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Well, guys, what say we take Mr. Vanderhuge's suggestion and find out if Order of the Stick can support an ongoing thread or if it's best left as something occasionally discussed in the Webcomics Thread or BSS Derailed? For those not in the know, The Order of the Stick (should be found at http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootslatest.html) is the humorous story of a bunch of stick figure adventurers living in a very typical Dungeons & Dragons high fantasy world. Rich Burlew's excellent writing skills give the comic a wide appeal while his uncanny grasp of current Dungeons & Dragons rules gives almost every strip a special fourth-wall-breaking payoff for the true nerds among us. You can find his stuff in print under the names "Origin of PCs," "Dungeon Crawling Fools," and "Ain't No Cure for the Paladin Blues," which I recommend for the quality bonus material found therein. Recently in Order of the Stick, the generally chill yet malicious lich Xykon has taken command of an enormous army of hobgoblins and is moving to assault the Asian-themed Azure City as part of his plot to conquer the world, or destroy it or something. Zealous paladin Miko has become convinced that Shojo, lord of her city and her boss, has entered an unholy alliance with Xykon and the Order and after going on a nice long rant about how everyone but her fellow paladins is Evil attacked the old man. So, there you go, discuss recent events, old events, whatever. For my two bits, Miko's as fallen as they come and the only question is whether she'll take blackguard levels or become a bizarro variant paladin. The clincher is her statement that "everyone here 'cept us paladins is Evil whether or not they detect as such ." Seeing as how D&D has absolute standards of Good and Evil that paladins can sense with a moment's concentration (Lord am I familiar with this after GMing for a paladin for years), if she's attacking people who she knows aren't Evil, then she's Evil. End of it. Also to answer a question from the last thread, yes, a person can be brought back to life even if the body is completely destroyed unless you either can't find 25,000 gold coins and a high-level divine caster for True Ressurection or some soul-binding trickery is involved. Or if they died of old age. I would like to say that I thought Haley's reasoning that the heroes can't kill Nale because he'd just get raised doesn't hold water. He's Evil, stupid! He forms Evil teams, and a universal aspect of Evil teams is that the members don't have any loyalty to each other! Besides, even if his underlings raised him they'd be out a lot of cash.
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Jan 28, 2007 21:08
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The Werle posted:The quality and narrative of OOtS has jumped leaps and bounds ever since Rich quit his dayjob. Huh, I must not have been paying attention. When did he do that? I think I might have to go buy some more of his books now...
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Jan 28, 2007 23:54
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Battlestar Ferrinus posted:I would be with you on this except that OotS has gone out of its way to show that paladins aren't assholes. Hinjo and the other members of the Sapphire Guard are good, reasonable people, and honestly Roy follows the Lawful Good alignment faithfully enough that he could easily be a paladin instead of a fighter without dramatically changing in character. I'm with you on Hinjo, but the thing about Roy is I kinda think he's a dick. There's a line between playing your role as the party straight man and just being a jerk to the "wacky" characters, and it's a line I think he crosses. There's something in his tone when he calls Elan stupid or predicts Elan will do something stupid for the 800th time that's mean. Also, while feeling good about scoring with your girlfriend is fine, giving yourself high-fives over it in the lewd manner he did (see an example a few strips back) seems an rear end in a top hat thing to do to me. Durkon, though, Durkon's Lawful Good and a stand-up chap. This is a discussion thread and spoilers aren't really necessary past perhaps the first post, if I'm not mistaken. If anyone else feels my statements about recent events in the first post say too much, speak up and I'll tag 'em. CoolCab posted:I'd say that bit about her meeting with the Linear Guild in prison is very possible (I had forgotten meeting an evil Outsider is a prerequisite for Blackguard, good catch!), but I can also see the invasion happening like next comic. Becoming disgraced meas she can't fight with her allies so she is abandoned, she meets the Linear Guild on the battlefield and is forced to team up (Nale and co have no protection from or alliance with the hobgoblins). Since the city is falling it's impossible to get a cleric in for the raise and the OoTS have to escape. I like Miko doing the Sith thing a lot too. And even though she'd never knowingly talk to an evil outsider, between Sabine's shapechanging and Nale's illusions I'm sure they can find a way to trick her. Too bad blackguards are weaksauce.
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Jan 29, 2007 23:42
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bgaesop posted:What blackguards are you looking at? 3.5 blackguards kick rear end. What level do you suppose Miko is currently? Well, alright, I like the wee bit of Sneak Attack and the save-dropping aura. Summon Monster I is laughable, but it's not "core" blackguard, so I can't fault 'em much there. I think the biggest problem for me is that Smite Good only gets damage by levels in this one class. Compare to paladins, who if they don't just buy straight paladin can easily find prestiges to stack smite damage. It's all relative, I'm just saying the party at home straps on their lollerskates whenever a blackguard challenges them. Maybe because I can't be bothered to construct a blackguard to match the reigning Paladin / Fist of Tyr / Legendary Leader / Human Paragon / whatever the gently caress. So, I retract that comment and state that Miko the blackguard could wreak unholy havoc on the nearly prestige-less heroes. Lookin' forward to it. The question is whether a brilliant energy sword, ripping off Star Wars, would be beneath the comic. TJO posted:Holy moly, this is great. In fact it has given me an all new faith in webcomics. Thanks SuperKlaus. Welcome aboard and spread the word! matryx posted:Does anyone else think it would be a good idea for him to animate them? Mm, no, I wouldn't want that. If for no other reason than that I couldn't buy a book.
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Jan 30, 2007 22:59
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the_steve posted:For example, killing the Bandit Leader and his daughter. Well, the other thing to me about D&D morality is that it's the morality of a feudal world. Those two were probably outside the jurisdiction of any law and attacked her so she did what a samurai would do and wasted the scum. It's not like paladins traditionally bother to take orcs prisoner and rehabilitate them (barring a paladin I know with +50 Diplomacy and the Exalted Deeds redemption rules), you know? And as Belkar pointed out in his own way early in the strip, orcs are sentient beings too. So it's just the medieval way of doing things to execute transgressors. Now don't take that to mean I think what she did to Shojo was justified, of course. He made no motion to be a direct threat to her, was well within the law's ability to punish, was her boss, so on. Nor do I think Miko's a person really deserving of paladinhood. I just felt like stating my opinion on the example you brought up. SuperKlaus fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Jan 31, 2007 |
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Jan 31, 2007 22:30
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the_steve posted:I agree with alot. I think it can be assumed that the bandit dad was moving to strike her (he drew his weapons after all) and she simply won initiative, and we can't see it for certain because comics are static. Giant in the Playground is explained on the site. If I remember correctly it's just an image Rich thought up and liked.
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Feb 2, 2007 01:19
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You know what I just caught reading the strip where Nale hires his new wizard? The kid's name is "Pompey," and he's here to oppose "Vaarsuvius." Eh? Eh? I don't think it's coincidence. It sure doesn't bode well for what would happen if the kid fought V, but I guess we already knew who was weaker.
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Feb 3, 2007 05:14
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Wex Major posted:Actually it bodes very well. Well, from the heroes' perspective, not the kid's.
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Feb 3, 2007 07:30
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High Altitude Hair Stylist posted:What level would that be? Don't your games reach a point where attacks, or at least the first couple of them, are virtually guaranteed to hit? Between base attack, magic weapons, gradually increasing ability scores and scads of miscellaneous magic stuff (which I understand can be selected for defense but for all gamers I know are selected for killing power) I've found that to-hit values increase quite a bit faster than Armor Classes. Now I don't think 12th level is that point, especially considering that the Order and the guys they fight seem to be lacking in magic gear, but it happens sometime. And then there's damage rolls, which tend to pass the line where the die is significant compared to the bonus a lot earlier than to-hit. Saves are almost as bad in my mind too, with rising levels creating a divide between "you make it no problem" and "you have no hope" depending on which saves are "good" and "bad" for your class.
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Feb 5, 2007 22:35
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Sneee posted:I suppose I'll find out; that's what I'm looking forward to, seeing how that plays out. Oh, that and what happens with Pompey and whats-his-name. Speaking of what's-his-name, know what else I noticed? I'm stretching a lot more here and maybe I just remember Dragonball Z's naming conventions too well, but the gnome is Leeky (like leeks) to contrast Durkon (daikon radishes?) Huh? Huh? Yikyik, however, has absolutely nothing to do with Belkar that I can see. The letter K, I guess. TheFuzzyLumpkin posted:Well, uh, not exactly the point I was making, though coincidentally my PCs do get very powerful and I understand how what I wrote could be easily misread as only applying to PCs. High Altitude Hair Stylist was, I think, questioning the idea that dice become less important / irrelevant and I was asking him about his experience because it was apparently unlike mine. In mine, monsters and PCs alike get to-hit faster than their foes get AC. My point with saves is that in my experience growing "good" base saves trivialize the die roll like growing base attack / STR / etc. does, while "poor" base saves can't keep up with spell level and relevant modifier increases. Thus, you either just about automatically save or just about automatically fail, removing a lot of tension from the game. This is really no fun when a D&D auto-kill spell is in play. I too have dealt with paladins who play the game intelligently and pour everything they've got into CHA and man a +10 modifier applied to all saves ain't pretty. Christ, I'm sorry to all you readers who don't do D&D, I don't mean to go all Trad Games here but talking about the game is fun for me.
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Feb 7, 2007 06:33
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Vomax posted:Almost certain that's only a natural 20, otherwise weapons with high crit ranges and feats/spells that increased them would be entirely too powerful. You are correct, sir.
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Feb 12, 2007 02:23
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I really like Psion's prediction with Hinjo joining the team and being Miko's opposite, but if Miko joins the Linear Guild I can't see how she wouldn't become dominant. She's drat near magic-proof (or would be again once she gets Blackguard levels) and so can't be charmed into obedience barring Burlew just saying she is, I think she'd smash the Guild in a stand-up fight even with it being three-on-one, and I don't think she'd happily play subordinate because she's just not like that. And Miko being dominant isn't cool because you'd lose the megalomaniacal scheming.
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Feb 15, 2007 21:02
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Lafarga posted:My prediction: I, uh, don't quite get it. You think Xykon is going to make an effort to retrieve his crown? You know Roy really made things worse this last strip. Stepping in and being a jerk to the nobleman may have cost the city his support and really the last thing Hinjo needs is the impression he's a weakling whose thugs keep him safe.
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Feb 16, 2007 21:57
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Haha, that dwarf paladin is so screwed...
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Feb 17, 2007 19:49
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The Libris Mortis reprints that with a tad more information, making it clear that the lich regens near his phylactery. I always thought that just made sense, intuitively.
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Feb 18, 2007 23:09
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CoolCab posted:Easier, why bother with a decoy? What does it matter if Xykon gets blown up, the gate ritual takes a week anyway, he'll have plenty of time to regenerate. Redcloak gets to take the city and justifibly make his boss explode(alongside the tactical advantage this provides). Awesome. But he can't let Xykon get fragged at the start of the battle! One of his Meteor Swarms takes out like 70 of the enemy low-level punks. Redcloak would be a fool to throw away the firepower edge his boss provides even for a big distraction. And you all know The Werle is right. Goblins is bitches and that's all there is to it.
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Feb 21, 2007 06:04
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Xykon is shown specifically casting Meteor Swarm in one of the bonus strips in the second book, so even if Rich did give a drat about limiting sorcerer spells known it would be there. An' it can take out a ton of loser human soldiers without threatening the gate because the gate is so far from the city walls.
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Feb 22, 2007 00:28
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Battlestar Ferrinus posted:There are bonus strips in the second book?! They're present there too. Greater quantity, I think, and I'd also say greater quality. Also commentaries from Burlew (did you know lots of people didn't get the Green Lantern joke when Xykon met those lantern archons? I got it...). Order of the Stick is the only webcomic I've been driven to buy in print and it's totally worth it.
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Feb 23, 2007 01:26
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Hay now I get to be the obsessive-compulsive nut who does this!  New strip http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0419.html Blackguard question answered? Also, Astral pools...every third strip I feel I've sunk to even nerdier depths.
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Feb 27, 2007 02:47
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green leaf salad posted:I liked Miko in this strip. She may be a total bitch, but she's not delusional just yet. I could see her atoning at some point during the battle just as much as I could see her going Blackguard, and either way I get the feeling she might turn the tide in favour of whatever alignment she chooses. Her atonement could be fascinating and would earn the strip some big points for not doing what everyone expects to happen, but, well, I think what everyone expects to happen will happen and she'll become Blackguard. One, because Rich has made it clear he intended for her to be an antagonist and not a nice person. Two, because her recent actions kinda kill her power to be an antagonist who's still on the good side of the fence. Three, because I agree she could be a battle-turner and I think the strip would be lots more interesting if allows the bad guys a threatening victory. That's just how stories go, you know? Xykon could capture Azure City but not gain ultimate power through a simple revelation that he needs more than one gate to control the Snarl.
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Feb 27, 2007 22:06
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 New strip! Good to see Elan's still an idiot at his core. I was really afraid he was going to get all competent on us. Betcha we get a three-page package o' action Monday!
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Mar 3, 2007 04:13
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Well I'll be jiggered. I guess he wants Azure City so bad it's given him stoneskin balls. I wonder if he's really got the power in him to rebuke Xykon?
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Mar 6, 2007 06:12
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the_steve posted:The Order of the Stick: The Redcloak Appreciation Station I've been hoping the comic that shows up when this hits 1000 posts, if it ever does, gives a reason to use another Nietzche title, myself... I'd buy that it's just some skeleton and not Xykon, 'cept skeletons aren't intelligent and able to speak. Doesn't rule out "Awaken Undead" spells or some skeleton-looking higher undead or 100 other crazy rear end explanations D&D enables, but I'm sayin'.
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Mar 8, 2007 22:34
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Fuego Fish posted:Also, if you go by the Turner hypothesis, you have heart (internal organ) which isn't an element at all. Sure, you talk all big here, but let's see you tell that to the South American kid and his monkey. Go on, break his heart with your science. He'll cry.
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Mar 10, 2007 01:48
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You know this is something I've wondered watching the Achewood threads bouncing around the subforum - are webcomic threads voted gold for the quality of discussion within or just because everyones likes the comic so darn much? e: And because there's nothing I like more than talking about elves Talkie Toaster posted: And elf-hate is equally as prevalent and annoying. Elves can be well-written and interesting (there's plenty of threads to take, like arrogant bastards/dying race/secretive mystics) and not "zOMG Legolas was like soooooo awesome I wanna surf onna shield" or "People who are like humans, but better". The threads you mention are, uh, found together in pretty much every fantasy elf race. They're very far from mutually exclusive and also pretty far from interesting thanks to gross overuse. Tolkien's elves are an arrogant 'n' secretive dying race of mystics. SuperKlaus fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Mar 11, 2007 |
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Mar 11, 2007 05:37
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I don't think any one aspect would be interesting even with the others absent, though, because I've seen 'em with elves before.
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Mar 11, 2007 06:33
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You want innately inferior to humans, try "they don't get a bonus feat or skill points." You ask me, every nonhuman race is inferior. Also, I agree that this last strip contained some very exciting action considering the limitations of the art style.
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Mar 11, 2007 20:29
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Jonked posted:Sure, but if Elves weren't quite literally mentally retarded, even a young elf would well into the Epic levels. That's what people don't seem to realize about elves. If their development was treated with any sort of commonsense, elves would be the ubergods of the D&D setting. 2nd Edition capped the maximum character level of those nonhuman scum for precisely that reason. Common sense has no place in D&D anyhow. That's what makes the comics ragging on it so funny.
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Mar 12, 2007 23:55
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Nobby posted:But given the timeliness, I'd guess 300 had something to do with it. Just a coincidence you're seeing. Remember when they met the bandits in the forest Elan says "where'd the sun go?" as arrows rain down on him. I played a card game once with a card called "Blackened Sky" representing tons of arrows being fired. It's all just a way of emphasizing that there's lots of incoming fire.
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Mar 13, 2007 21:43
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Cowcaster posted:No, I'm pretty sure there's more than a coincidence to it. At least it's a hell of a lot more likely to be a reference than "shiny metal rear end" to Futurama. Neither statement is unique enough that there's any good reason to believe it is a reference. Not any more than Roy saying "THIS ENDS NOW!", should he ever fall so low (or has he said that before?), would be a Superman reference. SuperKlaus fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Mar 15, 2007 |
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Mar 15, 2007 01:18
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Halloween Jack posted:drat, I wish that instead of going on a date last night I'd read a magazine article about dragon skeleton boats. gtfo JOCK
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Mar 23, 2007 23:59
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King Doom posted:No chance at all of it happening like this but I want a shock plot twist that see's Redcloak tricking Xykon into flying to his destruction and then revealing that it was the hobgoblin who was the big evil all along. He's so much more entertaining than an idiot lich. This is incorrect, and "Sshh! This dork is about to set off, like, a hundred traps" is why it is incorrect. I don't think Roy's gonna die. I certainly hope he doesn't, anyway, because this new "competent" Elan bugs me somehow. It's the outfit. I have no desire to see him leading the Order.
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Mar 25, 2007 20:03
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Wolfsheim posted:And plus, his new outfit is homage to Locke from FFVI, so you better reco'nize needs more bandana
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Mar 25, 2007 20:14
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And presumably something the author finds ridiculous if he's making that tag so obvious.
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Mar 27, 2007 22:53
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Guys let's hang out at the next con and be his "punch smartasses in the face crew." Did these people not experience the How to Draw books in their childhoods? I get a warm feeling every time I see a OoTS dragon because it makes me think of fifth grade, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, and dodgeball.
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Apr 2, 2007 02:08
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Factor_VIII posted:I used to like KoDT quite a bit as well. I stopped buying it when the comic ended up being more about uninteresting character drama (Will Crutch ever escape his life of crime? Will Bob ever manage to make peace with his father? etc) rather than jokes about RPGs. The fact that the magazine was stuffed with articles about Hackmaster, a game system I had no interest in, certainly didn't help maintain my interest in it. Similar here, but my peeve was more that he started writing as if we gave a poo poo about the fantasy world the guys played in (see: excessively long entries in Brian's diary about some poo poo in the jungle, poo poo about gnomes). I jumped ship before the character drama ramped up and I'm grateful for it. It fell so far. So, doods, we need a new thread for 1 kilopost or is this thing good to go for eternity?
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Apr 10, 2007 07:00
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Alright then, I will suppress my sudden temptation to create The Order of the Stick: All About Boners. Would probably attract the wrong crowd, but it's all I can see in that picture now too dammit! drat FedEx penis!
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Apr 10, 2007 22:52
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On it like white on rice. Goddamn I might have to splurge and finally buy that Xykon avatar I been thinking about.
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Apr 11, 2007 21:07
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Filler? What the heck? This is still a humor comic first and foremost, guys, so he's gotta make joke strips. We should all know by now that turning to "story" exclusively puts any humor series at large risk of going to poo poo. Besides, he's progressing in that he's showing us what every Order member is up to while making jokes. He can say the fight's over and the gobbos are leaving next strip and it would flow perfectly in my mind.
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Apr 13, 2007 00:58
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Well, if I was the GM I would award Belkar XP on the basis that he was clearly challenged. It's just that a PC of the level he probably is usually takes on infinity billion hob-gobs without breaking a sweat. Belkar, like the rest of the Order, doesn't seem to possess the amazing array of magic gewgaws you'd expect at his level and ends up with an AC the enemy can hit. Creepy little Erfworld necromancerette is wearing a getup like Vanessa from King of Fighters. I wonder if that's connected or just an outfit I haven't seen anywhere else.
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Apr 16, 2007 06:24
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