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Themata
Dec 10, 2011

If you want a pizza this pie
You can crust that
I won't cheese on you
Dance on the groove flour
And I'll give you a disco-unt


I looked at your post history and I'm getting the impression Ajax is sort of a stand in for a dog that worked for some time, but not as much now that you see the possibility of a bigger space? I mean I can't think of many rabbits that like being picked up even if they'll let you, but it sounds like for a rabbit he's perfectly cuddly if he'll do things like lick you awake in the morning. Some people's rabbits wouldn't even consider it.

I would try taking him to a local rabbit shelter if you can and see if they're willing to do speed dating so you know how he actually does with other rabbits. It sounds like he's an rear end in a top hat (no surprise with rabbits) but also very sweet, which sounds to me like he'd do well with the right friend and process. You'd also get to see a bit more variety of personality in person which is always nice for perspective. For me at least it solidified how special I feel about my little idiot.

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Thumbtacks
Apr 3, 2013


I think after we move I'll look into speed dating, he REALLY didn't like being around other rabbits when we first adopted him but I think a lot of that was because he didn't have his own space, now that he pretty much does I think he'd be more open to it.

I also think he might do well with some company, although I think we'd have to train them to use different litter boxes or something since he's comically selfish about his personal space.

RichterIX
Apr 11, 2003

I'm going to kill myself tomorrow.

Lillian has never pooped outside of her enclosure even once, even when we first rescued her, but she tends to poop everywhere inside her enclosure and not just in her litterbox. The majority is in the litterbox, but not all of it. Is there something I can do to be like "poop in an even more specific place please"? It's not a huge deal but it makes me have to drag the shop vac out almost every day if I don't want it to look like we are just letting her live in an ex-pen full of poop.

Themata
Dec 10, 2011

If you want a pizza this pie
You can crust that
I won't cheese on you
Dance on the groove flour
And I'll give you a disco-unt


Thumbtacks posted:

I think after we move I'll look into speed dating, he REALLY didn't like being around other rabbits when we first adopted him but I think a lot of that was because he didn't have his own space, now that he pretty much does I think he'd be more open to it.

I also think he might do well with some company, although I think we'd have to train them to use different litter boxes or something since he's comically selfish about his personal space.

Hopefully he turns out to like some bunny company better now! I'm sure he'll definitely throw a huge fit even if he finds one he really loves - he'll just have to learn to accept and share.

RichterIX posted:

Lillian has never pooped outside of her enclosure even once, even when we first rescued her, but she tends to poop everywhere inside her enclosure and not just in her litterbox. The majority is in the litterbox, but not all of it. Is there something I can do to be like "poop in an even more specific place please"? It's not a huge deal but it makes me have to drag the shop vac out almost every day if I don't want it to look like we are just letting her live in an ex-pen full of poop.

Other than trying dropping it into her litterbox, I think you just have to accept it's how rabbits claim their space. Anyone who knows rabbits would know it's not a sign of neglect.

Nancy does the same with her space (a mat with no enclosure) and interestingly, I noticed she slowly starts to expand her poops further and further out if they don't get cleaned for a while, but tidying it up makes her start her conquest all over again from the starting point. I also see poops fly sometimes when she jumps out of her litterbox so it can't be 100% intentional.

Deadite
Aug 30, 2003

A fat guy, a watermelon, and a stack of magazines?
Family.


I wish I could find a vacuum attachment with a blade in it that would mulch long pieces of hay. The worst part of vacuuming up after my rabbits is stopping to unclog the vacuum hose.

Sassy Sasquatch
Feb 28, 2013

If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine.



Deadite posted:

I wish I could find a vacuum attachment with a blade in it that would mulch long pieces of hay. The worst part of vacuuming up after my rabbits is stopping to unclog the vacuum hose.

Holy crap, this. I set up all her hay in a cardboard box now so at least that's faster to clean up



(modular bunny box/toy/anti-hooman shelter/hay rack/attack dummy pictured in the background)

Themata
Dec 10, 2011

If you want a pizza this pie
You can crust that
I won't cheese on you
Dance on the groove flour
And I'll give you a disco-unt


We ended up returning the rabbit we tried to bond Nancy with back to the shelter. He hated any attempt made to bond with him. I stopped trying to pet him when it became clear he saw us humans as nothing more than food receptacles, but my partner kept trying even though he'd shove her away or nip her.

He also hated being prevented from doing what he wanted. I tried to teach him not to nip after feeding him fruit (e.g. do a high pitched sound to indicate pain) and he hated that enough on the next feeding, he immediately bit my finger so hard, his teeth instantly cracked into my nail (the part with the nerves) and tried to keep at it even with all the blood pouring out.

We would've kept trying to bond if at least Nancy seemed happier, but it gradually wore down to her avoiding him, coming to me for attention, and withdrawing and refusing pellets until we spent time with her. She was also there when he bit through my nail, and really started avoiding him/withdrawing after that. Any doubt I had though that I made a serious mistake taking him back were quickly erased when the night he was gone, she did zoomies around the apartment faster and crazier than I'd seen in a long time, along with those happy little bee buzzing oinks.

He obliterated what would normally be a 2 month hay supply in 2 weeks, created a shitload of laundry, and a finger that'll probably take weeks to heal. We are also the third family to bring him back to the shelter, so that's probably a sign. I'd hate to know what he was like pre-neuter.

He did leave us though with a greater appreciation of Nancy and vice versa through his antisocial jerkery. My partner finally understood why I've encouraged her constantly to bond more with Nancy when, after another one of her many attempts to bond with the jerk was rejected, Nancy came over on cue, seeing her upset, and licked to comfort her. Seeing her spontaneously pet and spend time with Nancy now where she didn't before is a big plus. Now we just need to find a rabbit who is just as loving as her but submissive so I can stop being woken up at 6 in the morning with her laying on my stomach.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



Themata posted:

We ended up returning the rabbit we tried to bond Nancy with back to the shelter. He hated any attempt made to bond with him. I stopped trying to pet him when it became clear he saw us humans as nothing more than food receptacles, but my partner kept trying even though he'd shove her away or nip her.

He also hated being prevented from doing what he wanted. I tried to teach him not to nip after feeding him fruit (e.g. do a high pitched sound to indicate pain) and he hated that enough on the next feeding, he immediately bit my finger so hard, his teeth instantly cracked into my nail (the part with the nerves) and tried to keep at it even with all the blood pouring out.

We would've kept trying to bond if at least Nancy seemed happier, but it gradually wore down to her avoiding him, coming to me for attention, and withdrawing and refusing pellets until we spent time with her. She was also there when he bit through my nail, and really started avoiding him/withdrawing after that. Any doubt I had though that I made a serious mistake taking him back were quickly erased when the night he was gone, she did zoomies around the apartment faster and crazier than I'd seen in a long time, along with those happy little bee buzzing oinks.

He obliterated what would normally be a 2 month hay supply in 2 weeks, created a shitload of laundry, and a finger that'll probably take weeks to heal. We are also the third family to bring him back to the shelter, so that's probably a sign. I'd hate to know what he was like pre-neuter.

He did leave us though with a greater appreciation of Nancy and vice versa through his antisocial jerkery. My partner finally understood why I've encouraged her constantly to bond more with Nancy when, after another one of her many attempts to bond with the jerk was rejected, Nancy came over on cue, seeing her upset, and licked to comfort her. Seeing her spontaneously pet and spend time with Nancy now where she didn't before is a big plus. Now we just need to find a rabbit who is just as loving as her but submissive so I can stop being woken up at 6 in the morning with her laying on my stomach.

dude you’re seriously overthinking how emotionally deep and intelligent rabbits are and ascribing really human motivations to them

not to be a shithead but this post is giving me major ‘ending of the movie Best in Show’ vibes

“he was a toxic rabbit, abusive, selfish, an overeater, just a poor team player” lmao

“he only saw us as food receptacles” like yeah no poo poo. 1) he’s a rabbit 2) you had him for like a month when you concluded that

dollars to donuts he was probably incredibly stressed because your whole home (and you, probably) is scented by your existing bun. It’s nigh impossible to set up a neutral space if everything smells like it belongs to the existing rabbit and has been claimed as territory. Ideally you want the territory/enclosure to feel completely brand new to both rabbits. That can be stressful and destabilizing for the existing bun, but it’s crucial that they both start out as strangers in a new space. In order to feel safe and build a healthy relationship they both need to start out on even footing.

Otherwise you’re introducing them with a serious power imbalance in place. Rabbit 1 has an established home and Rabbit 2 is the (forced) intruder who has to immediately step up and conquer or submit, or potentially kill/chase away or be killed/chased away. Likewise it can be equally stressful for the rabbit whose territory has now been “invaded”.

Also bonding takes weeks, months even, and it doesn’t mean that the rabbits will never squabble or potentially relapse a bit.

Also you will quite possibly have to crate-bond. That doesn’t necessarily mean that the rabbit in question is a “bad fit” or that you’re a bad owner for doing it.

Also if he was eating exclusively hay then that’s probably due to the move from the shelter. Plenty of rabbits display picky eating and food preferences and it can often take weeks of weaning, mixing different ratios of kibble, and so forth. I had one rabbit who would only ever eat one brand of kibble at a time and refuse all others. I switched him from Kaytee to Oxbow to Rabbit15 to Oxbow again and each time took like a month for him to adjust. Good shelters will send you home with a baggie of the rabbit’s current chow so you can ease them into whatever you have at home.

I dunno, maybe I’m frustrated because I’ve had rabbits that came in like that and they do chill out and potentially become awesome pets and bondmates but you have to put in the work. Sometimes it takes 3, 4, 5 months+.

If you’re expecting a hunky dory process where the rabbits are immediately nice to each other and to you then you’re probably going to be very disheartened. A lot of what you’re describing does sound like the rabbit’s inherent prickly personality, but a lot more of it sounds like basic stress and you shouldn’t be surprised if other potential bondmates wind up behaving the same way.

Again I’m sorry if this is coming off brusque or aggressive. Mostly I’m brain dumping. At the end of the day he’s the rabbit and you’re the human so he gets the benefit of the doubt.

Themata
Dec 10, 2011

If you want a pizza this pie
You can crust that
I won't cheese on you
Dance on the groove flour
And I'll give you a disco-unt


Thanks for your input. I do think it starts off seeming brusque and aggressive, but I see what you're saying. It wasn't as if I went into it thinking everything would be an instant hit or not doing reading up, but I definitely did freak out when Nancy started outright withdrawing. There were no doubt mistakes made during the bonding process and unfortunately the closest thing to neutral spaces nearby are the bathrooms and kitchens (no friends nearby yet without dogs and cats either cause we moved states). I'll be a lot more careful with everything when we try again. I don't know if crate bonding means keeping them side by side in enclosures (quick Google seems to suggest yes?), but if that's what it'll take, I'll let her hate me for a while.

As far as new rabbit went, we did look for signs he was scared or on guard, but he actually seemed really nonchalant about almost everything - even car rides didn't faze him. Nancy was definitely angry about him arriving at first, but even after she chilled out, he didn't seem to care about much of anything, other than eating and lazing about (to be clear, he had no issues at all with eating whatever hay/pellets/fruit & veggies he was presented) and demanding licks from her sometimes.

And as far as attributing too much humanness to rabbits, you're probably right! At some point I did start to do that a lot with Nancy, probably especially when she was the only living being I saw for long stretches of time. But I mean, I don't think it's a stretch to say some rabbits are probably a lot more emotionally intelligent and aware than some people (myself included).

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



Themata posted:

Thanks for your input. I do think it starts off seeming brusque and aggressive, but I see what you're saying. It wasn't as if I went into it thinking everything would be an instant hit or not doing reading up, but I definitely did freak out when Nancy started outright withdrawing. There were no doubt mistakes made during the bonding process and unfortunately the closest thing to neutral spaces nearby are the bathrooms and kitchens (no friends nearby yet without dogs and cats either cause we moved states). I'll be a lot more careful with everything when we try again. I don't know if crate bonding means keeping them side by side in enclosures (quick Google seems to suggest yes?), but if that's what it'll take, I'll let her hate me for a while.

As far as new rabbit went, we did look for signs he was scared or on guard, but he actually seemed really nonchalant about almost everything - even car rides didn't faze him. Nancy was definitely angry about him arriving at first, but even after she chilled out, he didn't seem to care about much of anything, other than eating and lazing about (to be clear, he had no issues at all with eating whatever hay/pellets/fruit & veggies he was presented) and demanding licks from her sometimes.

And as far as attributing too much humanness to rabbits, you're probably right! At some point I did start to do that a lot with Nancy, probably especially when she was the only living being I saw for long stretches of time. But I mean, I don't think it's a stretch to say some rabbits are probably a lot more emotionally intelligent and aware than some people (myself included).

yeah, I’m a bit hypomanic today and I apologize. It’s 4PM and time for weed so I’ll mellow out shortly.

What I meant by crate bonding is when you put the two buns in a crate or hamper or dark box (ideally one where they cannot see or preferably smell you—or they will hate you for a bit. Some people even disguise their scent when they do it or try to leave the room, or get a friend to do it) and make them huddle with each other.

You do this by placing the box next to/atop the washing machine or dryer or right next to the vacuum, play the stereo super loud, etc, something that will scare them into forgetting their differences. Of course, you have to be ready to swoop in if it looks like trouble. Possibly more harrowing for Nancy than what you had in mind, but she’d get over it if you do it right.

Cage stuff (what you described) is good and important too. Putting their cages next to each other (with enough space between that they can’t touch and potentially bite each other’s lips off) so they familiarize with each other’s smell and associate it with home. Swapping bedding/blankets/hides between the two enclosures so that their scents mix. Putting soiled litter from one rabbit’s box into the other so that they get used to sharing a bathroom (bonded rabbits will also readily eat each other’s poops and cecotropes).

Also a fun grooming trick if grooming is one-sided/one rabbit appears too dominant for a healthy bond pair and won’t groom back is to smush a little bit of banana or berry or whatever on the head of the rabbit you want groomed.

Sassy Sasquatch
Feb 28, 2013

If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine.



Reading that horror story I feel happy that my families' rabbits never gave a poo poo about each other.
Anyway, time to post bunny ASMR to lighten the mood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woE0ZJUzbsY

replay at 0.25 speed for maximum effect

Themata
Dec 10, 2011

If you want a pizza this pie
You can crust that
I won't cheese on you
Dance on the groove flour
And I'll give you a disco-unt


Ok Comboomer posted:

Helpful tips

Thanks for this! It definitely sounds like crate bonding will be needed and I will keep the stuff we haven't tried in mind or go for it more aggressively (swapping scented items/litter). Nancy is free roam and still managed to chill about another rabbit's presence, so I'll consider caging her a little more conservatively (it was originally suggested we let her stay free roam instead of caging both, we just had to be much more vigilant about blockades). Also interesting to know rabbits will eat non-ceco poops, I didn't know that was normal!

To help further with lighten things up, Nancy loves to shove herself between her toys or sit next to them. She'll do this when relaxed, or immediately after being scolded for being naughty.
Former:

(water bottles are barely filled so she has things to knock over. Dominoes used to work great at my previous place but less viable now cause the carpet here is softer)

Latter:

Thumbtacks
Apr 3, 2013


We’ve started training ajax to let us pick him up. He is EXTREMELY upset by this development and the realization that he doesn’t actually own us or run this house and we’re bigger than him and can do what we want. He’s coming to terms with it but he’s definitely not happy about it.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Ok Comboomer posted:

What I meant by crate bonding is when you put the two buns in a crate or hamper or dark box (ideally one where they cannot see or preferably smell you—or they will hate you for a bit. Some people even disguise their scent when they do it or try to leave the room, or get a friend to do it) and make them huddle with each other.

You do this by placing the box next to/atop the washing machine or dryer or right next to the vacuum, play the stereo super loud, etc, something that will scare them into forgetting their differences. Of course, you have to be ready to swoop in if it looks like trouble. Possibly more harrowing for Nancy than what you had in mind, but she’d get over it if you do it right.
Oh. I think Bert and Ernie were basically crate bonded their entire lives before they got to the shelter. That explains a lot.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



Halloween Jack posted:

Oh. I think Bert and Ernie were basically crate bonded their entire lives before they got to the shelter. That explains a lot.

?

are they just super bonded? look through my post history here and you’ll spot stories of a pair I had that were adorably rabbit-married

crate bonding I’ve also seen called “trauma bonding” in some places (that’s overblown, all rabbits should be trained to eventually stop fearing the vacuum) or “stress bonding”, you are kind of applying basic interrogation/brainwashing techniques.

Make of that what you will.

Just be sure to reward them heavily after you do it and don’t overuse it (it loses efficacy once they’re happy with each other and used to whatever device you’re using to generate stress

A less stressful/more practical method is just to put them together and then clean the enclosure/around the enclosure. That’s usually something that humans and rabbits have to deal with anyway so it’s a

also stuff like heads of lettuce, big piles of veg, etc are good rapport-building treats/meals. I’d buy like inexpensive bags of romaine lettuce heads at Costco or Trader Joe’s or the supermarket. It’s a big, enriching food item that gives them something to nosh on together, gives them enough space to where they can kinda control their distance and personal space a bit if they want, and they can break it apart and separate if desired. Just generally a good chill meal. I like overfeeding a bit during bonding, it’s a good way to increase endorphins and quality time between the two with little effort and you get to watch happy rabbits eat novel foods. Everybody wins.

fat (not obese) rabbits are generally more relaxed rabbits and they’re just better all around anyway. Nobody gets a rabbit to make it look lean and sleek.

I don’t love it when they get big dewlaps tho, it makes them look like little cows

..........
...............

Also give lots of toys (paper bag full of shredded paper, toilet paper tube “puzzles”, actual rabbit puzzles (chewy sells a relatively cheap one) and hides and generally try to enrich their environment as much as possible without overwhelming them (although that might be good? Idk).

A bare, empty space with just another unbonded rabbit is a fighting ring. It’s stressful for them and likelier to make them aggressive and less able to bond. Multiple hides at various distances give multiple retreat points (heck I like using carriers for that, also if you’re using an ex pen you can binder clip paper grocery bags to the bars to make tents and caves. I like those cardboard multilevel rabbit castles too- just be careful that you can get at them if they’re both inside and something bad goes down.

Also I didn’t mention this before, but aside from swapping cage contents you can/should also swap cages. Some people will get to week 3 or 4 and start swapping where each rabbit gets put every night, or every 2/3/4 nights, etc. First switch them with their litter boxes (you should be mixing litter at least a little bit at this point), then leave the litter boxes where they are and just switch the buns.

Always watch them for feedback and move forward/backward/stay steady as looks appropriate. If a rabbit flips out and outright refuses to use their litter box when it smells too different or stops eating, etc then go back for a few days or a week.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




What I mean by the crate bonding thing is: I was told they were liberated from some dumbfuck who kept them together in a cage the size of a shoebox.

They've just taken a lot of work to come out of their shell and get comfortable with me, and they still don't run to me for scritches. They very rarely binky around, usually only when they think I'm not watching. They're very bonded and will spend about half their time laying on each other.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



Halloween Jack posted:

What I mean by the crate bonding thing is: I was told they were liberated from some dumbfuck who kept them together in a cage the size of a shoebox.

They've just taken a lot of work to come out of their shell and get comfortable with me, and they still don't run to me for scritches. They very rarely binky around, usually only when they think I'm not watching. They're very bonded and will spend about half their time laying on each other.

ah

yeah, that's unfortunately common for a lot of rabbits. If you pick one up at a rescue in the summer then there's a good chance it was a christmas or easter gift, kept in a petco cage, and left to the mercy and judgment of an eight year old.

are they free roam or do they have an enclosure/pen? rabbits in pens don't always work in main living/TV spaces but it's good to have a big ex-pen wherever you spend a bulk of time. Or with free roamers to temporarily pen them into the room you spend time in. It could be working or watching TV/gaming, the point is to just spend lots (loooots) of time with them where they aren't the focus of attention. If a rabbit lives in a pen and you only ever go near the pen to do rabbit business (i.e. disturb the rabbit and stir poo poo up) or even to merely gawp and stare at the cute bun, then the rabbit's never going to entirely calm down around you.They're always going to expect you to mess with them. Just make sure to set up the pen or room with hay/food/water/hides/toilet/toys if they're going to be there for any length of time.

Being an absolute treat dispenser can also work wonders. Mix things up and don't give your rabbit sugar diarrhea and cramps by giving them 15 yogurt drops in a day. Dried fruit chips and chopped veg (celery or carrots chopped into blocks) are nice, the best is if you have a rabbit so food-motivated he'll take kibble as treats.

Also a lot of rabbit speed is connected to footing and surface. I've noticed that even really happy rabbits binky way less on stuff like hardwood.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




They have an enclosure here in our home office. I work from home 3 days a week, so that's three days I spend most of my time sitting next to them. I also like to sit in their enclosure until they realize I'm not a threat and start climbing me, but they're always hesitant. It's all baby steps.I'm working on "field trips" to let them run around the sunroom upstairs and the living room downstairs, but they always seem scared of new and unfamiliar places, so I don't do it as often as I'd like.

I give them dried papaya chips or raisins before bed. Lately it's been raisins, since I buy papaya from the shelter and haven't been for several weeks. I don't use yogurt drops anymore. (Over the past month, I've had problems with my other pets. A raccoon killed two of my pet chickens, two weeks apart, so my weekends have been spent cleaning up after chickens living in my laundry room, fixing up the coop, and trapping a raccoon.)

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



Halloween Jack posted:

They have an enclosure here in our home office. I work from home 3 days a week, so that's three days I spend most of my time sitting next to them. I also like to sit in their enclosure until they realize I'm not a threat and start climbing me, but they're always hesitant. It's all baby steps.I'm working on "field trips" to let them run around the sunroom upstairs and the living room downstairs, but they always seem scared of new and unfamiliar places, so I don't do it as often as I'd like.

Just pop an ex pen (with the requisite libations and accessories) down in the sunroom/etc and leave ‘em there for like 6 hours (I put two ex pens together, btw, so there’s lots of space to run around and actually hop/etc). They come around.

Then gradually work until you can take the pen away (usually a couple stays in the pen and then they’ve gotten a lay of the land and want to explore the places they’ve been staring at).

I personally don’t love unsupervised free-roam because my rabbits have always been very mouthy and chewy with novel objects and cables (before my ex and I got together one of her rabbits got out of his pen in her bedroom one day and destroyed like $150 in sex toys that he found in a bin under her bed, along with some bottles of shampoo, the bag that his Timothy hay came in, a book, and some other poo poo I’m not remembering.

But I’d love a rabbit one day who can free roam, that’d be rad.

I’m sorry that a bandit-mammal has been eating your fat tiny dinosaurs. my condolences

clear eyes full farts
Jul 3, 2007

the uk is just awful
It's a fake democracy
with free education and healthcare as long as you are a dosser and I am trapped here



One weird trick to prevent rabbits chewing everything: adopt one with no front teeth

FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011



clear eyes full farts posted:

One weird trick to prevent rabbits chewing everything: adopt one with no front teeth
We had to have our second rabbit's front teeth removed when he was young because they were growing in wrong. He still tries to chew on cords - he just sits there pointlessly gumming them.

pseudonordic
Aug 31, 2003

The Jack of All Trades

clear eyes full farts posted:

One weird trick to prevent rabbits chewing everything: adopt one with no front teeth

We caught our bun, Cilantro, out front of our townhouse after several weeks of spottings and reconnaissance. Once we got her to a vet, we learned she’d had a hairline jaw fracture which got infected and resulted in us eventually having all of her incisors and peg teeth removed as the infection spread to her tooth roots.

She couldn’t chew on anything so we gave her run of the house when we were home.

I miss that bun.

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

http 418



after volunteering at a shelter for almost a year, and acting as a quarantine home for a few months, I have given in and am adopting a pair. Not entirely sure who yet, but probably this sweet giant girl(13lbs last I saw) and I asked for them to figure out a lop to pair her with.



clear eyes full farts posted:

One weird trick to prevent rabbits chewing everything: adopt one with no front teeth

we actually have one that I would love to adopt, but having to chop her veggies that fine every day would make me crazy

clear eyes full farts
Jul 3, 2007

the uk is just awful
It's a fake democracy
with free education and healthcare as long as you are a dosser and I am trapped here



i feed mine horse pellets (grass and alfafa, no additives), just add a bit of water to soften them up, thats the majority of their food then some burges rabbit food for whatever other nutrients they need, surprisingly easy

have tried chopping herbs/leaves in the past but they struggle to eat them too much and i do feel bad for them when the other rabbit is eating fresh grass, you can tell he is really interested but is just too nervous to try eating it

(of course i wouldnt recommend feeding horse pellet mush to a rabbit that didnt already have severe dental issues)

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

http 418



All I really know about feeding them I learned at the shelter, so I just give them some pellets, some hay, and a stack of greens and carrots. When you say grass do you mean hay or fescue?

clear eyes full farts
Jul 3, 2007

the uk is just awful
It's a fake democracy
with free education and healthcare as long as you are a dosser and I am trapped here



meadow grass, its this stuff

https://www.dengie.com/horse-feeds/grass-range/grass-pellets/

and then also some of this (but not as much) as he seems to prefer the flavour

https://www.dengie.com/horse-feeds/pelleted-fibres/alfalfa-pellets/

Thumbtacks
Apr 3, 2013


Shouldn’t feed rabbits carrots more often than a nice treat, bad for them long term. Cartoons lied

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

http 418



Thumbtacks posted:

Shouldn’t feed rabbits carrots more often than a nice treat, bad for them long term. Cartoons lied

Huh, they are part of the daily meal at the shelter. Not as bulk or anything, just as a 'every rabbit gets a chunk' so I assumed they were good for teeth to chew on

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



RFC2324 posted:

Huh, they are part of the daily meal at the shelter. Not as bulk or anything, just as a 'every rabbit gets a chunk' so I assumed they were good for teeth to chew on

they're sugary, but definitely better than fruit.

a lot of rabbits are prone to obesity if they can't get enough movement in (like if they're in a cage all the time) and sugar intake doesn't help with that. Also risk of stuff like insulin insensitivity/diabetes-type illness and tooth decay rises with increased sugar intake.

At the end of the day, rabbits are wired to graze and to extract calories and nutrients from generally tough, low-content plant matter--the green stuff, grass, bark, tough leaves, etc. They eat hay. They spend a lot of time eating and re-eating their food, food that many other mammals like rodents and most primates and certainly any omnivores or carnivores wouldn't be able to meaningfully extract value from.

So when you give rabbits something like a tuber, which is basically a calorie battery that a plant makes, they get a lot out of it. And if you give them a lot of tubers, very frequently, their little bodies don't handle it well and their gut flora go all crazy.

TLDR: rabbits weren't built for a post-colonial diet

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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Huh, never thought of carrots as being in the tuber category, but that makes sense.

drat, I'm gonna have to give Delilah lots of exercise. Leash train the bunnies and walk them with my cat 😂

The Walrus
Jul 9, 2002




Deadite posted:

I wish I could find a vacuum attachment with a blade in it that would mulch long pieces of hay. The worst part of vacuuming up after my rabbits is stopping to unclog the vacuum hose.

Buy a Bissell Perfect Sweep electric sweeper. In fact, every single person in this thread who has rabbits should own one.

The Walrus
Jul 9, 2002




sleeping rabbits

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




RFC2324 posted:

Huh, they are part of the daily meal at the shelter. Not as bulk or anything, just as a 'every rabbit gets a chunk' so I assumed they were good for teeth to chew on
I have two Holland Lops who, between them, weigh maybe 6 pounds. Together they get 2 tablespoons of carrot or fruit a day (one tablespoon at each meal), per my shelter's recommendation. So there's nothing unusual about a small daily amount.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



Halloween Jack posted:

I have two Holland Lops who, between them, weigh maybe 6 pounds. Together they get 2 tablespoons of carrot or fruit a day (one tablespoon at each meal), per my shelter's recommendation. So there's nothing unusual about a small daily amount.

Yeah, absolutely.

Just wanna clarify my comment from earlier that there’s nothing wrong with daily carrots/fruit/etc, 2 tablespoons is a tiny amount.

It’d be concerning if carrots or fruit were like a significant portion of a rabbit’s daily intake. Like if every night they just got a trough full of carrots and berries and poo poo.

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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Oh no. Like 2 baby carrots worth for a small pair.

And weight control is something I am aware of, and stressed about because I love to give treats

The Walrus
Jul 9, 2002




Imo two baby carrots worth is still too much. Carrots also have a lot of calcium which is bad for their urinary tract. We stick to just really really small pieces of carrot of fruit, like a pinky fingernail sized. They don't need it so no need to give more, just imo.

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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The girl I am getting is a flemish giant, so at least I'll have a little wiggle room. Wonder who she is going to end up paired with

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Ok Comboomer posted:

Just pop an ex pen (with the requisite libations and accessories) down in the sunroom/etc and leave ‘em there for like 6 hours (I put two ex pens together, btw, so there’s lots of space to run around and actually hop/etc). They come around.
I've had Bert & Ernie for just over a year now. During that time I've taken them down to the TV room maybe 3 or 4 times, setting up some barriers to keep them from getting behind the fireplace and wood stove and so on.

They always seemed scared and unhappy, but I really underestimated how much they took to it once they got used to it. I took them down this Wednesday, and this time they were running and jumping all over the place. I'm going to start doing this every week.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007



Halloween Jack posted:

I've had Bert & Ernie for just over a year now. During that time I've taken them down to the TV room maybe 3 or 4 times, setting up some barriers to keep them from getting behind the fireplace and wood stove and so on.

They always seemed scared and unhappy, but I really underestimated how much they took to it once they got used to it. I took them down this Wednesday, and this time they were running and jumping all over the place. I'm going to start doing this every week.

you have to just let rabbits take their time with poo poo and figure it out on their own.

I’ve talked about this ITT before but I had a trio in a three floor Leith cage made specially for rabbits.

They had never been in a vertical enclosure and for the first few hours-to-first night in it they could. not. ramp.

they would make their way up easily enough but then coming down was an ordeal. They’d slide down on their butts, scoot and roll gingerly off the side, inch down bit by bit, start slowly and then lose control of momentum at the end, squat at the top and peer down timidly....you get the idea

It took them a while but within a day they were moving up and down comfortably and by the end of the week they were shooting up and down the ramps and leaping up the sides and so forth like they’d been living there their whole lives

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RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

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Cats and bunnies are both little jerks and its leading to a hilarious showdown over control of a crate

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