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RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

http 418



hbag posted:

mint worked fine

is this supposed to be some kind of gotcha? p sure mint doesn't use the debian repos, even if its technically debian based because it uses .deb format for its packages

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astral
Apr 26, 2004



RFC2324 posted:

is this supposed to be some kind of gotcha? p sure mint doesn't use the debian repos, even if its technically debian based because it uses .deb format for its packages

It was suggested they try Mint (or a handful of other distributions), they tried Mint, and it worked.

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

http 418



astral posted:

It was suggested they try Mint (or a handful of other distributions), they tried Mint, and it worked.

oops, missed that detail, sorry!

tjones
May 13, 2005


Ubuntu based distros still originate from debian unstable branch? I included those in the list as a hail mary at trying to get something to work right out of the box. If you can get something to work you can then work backwards to figure out what needs to change on debian.

Personally I consider all the Ubuntu and Ubuntu-like distros debian adjacent and related.

Maybe it would have been more helpful to exclude those distros. I suspect MX Linux would result in the same issue since it's based on the stable branch. It would be worth a quick test with a boot iso to see, IMO.

My wild guess is a kernel issue with the intel integrated gpu. If I were wanting to stay on debian, I would start with backporting the kernel to a newer version and if that doesn't fix it updating packages from Sid to see if anything works.

pseudorandom
Jun 16, 2010




Yam Slacker

I have a dumb question, that's not really about Linux, but a side effect of using it. I'm also not really sure how to expect answers, since anything said would potentially harm security, but whatever.

I've had Linux as the main OS on my work laptop for several years now, and I just built a new desktop with Linux replacing Windows, too. Having Linux/Unix on servers hasn't posed this problem, but I'm not sure what to do on a desktop:

Can anyone offer tips for a picking strong password that isn't a pain to be typing over and over again? I keep all of my passwords in a password manager, but since being prompted for a password is so common in Linux having to copy and paste that would be inconvenient, or impossible if the situation means I can't have it open. Usually, I just want to type `sudo` real quick and just be done, which means right now my password is miserably low quality.

Like, what's a good way to balance having a strong password but not being annoyed by needing to frequently enter it over and over?

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

http 418



tjones posted:

Ubuntu based distros still originate from debian unstable branch? I included those in the list as a hail mary at trying to get something to work right out of the box. If you can get something to work you can then work backwards to figure out what needs to change on debian.

Personally I consider all the Ubuntu and Ubuntu-like distros debian adjacent and related.

Maybe it would have been more helpful to exclude those distros. I suspect MX Linux would result in the same issue since it's based on the stable branch. It would be worth a quick test with a boot iso to see, IMO.

my understanding is that they are related in that at one point, however long ago, they were debian with small changes. those changes got bigger over time as the distro maintainers went "maybe its not good to keep X antiquated piece of software around" and updated poo poo

I'm sure some still go back to the source for a periodic refresh. I feel like ubuntu itself probably does this.

this is only relevant because it means they know the issue is a driver that got update by Mint but not debian stable

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

http 418



pseudorandom posted:

I have a dumb question, that's not really about Linux, but a side effect of using it. I'm also not really sure how to expect answers, since anything said would potentially harm security, but whatever.

I've had Linux as the main OS on my work laptop for several years now, and I just built a new desktop with Linux replacing Windows, too. Having Linux/Unix on servers hasn't posed this problem, but I'm not sure what to do on a desktop:

Can anyone offer tips for a picking strong password that isn't a pain to be typing over and over again? I keep all of my passwords in a password manager, but since being prompted for a password is so common in Linux having to copy and paste that would be inconvenient, or impossible if the situation means I can't have it open. Usually, I just want to type `sudo` real quick and just be done, which means right now my password is miserably low quality.

Like, what's a good way to balance having a strong password but not being annoyed by needing to frequently enter it over and over?

I use a sentence. Makes it easier to hit 20 characters and still be comfortable to type.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!



pseudorandom posted:

I have a dumb question, that's not really about Linux, but a side effect of using it. I'm also not really sure how to expect answers, since anything said would potentially harm security, but whatever.

I've had Linux as the main OS on my work laptop for several years now, and I just built a new desktop with Linux replacing Windows, too. Having Linux/Unix on servers hasn't posed this problem, but I'm not sure what to do on a desktop:

Can anyone offer tips for a picking strong password that isn't a pain to be typing over and over again? I keep all of my passwords in a password manager, but since being prompted for a password is so common in Linux having to copy and paste that would be inconvenient, or impossible if the situation means I can't have it open. Usually, I just want to type `sudo` real quick and just be done, which means right now my password is miserably low quality.

Like, what's a good way to balance having a strong password but not being annoyed by needing to frequently enter it over and over?

Use something like Prand0m9a$$!

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005


RFC2324 posted:

I use a sentence. Makes it easier to hit 20 characters and still be comfortable to type.

Yup. Do this. Longer passwords that are easier to remember and type are better than complexity.

DelphiAegis
Jun 21, 2010


I use passphrases like the other posters, writing l1k3 th15, then if a change is needed, I select a (or multiple) words to hold shift when typing, so something like 'th15' turns into 'TH!%' but it's still an easy phrase to remember and type. Not sure if you're forced to change your sudo password or not, but that method has served me well on many sets of credentials to remember.

Bonus is that if you're doing 90 day expiry is that you can simply write the reminder of the phrase, using the first one/two letters of each word, to remind you of the sequence and the capitalization scheme you used for that 90 day period.

Of course, cue the security expects to poke holes in my methodology. I welcome that, though, I don't want my stuff to get owned.

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

http 418



DelphiAegis posted:

I use passphrases like the other posters, writing l1k3 th15, then if a change is needed, I select a (or multiple) words to hold shift when typing, so something like 'th15' turns into 'TH!%' but it's still an easy phrase to remember and type. Not sure if you're forced to change your sudo password or not, but that method has served me well on many sets of credentials to remember.

Bonus is that if you're doing 90 day expiry is that you can simply write the reminder of the phrase, using the first one/two letters of each word, to remind you of the sequence and the capitalization scheme you used for that 90 day period.

Of course, cue the security expects to poke holes in my methodology. I welcome that, though, I don't want my stuff to get owned.

I like coming up with a new sentence every time, tho to be clear its a whole sentence, with spaces and punctuation. Its usually whatever I am thinking when I change the password, so frequently an expression of exasperation.

also, Expressions of Exasperation is my new band name

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013

HAIL SATAN



RFC2324 posted:

Its usually whatever I am thinking when I change the password, so frequently an expression of exasperation.

I have to have so many passwords for work that some of them have been evolving into variants of "this is loving onerous" or "you've got to be loving kidding."

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

http 418



CaptainSarcastic posted:

I have to have so many passwords for work that some of them have been evolving into variants of "this is loving onerous" or "you've got to be loving kidding."

I only have 2. One to log into my workstation, and one to unlock my keepass vault. everything else is in keepass and is randomly generated because gently caress trying to fit multiple memorable passwords around federal compliance every 60 days

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013

HAIL SATAN



RFC2324 posted:

I only have 2. One to log into my workstation, and one to unlock my keepass vault. everything else is in keepass and is randomly generated because gently caress trying to fit multiple memorable passwords around federal compliance every 60 days

I've been thinking I should pull the trigger and get a password manager, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I need something I can use with Linux, Windows, Android, and ideally Chrome. Every loving forced password change is moving me closer to actually making the

Methanar
Sep 26, 2013
ASK ME ABOUT NOT TIPPING DELIVERY DRIVERS, OR ABOUT MY DIET OF CANNED BABY CORN AND CHICKEN NUGGETS

god I hate typing my password

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005


CaptainSarcastic posted:

I've been thinking I should pull the trigger and get a password manager, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I need something I can use with Linux, Windows, Android, and ideally Chrome. Every loving forced password change is moving me closer to actually making the

Do it. It's life changing. 1Password should fit the bill.

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

http 418



CaptainSarcastic posted:

I've been thinking I should pull the trigger and get a password manager, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I need something I can use with Linux, Windows, Android, and ideally Chrome. Every loving forced password change is moving me closer to actually making the

do it. if you need convenience, 1password, but keepass is more secure, and double clicking to put it in the clipboard for 10 seconds is just second nature for me now.

Bourricot
Aug 7, 2016



CaptainSarcastic posted:

I've been thinking I should pull the trigger and get a password manager, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I need something I can use with Linux, Windows, Android, and ideally Chrome. Every loving forced password change is moving me closer to actually making the

Bitwarden is really good. And you can self-host, if you prefer.

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

http 418



Bourricot posted:

Bitwarden is really good. And you can self-host, if you prefer.

I should check out bitwarden, I keep hearing good things

pseudorandom
Jun 16, 2010




Yam Slacker

CaptainSarcastic posted:

I've been thinking I should pull the trigger and get a password manager, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I need something I can use with Linux, Windows, Android, and ideally Chrome. Every loving forced password change is moving me closer to actually making the

I really like Keepass and dropping the database in onedrive/dropbox/etc. I use the official Keepass app on Windows and Linux, and KeePassium on iOS. There's a handful of decent options for Android, but I don't know any specifically.

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

http 418



pseudorandom posted:

I really like Keepass and dropping the database in onedrive/dropbox/etc. I use the official Keepass app on Windows and Linux, and KeePassium on iOS. There's a handful of decent options for Android, but I don't know any specifically.

Keepass2Android is good. It can sync directly with cloud storage like google drive

The Milkman
Jun 22, 2003

No one here is alone,
satellites in every home


CaptainSarcastic posted:

I've been thinking I should pull the trigger and get a password manager, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I need something I can use with Linux, Windows, Android, and ideally Chrome. Every loving forced password change is moving me closer to actually making the

1Password is the nicest but most expensive. Bitwarden has a pretty good free tier with a cheap premium option (or you can run your own vault server if you care to). Keepass is free with BYO sync. Do not use Lastpass.

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013

HAIL SATAN



Thanks for the suggestions. I'll look into further, but at a glance it looks like 1password might have the added benefit of something I can spring for a family plan and force my mom and stepdad to use it. Just having a password manager would solve at least 3/4 of the tech support requests I get from them. They both have iPhones and my stepdad uses Macs, so having those supported would be nice.

Perplx
Jun 26, 2004


Best viewed on Orgasma Plasma

Lipstick Apathy

My commonly typed passwords use only the left half of they keyboard and I only use shift for the first or last letter.

Storm One
Jan 12, 2011


Floss Finder

pseudorandom posted:

since being prompted for a password is so common in Linux having to copy and paste that would be inconvenient, or impossible if the situation means I can't have it open. Usually, I just want to type `sudo` real quick and just be done, which means right now my password is miserably low quality.

My user password is <30 bits, my root password is not much stronger.

As long as you use full disk encryption on your root partition with a really good password (60+ bits entropy, but you only type it once when booting) to thwart offline brute-forcing, it doesn't matter that your user password is low quality because it can't be online brute forced, the OS should have mitigations against that (if it doesn't then fix it ASAP).

Try inputting a wrong password and observe how long you have to wait between retries.

Buck Turgidson
Feb 6, 2011


may or may not be an option, but you can edit sudoers and increase the password timeout, or set NOPASSWD

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

http 418



Buck Turgidson posted:

may or may not be an option, but you can edit sudoers and increase the password timeout, or set NOPASSWD

This is the answer. Set a longer timeout, but more importantly set commands that you don't want to have to auth for to NOPASSWD. OpenSUSE restrcts reboot to root only for some reason, so the easy solution was to set it that way

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



Here's a slightly interesting fact about the BSDs:
Being in the operator group (id 5) means you can shut down the system without being root or using sudo.

Also, relatedly (and something I've blogged about): src/sbin/shutdown/shutdown.c contains a reference to one of Steve Martins comedy routines about gravy sucking pig dogs.

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

http 418



BlankSystemDaemon posted:

Here's a slightly interesting fact about the BSDs:
Being in the operator group (id 5) means you can shut down the system without being root or using sudo.

Also, relatedly (and something I've blogged about): src/sbin/shutdown/shutdown.c contains a reference to one of Steve Martins comedy routines about gravy sucking pig dogs.

Also true in most linuxes! (tho I think it might be wheel group)

its actually weird that OpenSUSE does it this way, and probably my biggest gripe.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



RFC2324 posted:

Also true in most linuxes! (tho I think it might be wheel group)

its actually weird that OpenSUSE does it this way, and probably my biggest gripe.
Yeah, I'm fairly sure it's the wheel group for anything that isn't descended from BSD, whereas on the BSDs, the wheel group is typically what gets you access to sudo (I hear some distributions use a 'sudo' group for this?).

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


code:
Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sdb1       7,1T  2,8T  1,6T  65% /mnt/Storage
Something doesn't quite add up here

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

http 418



BlankSystemDaemon posted:

Yeah, I'm fairly sure it's the wheel group for anything that isn't descended from BSD, whereas on the BSDs, the wheel group is typically what gets you access to sudo (I hear some distributions use a 'sudo' group for this?).

wheel is actually the commented out default in the sudoers file, and some distros have their own line, I've seen sudo, admin, and a couple just straight put the username you selected at install time explicitly. its just a line in an etc file, so it goes all over the place

e: OpenSUSE makes it wheel, raspian and ubuntu make it sudo, and CentOS has wheel.

RFC2324 fucked around with this message at 21:49 on May 5, 2021

Shadow0
Jun 16, 2008


Grimey Drawer

I'm fairly new to Linux and can't figure out how to solve an audio problem I've been having. I'm using Xubuntu. I have two audio ports in front of my computer - a microphone and headphone jack; I've never gotten them to work. I read that sometimes the front panels don't work with Linux for some reason. Well, then I tried the back panel. I have a bunch of options. I tried them all. At some point, my audio wasn't coming out either my speakers nor my headphones, but straight into Discord. My friend could hear my computer, but I couldn't. I tried installing all kinds of things. I tried AlsaMixer, PulseAudio, the works. I looked at so many different fixes. Including how I might need to override the startup and the BIOS etc. The speakers usually work, but the headphones are way more challenging. They are the kind with one cable for the microphone and headphones, so I have a splitter, if that matters. I actually got it kind of working at one point, but then today, it suddenly didn't. I really want to like Linux, but why is this so difficult?

Shadow0 fucked around with this message at 06:55 on May 6, 2021

Gajarga
Nov 5, 2006


KozmoNaut posted:

code:
Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sdb1       7,1T  2,8T  1,6T  65% /mnt/Storage
Something doesn't quite add up here

If you have something running that's still using 'deleted' files the space isn't free'd till it lets go. If you do something like

code:
sudo lsof | grep DEL
you might find something hoarding the dead

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013

HAIL SATAN



Shadow0 posted:

I'm fairly new to Linux and can't figure out how to solve an audio problem I've been having. I'm using Xubuntu. I have two audio ports in front of my computer - a microphone and headphone jack; I've never gotten them to work. I read that sometimes the front panels don't work with Linux for some reason. Well, then I tried the back panel. I have a bunch of options. I tried them all. At some point, my audio wasn't coming out either my speakers nor my headphones, but straight into Discord. My friend could hear my computer, but I couldn't. I tried installing all kinds of things. I tried AlsaMixer, PulseAudio, the works. I looked at so many different fixes. Including how I might need to override the startup and the BIOS etc. The speakers usually work, but the headphones are way more challenging. They are the kind with one cable for the microphone and headphones, so I have a splitter, if that matters. I actually got it kind of working at one point, but then today, it suddenly didn't. I really want to like Linux, but why is this so difficult?

What hardware are you running? It sounds like you are running sound off the motherboard - do you know what audio chipset it has? I haven't used Xfce in a while, but don't remember sound being a significant hassle with it.

Also, did the front ports work using Windows? And did the sound behave in general using Windows?

CaptainSarcastic fucked around with this message at 07:42 on May 6, 2021

Computer viking
May 30, 2011
Now with less breakage.

Depending on the filesystem it could also be snapshots; they don't really fit in a simple used/free listing and often confuse such matters.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Gajarga posted:

If you have something running that's still using 'deleted' files the space isn't free'd till it lets go. If you do something like

code:
sudo lsof | grep DEL
you might find something hoarding the dead

Computer viking posted:

Depending on the filesystem it could also be snapshots; they don't really fit in a simple used/free listing and often confuse such matters.

Nothing obvious showing up in lsof (and the machine has been rebooted, with no change) and I only have snapshots on root, not the storage array.

Pretty sure it's just btrfs being weird, let's see if I hit some invisible barrier as I add files.

Truga
May 4, 2014




Lipstick Apathy

use btrfs' own df command, it's "btrfs filesystem df" iirc

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


You get more info from 'filesystem usage' than from 'filesystem df'.

The issue is that I added a new disk that is almost as big as all the disks already in there, put together. So the space allocation is skewed and that seems to confuse everything. The space is there, it just doesn't show in basic tools.

code:
# btrfs fi u /mnt/Storage 
Overall:
    Device size:                  12.74TiB
    Device allocated:              4.96TiB
    Device unallocated:            7.78TiB
    Device missing:                  0.00B
    Used:                          4.96TiB
    Free (estimated):              3.89TiB      (min: 3.89TiB)
    Data ratio:                       2.00
    Metadata ratio:                   2.00
    Global reserve:              512.00MiB      (used: 0.00B)
Everything checks out internally (I assume it hasn't allocated all of the space yet, since I haven't needed it yet), but that's not as funny as the wildly off values you get with plain vanilla 'df -h'.

KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 10:02 on May 6, 2021

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Truga
May 4, 2014




Lipstick Apathy

yeah, it's great. i don't get why distros don't just alias df to btrfs' own when they detect it tho

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