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Cabbit posted:Any tier chart that doesn't put psions on the same level as wizards has a tier stratification that is way, way too narrow. The gulf between psion and wizard is so short you could skip over it, compared to actual second tier classes. Tier 1 and Tier 2 in the common 3.5 usage are almost exactly as powerful, its just one of them is far more versatile. Sorcerers and Psions can do almost all the poo poo Wizards can do, but any given Sorcerer or Psion is permanently limited to a small subset of that while a Wizard can literally change up his entire spell list every day. And know every spell ever invented. Wizards, Clerics, Druids, Artificers, and Archivists are tier 1 because they can do everything and change up what they can do if they ever happen to run into a situation that requires specific bullshit. Socerers, Psions et al. are going to be more generalized as a rule because they can't adapt day to day which makes them more inflexible and weaker. Perfect example? That trap Nale set up for Malack. If Zz'drit was a Sorcerer and Dispel Magic wasn't one of his spells known? And considering just how many other good spells there are at that spell level that are useful in more situations? Too loving bad, do not pass go do not collect 200 dollars. As a Wizard though he can tailor his spells every day which is incredibly powerful. Zore fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Aug 18, 2013 |
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Aug 18, 2013 08:33
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| # ? Apr 29, 2024 17:41 |
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"Don't worry. You'll keep me safe."
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Aug 18, 2013 09:24
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What exactly are the class tiers? I assume fighters are in the lowest?
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Aug 18, 2013 10:11
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Nale appears to have fudged the truth with regards to the pyramid - possibly he also fudged the bit about Malack.
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Aug 18, 2013 10:17
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I think that is where the psion comes in. And also where Tarquin kills his son.
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Aug 18, 2013 10:21
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Affi posted:I think that is where the psion comes in. And also where Tarquin kills his son. I think you are right. Nale has failed Tarquin for the last time and Haley is there for 'family business' because Tarquin is settling the issue of inheritance.
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Aug 18, 2013 10:36
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Pope Guilty posted:What exactly are the class tiers? I assume fighters are in the lowest? Not really, this link has what I think is the most common definition/list that's floating around. I think it even lists all the base classes from the splatbooks except for some Psionic and Incarnum stuff (which is cool but ridiculously obscure) http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=bc18425e5fa73d30e4a9a54889edf44e&topic=5293 Alchenar posted:I think you are right. Nale has failed Tarquin for the last time and Haley is there for 'family business' because Tarquin is settling the issue of inheritance. Oh yeah, Nale is totally screwed here. Though I have a weird feeling that Thog might be popping back up to save him/salvage his corpse if he dies. Something about how he's been unresolved is bothering me.
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Aug 18, 2013 10:40
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Alchenar posted:I think you are right. Nale has failed Tarquin for the last time and Haley is there for 'family business' because Tarquin is settling the issue of inheritance. That can't be everything, though. I don't think Tarquin brought out the entire army to seize the gate, or just to have a dinosaur-riding army help him with a dramatic reveal. I think he's got a different motive for mobilizing this many army mans. However, this provides an opportunity. Could this be where Elan puts his plan into action and deals with Tarquin once and for all? Or will Tarquin remain a threat going into the next chapter (perhaps his army and evil adventuring party playing a major role in the fight for the last gate)? I have a feeling that the Order of the Stick is going to end up going through the rift here, though. Then we'll be able to start figuring out what's really going on with the gates. Meanwhile, Nale definitely wants to usurp control of the empire, probably by offing Tarquin. I don't see how he could do it at this point, though, especially with a high level psion right there. And I don't see Burlew killing of Nale just yet.
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Aug 18, 2013 10:46
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Cabbit posted:I mean, if psions are tier 2, then tier 1 must just be a picture of a wizard stomping on the face of humanity, forever.
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Aug 18, 2013 10:55
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Uranium Phoenix posted:That can't be everything, though. I don't think Tarquin brought out the entire army to seize the gate, or just to have a dinosaur-riding army help him with a dramatic reveal. I think he's got a different motive for mobilizing this many army mans. How many strips is it now that Burlew has maintained this OMGWTFISGONNAHAPPEN tension, while still reeling off big story beats? 12? 13? I'm betting he spent all that hand-rehab time alternately frowning and giggling as he came up with this stuff. Edit: and no way Tarquin's story ends here.
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Aug 18, 2013 10:58
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Tarquin is probably going to confront Elan about not being the leader and not actually being all that useful in the pyramid fight. After that it's a toss up on how Tarquin decides to motivate Elan to be better attempt to kill all or some of the order or kill Nale. I hope it's Nale because he's a boring midboss that's outlived his niche and Nale dying with his story unresolved and plot hooks dangling would make him a better motivator to Elan and Tarquin should know that.
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Aug 18, 2013 11:06
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So psions are different now? I remember reading a psion psourcebook for 2E back when I was a kid and it didn't read as alternative-sorcerors. Instead they had a weird set of powes that weren't covered by other casters. A ton of mental combat stuff, for exwmple, but also mind over matter to give them freaky control over their own bodies, like making themselves stretchy. There was even a very costly body-switching spell. Any of that in 4E psychic stuff?
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Aug 18, 2013 11:44
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Uranium Phoenix posted:I don't see how he could do it at this point, though, especially with a high level psion right there. And I don't see Burlew killing of Nale just yet. And that's just why it might happen. He hasn't really been the one for predictable storylines, why would he change now? Killing off Durkon, Malack and Z in short order came out of the left field already.
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Aug 18, 2013 11:51
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Is it possible to take a piece of someone - say, some hair or blood or something - whilst they're alive and keep it safe and use it to resurrect them later if they die?
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Aug 18, 2013 11:57
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MikeJF posted:Is it possible to take a piece of someone - say, some hair or blood or something - whilst they're alive and keep it safe and use it to resurrect them later if they die? Resurrection description posted:the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death. Somebody thought of it.
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Aug 18, 2013 12:02
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NihilCredo posted:Somebody thought of it. Which is good, because I like my D&D and my Eclipse Phase separate, thank you very much.
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Aug 18, 2013 12:10
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Speedball posted:So psions are different now? I remember reading a psion psourcebook for 2E back when I was a kid and it didn't read as alternative-sorcerors. Instead they had a weird set of powes that weren't covered by other casters. A ton of mental combat stuff, for exwmple, but also mind over matter to give them freaky control over their own bodies, like making themselves stretchy. There was even a very costly body-switching spell. Any of that in 4E psychic stuff? 2e psions were wacky lunatics with powers that barely interacted with the rest of the rules. If you weren't psionic you often had no defense against their abilities at all (so a level 1 psion could dominate, say, an ancient red dragon) and powers didn't have levels. 3e psions had six schools, each one of which was based off of a different primary attribute. Shapers were casters based off of intelligence, nomads were casters based off of dex, and so on. This was terrible because it meant your powers all had different saving throws, but kind of cool in that you could make a troll psion with the ability to double regenerate and grow sword arms or turn his skin to stone. 3.5e were covered. 4e psions brought down the number of PSP from hundreds to maybe a handful, and mostly had encounter powers, which they could situationally improve to daily equivalents by spending a number of recharging power points on use. It was a cool idea, but in practice it meant you'd just use your level 1 powers (with really low power costs) and at higher levels you'd essentially be spamming dailies every round every fight.
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Aug 18, 2013 12:10
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NihilCredo posted:Somebody thought of it.
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Aug 18, 2013 13:14
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I remember being sad that the AD&D 2 Create Water spell specified that you couldn't cause the water to appear inside somebody. Was an instant death spell at level 1 so much to ask?
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Aug 18, 2013 13:18
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Maybe Tarquin plans to march through that gate with that army?
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Aug 18, 2013 15:37
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Pope Guilty posted:I remember being sad that the AD&D 2 Create Water spell specified that you couldn't cause the water to appear inside somebody. Was an instant death spell at level 1 so much to ask? Well, how much water did it conjure? Because if you, say, managed to get your target into a pit deep enough...
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Aug 18, 2013 15:44
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Pope Guilty posted:I remember being sad that the AD&D 2 Create Water spell specified that you couldn't cause the water to appear inside somebody. Was an instant death spell at level 1 so much to ask? Well the obvious thing to do is create the water five kilometers above their head and kill them with a ballistic hailstone, but I expect the spell also has a range limit.
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Aug 18, 2013 15:59
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I'm imagining using Create Water with Still Spell in Wizard School to ruin other students' homework.
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Aug 18, 2013 16:01
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Pope Guilty posted:I'm imagining using Create Water with Still Spell in Wizard School to ruin other students' homework. In the abbey. Create Water is a divine spell.
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Aug 18, 2013 16:15
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Pope Guilty posted:I'm imagining using Create Water with Still Spell in Wizard School to ruin other students' homework. There's always prestidigitation to deal with wet homework.
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Aug 18, 2013 16:29
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Umbra Dubium posted:Well the obvious thing to do is create the water five kilometers above their head and kill them with a ballistic hailstone, but I expect the spell also has a range limit. That trick, plus about 12 scrolls of Wall of Steel was how my group stopped a ratman army once. Pope Guilty posted:What exactly are the class tiers? I assume fighters are in the lowest? All I know is that Magneto and Akuma are god tier and Cable isn't much lower.
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Aug 18, 2013 16:37
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ikanreed posted:Psions? Is rich trying to use rules no one knows or cares about now? But seriously, I never really got past core rulebooks, what's the general deal with psions? Mages by another name? Other people have gone over how Psionics work, but I also wanted to point that Psionics aren't an obscure rule set from a splat book nobody uses, it's considered part of the core rules along with the PHB, DMG, and MM, and is even included in the online SRD.
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Aug 18, 2013 17:15
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The Princess of Verona posted:Now I will return to my totally sweet throne room and contemplate how bitchin' rad I am. Answer: YES! I have to wonder if ConfusedUs used this in one of his games or not. It really seems like you would have 
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Aug 18, 2013 17:24
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People have their own tiers but the generally accepted list is something like this. Tier 1: Cleric. Druid, Wizard: Godlike power and more or less able to reshape reality at a whim Tier 1.5: Sorcerer, Favoured Soul Psion: Nearly as powerful but not quite as flexible. Tier 2: Bard: Has some flexibility but isn't as powerful as the big boys. Tier 3: Barbarian, Rogue, Ranger,Warlock: Has a niche where it's pretty drat good but totally outclassed outside that niche. Tier 4: Fighter, Monk, Paladin: Not totally awful but there are other classes that can do their job better than they can. Tier 5: Commoner,Warrior,Aristocrat: Dead to the average housecat. Ferrosol fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Aug 18, 2013 |
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Aug 18, 2013 17:32
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Tier 7: Samurai and Truenamer; have niches that their abilities actively work against.
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Aug 18, 2013 17:37
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sansuki posted:I have to wonder if ConfusedUs used this in one of his games or not. It really seems like you would have Powerful NPCs with inflated egos are a favorite trope of mine, but I don't think I have ever quite used that turn of phrase.
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Aug 18, 2013 17:41
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Do psions still recover PSPs continuously like they did in 2E? That always seemed like it would be a hassle to track in a pen and paper game. For those who missed the 2E Psionics Handbook,code:
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Aug 18, 2013 17:56
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^^ 3.X psions had PP as a daily resource, 4e psions have it as an encounter resource. They don't refresh per hour/turn anymore.Mystic Mongol posted:
They had at-will powers that they'd boost with PPs to be the equivalent of encounter powers, not encounter powers that acted like dailies. Spamming the equivalent of an encounter power that scales with level is still a problem, though. The psion class was particularly bad, in that 2 of the best spamming powers (one that dropped an enemy's defenses and one that dropped several enemy's attack bonuses) were at first level, meaning that an optimal psion was probably using the same two powers for 30 levels, with only their dailies and utilities making a major difference in how they played. Battleminds picked up their best powers at 7th and 13th, and I'm not sure about ardents.
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Aug 18, 2013 18:19
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My money's on Nale dying, since 'family business', and Tarquin makes a better final antagonist for Elan's plot arc without losing anything Nale imparted to it - he's really just a better continuation. If the Order gets the "murdered in a pit" treatment (which they might, since Tarquin specifically asked Haley to get out of the pit too), V will reappear just in time to save them. I know Tarquin's an evil psychotic who's mostly in for his legacy and a life of power and success, but I wonder what he really wants from Elan besides perhaps overthrowing him one day to make a great story. Does he want Elan to be a hero (thus enhancing his fame in the process)? Does he want him to come over to his way of thinking and become an evil overlord too? Elan and his family seem to have issues with getting validation from others that might be at work there. Dolash fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Aug 18, 2013 |
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Aug 18, 2013 19:16
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Who What Now posted:Tier 7: Samurai and Truenamer; have niches that their abilities actively work against. Haha, really? Someone explain this for me.
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Aug 18, 2013 20:00
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Dolash posted:My money's on Nale dying, since 'family business', and Tarquin makes a better final antagonist for Elan's plot arc without losing anything Nale imparted to it - he's really just a better continuation. If the Order gets the "murdered in a pit" treatment (which they might, since Tarquin specifically asked Haley to get out of the pit too), V will reappear just in time to save them. Evil or not, part of having a noteworthy Dynasty is having grandkids. Elan and Haley are more likely to have kids than Nale and Sabien. Tarquin has been playing some Crusader Kings II and wants to make sure his heirs aren't a bunch of losers.
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Aug 18, 2013 20:09
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Nilbop posted:Haha, really? Someone explain this for me. Because of hilariously bad design, Truenamer abilities actually get *harder* to use as you level up, since the Truenaming DC for casting their powers increases faster than the points you are allowed to put in said skill. The only way of getting around this is custom magic items or tricking your DM into letting you have an item familiar.
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Aug 18, 2013 20:30
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Nilbop posted:Haha, really? Someone explain this for me. Truenaming is a Class Specific skills who's DC's for success increase by a factor of (Max Possible Bonus to Truenaming Skill per level)^(Hit Dice Of Monster) essentially, meaning by level 5 you literally cannot ever possibly succeed on any true naming check and therefore cannot using any of your class features.
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Aug 18, 2013 21:21
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Who What Now posted:Tier 7: Samurai and Truenamer; have niches that their abilities actively work against.
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Aug 18, 2013 21:27
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Is it my imagination, or does the mention of a drop of blood seem to make Durkula perk up a bit?
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Aug 19, 2013 00:09
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