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bgaesop
Nov 1, 2005

by Y Kant Ozma Post


DemonNick posted:

Actually, history is full of stories about scientists who were right, but whose ideas were ridiculed and attacked for falling too far from the scientific orthodoxy of the time.

Not really. I mean, I'm sure you can come up with a few examples, but it's hardly as widespread as people seem to think.

quote:

Scientists are people too, and are just as vulnerable to ignorance and closed-mindedness.

As individuals, maybe, but we have this wonderful system called "experimentation" and "peer review" which tends to get right at the truth, regardless of personal opinions.

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Senor Bambos
Aug 6, 2004


haljordan posted:

I can't decide which comic angers me the most: For Better or For Worse or Mark Trail. Mark Trail has a slight lead right now because he's such a smug prick.

Mark Trail's awesome because every storyline can, and almost inevitably will, be solved by Mark punching someone.

Cacatua
Jan 17, 2006



Jesus gently caress. Minimum Security could be the worst comic I've ever seen, and I'm counting the crap that appears in my university's newspaper. I'm probably considered left-wing by most people, but that comic makes me want to vomit with rage.

The author just doesn't seem to realize that the validity of your ideas doesn't depend on how many people attack you. Sometimes people criticize you because your much of your simplistic worldview is infuriatingly stupid and that there's nothing more annoying that an ignorant self-righteous, know-it-all who's too simple-minded to know how simple-minded she is.

Really, how dim do you have to be to think that people who take medication for life-threatening illnesses do so because they're too lazy and stupid to grow plants?

I was honestly surprised to see that the author of MS is 42 years old. I thought for sure that this was one of those horrid comics that's produced by some nineteen year old for a crummy college newspaper. Lots of teens have a similar attitude to McMillan's: humans are evil (except me!), I have the simple solutions to all the earth's problems, and I won't listen to anyone who says otherwise! Most grow out of that goofy, know-it-all phase, but no here. It appears McMillan's emotional development stopped at age seventeen.

Cacatua fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Jul 5, 2007

haljordan
Oct 22, 2004

the corpse of god is love.


College Slice

Senor Bambos posted:

Mark Trail's awesome because every storyline can, and almost inevitably will, be solved by Mark punching someone.

Or with a bear attack. So many bear attacks.

ukulele bastard
Dec 5, 2006

Fuck, shit, cock, ass, titties, boner, bitch, muff, pussy, cock, butthole, Barbara Streisand!

You're right, it really does get better without the lead chick.

Maarak
May 23, 2007


ukulele bastard posted:

You're right, it really does get better without the lead chick.



For some reason I find the absurd amount of negative space in the last panel hilarious.

Vingle Prime
Jan 22, 2006

You're really going to get a kick out of this...

ukulele bastard posted:

You're right, it really does get better without the lead chick.



It's become vaguely surrealist. There's so much to interpret without being sodomized with a radical set of morals.

shadysight
Mar 31, 2007

Only slightly crazy

Cacatua posted:

I was honestly surprised to see that the author of MS is 42 years old. I thought for sure that this was one of those horrid comics that's produced by some nineteen year old for a crummy college newspaper. Lots of teens have a similar attitude to McMillan's: humans are evil (except me!), I have the simple solutions to all the earth's problems, and I won't listen to anyone who says otherwise! Most grow out of that goofy, know-it-all phase, but no here. It appears McMillan's emotional development stopped at age seventeen.

I don't really want to dig through her comics to see if she actually addresses it, because it's just that bad, but it doesn't even seem like she's offering an alternative.

"Let's abandon science because it sucks!"
"Yes, lets!"
*pause*
"Ok, so now what?"

It's hard to even remain coherent trying to answer this, because there's so much wrong with it. I mean, what are you going to do without such scientific wonders as agriculture? I'm almost certain you can't support N billion people through hunting and gathering. Well, mostly gathering I guess, since tools are nice for hunting, and tools are pretty scientific.

I guess you can't even really think over the answer too much either since that'd be using previous experience and observations to formulate new ideas, which is unfortunately a fundamental part of science.

I temps me to do some parody comics, but I think I'll probably spend my time thinking about things that aren't retarded instead.

WindyMan
Mar 21, 2002

Respect the power of the wind

brnai posted:

On a lighter note, today was the first time I found Frank and Ernest's pun-fest to be funny:


Frank and Ernest is one of my favorites, and this strip is a good example why. Although it's based entirely around puns, at least the author tries to make clever ones. That's a lot different than most other strips out there that are punny and don't try to hide it.

mrmcgoogle
Sep 6, 2006

red x of death


Hey, now it's pretty funny.

Mister Kingdom
Dec 14, 2005

And the tears that fall
On the city wall
Will fade away
With the rays of morning light

While unpacking books in my new apartment, I found a copy of Lynn's FBOFW 10th anniversary collection.

Here's the very first strip from 9/9/79:



Not sure of the date, but here's some good Photoshop material:



Link to larger version

Women's Rights?
Nov 16, 2005

Ain't give a damn


Mister Kingdom posted:

While unpacking books in my new apartment, I found a copy of Lynn's FBOFW 10th anniversary collection.

Here's the very first strip from 9/9/79:



Is she carrying the sundaes backwards? Or did they decide that they didn't want them in the last panel? I don't get it.

Mister Kingdom
Dec 14, 2005

And the tears that fall
On the city wall
Will fade away
With the rays of morning light

Women's Rights? posted:

Is she carrying the sundaes backwards? Or did they decide that they didn't want them in the last panel? I don't get it.

She may be walking around the table with them.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this


Mister Kingdom posted:

Not sure of the date, but here's some good Photoshop material:



Link to larger version

Who says Lynn can't do faces?

Also, "Facial Exercises"? This must have been the 80's. After she put the book down she probably went out to snort coke and try to cut her thighs off in a hallicinogenic frenzy.

Mister Kingdom
Dec 14, 2005

And the tears that fall
On the city wall
Will fade away
With the rays of morning light

Magic Hate Ball posted:

Who says Lynn can't do faces?

Also, "Facial Exercises"? This must have been the 80's. After she put the book down she probably went out to snort coke and try to cut her thighs off in a hallicinogenic frenzy.



I think that's what she's done in the last frame.

Deep Hurting
Jan 19, 2006


Mister Kingdom posted:

Link to larger version

Lynn's drawing has lost SO much of its stylistic edge since then. And those are some terrific facial expressions. I wonder if this strip predates her having anyone else help her with the drawing–if so it would explain the radical difference.

The joke would be better if she'd left what the book was about a mystery, though.




It looks like something out of Non Sequitur or any number of Slave Labor books.

Mister Kingdom
Dec 14, 2005

And the tears that fall
On the city wall
Will fade away
With the rays of morning light

Deep Hurting posted:

Lynn's drawing has lost SO much of its stylistic edge since then. And those are some terrific facial expressions. I wonder if this strip predates her having anyone else help her with the drawing–if so it would explain the radical difference.


She talks about doing the strip in her basement office, so I guess she was still doing all the artwork herself.

moleman
Apr 26, 2003

Now the time has come to gather our forces and run.

mrmcgoogle posted:

Hey, now it's pretty funny.



I've read the last 30 days of that lovely comic laughing until I cried following the "remove the main character" method.







moleman fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Jul 6, 2007

Bast Relief
Feb 21, 2006

by exmarx


^This is great.

Cacatua posted:

I was honestly surprised to see that the author of MS is 42 years old. I thought for sure that this was one of those horrid comics that's produced by some nineteen year old for a crummy college newspaper. Lots of teens have a similar attitude to McMillan's: humans are evil (except me!), I have the simple solutions to all the earth's problems, and I won't listen to anyone who says otherwise! Most grow out of that goofy, know-it-all phase, but no here. It appears McMillan's emotional development stopped at age seventeen.

Wow. I would have guessed teens as well.
Part of the reason why so many teenagers have this very world view is in part because of the way they were taught science and the shallow view of environmentalism in the media. In elementary school, teachers (most of whom lean more towards social science and English, rather than science) like to teach ecology with fear tactics or by anthropomorphizing because it's easier and it "makes a connection" with the students. For example, when taking students on a nature walk, it's easier to tell the kids not to take the bark off the tree because it makes the tree sad, instead of explaining what girdling is. It is also easier to explain to kids that plain ol' everything humans do is bad, and "nature" is good, without regard for the fact that we're animals too, ya know.
The idea has been that stupid environmentalism is better than no environmentalism, but it can actually be quite the opposite. Uninformed environmentalists can actually do a lot of harm. For example, Stephanie's feeding of the mosquitoes and offering herself up as a vector for blood borne diseases, or some hippy freaks I knew in Davis who recycled their own poo poo in compost, didn't do a proper job of it to boot and then got some horrible puke-out-your-guts disease.
Anyway, this idiotic way of teaching has shown it's drawbacks and now the credo of new science teachers is "sustainable ecology". In other words, how can we still use Earth's resources, leaving as small of a footprint as possible and as efficiently as possible. Unfortunately this stuff takes some critical thinking and it's actually much easier to just say, don't kill bugs and only eat lentils.

Bast Relief fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Jul 6, 2007

Nausicaa
Jun 2, 2005

NEED GAMS BADLY


tonelok posted:

how does comics curmudgeon/josh reads get away with showing the strips in a non parody way?

Because Josh is displaying only the occasional unaltered strip for review purposes, which is squarely under Fair Use laws.
Altering them for parody purposes is technically not allowed.
IF, however, a parody artist were to totally create all the artwork from scratch, then it's allowed under Satire laws, like MAD magazine or Robot Chicken.
That's how Lio got away with the FBOFW parody some time ago.

So yes, secret club here, folks.

I just got back from a week in San Fran with no net access. Reading the Loveocalypse trainwreck in FBOFW in the San Jose Mercury with no way to reach the online rant communities was like screaming in a glass box.

ColdPie
Jun 9, 2006



Hair Elf

mrmcgoogle posted:

Hey, now it's pretty funny.



Holy cow, that made me laugh for a few solid minutes.

IKR Keeps Repeating
Apr 6, 2007
~dreamin of a world where everyone is a rational actor, reputation matters, governmental endorsement is what creates monopolistic powers, and the underclass know their place~

Removing the main character is the traditional way of making terrible comics hilarious. I think it started with Garfield.



Edit: Larger version.

Shiro Sirius
Jan 11, 2005

4 / / Itchy. Tasty.

Hatter106 posted:

http://www.tragically-delicious.com/



This gem graces my local "alternative" paper. Christ, I'd take Minimum Security over this.

I was catching up on this thread, and I noticed that he's responded to your comment with this:



"July 5th, 2007 - I know what you're thinking. "Dan, that guy looks like his life sucks bad enough without you making fun of him". You would be correct, but sometimes I'm a very small man and like to call fat-forum-troll-douchebags out on their poo poo. This would be a fine example.

When I first read my comic getting reamed on the somethingawful forums I was kinda hurt 'cause no one likes to hear something they work their rear end off on get ripped apart. However a 2 minute Google search with the guys at work made me feel much better. Just look at that loving guy. When I was working on the comic I had to hide the layer he was on because his picture creeped me out. Go back and try to look at it for a minute. Try it! He's got some kinda sexual predator vibe about him or something. 12 year old boys...memorize that face and keep your distance.

Also: Why is he in an Orchard? I have so many questions about "Hatter106" that will probably go forever unanswered. At least he sent me a couple thousand extra hits.

Alright, my Jay and Silent Bob retaliating against Internet douchebaggery is over (for now)."


That public image he got off Google totally makes you look like a paedophile, dude. That'll teach you to say bad things about his comic.

ElwoodCuse
Jan 11, 2004

we're puttin' the band back together

Nausicaa posted:

Because Josh is displaying only the occasional unaltered strip for review purposes, which is squarely under Fair Use laws.
Altering them for parody purposes is technically not allowed.

Parody is fair use too (see: the 2 Live Crew Pretty Woman case). But the problem is that the vast majority of alleged infringers who would have a good claim for parody either can't afford to or simply don't want to prove in court that they are protected by fair use. "Parody" also has a more rigorous standard of review than simple "fair comment".

Opinion Haver
Apr 9, 2007



Shiro Sirius posted:

That public image he got off Google totally makes you look like a paedophile, dude. That'll teach you to say bad things about his comic.

If I were Hatter106, I'd just be glad he didn't find out my REAL NAME! People can control your actions with that kind of knowledge!

Grammar Stalin
May 6, 2007


Shiro Sirius posted:

That public image he got off Google totally makes you look like a paedophile, dude. That'll teach you to say bad things about his comic.

That was a crappy retaliation. He just posted a somewhat unflattering picture of Hatter. Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame. Just like that comic.

That's right, Dan Cadera, I said it: your comic sucks. Go ahead; post my picture. loving do it. I dare ya.

IKR Keeps Repeating
Apr 6, 2007
~dreamin of a world where everyone is a rational actor, reputation matters, governmental endorsement is what creates monopolistic powers, and the underclass know their place~

Shiro Sirius posted:

That public image he got off Google totally makes you look like a paedophile, dude. That'll teach you to say bad things about his comic.

He drew a lovely comic about how he tracked down a picture of somebody who criticized his lovely comic in an internet forum. Oh snap, that sure showed Hatter106 what a pathetic loser he is.

shadysight
Mar 31, 2007

Only slightly crazy

Shiro Sirius posted:

I was catching up on this thread, and I noticed that he's responded to your comment with this:



"July 5th, 2007 - I know what you're thinking. "Dan, that guy looks like his life sucks bad enough without you making fun of him". You would be correct, but sometimes I'm a very small man and like to call fat-forum-troll-douchebags out on their poo poo. This would be a fine example.

When I first read my comic getting reamed on the somethingawful forums I was kinda hurt 'cause no one likes to hear something they work their rear end off on get ripped apart. However a 2 minute Google search with the guys at work made me feel much better. Just look at that loving guy. When I was working on the comic I had to hide the layer he was on because his picture creeped me out. Go back and try to look at it for a minute. Try it! He's got some kinda sexual predator vibe about him or something. 12 year old boys...memorize that face and keep your distance.

Also: Why is he in an Orchard? I have so many questions about "Hatter106" that will probably go forever unanswered. At least he sent me a couple thousand extra hits.

Alright, my Jay and Silent Bob retaliating against Internet douchebaggery is over (for now)."


That public image he got off Google totally makes you look like a paedophile, dude. That'll teach you to say bad things about his comic.

That... picture doesn't look that bad, even given that it's actually of the poster. That whole comic just makes the writer look that much more pathetic.

I mean, first off, he's obsessing over someone's opinion of him on the internet.

Secondly, he's making it the focus of his comic, which if you don't have better things to be talking about in it, than people's reactions to it, you shouldn't be doing.

Third, it's just sad the way he plays off friends being there and supporting him through all this. It just makes it so that either he's making that part up, and thus is a very, very sad person, or that he's really got a group of immature twits who's idea of revenge is aparently looking at a picture. Either way it just plays off as "Oh yeah, well... at least I have friends!"

KillerJunglist
May 21, 2007

Lion of Judah protect you, Jah be praised.


edit: ^^^ Yea, his friends in the comic are all on his side because the comic is the artist's little world, so he will always justified and supported in whatever he says or does. That's the problem with poo poo like MS and Jane's World (which thankfully isn't discussed here).

Shiro Sirius posted:

I was catching up on this thread, and I noticed that he's responded to your comment with this:



"July 5th, 2007 - I know what you're thinking. "Dan, that guy looks like his life sucks bad enough without you making fun of him". You would be correct, but sometimes I'm a very small man and like to call fat-forum-troll-douchebags out on their poo poo. This would be a fine example.

When I first read my comic getting reamed on the somethingawful forums I was kinda hurt 'cause no one likes to hear something they work their rear end off on get ripped apart. However a 2 minute Google search with the guys at work made me feel much better. Just look at that loving guy. When I was working on the comic I had to hide the layer he was on because his picture creeped me out. Go back and try to look at it for a minute. Try it! He's got some kinda sexual predator vibe about him or something. 12 year old boys...memorize that face and keep your distance.

Also: Why is he in an Orchard? I have so many questions about "Hatter106" that will probably go forever unanswered. At least he sent me a couple thousand extra hits.

Alright, my Jay and Silent Bob retaliating against Internet douchebaggery is over (for now)."


That public image he got off Google totally makes you look like a paedophile, dude. That'll teach you to say bad things about his comic.

Wow, this is just pitiful.

You should be ashamed Hatter106... you apparently hurt this guy really bad to make him "work so hard" on this comic.
Also: OMFG YOU'RE IN AN ORCHARD WHAT KIND OF PERSON WOULD EVER GO TO AN ORCHARD???!!!

KillerJunglist fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Jul 6, 2007

IKR Keeps Repeating
Apr 6, 2007
~dreamin of a world where everyone is a rational actor, reputation matters, governmental endorsement is what creates monopolistic powers, and the underclass know their place~

KillerJunglist posted:

Also: OMFG YOU'RE IN AN ORCHARD WHAT KIND OF PERSON WOULD EVER GO TO AN ORCHARD???!!!

A pedophile, that's who.

(P.S. Everybody on the internet you don't like is a pedophile/basement/cheetos.)

Nausicaa
Jun 2, 2005

NEED GAMS BADLY


ElwoodCuse posted:

Parody is fair use too "Parody" also has a more rigorous standard of review than simple "fair comment".

Yeah, I know, there are a lot of layers to what safely constitutes parody or satire.
The Comic Curmudgeons seem to be dissecting the laws getting to the bottom of those Shannon strips, too. As you said, most people just choose to back off than go through the legal hassle of defending it.

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005

by Fluffdaddy


Shiro Sirius posted:



Wow that totally rebuts everything he said about this comic sucking. It now unsucks. Nothing says artistic integrity like defending your work through ad hominem attacks cuz God forbid a person on the internet doesn't like your stuff.

That said I don't think it's nearly as bad MinSec, and judging by his photos section he is no anime character himself.

How the gently caress did he find out about this anyway? I swear there is a shadow group of goons who notify people the minute they've been mentioned in the forums

Nausicaa
Jun 2, 2005

NEED GAMS BADLY


Shiro Sirius posted:

I was catching up on this thread, and I noticed that he's responded to your comment with this:




Wow, that's almost Gonterman-ish in its level of

Tool.

Pepperoneedy
Apr 27, 2007

Rockin' it





Shiro Sirius posted:

I was catching up on this thread, and I noticed that he's responded to your comment with this:



"July 5th, 2007 - I know what you're thinking. "Dan, that guy looks like his life sucks bad enough without you making fun of him". You would be correct, but sometimes I'm a very small man and like to call fat-forum-troll-douchebags out on their poo poo. This would be a fine example.

When I first read my comic getting reamed on the somethingawful forums I was kinda hurt 'cause no one likes to hear something they work their rear end off on get ripped apart. However a 2 minute Google search with the guys at work made me feel much better. Just look at that loving guy. When I was working on the comic I had to hide the layer he was on because his picture creeped me out. Go back and try to look at it for a minute. Try it! He's got some kinda sexual predator vibe about him or something. 12 year old boys...memorize that face and keep your distance.

Also: Why is he in an Orchard? I have so many questions about "Hatter106" that will probably go forever unanswered. At least he sent me a couple thousand extra hits.

Alright, my Jay and Silent Bob retaliating against Internet douchebaggery is over (for now)."


That public image he got off Google totally makes you look like a paedophile, dude. That'll teach you to say bad things about his comic.

Christ, what a childish douchebag. "Wah! I can't handle someone criticizing the comic I spent ten (TEN!) minutes drawing! Well, I'll show you Internet! No one laughs at my crappy work and gets away with it!"

Douche. And the comic sucks, too.

EDIT: I counter this waste of (minimal) effort with a comic that shows the talent behind it:

Pepperoneedy fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Jul 6, 2007

IKR Keeps Repeating
Apr 6, 2007
~dreamin of a world where everyone is a rational actor, reputation matters, governmental endorsement is what creates monopolistic powers, and the underclass know their place~



I was going to make a Photoshop of the first frame to make the bald guy say, "Apparently that's every day for you, because this comic looks like rear end." Then I realized I'd be putting more effort into it than he did drawing it in the first place.

This strip doesn't even make sense, anyway.

(Edit: He never gives 110% - he either gives 65% or 45%.)

IKR Keeps Repeating fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Jul 6, 2007

loatisaf
Mar 18, 2002

Hail to the Hamster King, Baby

Shiro Sirius posted:

I was catching up on this thread, and I noticed that he's responded to your comment with this:





Let's be more considerate. It's not every day that someone draws a comic devoted to people that have had their hands mangled in a thresher accident.

loatisaf fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Jul 6, 2007

waffle
May 12, 2001
HEH


Shiro Sirius posted:

I was catching up on this thread, and I noticed that he's responded to your comment with this:



"July 5th, 2007 - I know what you're thinking. "Dan, that guy looks like his life sucks bad enough without you making fun of him". You would be correct, but sometimes I'm a very small man and like to call fat-forum-troll-douchebags out on their poo poo. This would be a fine example.

When I first read my comic getting reamed on the somethingawful forums I was kinda hurt 'cause no one likes to hear something they work their rear end off on get ripped apart. However a 2 minute Google search with the guys at work made me feel much better. Just look at that loving guy. When I was working on the comic I had to hide the layer he was on because his picture creeped me out. Go back and try to look at it for a minute. Try it! He's got some kinda sexual predator vibe about him or something. 12 year old boys...memorize that face and keep your distance.

Also: Why is he in an Orchard? I have so many questions about "Hatter106" that will probably go forever unanswered. At least he sent me a couple thousand extra hits.

Alright, my Jay and Silent Bob retaliating against Internet douchebaggery is over (for now)."


That public image he got off Google totally makes you look like a paedophile, dude. That'll teach you to say bad things about his comic.
Holy poo poo. This guy must be one of the most insecure losers on the loving planet. This is one of the most ridiculous, hilarious, saddest things I've ever seen.

HondaCivet
Oct 16, 2005

And then it falls
And then I fall
And then I know




Shiro Sirius posted:

I was catching up on this thread, and I noticed that he's responded to your comment with this:



"July 5th, 2007 - I know what you're thinking. "Dan, that guy looks like his life sucks bad enough without you making fun of him". You would be correct, but sometimes I'm a very small man and like to call fat-forum-troll-douchebags out on their poo poo. This would be a fine example.

When I first read my comic getting reamed on the somethingawful forums I was kinda hurt 'cause no one likes to hear something they work their rear end off on get ripped apart. However a 2 minute Google search with the guys at work made me feel much better. Just look at that loving guy. When I was working on the comic I had to hide the layer he was on because his picture creeped me out. Go back and try to look at it for a minute. Try it! He's got some kinda sexual predator vibe about him or something. 12 year old boys...memorize that face and keep your distance.

Also: Why is he in an Orchard? I have so many questions about "Hatter106" that will probably go forever unanswered. At least he sent me a couple thousand extra hits.

Alright, my Jay and Silent Bob retaliating against Internet douchebaggery is over (for now)."


That public image he got off Google totally makes you look like a paedophile, dude. That'll teach you to say bad things about his comic.

I hope that guy is still reading this thread so he can hear me say that he is a pathetic crybaby with the art skills and maturity of a 12 year-old with a DeviantArt account.

However, judging from his thin skin, he's probably already slit his tiny pale wrists.

Thackery Lambshead
Nov 3, 2005


New one:


Also I tried to keep in the spirit of Tragically Delicious by creating an edit with as horrible writing and execution as the original, I think I succeeded.

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ElwoodCuse
Jan 11, 2004

we're puttin' the band back together

shadysight posted:

Third, it's just sad the way he plays off friends being there and supporting him through all this. It just makes it so that either he's making that part up, and thus is a very, very sad person, or that he's really got a group of immature twits who's idea of revenge is aparently looking at a picture. Either way it just plays off as "Oh yeah, well... at least I have friends!"

Fourth--he uses the word "douchebaggery" seriously

Fifth--he seems to have completely missed the point of Jay and Silent Bob hunting down people that badmouthed them on the internet (hint: it's not the ultimate revenge fantasy)