Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«58 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines

I was hoping for some advice on classes. I don't plan on being a professional artist (I'm happy as a software eng), so going to a real, physical school is out of the question, but I have been taking it more seriously the last couple of years. I've been going for the cheap (but good) classes I can get online (Proko, New Masters Academy, etc), and I think I've learned quite a bit, but I feel I've been pacing myself too slowly and could be learning more. I've seen some much more expensive online curricula, and I was wondering if those might be worth it. In particular, I've been directed to CGMA, as well as to the Watts Atelier stuff. Anyone know if these are worth the much heftier prices they charge?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Nessa
Dec 15, 2008



Well, I had my second interview. They didn't seem to like the quick concepts I came up with for the very cheesy slogans they gave me, as much as they liked the work that I put 20 or so hours of time into with slogans I came up with myself. They want to do a trial run to make sure we'll work well together.

I signed a contract to take on work on a project by project basis and invoice them at the end of each month. I'll be working for much less than my current freelance rate, but it's still almost double what I'm making working retail right now. It's about what I'd expect to make as a graphic design employee, rather than a freelancer. The contract also clarified that this rate will be revised after 3 months.

I have never done anything like this before, so I don't know if I made a horrible mistake or not. I guess we'll see. It looks like it's going to be cheesy slogans all the way down.

I also have to learn how to use Mail Chimp and other email campaign related stuff. I'm pretty well versed in HTML and CSS, so should I be able to pick it up pretty quickly?

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Also sexism, religious bias, jingoism, and so on. Don't do it, people!

Dogs, don't do it either, even if the police man really tries to train you to do it.


My wife applied for a position doing graphic design / formatting a website. She’s got no college experience but has been doing this stuff as a hobby (including logo design) for a while. I know if she gets a call she’ll get the dreaded “what pay range are you looking for” question. I know from my own experience that you don’t give a range, just a number. And I know where to look for salaries. But what term should I be looking for in this case? They said it would be a good job for a college student, so very junior.

It’s not full web dev, they have a functioning site. She would be editing the layout and adding graphics.

This would be absolutely huge for her, she hasn’t had a job since Jan 2016, and has never done art on anything but a commission or piecework basis.

22 Eargesplitten fucked around with this message at Nov 3, 2017 around 15:33

Ferrule
Feb 23, 2007

Yo!

Check out the site glassdoor.com

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Also sexism, religious bias, jingoism, and so on. Don't do it, people!

Dogs, don't do it either, even if the police man really tries to train you to do it.


Oh yeah, I’ve done tons of research for myself in the past (STEM need ) I’m just not sure what the job title would be and the Craigslist ad doesn’t have a title, just a description.

Ferrule
Feb 23, 2007

Yo!

Well, it sounds like "junior designer" or "junior web specialist". Or just graphic designer/web designer.

But stay away from "Senior" and all the directors (art, creative, etc).

Vilgefartz
Apr 29, 2013



Argue posted:

I was hoping for some advice on classes. I don't plan on being a professional artist (I'm happy as a software eng), so going to a real, physical school is out of the question, but I have been taking it more seriously the last couple of years. I've been going for the cheap (but good) classes I can get online (Proko, New Masters Academy, etc), and I think I've learned quite a bit, but I feel I've been pacing myself too slowly and could be learning more. I've seen some much more expensive online curricula, and I was wondering if those might be worth it. In particular, I've been directed to CGMA, as well as to the Watts Atelier stuff. Anyone know if these are worth the much heftier prices they charge?

Hey man i took Analytical Anatomy at CGMA with Ron Lemen. the course was about 650 bux. It was totally worth it, his video lectures give great direction and an understandable way to learn anatomy for drawing. Mind you the workload can be pretty big, i found myself struggling some weeks to finish if i had to work aswell.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007



Nessa posted:

Well, I had my second interview. They didn't seem to like the quick concepts I came up with for the very cheesy slogans they gave me, as much as they liked the work that I put 20 or so hours of time into with slogans I came up with myself. They want to do a trial run to make sure we'll work well together.

I signed a contract to take on work on a project by project basis and invoice them at the end of each month. I'll be working for much less than my current freelance rate, but it's still almost double what I'm making working retail right now. It's about what I'd expect to make as a graphic design employee, rather than a freelancer. The contract also clarified that this rate will be revised after 3 months.

I have never done anything like this before, so I don't know if I made a horrible mistake or not. I guess we'll see. It looks like it's going to be cheesy slogans all the way down.

I also have to learn how to use Mail Chimp and other email campaign related stuff. I'm pretty well versed in HTML and CSS, so should I be able to pick it up pretty quickly?

That's great, progress, congratulations! I hope it works out for you, reading your posts in this thread I know it's been a long haul in getting steadier work in design. Based on what you mentioned about how they're paying you this will surely not be a forever client (if you start out getting paid way too little it may be impossible to ever raise your prices to your desired rate with them), but it will be a good opportunity to get some real work in your portfolio.

And now less cheery news – HTML emails are the absolute worst because email clients don't render HTML and CSS consistently, even the really basic stuff like background images. You'll be amazed at the number of people still using Outlook 2007. My recommendation is to use MailChimp's pre-made templates as much as possible as they've already done a lot of the testing for you, and only modify them the absolute minimum amount. The actual editing workflow isn't difficult if you already know HTML and CSS, they're just a hassle to test.

Despite that, congratulations, really!

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


So I'm having a pretty big dilemma right now and I'm looking for all sorts of advice. Might as well try here.

Years ago I tried going to college to get a degree in Marine Biology which didn't work out at all. Despite really wanting to work in that field I don't feel I'm cut out for it. With no clear direction, I dropped out of college and decided to instead try building up some work experience just taking any job I could get at home. That's all well and good, but I do want to do something with my life that I actually enjoy. So I'm turning to the one other thing I really have a passion for; art.

I always wanted to be an artist but around High School I dismissed it as an unrealistic fantasy and stopped pursuing it. I thought that even if you put in the time and got a good education in an Art field, it was no guarantee of any sort of job. A risky career field that is unlikely to go well. I have no idea how much truth there really is to that; its based pretty much on second-hand accounts of the starving artist. I definitely feel like I have the motivation to learn and succeed in college art courses, but what's the point in doing them if it won't actually lead to a job?

I guess I'm trying to quantify the value of an art degree in the modern job market. Right now I'm looking at taking community college courses while working part-time. The college I'm planning on attending has a lot of art programs but I need to know if pursuing them would even go anywhere. Obviously I'm gonna try and learn more from the college itself but I figure it couldn't hurt to see if anyone here has relevant input.

Anony Mouse
Jan 30, 2005

A name means nothing on the battlefield. After a week, no one has a name.

Lipstick Apathy

What does "art" mean to you? What would your ideal creative outlet look like if money were no object? Honestly, making a career out of art for art's sake is nigh impossible. The typical answer to your question is probably "go into design" - visual or graphic design if you're 2D oriented, maybe product or industrial or exhibition design if you're more of a "maker". Applying creative skills to solve real world problems can certainly make you a living. But traditional art skills like painting or sculpting are just not widely marketable. Even more "useful" fields like drawing and illustration are brutally competitive.

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

Make way for the Urinal Parade.

UI/UX and motion design is in high demand right now, but who knows what will be in high demand 4+ years from now when you're finished with education and good enough to get paid work. It's all possible, but it takes a lot of time and is a slow burn and you have to either be willing to switch to what is paying or be ok with needing to become one of the best.

gmc9987
Jul 25, 2007


Internet Kraken posted:

So I'm having a pretty big dilemma right now and I'm looking for all sorts of advice. Might as well try here.

Years ago I tried going to college to get a degree in Marine Biology which didn't work out at all. Despite really wanting to work in that field I don't feel I'm cut out for it. With no clear direction, I dropped out of college and decided to instead try building up some work experience just taking any job I could get at home. That's all well and good, but I do want to do something with my life that I actually enjoy. So I'm turning to the one other thing I really have a passion for; art.

I always wanted to be an artist but around High School I dismissed it as an unrealistic fantasy and stopped pursuing it. I thought that even if you put in the time and got a good education in an Art field, it was no guarantee of any sort of job. A risky career field that is unlikely to go well. I have no idea how much truth there really is to that; its based pretty much on second-hand accounts of the starving artist. I definitely feel like I have the motivation to learn and succeed in college art courses, but what's the point in doing them if it won't actually lead to a job?

I guess I'm trying to quantify the value of an art degree in the modern job market. Right now I'm looking at taking community college courses while working part-time. The college I'm planning on attending has a lot of art programs but I need to know if pursuing them would even go anywhere. Obviously I'm gonna try and learn more from the college itself but I figure it couldn't hurt to see if anyone here has relevant input.

Saying, "I want to get a job in art," is too general for any real practical advice. It's like saying you want to get a job driving vehicles - do you want to be a long-haul trucker? A delivery person for UPS or Fedex? A tank navigator in the army? A NASCAR driver? The types of jobs available may all build on the same base skills but they all specialize heavily, requiring you to pick a discipline and stick with it for a while (both in school and after) until you've achieved a skill level high enough to make a living on it.

As such, here is the best advice I can give you based on your general desire to make a living from art:
  • the number of fine artists (painters, sculptors, and other "traditional" mediums) who are able to make a living solely based off making whatever they want and then selling it is super tiny. Like, miniscule. Fractions of a percent. If this is what being an artist means to you, you will most likely be making all your living off of a day job for the rest of your life.
  • If you're looking to go into graphic design or illustration: Unless the company deals primarily in products that require extensive design work, most positions in this field are short-term and contract based. You'll need to be continually looking for more clients and work, and there will be months when you won't get any work at all.
  • Animation and video game art is not quite so short-term, but still not long-term (note: this refers mainly to AAA titles). Most animators and artists I know in this field get hired on for development of a game or season, and once that is completed they have to find more work. Hours are long and grueling as well - think 60+ hour weeks with strict deadlines, working over weekends, etc.
  • Regardless of your chosen field, the projects that will make you the most money and the most reliable living are going to be boring, not-fun-at-all, and frustrating. I've had the opportunity to work on some really amazing, fun projects in my career - games that are proven to increase science literacy in middle school children, available free of charge to teachers; ancient-egypt-themed-card games, and more. About 90% of my money comes from creating Disney Princess-branded sticker sets and coloring books using an abundance of pink and purple and ready-made stock art. It's not fun, but it pays the bills. Don't get any ideas in your head that making a living in art is anything other than work like any other job.

If there's a specific field you want to enter we can give you some better advice but above is what I would tell anyone looking to enter a career in art.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


Well part of this process was going to be figuring out what exactly I wanted to do in art. I have no illusions about ever being able to be one of those people that can draw whatever they want and have people fork over thousands of dollars for it. I also didn't expect any job to be enjoyable most of the time. Its just that getting an art education and relevant experience would also help me improve my art as a hobby. So even if I didn't enjoy the actual work I would at least be building up skills that help me create drawings I do like, so there would be satisfaction.

Your point about most of the work being contract based is really important though. It makes sense and its something I foolishly hadn't considered. I don't think that would fit into the kind of life I have and my current needs. Its probably better to just keep this as a hobby and pursue a more stable career, even if I have no idea what that would be at the moment.

Thanks for the help everyone.

Nessa
Dec 15, 2008



kedo posted:

That's great, progress, congratulations! I hope it works out for you, reading your posts in this thread I know it's been a long haul in getting steadier work in design. Based on what you mentioned about how they're paying you this will surely not be a forever client (if you start out getting paid way too little it may be impossible to ever raise your prices to your desired rate with them), but it will be a good opportunity to get some real work in your portfolio.

And now less cheery news – HTML emails are the absolute worst because email clients don't render HTML and CSS consistently, even the really basic stuff like background images. You'll be amazed at the number of people still using Outlook 2007. My recommendation is to use MailChimp's pre-made templates as much as possible as they've already done a lot of the testing for you, and only modify them the absolute minimum amount. The actual editing workflow isn't difficult if you already know HTML and CSS, they're just a hassle to test.

Despite that, congratulations, really!

Haha, it's been nearly two months and I haven't gotten any work from these people, whatsoever. Early this month, this was a "team meeting" with the other people that were hired, so I got to meet the other graphic designers and writing team. I thought the ball was going to get rolling, but there's still nothing.

Meanwhile, I've been working part time as a "graphic designer" at a small publisher where I've been spending most of my time shrink wrapping calendars, and have barely worked the last week since they didn't have anything for me to do.

yehdawg
Oct 2, 2013

Danger Extraordinaire


Any goons in video production? I'm trying to get into it as a freelance videographer. Any advice that you wish you knew when you first started out about how to charge, how to find gigs, and equipment?

Killer_B
May 22, 2005


What are the better cities/areas in the country for getting creative positions, even production artist-related positions, outside of Chicago/NY/California?

I've handled positions involving page layout, preflighting, retouching, web & graphic design...Though I'd definitely be more towards the "production" side of tasks, than "creative".

Ferrule
Feb 23, 2007

Yo!

Killer_B posted:

What are the better cities/areas in the country for getting creative positions, even production artist-related positions, outside of Chicago/NY/California?

I've handled positions involving page layout, preflighting, retouching, web & graphic design...Though I'd definitely be more towards the "production" side of tasks, than "creative".

Minneapolis, Atlanta, Cincinnati.

There's big CPG places in those cities so there's a bunch of design firms as well. I'm only speaking from a packaging perspective.

Lower cost of living, too.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Narzack
Sep 15, 2008


Sorry for the crosspost from the supid questions thread, I just realized I should have posted this here.

I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but I'm not sure where else to go. I'm currently a television cameraman in Orlando- live sports mostly, and my wife and I are dead sick of this place. We really want to get out of here, but I'm not sure where the good markets are. I did LA for a bit and didn't really care for it. Plus we have a 1 year old and two dogs, so that life isn't for us. I know there's Atlanta, but it's still basically the climate and terrain of Florida. It's still a possibility, though. There's New York, but I don't really know much about the area. I was also thinking about North Carolina, since there is a ton of teams up there, but, again, I don't really know any of the other TV sports markets. 

I mean, my end goal is to get into films, but I still need regular TV work to make ends meet. 

Any thoughts?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«58 »