|
Nigel Tufnel posted:Supremely dumb question. Are chords in a given key, always made up of notes that are in the same scale. yes, this is why most triads can be denoted by numbers like 1-3-5 for a major chord. meaning the notes are the root and then up two and up two again for the second and third notes.
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2020 23:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 04:05 |
|
|
For the triads yes (I think these are called the diatonic chords) but once you get into certain extends chords like the dominant 7 you'll get some notes that are not in the scale. Also while lots of songs stick to diatonic chords you can also break the rules in fun and exciting ways. Learning music theory is so much easier on piano than guitar because every note is just laid out in front of you in order. I started playing piano in January after decades of guitar and I'm not very good at all but it's really illuminating. I'm also a bass player and playing along with sheet music and the metronome has been great for my rhythm too.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2020 04:45
|
|
|
Chords made up of only notes in the key are diatonic chords, even 7th chords or further extensions, although people usually just mean either the triads or 7th chords. It's also basically the fundamental building block of harmony.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2020 22:31
|
|
|
I have some questions about piano fingerings since I don't yet have a teacher to ask. For example I am trying to learn the 2nd movement of Mozart 545, and see a lot of variation in the fingerings when I look at performances on youtube. For example the first note in the Henle text is 2, but most of the performances start with 3 because it keeps the hand in that G arpeggio shape. Is there a general guideline to prefer playing the first note of something with 2 rather than 3 in this case?
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2020 20:24
|
|
|
I assume by first note you're talking about the B the right hand starts with? My inclination would be to start with 2, on the basis that I prefer not to use my pinkie finger when possible. But I also have big hands, so it's not remotely a stretch for me to cover that first sequence without using 5. Honestly a lot of fingering is just comfort. If you're trying a sequence and you find yourself getting tangled up, come up with a different sequence that works for you and pencil it in. Don't be afraid to write on your sheet music.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2020 21:43
|
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:Honestly a lot of fingering is just comfort. If you're trying a sequence and you find yourself getting tangled up, come up with a different sequence that works for you and pencil it in. Don't be afraid to write on your sheet music. Everybody says this, but as a relatively inexperienced player I can't help but wonder if there's some "wisdom" in the notated fingerings that I'm just too inexperienced to understand. I tend to follow notated fingerings because I assume that the person notating probably knows a lot more about piano than I do. For example, in my book of Bach's 2-part inventions, No. 4 has the long right-hand trill notated as "2-3-1-3-2-3-1-3-2-3-1-3....". For me, that's insanely more difficult to play than "2-3-2-3-2-3-2-3...", but I've actually been practicing the notated version because it's harder as an exercise. Doing something as an exercise is one thing: but is there also a musical/practical reason for that trill to be notated like that?
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2020 22:14
|
|
|
There are some extremely bad editors out there. There’s nothing sacrosanct about any editor notes especially not fingering. E: I should also note that sometimes weird fingerings exist to emphasize the articulation leftist heap fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Sep 13, 2020 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2020 01:27
|
|
|
Hell, I've had music where whoever laid out the music clearly copy-pasted a recurring phrase rather than manually transcribe it repeatedly...except the copy they'd grabbed happened to be the one case in the entire piece where a note wasn't accented. All of the phrases after the first one sounded wrong and I had to scribble in a little correction.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2020 01:47
|
|
|
A neat exercise is to have a guitar on your lap while at the piano, play your guitar, then try to mimic your guitar style on the piano. It really forces you outside your playing habits. Vice versa is true as well, writing a piano song and transcribing it to guitar will devise interesting chord progressions.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2020 18:39
|
|
|
One thing that I struggle with is the same thing I struggled with when I was first learning guitar and all the cowboy chords: remembering all the (triad) chords and smoothly transitioning between them. And on piano there's a lot more to learn, 24 triads multiplied by 3 inversions of each.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2020 05:00
|
|
|
prom candy posted:For the triads yes (I think these are called the diatonic chords) but once you get into certain extends chords like the dominant 7 you'll get some notes that are not in the scale. Also while lots of songs stick to diatonic chords you can also break the rules in fun and exciting ways. uh oh, i think someone might get confused reading that! i better clarify: a dominant 7th chord certainly can be diatonic to a major key! the 7th chord built off the 5th scale degree is a dominant 7th chord. in the key of C major, thats G7. there's always exactly one diatonic dominant 7th chord in each key. check it out: Cmaj7: C E G B Dm7: D F A C Em7: E G B D Fmaj7: F A C E G7: G B D F Am7: A C E G B half-diminished 7th: B D F A https://www.musictheory.net/lessons/46
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2020 06:01
|
|
|
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_chord#Secondary_dominant i think op might have been referring to this phenomenon called "secondary dominant chords" ^^ it's one way that a dominant 7th chord from outside the key can be used in a piece of music. (still using the key of C as an example) it's common for the Am7 to be replaced by an A7. to see what the A7 is doing try playing these two progressions: C Am Dm G7 C C A7 Dm G7 C for me, the one with the A7 creates a stronger pull towards the Dm that follows it Am7: A C E G A7: A C# E G that C# definitely isn't in the key, but the chord still "works". thats one way you will see a dominant 7th chord from outside the key get used
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2020 06:09
|
|
|
About to graduate from a 25 key midi controller to a Roland FP10 
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2020 10:13
|
|
|
Helianthus Annuus posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_chord#Secondary_dominant Yeah this is what I was sort of getting at, my music theory knowledge is still pretty poor. One neat thing I learned is your secondary dominant doesn't necessarily have to be a dominant 7 to sound "good" (depending on what style of music you're playing.) If you replace that A7 with just an A you can still get a progression that works and pulls towards the Dm, but it has a bit of a different colour than the A7
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2020 15:08
|
|
|
prom candy posted:Yeah this is what I was sort of getting at, my music theory knowledge is still pretty poor. One neat thing I learned is your secondary dominant doesn't necessarily have to be a dominant 7 to sound "good" (depending on what style of music you're playing.) If you replace that A7 with just an A you can still get a progression that works and pulls towards the Dm, but it has a bit of a different colour than the A7 Because the c# leads to the d, the g in the dominant isn't really doing anything if you resolve to the minor. That's why chaining dominants in bridges is a really common pattern, like the bridge in I Got Rhythm, the verse of which was described before. It creates a lot of momentum, but isn't really sustainable, at least for that song's vibe.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2020 15:14
|
|
|
I've been toying with the idea of buying a keyboard for a while now and wanted to touch base with the thread about it. I aspire to be capable enough to play some of the simpler side of classical music, but the likely end result is "clocks". I am primarily a vocalist, so a lot of the utility of a keyboard would be the ability to play parts that I'm having difficulty sight-reading - but I'd like to pull back out my old piano textbook and maybe actually practice some piano this time around. I'm not likely to ever be gigging or anything like that, but I know I'd prefer to have the full 88 weighted keys if at all possible. Can I spend less than $500 and still have a decent-ish keyboard to start playing on? I'm prepared to move up from there if I find the energy and enthusiasm to play more in earnest, but I don't really want to drop a ton of money on an instrument right off the bat if I can get away with it. Is there a standard recommended starter instrument these days, or is it still more of a "stick with these brands and look for these features" situation?
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2020 22:52
|
|
|
giogadi posted:Everybody says this, but as a relatively inexperienced player I can't help but wonder if there's some "wisdom" in the notated fingerings that I'm just too inexperienced to understand. I tend to follow notated fingerings because I assume that the person notating probably knows a lot more about piano than I do. For example, in my book of Bach's 2-part inventions, No. 4 has the long right-hand trill notated as "2-3-1-3-2-3-1-3-2-3-1-3....". For me, that's insanely more difficult to play than "2-3-2-3-2-3-2-3...", but I've actually been practicing the notated version because it's harder as an exercise. Doing something as an exercise is one thing: but is there also a musical/practical reason for that trill to be notated like that? Yes; there’s a finite limit on how fast your fingers can move even if you spent infinity time practicing. The limit on 2-3-2-3 is slower than 2-3-1-3-2-3-1
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2020 23:04
|
|
|
VelociBacon posted:Anyone ever use a Yamaha P95? Any feelings about it? Coworker has one I might look at picking up on the cheaper side. I am interested in this and other good quality keyboard recs too. I'm thinking of upgrading in 2 months.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2020 23:10
|
|
|
Hawkperson posted:Yes; there’s a finite limit on how fast your fingers can move even if you spent infinity time practicing. The limit on 2-3-2-3 is slower than 2-3-1-3-2-3-1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yfMoIVTilo&t=456s
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2020 01:36
|
|
|
I've been learning for about 7 months now on this Yamaha P-125 and while it's gotten me where I am now, (bad) I don't like it very much. My girlfriend who's been playing piano for almost 20 years won't really touch it because it "just doesn't feel like a piano." Also the keys are pretty stiff and I feel like I have to really slam on these things causing discomfort. This also might just be poor technique. Are there any digital pianos under, or around, $1k USD that have more of a piano feel? I hate to blame the equipment because it does sound nice, but also I'd like for her to start playing again.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 02:30
|
|
|
It depends on your situation, but any chance of a real piano? You can get a decent one for free or a pittance, and if your girlfriend's been playing for 20 years, she can evaluate them. $1k would cover moving and years of tuning.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 02:50
|
|
i like nice words
|
Anne Whateley posted:It depends on your situation, but any chance of a real piano? You can get a decent one for free or a pittance, and if your girlfriend's been playing for 20 years, she can evaluate them. $1k would cover moving and years of tuning. Yeah, this. If a real piano isn't possible then maybe you can take your girlfriend to a music store and check out digitals, but I wouldn't get my hopes up even in the > $1k range. They're just totally different instruments, like comparing a nylon string acoustic guitar to a Stratocaster.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 02:55
|
|
|
Got my Roland FP10 today. Some interesting reflections. 1. Boy are weighted piano keys harder to press down than my MIDI controller 2. Full size keys have different widths so all the chord positions I learned are now wrong. 3. The inbuilt Roland sounds, even tweaking with the app, don’t sound as good as Logic Pro’s Steinway sample which I’m kind of surprised about. Question: I bought the M Audio universal sustain pedal but I realised it doesn’t do half-damping which the FP10 supports. Is it worth it to return it and get the Roland pedal that does 1/2 position. I feel like on or off sounds kind of crappy and there isn’t much time to kick the sustain back on between musical phrases. Or am I just a noob and it would sound crap either way cos my timing is off.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 22:37
|
|
|
Anne Whateley posted:It depends on your situation, but any chance of a real piano? You can get a decent one for free or a pittance, and if your girlfriend's been playing for 20 years, she can evaluate them. $1k would cover moving and years of tuning. Thanks guys. I was hesitant to get an actual piano because we live in an apartment. But after measuring the space (most uprights I've found take up virtually the same space as the current setup) and basically deciding gently caress the neighbors, we're on the hunt for one. Gonna spend some hours the next couple weeks to go to stranger's houses and touch their pianos. Now I just have to get over being bashful when I practice.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 23:08
|
|
|
A lot of uprights will have a center pedal which engages a damper that mutes the strings, so you'll be able to practice extremely quietly if you want to (you don't want to, gently caress the neighbors).
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2020 23:42
|
|
|
Professor Latency posted:Thanks guys. I was hesitant to get an actual piano because we live in an apartment. But after measuring the space (most uprights I've found take up virtually the same space as the current setup) and basically deciding gently caress the neighbors, we're on the hunt for one. Gonna spend some hours the next couple weeks to go to stranger's houses and touch their pianos. Good for you. Congrats on making a big decision! Have fun! Punk rock ethos means playing your music and neighbors be damned, and I support that :100: Hint, make very liberal use of the leftmost (damper) pedal. And fwiw I hold sustain down more often than not, just letting up off of it when the sound gets muddy. e: Just feel like ranting for a minute. I wish I had a real piano! So bad, it is like an old old friend. I prefer acoustic instruments to electric just because they're so much more convenient to pick ip and play casually, compared to plugging in a lot of wires and stuff. I am an impulse player, randomly plopping down on the instrument, maybe 10 times a day just randomly and might play for 5 minutes. I am using a good Yamaha DX7 but going through all the technology, it sounds good, but I play it much much less due to the time it takes to actually turn it on I'd rather not bother. excellent bird guy fucked around with this message at 11:26 on Sep 19, 2020 |
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2020 11:17
|
|
|
I just leave my digital piano on all the time
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2020 20:34
|
|
|
I got tired of putting it off to "next year maybe" for another year and just picked up a weighted keyboard, but I haven't figured out what kind of teacher I want/need yet (finances, covid safety, scheduling, etc). Are there any books/youtube things for beginners I can/should use to get going until I figure this out? I'd just like to get into some kind of constructive routine ASAP. I'm not going for classical concert stuff. Right now I kind of just want to build a musical toolkit that'll let me explore what catches my interest. I played in an orchestra growing up and took piano lessons as a kid so I can like, read music and stuff but it's been a while since I did anything involving music theory. I might be overthinking it but I dont want to build any bad habits by mistake 
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2020 21:02
|
|
|
Marx Headroom posted:I got tired of putting it off to "next year maybe" for another year and just picked up a weighted keyboard, but I haven't figured out what kind of teacher I want/need yet (finances, covid safety, scheduling, etc). Are there any books/youtube things for beginners I can/should use to get going until I figure this out? I'd just like to get into some kind of constructive routine ASAP. I really like the Faber Adult Piano Adventures books, I was in the same place as you about 6 months ago and started with book 1. It's a great start and now I'm on book 2. The online resources are good and you can find people on youtube giving demonstrations. The Alfred book is also supposed to be good and a little more pop focused. If you can already read music, you'll progress quickly because a lot of the book is about introducing notes on the staff gradually. For technique I don't have a teacher yet either, but I try to watch videos about good technique and regularly check myself.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2020 17:14
|
|
|
I've been taking virtual lessons for a while and I'm thinking about quitting, I feel like I get more out of youtube videos than I do out of the lessons. The main thing I get from the lessons is having a "deadline" for whatever I'm working on but I dunno if that's worth $25/half hour
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2020 19:00
|
|
|
I had to switch to online lessons with my teacher for six weeks or so. I've been with this teacher for several years now and regard her not only as an excellent teacher but a friend. That said, those online lessons were a waste of both of our time, and I would have taken a hiatus if they'd gone on much longer.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2020 20:57
|
|
|
Anyone want to give me piano lessons for money? I've played piano my whole life, but I need someone to hold me accountable. PM me if you are interested or know someone. Online of course. I have a synth that is midi connectable so the sound can be transmitted.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2020 10:35
|
|
|
Booyah- posted:I really like the Faber Adult Piano Adventures books, I was in the same place as you about 6 months ago and started with book 1. Thanks, I went over this thread again and this approach seems worthwhile. Picked these up and a songbook of pop music to keep me entertained in the doldrums. Good to know I'm not totally screwing myself over here.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2020 16:46
|
|
|
Western music theory question. I’ve been enjoying a radio series where they talk about each musical key as if it were a person and how different keys have very different feels and emotions. While I don’t disagree, I do wonder how that is happening. If I understand correctly, the notes in the key of D major, for example, are the same as the notes in the key of C major, just one whole step up. So how is it that keys have different feels if it’s the same notes just transposed up. I have a feeling that it has something to do with the number and placement of sharps and flats but that’s a guess. Help blow my mind again piano thread!
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2020 21:19
|
|
|
Well your namesake views D minor as the saddest of all keys. Maybe it's something to do with having a higher or lower set of relative pitches and the difference each range has being up or down the scale of ranges (not individual notes), and the groups of harmonic overtones have different effects on our emotions at different pitches/in different keys. That might not make sense as it's 2am but it's my best stab at a response to an interesting question. Separately, some keys are subjectively more fun to play in than others, though this is obviously dependent on instrument and obviously individual.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 02:03
|
|
|
Nigel Tufnel posted:Western music theory question. I’ve been enjoying a radio series where they talk about each musical key as if it were a person and how different keys have very different feels and emotions. i have real trouble with anyone trying to draw objective definitions of the emotional content of a key. they definitely feel different, but I imagine that's entirely subjective.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 03:24
|
|
|
I was under the impression that it was a holdover from before the modern temperment system where each key would have a distinctive set of dissonances? That might be completely wrong, iunno.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 03:29
|
|
|
Marx Headroom posted:Thanks, I went over this thread again and this approach seems worthwhile. Picked these up and a songbook of pop music to keep me entertained in the doldrums. Good to know I'm not totally screwing myself over here. Awesome, definitely post about how it's going. I need to post my progress more. I'm starting to work on connected pedaling and am trying to understand the timing better. It seems like the key is to release the pedal just before the next chord/section, like as you are starting to press on the keys. Then reengage after those keys are down. All the pieces that use it sound beautiful so far.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 05:15
|
|
|
I think that’s the right idea but it also depends on the piece. There are some slow legato pieces where it only sounds right (to me) to release the pedal after I’ve fully pressed down the keys for the next chord - you’d expect this to sound really muddy but it actually doesn’t.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 06:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 04:05 |
|
|
Re: do certain keys have emotional attachments. Great video here from Adam Neely. https://youtu.be/6c_LeIXrzAk tldr: not in modern tuning but also yes but it’s more instrument specific and to do with what timbres and techniques are available on that instrument given a certain key.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2020 08:50
|
|