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Ajaarg posted:It's a hobby the same way gambling is a hobby. Not to say you can't do either with some measure of control, but you have to take a hard look at yourself. Is it a hobby or an addiction? If you're struggling to keep up a relationship or a job, here is a hint: it's not a hobby. For something to be a hobby it seems like it has to improve some aspect of your life, and I don't see playing WoW or gambling as doing either, really. Yeah they might provide an outlet to "blow off steam" but almost anything can do that. I'd classify WoW as more of a passtime or an escape from reality, like watching TV. There's nothign inherently wrong with that, but if you're considering WoW over loving your girlfriend, you need to take a step back and examine your priorities. It's a ridiculous question. Expand your horizons, try some new things, and have your girlfriend along with you.
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Mar 16, 2007 19:19
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Grrn posted:I have absolutely no one that I know that a) raids WoW at a high level, b) has a successful relationship, and c) has a full time job. You almost got there, but it looks like I'm going to have to prod you into ruminating upon the question that follows from this: why do you think this might be the case?
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Mar 16, 2007 19:20
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Old Carbuncle posted:Are you supposed to be able to regale your grandkids with epic tales of your hobbies? Seriously, get a grip. He has a problem because if he keeps letting his hobby take priority over his girlfriend, he won't be in a position to have any grandkids in the first place. Your grandpa whittling wood? Hey man, he's an older, retired dude, he can chill and do that. He's got the time, he doesn't work, he doesn't have kids to raise. However this guy is at the other end of his life, he needs to spend his time and efforts in the stuff that young people do -- like starting relationships. A little WoW is okay but choosing between your hobby and your girlfriend? Come on. Or he'll wind up as an old retired grandfather-age dude, still alone, still banging away at a keyboard, and nothing will ever change.
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Mar 16, 2007 19:22
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Ajaarg posted:It's a hobby the same way gambling is a hobby. Not to say you can't do either with some measure of control, but you have to take a hard look at yourself. Is it a hobby or an addiction? If you're struggling to keep up a relationship or a job, here is a hint: it's not a hobby. I do agree with you. If something begins to interfere with work, or real life relationships, it becomes an addiction. Everything in moderation, even hobbies, but that doesnt mean WoW isnt a hobby or in any way less (un)productive than any other, and it certainly doesnt mean he has to stop playing entirely. I agree, he does need to cut back. Anyone that plays 5 days a week for 4 hours a night (not including time spent out of raid) needs to cut back, definitely. I myself use WoW not only as a hobby, but as a major stress reliever, since killing things in video games always has and will be the best output of any anger or stress that I've accumulated through the days. The only thing that neutralizes me any better is a nice, long back scratch from my girlfriend. That said, I raid 2 nights a week max, but probably play a few hours a day any other day of the week, maybe 3 or 4 days where I dont play much at all. Edit: Hahah i probably should have mentioned a bunch of what I've said in my original post. Once again just to clarify, Im not validating what hes doing, im simply saying AppleCobbler really isnt looking at it the right way at all, and showing how WoW is just a good a hobby as any other. meatlock posted:Judging by your tone, you're probably the one who needs to get a grip, for your own good. Im probably just bitter because my parents have the exact same train of thought as AppleCobbler, and think WoW is satan regardless of how little or much you play. But they're in their late 50's so I dont think they'd understand no matter what approach I took. Defiant Sally fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Mar 16, 2007 |
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Mar 16, 2007 19:22
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My situation is different because we both played before we met, but we played together. Have you tried telling her why it's such a fun, exciting and interesting game for you to play? How there's tons of fun people to interact with, cute gnomes to play, and clothes to get? I personally believe she should try out your hobby before she gets upset over you wanting to spend lots of time doing it. Let her know it's a fun thing that you can do together, and if she doesn't believe you, she can talk to me, or some of the several married couples I've raided with. It's a fun way to chill out together, and can be a viable solution. Of course, she has to be able to get into your guild once she levels. There's always the chance that she may hate it, and you have to be okay with that. My two guild leaders fell in love and started mysteriously taking week vacations rather often, and we managed alright without them some days. If possible, train one of your officers to be a good raid leader, so he can take up some of the duties if you take some nights off. This of course doesn't work if you're the main tank and nobody else knows the fights. Oy >< A lot of people don't understand the investment you've made in your character and your friends. I still miss a lot of the great people I used to raid with. It really is like any hobby- you invest time to make something that makes you happy. Just because it's not solid and provable doesn't make it invalid.
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Mar 16, 2007 19:24
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Look, I'm not a fan of getting all high and mighty at people over the internet, but you have a problem. MMO addiction is a real, tangible thing, and not just something the rest of us snipe at you about because we "don't get." Honestly, I think you should cold turkey that poo poo for a month and see how you feel about it.
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Mar 16, 2007 19:26
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I would look at this thread as the moment of clarity in your WoW-binging much like an alcoholic. Read the thread over and over until it clicks that you are distressed due to having trouble conforming your life and relationships to work with a schedule you play a video game that you don't realize is turning you into a crippled addict, and just how pathetic the nature of that distress is. Otherwise, the potential to flash forward 3 years and see yourself comfortable in front of your computer on ventrillo doing the same exact poo poo you are now only completely alone, becomes a very real possibility.
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Mar 16, 2007 19:27
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Grrn posted:The problem is that if I did end up quitting WoW I could see myself getting heavily into something else to fill that void. That sounds like the best idea. The things you might look at for filling the void: (1) life, (2) in-person social interactions. Pretty much everything else you can do is more healthily self-limiting than WOW is.
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Mar 16, 2007 19:28
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As others have said, you need to realize that playing WoW provies no real-life benefits. Unless of course you sell your poo poo to IGE or something and make a little bit of money. But overall, in a few years when playing WoW is long behind you, you'll realize it didn't benefit you at all. You didn't make any new friends, you didn't learn any valuable skills or teach yourself a fun new hobby that you can do your whole life. You spent 5 nights a week moving a mouse cursor across the screen to initiate combat with a pixelated representation of a demon and pray to God he drops your epic loot. If you can put it in perspective it's actually a really retarded concept. In the meantime, your girlfriend is sitting alone in the other room wishing you were there with her. She may not tell you this all the time, but that's how she feels every second you're playing WoW. She thinks it's more important to you than her, and in this case it sounds like it is. I'm not saying you shouldn't play WoW. I recently reactivated my account play a little. However I'm a full time student with a 20-30 hour/week job and I live with my girlfriend. I don't play WoW while she's at home usually. If she's at work and I'm home alone with nothing else to do I'll fire it up for a few hours. Or if she's busy doing a term paper and I don't want to bother her anyway, I'll play. You really need to step back and evaluate your priorities. If WoW provides more genuine satisfaction for you than your girlfriend does, then dump her, she probably deserves someone better. It would be a win/win situation for both of you. However if you think that maybe you want to be with this girl for a while, and that WoW is just a passing fad in your life, you need to make some changes right quick. Otherwise this game might just be the mortal strike in your relationship. SEE WHAT I DID THER
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Mar 16, 2007 19:34
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Are you loving kidding me? I'm lonely at home every loving night drinking beer by myself, and you have a girlfriend who is after your attention but you'd rather shoot a lightning bolt with a bunch of pixels? gently caress you man.
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Mar 16, 2007 19:34
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Old Carbuncle posted:Everything in moderation, even hobbies, but that doesnt mean WoW isnt a hobby or in any way less (un)productive than any other, and it certainly doesnt mean he has to stop playing entirely There's a difference between a productive hobby and an unproductive one. Everybody has (or should have) both. Learning an instrument, doing a sport, reading, painting, rebuilding old cars, whatever: there's a tangible end product in these tasks, or at the least you are improving yourself. Then there are the time wasters: TV, myspace/facebook/something awful posting, videogames. There is absolutely nothing wrong with these activities, since everyone does something like this, but very few of them say they're hobbies. What would you say if someone told you their hobby was checking myspace? You'd think they're pretty pathetic. It doesn't have to do with the activity itself, but rather how you view that activity with regard to your own identity. When you define yourself by your time-wasting activities, you've essentially just made your identity nothing. You may think that something like reading is just as much a waste of time as gaming. Yes, some of these are arbitrary social distinctions, but they are nevertheless real distinctions. The cachet of a level 70 WoW character exists only to a small in-group, but to be well-read is prized in just about all aspects of educated society. And hey, I've been posting here for some seven years, and a ton of those posts are in games, so it's not like I'm taking an elitist position here.
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Mar 16, 2007 19:38
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Laporte Fan posted:Otherwise this game might just be the mortal strike in your relationship. SEE WHAT I DID THER Oh man, what a crushing blow  Ajaarg posted:Lots of I would say its an odd hobby but I know people who just sit on the internet in their free time with nothing better to do. Hell, my current girlfriend used to do it and so does her sister, so it wouldn't really surprise me. On the subject of productive hobbies, im an avid fantasy reader (olol I know, I get enough of it from my friends) and got a guitar for my birthday almost 8 months ago. Further, I've been going to the gym for about 5 years. I consider 3 of 4 of my main hobbies to be collosal wastes of time. Reading about slaying dargons and mans, as well as partaking in such things online wont get me anything in the end, and neither will playing guitar. Weightlifting and bodybuilding is of course, very beneficial but thats not the point of this thread. Im not quite sure how to respond to your post, to be honest, hehe. Defiant Sally fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Mar 16, 2007 |
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Mar 16, 2007 19:41
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Just dump your girlfriend so you have more time to raid. Seriously, if she wasn't there you would probably have a whole lot more epics and you could devote even more time to wow.
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Mar 16, 2007 19:41
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Toxx posted:I'm lonely at home every loving night drinking beer by myself Why don't you do something about your loneliness, then, instead of drinking beer by yourself every night? 
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Mar 16, 2007 19:42
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Ajaarg posted:There's a difference between a productive hobby and an unproductive one. Everybody has (or should have) both. Learning an instrument, doing a sport, reading, painting, rebuilding old cars, whatever: there's a tangible end product in these tasks, or at the least you are improving yourself. Exactly, the op needs to re-read this until he uninstalls world of warcraft. Lots of people call "smoking pot" a hobby, but it really isn't. Its just sitting around getting stoned. I don't care if you know 5000 different strains of indica, at the end of the day it doesnt help you and it doesnt help anyone else. It's cool to do - theres nothing wrong with smoking weed right - but don't bullshit yourself into thinking youre creating any kind of real value there. Same with WoW, or watching TV, or anything else of that nature. Expand your horizons. You'd be surprised how much chicks dig guys that are "good at things" and it can be almost ANYTHING. No, WoW does not count.
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Mar 16, 2007 19:44
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If you even have to ask, OP- you should hand over leadership roles, raid 1-2 times a week if that, and get a goddamn life.
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Mar 16, 2007 19:56
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Gonktastic posted:My situation is different because we both played before we met, but we played together. Have you tried telling her why it's such a fun, exciting and interesting game for you to play? How there's tons of fun people to interact with, cute gnomes to play, and clothes to get? Dude seriously what the hell is this you see, chicks dig cute gnomes and clothes
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Mar 16, 2007 20:18
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If you have to choose between sex, and World of Warcraft, then maybe you need to rethink a lot of things.
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Mar 16, 2007 20:19
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Old Carbuncle posted:Do you have the same attitude towards other peoples hobbies? Such as someone who builds ships inside tiny glass bottles, or paints?
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Mar 16, 2007 20:21
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Gonktastic posted:I personally believe she should try out your hobby before she gets upset over you wanting to spend lots of time doing it. Let her know it's a fun thing that you can do together, and if she doesn't believe you, she can talk to me, or some of the several married couples I've raided with. It's a fun way to chill out together, and can be a viable solution. Of course, she has to be able to get into your guild once she levels. Yea, he can recruit her.  I think that simply "NOT RAIDING FIVE loving NIGHTS A WEEK" is probably a better solution. I understand that you think that this is a legitimate hobby, and that's fine, but as has been stated, when you spend 30 loving hours a week on it, and reserve a whooping day or two for your significant other, that goes so far beyond 'hobby' and into the realm of 'addiction' that it's pathetic.
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Mar 16, 2007 20:31
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Grrn posted:I feel like there has to be a balance that can be struck and that we just have not found it yet, but I have absolutely no one that I know that a) raids WoW at a high level, b) has a successful relationship, and c) has a full time job. I think you're being perfectly reasonable and obviously you've put forth all the effort you could. When your job starts telling you that you're coming in looking too haggard, you should tell them to screw off too. There is nothing more important than WoW.
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Mar 16, 2007 20:35
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I consider going out to the bar to be a hobby (or more accurately a social experience, since it's not really so much a 'hobby' but you get the point) but the day I post this sort of thread about going out to the bar is the day I enroll in AA. I don't think they have WoWA yet but I think you get the point.
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Mar 16, 2007 20:43
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evilweasel posted:I consider going out to the bar to be a hobby (or more accurately a social experience, since it's not really so much a 'hobby' but you get the point) but the day I post this sort of thread about going out to the bar is the day I enroll in AA. I don't think they have WoWA yet but I think you get the point. I don't think a MMOA is that far off. And I can't comprehend playing a game as an obligation. Games are supposed to be fun.
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Mar 16, 2007 20:45
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Is it really that fun to raid that much? I mean honestly, so much fun to the exclusion of spending time with your girlfriend or watching a good movie or going for a walk or doing just about anything else 5 nights a week? Or is it that you just like to feel important on the internet? Because if it's the latter, I have some bad news: You aren't really that important *or* necessary to your guild. And in the long run it won't matter a bit whether it was you or someone else dedicating this much time and effort for something essentially meaningless. If you decide to cut back for a while, some other chump with way too much spare time will eagerly step up and take over all of your "responsibilities". Try this: quit your leadership position and say you jut want to play as a regular member. Then quit the game (and any related forums) for a month or 2 so you're not tempted to micromanage as the power structure reshuffles. In the meantime do something else. Read a book. Go on daytrips. Clean out your closets. When you come back (if you want to come back), you will have new priorities, and the game will look that much more shallow and you'll (hopefully) be able to recognize just how pathetic guild leaders are.
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Mar 16, 2007 21:01
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Hey, I simply told him about a successful relationship that worked while raiding a lot in WoW. Dozens of people judging him and telling him that the activity he enjoys is horrible and he needs to re-evaluate his whole life, and one gives a story where it works out. Raiding together is fun. We do lots of other things together too, it's all about finding balence, but it does work.
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Mar 16, 2007 21:08
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PurelyPolitical posted:I think that simply "NOT RAIDING FIVE loving NIGHTS A WEEK" is probably a better solution. Gonktastic posted:Hey, I simply told him about a successful relationship that worked while raiding a lot in WoW. Dozens of people judging him and telling him that the activity he enjoys is horrible and he needs to re-evaluate his whole life, and one gives a story where it works out. They're also nowhere nearly as compulsive and insensitive as this guy. If we need to be harsh to ask him to reprioritize his life, so be it. He has a problem. He needs an attitude adjustment before his relationship crumbles.
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Mar 16, 2007 21:10
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Gonktastic posted:Hey, I simply told him about a successful relationship that worked while raiding a lot in WoW. Dozens of people judging him and telling him that the activity he enjoys is horrible and he needs to re-evaluate his whole life, and one gives a story where it works out. We can judge him (to an extent) because for one thing, he posted the thread. He asked for our thoughts, and these are them. Also, more importantly, it's not that he plays WoW, it's that he plays 20+ hours a drat week. In fact, even that would be "fine" (although weird) if his girlfriend shared that love. She obviously does not, and is unhappy about it. Therefore, he has a problem, regardless of how many happy WoW playing couples there are OR how okay it is that he plays WoW. We are not telling him that WoW is inherently lame (much) nor are we saying he cannot ever play WoW. We are saying that he plays to the exclusion of every other thing, most importantly including his girlfriend, and that is unhealthy.
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Mar 16, 2007 21:12
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Gonktastic posted:Hey, I simply told him about a successful relationship that worked while raiding a lot in WoW. Dozens of people judging him and telling him that the activity he enjoys is horrible and he needs to re-evaluate his whole life, and one gives a story where it works out. If you're at the point where you're spending 20 hours a week doing raids and alienating the people around you yes, you need to re-evaluate the way you're living your life.
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Mar 16, 2007 21:14
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Slippery posted:We are saying that he plays to the exclusion of every other thing, most importantly including his girlfriend, and that is unhealthy.
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Mar 16, 2007 21:14
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meatlock posted:It's not a hobby for this guy anymore. When you're spending 4 hours a night and You seem biased against this game since it is an MMO. I don't think you are a good source to be telling anyone what they should or shouldn't do with their time, due to this bias. Just because you don't approve of this method of social interaction, it doesn't mean it's wrong.
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Mar 16, 2007 21:17
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BullProofMonk posted:You seem biased against this game since it is an MMO. I don't think you are a good source to be telling anyone what they should or shouldn't do with their time, due to this bias.
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Mar 16, 2007 21:21
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BullProofMonk posted:You seem biased against this game since it is an MMO. I don't think you are a good source to be telling anyone what they should or shouldn't do with their time, due to this bias. There's a reason I used a bar as my example. If you don't like that, think poker. This has gone beyond the level of 'hobby' or 'method of social interaction'.
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Mar 16, 2007 21:22
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I am betting he doesn't have to raid 5 nights a week, given. Most guilds have dkp policies in effect that keep the medium participants in the running. I used to raid 3 days a week, and always got the loot I wanted, even if I wasn't the first one. As some have already said, if you enjoy it, find the balance, or a guild that is better for your playstyle. This is coming from someone who used to be in one of the top ten guilds in EQ.
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Mar 16, 2007 21:25
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Mixing these three things does not work. In short: I used to lead one of the larger and more successful Alliance guilds. I took my 'job' way too seriously. Leading the guild for nearly two years was a complete and utter emotional strain on me, not to mention the detrimental effects it had on my personal relationships, as well as my performance at school and work. And, for what? So I can 'bust my rear end' (read: I hit taunt and sunder for hours on end) in a video game? Where's the reward for me, for my future? So, I haven't touched the game in nearly a year, and I haven't felt better. Sure, the friends I made ask me to come back, and I get tempted to, but I tell them no. I've taken the opportunity to make my life better for myself, getting into an educational program which I completely enjoy and am grateful for. I no longer chase virtual numbers and imaginary pieces of 'equipment' all night long. I stopped getting stressed out when some dramawhore throws a hissy fit that they didn't get some magical priest loot. For me, I'm glad that I quit. Now, obviously choosing between these three priorities in your life is your decision, and you have to be a big enough adult to decide what is important to you and who you'll be in the future. Want to raid? Go for it. Want to quit? Up to you, bro. Nobody in this thread is going to change you but yourself. And it doesn't sound like you want to change. Just try and put things in perspective before you're in GBS writing a long, whiny E/N thread, and legions of people start replying 'told ya so lol'.
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Mar 16, 2007 21:29
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Eris Is Goddess posted:And if it's all or nothing for him, maybe he would be better off with nothing, because you sure as gently caress don't need MMOs for life fulfillment. Seriously. I like having hobbies too, but the books I read and the job I do (even my Firebird, sadly enough!) won't keep me warm when I am very old.
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Mar 16, 2007 21:30
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BullProofMonk posted:You seem biased against this game since it is an MMO. I don't think you are a good source to be telling anyone what they should or shouldn't do with their time, due to this bias. I like to knit and embroider things. If I chose to ignore everything else in my life for 4 hours a night and just do that, don't you think my boyfriend would get pretty loving annoyed? The point isn't just that the guy is playing WoW, it's that he has gone beyond just doing something as a hobby to allowing it to completely absorb his life.
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Mar 16, 2007 21:32
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As a recent WoW-quitter and former raid leader, I'd suggest taking a week or so off and spending every minute that you would have been playing WoW on something social, productive, or outside.  In my experience doing so I was shocked just how much time I actually had in a week, and how many awesome hobbies, friends and opportunities to explore the world were easily available.It's seriously hard to comprehend just how much time WoW sucks up until you fill it with other activities. Also, I'm sure your girlfriend would appreciate it.
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Mar 16, 2007 21:36
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Gonktastic posted:Hey, I simply told him about a successful relationship that worked while raiding a lot in WoW. Dozens of people judging him and telling him that the activity he enjoys is horrible and he needs to re-evaluate his whole life, and one gives a story where it works out. Your "solution" for him was to disregard the desires of his significant other, and to effectively resolve the issue by addicting her to the extent that he is addicted. If you don't see the problem with that, I don't know what to tell you.
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Mar 16, 2007 21:43
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I hate that game more than anything in this world. My boyfriend spends every spare second he has playing the game when he's not sleeping. Come to think of it, he plays WoW instead of sleeping now. We live together and I don't think we spend more than an hour with each other everyday (including meals), maybe 3 hours on the weekends. I can only recall twice in the past few weeks where we went to bed at the same time. If you think the game won't ruin a relationship, think again. It's definitely ruining mine.
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Mar 16, 2007 21:44
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Flootloop posted:I hate that game more than anything in this world. My boyfriend spends every spare second he has playing the game when he's not sleeping. Come to think of it, he plays WoW instead of sleeping now. We live together and I don't think we spend more than an hour with each other everyday (including meals), maybe 3 hours on the weekends. I can only recall twice in the past few weeks where we went to bed at the same time. If you think the game won't ruin a relationship, think again. It's definitely ruining mine. have you tried dressing up like an elf rogue?
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Mar 16, 2007 21:47
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