh, she's brewing it at home.

Gwyneth Palpate
Jun 7, 2010

Do you want your breadcrumbs highlighted?

~SMcD



Rich status: okay

#1231: Technically Still Changes Minds

e X
Feb 23, 2013

cool but crude



Is that world a reference to something?

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.





e X posted:

Is that world a reference to something?

I'm guessing a reference to Discworld.

"Terry Pratchett's Men at Arms posted:

Retrophrenology:
It works like this. Phrenology, as everyone knows, is a way of reading someone's character, aptitude and abilities by examining the bumps and hollows on their head. Therefore - according to the kind of logical thinking that characterizes the Ankh-Morpork mind - it should be possible to mould someone's character by giving them carefully graded bumps in all the right places. You can go into a shop and order an artistic temperament with a tendency to introspection and a side order of hysteria. What you actually get is hit on the head with a selection of different size mallets, but it creates employment and keeps the money in circulation, and that's the main thing.

goblin week
Jan 26, 2019



e X posted:

Is that world a reference to something?

the world of my meat

i beat it and it changes my mind

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!



When all you have is a nail...

Nale?

Cup Runneth Over
Aug 8, 2009

She said life's
too short to worry
She said life's
too long to wait
It's too short not
to love everybody
Life's too long to hate





We ain't got a Nale anymore

LashLightning
Feb 20, 2010

You know you didn't have to go post that, right?
But it's fine, I guess...

You just keep being you!



e X posted:

Is that world a reference to something?

I don't know if it's a reference to versions of the game where "intimidation", as a skill, existed. Or maybe it's a ref to some sort of Toon thing, from Steve Jackson Games? Or it's just a funny thing in itself, expanding from calling Gunboat Diplomacy "Warhammer Diplomacy" instead.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017




I've suspected for a while that Odin isn't actually as addled as he seems (cue Shojo's theme) and is actually giving direct advice but speaking in scrambled sentences. "When all you have is a nail, every solution starts to look like a hammer" seems to me to be pretty direct advice to Durkon to reconsider his approach.

To wit, if you have a nail, you'd figure "I should use solution X to pound it into place" but perhaps solution X is actually a solution, you just don't use it to pound the nail into place.

In fact the very next panel has Durkon saying "Ye cannae truly change someone's mind by hittin' 'em."

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!



Cup Runneth Over posted:

We ain't got a Nale anymore

But does Redcloak know that? If Elan walks up to him wearing a fake goatee...

I'm assuming Redcloak knows who Nale is because team evil originally hired them way back at the beginning.

Johnny Aztec
Jan 29, 2005


ConfusedUs posted:

But does Redcloak know that? If Elan walks up to him wearing a fake goatee...

I'm assuming Redcloak knows who Nale is because team evil originally hired them way back at the beginning.


You really think Redcloak cares enough to remember some human cannon fodder?

killerwhat
May 13, 2010


Thorís ringtone is Canít touch this - Hammer time

Ugly John
Jul 18, 2009


killerwhat posted:

Thorís ringtone is Canít touch this - Hammer time

Not just that - that's Thor's ringtone *for Durkon*. He set a special one so that he wouldn't miss his calls!

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

No way...


College Slice

ConfusedUs posted:

When all you have is a nail...

Nale?

I'm not sure if Durkon can hear Odin's words, but if he can I'm not sure he's going to repeat verbatim everything.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


Johnny Aztec posted:

You really think Redcloak cares enough to remember some human cannon fodder?

He might pretend he doesn't but Redcloak is an intensely detail oriented person.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

No way...


College Slice

reignofevil posted:

He might pretend he doesn't but Redcloak is an intensely detail oriented person.

He did forget the exact significance as to why Greenhilt is the larger threat than the Paladins. He doesn't remember everything, but more a vague gist. However I'm not sure if this could help because its a huge risk to try again with Xykon around, two clerics have a lot easier time escaping from Xykon than a bard.

Johnny Aztec
Jan 29, 2005


reignofevil posted:

He might pretend he doesn't but Redcloak is an intensely detail oriented person.

I mean, what is Nale to redcloak? A mercenary team they hired to find Dourkan's talisman.

He is just going to see: A Human where there shouldn't be any humans, and/or The Bard in a lovely disguise. Nale meant nothing, and means nothing to Redcloak.




also, if only Elan had some more Potions of Bluff around,to give to Haley, we could have had this fixed already.

Wonder how high a DC it'd take to convince a hostile Redcloak.

AnoHito
May 8, 2014



Raenir Salazar posted:

He did forget the exact significance as to why Greenhilt is the larger threat than the Paladins.

I mean, MitD's logic was sound. From their perspective, the paladins do seem like a bigger threat even given all the information about Roy.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

Thank U for reading

If you hated it...
FUCK U and never come back


Cup Runneth Over posted:

We ain't got a Nale anymore

Come to think of it, this is very relevant here, in that it led to a very pissed-off Sabine. Who's off on mystery business related to a separate evil plot, which will pretty much have to show up soon since there's not much story left. And about the only thing we know about that evil plot so far is that it involves engineering the destruction of the Gates - something that both Redcloak and Serini absolutely oppose at all costs.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007






Rich made a comment in book 1 about how Sabine and Haley are opposites in a way that wasn't so obvious. If that's going to come in to play--and how could it not?--then it's going to be soon.

Cup Runneth Over
Aug 8, 2009

She said life's
too short to worry
She said life's
too long to wait
It's too short not
to love everybody
Life's too long to hate





LashLightning posted:

I don't know if it's a reference to versions of the game where "intimidation", as a skill, existed. Or maybe it's a ref to some sort of Toon thing, from Steve Jackson Games? Or it's just a funny thing in itself, expanding from calling Gunboat Diplomacy "Warhammer Diplomacy" instead.

I think it's both the first and last of those, at the very least

Who What Now
Sep 10, 2006

In the cheery brightness of the 41st millennium there is only CHRISTMAS SPIRIT!


LashLightning posted:

I don't know if it's a reference to versions of the game where "intimidation", as a skill, existed.

That'd be weird considering that the version they're in is one of those versions.

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011






Muldoon

ultrafilter posted:

Rich made a comment in book 1 about how Sabine and Haley are opposites in a way that wasn't so obvious. If that's going to come in to play--and how could it not?--then it's going to be soon.

I think he answered in a Q&A that it referred to their loyalties. Haley pretended to be a licensed member of the thieves' guild but was actually a free agent, and Sabine pretended to be a free agent but was actually working for the IFCC.

Gnoman
Feb 11, 2014

"What we therefore hath joined together, let Gnoman put asunder..."


nimby posted:

I'm guessing a reference to Discworld.

Pretty sure it isn't, because Rich hasn't read Discworld. Not only that, but he actively avoids reading it because he doesn't want to be influenced.

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MarquiseMindfang
Jan 6, 2013


Pretty sure Odin's remark there is about Redcloak's state of mind.

The nail is Redcloak's grievance and his mission - in the original cliche, "nails" are problems. Every solution looks like a hammer meaning that every solution seems bad to him, because having the nail is more important to him than... I guess the overall carpentry project in this metaphor. Allowing any of the hammers to hit the nail might be good for the stability of the project, but it does mean you have to give up the nail. And the nail... is all he has. His entire life, right down to his name itself, has been about The Plan. He can't give it up.

Or I'm reading way too much into it.

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