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silencekit
May 1, 2014


MrSargent posted:

I have been researching some of my favorite producers' influences to branch out my knowledge a bit. After watching The Defiant Ones, I looked at Dr. Dre's influences and wanted some recommendations on places to start with the following people/groups.

Kraftwerk

Kraftwerk is easy, as long as you know what you're getting into. For my money, The Man Machine is the best place to start. It's groovy, timeless, poppy, and vaguely threatening.

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Toe Rag
Aug 29, 2005



I assume Dr Dre would be influenced by stuff like Computerwelt or Autobahn, but their first album is also really good. The second album is also good, but not as strong. Haven't listened to the third. Apparently Kraftwerk themselves consider Autobahn to be their first "real" album. The early stuff is definitely more archetypical krautrock rather than the electronic music they are known for. I really haven't heard anything by Kraftwerk that isn't good.

DasNeonLicht
Dec 25, 2005

"...and the light is on and burning brightly for the masses."

MrSargent posted:

Kraftwerk
Isaac Hayes

Kraftwerk: You can't go wrong with any one of their albums from 1974–1980. They're all masterpieces, so start with what you think you'd like more.
  • Autobahn has the classic 24-minute track everyone talks about, but its second half is sort of ambient experimental in trying to create moods and atmospheres rather than beats and tunes.
  • Radio-activity is about nuclear energy, radio, and electronics. No influential bangers per se, but the most tracks and widest range of track tempos and types of any of their records.
  • Trans-Europe Express is about travel, trains, and Europe. "Trans-Europe Express" and "Metal on Metal" are pretty mind-blowing and might be my favorite Kraftwerk tracks. Huge impact on hip-hop. Afrika Bambaataa lifted large portions of it to make "Planet Rock," and Grandmaster Flash said the track pretty much DJed itself.
  • The Man Machine I always think of this one as being about cities and urban life? I think it's my favorite. Every track is good. The beat to "Man Machine" seems pretty cutting-edge for 1978.
  • Computer World is about computers and technology. For hip-hop, I think "Numbers" was pretty influential, with "Home Computer" and "It's More Fun to Compute" having a big impact on techno.
Also rans: Kraftwerk and Kraftwerk 2 are weird, experimental, and forgettable, although "Ruckzuck" is kind of cool, I guess. Mostly for Krautrock completists. Techno Pop a.k.a. Electric Café is slightly underrated, which is to say that it's not as completely awful as most people say it is. The Mix is like a greatest hits compilation but all the tracks are slicker, digitally produced, dancefloor-ready (ca. 1990) overhauls of the originals. Tour de France Soundtracks the album is pretty good but it's not a starting point.

tl;dr: Just get Computer World.

I don't know as much about Isaac Hayes, but Hot Buttered Soul is supposed to be a really important record, and the 10-minute version of "Walk On By" is one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard. The second time that string section kicks in is just

DasNeonLicht fucked around with this message at Aug 18, 2017 around 23:06

hexwren
Feb 27, 2008



MrSargent posted:

I have been researching some of my favorite producers' influences to branch out my knowledge a bit. After watching The Defiant Ones, I looked at Dr. Dre's influences and wanted some recommendations on places to start with the following people/groups.

Kraftwerk
George Clinton
Isaac Hayes
Curtis Mayfield

Kraftwerk started out as an experimental group, playing proto-ambient electronics on records that are, while good, mostly out of print. Their first hit was with the title track to their fourth record, Autobahn, but the majority of that record (and the follow-up, Radio-Activity) still involve quite a lot of odd moments and space sounds. Utterly fantastic space sounds, but if you want to get the idea of where Kraftwerk and hip-hop begin intersecting, you start with the sixth record, Trans-Europe Express. Apart from the pastoral coda Franz Schubert/Endless Endless and the spaced-out Hall of Mirrors, this is a record where Ralf, Florian, Karl and Wolfgang figured out beats. And they're great. The title track (along with Numbers from 1981's Computer World) became some of the core samples in Afrika Bambaataa's Planet Rock. From there, basically the band's entire catalog has since been sampled in one place or another. Start with TEE, but proceed from there to The Man-Machine and Computer World (and back again to Autobahn and Ralf & Florian for some great, great space synth.)

Zesty Mordant
Jun 7, 2007

hella greenbacks

Live Kraftwerk is extremely good, even if they didn't release a live album until 2005. But that's where I'd start, Minimum Maximum

Rageaholic Monkey
May 31, 2005

"What do you fear
most in the world?"

"The possibility that
love is not enough."


If you've heard this song, you've already heard Kraftwerk (kinda).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH9meoWmAOM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtWTUt2RZh0

Also listen to The Robots and Music Non Stop because they're all-time classics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXa9tXcMhXQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj1qLbJfmE8

Most electronic music as we know it today wouldn't exist without Kraftwerk.

And yeah, they loving rule live too. I saw their 3D tour last year and it was mindblowing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTBxnOUM-Oc

Rageaholic Monkey fucked around with this message at Aug 18, 2017 around 21:59

Sir Nose
Mar 28, 2009


Lots of good Kraftwerk talk.

Henchman of Santa posted:

Funkadelic - Maggot Brain
Parliament - Mothership Connection
Funkadelic - If you're coming at this knowing George Clinton only from Flashlight/Atomic Dog slick funk, Maggot Brain may be a bit of a shock. For some, it might be better to start with One Nation Under A Groove (which contains a live version of Maggot Brain's title track) and work back. Follow with Standing On The Verge Of Getting It On, and then Maggot Brain.

Parliament - Mothership Connection is crucial; Funkentelechy Vs. The Placebo Syndrome is also an excellent place to start. I find Clones of Dr. Funkenstein rather disappointing.

Radio Spiricom
Aug 17, 2009



no ones said chocolate city yet but you should listen to that and also the 12" singles compilation

MrSargent
Dec 23, 2003

Sometimes, there's a man, well, he's the man for his time and place. He fits right in there. And that's Jimmy T.

Thank you all for the excellent suggestions, especially DasNeonLicht and Allen Wren for the history lesson on where a lot of hip-hop influence came from.

MrSargent
Dec 23, 2003

Sometimes, there's a man, well, he's the man for his time and place. He fits right in there. And that's Jimmy T.

Just wanted to say I started with Trans Europe Express and when Showroom Dummies came on, I was NOT expecting that Kick Drum to slam me in the chest as hard as it did. That is some incredible sound for that time. I realize it has been remastered but still.

MrSargent
Dec 23, 2003

Sometimes, there's a man, well, he's the man for his time and place. He fits right in there. And that's Jimmy T.

Posting for the third time in a row, but whatever. I have to be doing something wrong, but I looked up One Nation Under a Groove on iTunes and the album doesn't appear to be available? They seem to have every other Funkadelic album but not that one, which doesn't seem right.

Henchman of Santa
Aug 21, 2010


MrSargent posted:

Posting for the third time in a row, but whatever. I have to be doing something wrong, but I looked up One Nation Under a Groove on iTunes and the album doesn't appear to be available? They seem to have every other Funkadelic album but not that one, which doesn't seem right.

It's not on Spotify either IIRC. Not sure what the deal is.

screaden
Apr 8, 2009


MrSargent posted:

Posting for the third time in a row, but whatever. I have to be doing something wrong, but I looked up One Nation Under a Groove on iTunes and the album doesn't appear to be available? They seem to have every other Funkadelic album but not that one, which doesn't seem right.

The rights to older PFunk albums are all hosed up because George Clinton spent most of that time completely loving high at every turn and one of the managers was doing a bunch of dodgy stuff on the sly and then just hosed off to never be heard from again. Like I still don't think he has control over all his material so it probably has something to do with that

MrSargent
Dec 23, 2003

Sometimes, there's a man, well, he's the man for his time and place. He fits right in there. And that's Jimmy T.

screaden posted:

The rights to older PFunk albums are all hosed up because George Clinton spent most of that time completely loving high at every turn and one of the managers was doing a bunch of dodgy stuff on the sly and then just hosed off to never be heard from again. Like I still don't think he has control over all his material so it probably has something to do with that

I was just reading about that and figured it had something to do with this. Real drat shame as that album is one of their best so I hear. I am going to stop by a record store on my way home to see if I can find a copy.

Sir Nose
Mar 28, 2009


Looks like all the older Funkadelic albums on the Westbound label are readily available, but the four later albums released on Warner Bros (Hardcore Jollies, One Nation Under A Groove, Uncle Jam Wants You, and Electric Spanking of War Babies) are MIA on Itunes/Spotify. I thought George had finally secured the rights to those four, so maybe he himself is withholding them, but there's other stuff he owns outright (like First Ya Gotta Shake The Gate) that is available, so I dunno what's going on...

EDIT: I found all the Parliament albums except for Osmium on Spotify. Osmium (the very first Parliament album) is on a different label from all the others. It's loving strange and awesome, very very weird and totally unlike any other Parliament album.

EDIT #2: News flash: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-s...SKCN1B42P4?il=0

If the Warner Funkadelic albums are still controlled by Warner, looks like they'll show up on Spotify. No idea what this means, if anything, for iTunes

Sir Nose fucked around with this message at Aug 25, 2017 around 02:46

Henchman of Santa
Aug 21, 2010


Is Go-Go actually worth listening to? I had never even heard of it until the Foo Fighters Sonic Highways show (lol) and it seemed interesting, but I read recently that you really had to be there and see it live, which is why nobody outside of D.C. seems to listen to it. The most popular Go-Go albums on RateYourMusic have about 80 ratings.

Does anyone know where to start with this subgenre or should I not even bother?

Sir Nose
Mar 28, 2009


Henchman of Santa posted:

Is Go-Go actually worth listening to? I had never even heard of it until the Foo Fighters Sonic Highways show (lol) and it seemed interesting, but I read recently that you really had to be there and see it live, which is why nobody outside of D.C. seems to listen to it. The most popular Go-Go albums on RateYourMusic have about 80 ratings.

Does anyone know where to start with this subgenre or should I not even bother?

Depends on how you feel about extended grooves and vamping; actual song structure is pretty minimal. It is best live; check out one of Trouble Funk's live albums-- Live or Saturday Night Live; you'll figure out pretty quickly if Go-Go is for you. If you like it, move on to Chuck Brown.

Llyr
Mar 24, 2010

Music is the best


Thank you people for the previous help!
Where do I start with John Prine & Mastodon?

Henchman of Santa
Aug 21, 2010


Llyr posted:

Thank you people for the previous help!
Where do I start with John Prine & Mastodon?

Heavy Mastodon: Leviathan, then Remission and Blood Mountain, then Call of the Mastodon
Less heavy Mastodon: Crack the Skye, then whatever after that. Their last three albums all have similar vibes too each other.

Alternate option: start with Blood Mountain, go backward if you prefer the aggressive tracks and forward if you prefer the proggier ones

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment,
I wouldn't have any appointment.


Llyr posted:

Thank you people for the previous help!
Where do I start with John Prine

Prime Prine is a good compilation of the high points of his career. For albums, the first two are essential and you can just continue chronologically.

Ikari Worrier
Jul 23, 2004



Soiled Meat

Franchescanado posted:

Prime Prine is a good compilation of the high points of his career. For albums, the first two are essential and you can just continue chronologically.

Yeah at bare minimum the debut album is essential listening since a pretty good number of songs from it basically immediately entered the country music canon (especially "Paradise," "Sam Stone," and "Angel from Montgomery").

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It is time for your viscera to see the light of day!

Henchman of Santa posted:

Alternate option: start with Blood Mountain, go backward if you prefer the aggressive tracks and forward if you prefer the proggier ones

I like this.

LargeHadron
May 19, 2009

They say, "you mean it's just sounds?" thinking that for something to just be a sound is to be useless, whereas I love sounds just as they are, and I have no need for them to be anything more than what they are.


Any recommendations for Daniel Johnston besides Hi How Are You and 1990? I like those albums a lot. Where should I go next?

Ikari Worrier
Jul 23, 2004



Soiled Meat

LargeHadron posted:

Any recommendations for Daniel Johnston besides Hi How Are You and 1990? I like those albums a lot. Where should I go next?

Yip/Jump Music is essential early Johnston (probably his strongest early period album overall) as is Songs of Pain. Since it looks like you have a liking for more depressive Johnston I'd also say The What of Whom.

If interested in Johnston's post 1990 work (where he started working more with outside musicians), Is and Always Was is easily the best starting point imo.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment,
I wouldn't have any appointment.


LargeHadron posted:

Any recommendations for Daniel Johnston besides Hi How Are You and 1990? I like those albums a lot. Where should I go next?

FUN. It's the best Daniel Johnston album.

You should probably just watch The Devil and Daniel Johnston.

Kvlt!
May 19, 2012

2 U's 2 k's Tuukka!


Where do I start with Rush?

Henchman of Santa
Aug 21, 2010


Kvlt! posted:

Where do I start with Rush?

Moving Pictures and 2112. Permanent Waves and Hemispheres are good starting points as well.

hatelull
Oct 29, 2004



If you're ok with not being a purist, the double disc compilation Chronicles gives a pretty decent walk through of their early stuff up through 1989's Presto. Don't expect any deep cuts or their crazy long instrumental work (although "La Villa Strangiato" makes an appearance I believe) but it's a safe introduction all the same.

LargeHadron
May 19, 2009

They say, "you mean it's just sounds?" thinking that for something to just be a sound is to be useless, whereas I love sounds just as they are, and I have no need for them to be anything more than what they are.


Franchescanado posted:

FUN. It's the best Daniel Johnston album.

You should probably just watch The Devil and Daniel Johnston.

FUN is certainly different from the other two I know. I like "Life in Vain". It sounds like the kind of song that could live on forever.

I added The Devil and Daniel Johnston to my Amazon Video queue. Thanks!

hexwren
Feb 27, 2008



Kvlt! posted:

Where do I start with Rush?

This effortpost is incredibly unnecessary.

Both of the suggestions thus far will provide you with good music.

I sorta split the difference as a teenager---I did first get Moving Pictures, but then next moved to the then-brand-new live record Different Stages. The production is pretty heavily 90s (read: loud), but with two discs of material from several concerts in the 90s and a third disc recorded at a single mid-seventies show, it gives a pretty wide taste of what they got up to during their first three decades, song-wise.

I could definitely do a paragraph or more, easy, on all their records because I'm a dumb nerd, but I'll try not to do that. Here's some notes:

Rush albums tend to come in threes, in my opinion. For the most part. For the band, they come in fours, with a live album after every four (except in the 00s where there's a live disc for every tour).

The First Three Albums: Rush, Fly By Night and Caress of Steel are...well, they have their moments. Not all of those moments are good ones. They didn't even settle into their permanent lineup until the second of those (which is why there's no science fiction on the first record.) However, there's some gems in the rough, especially Beneath, Between & Behind, which is lyrically a little goofy (which...let's face it, can preface a description of literally every Rush song apart from the instrumentals) but rocks like nobody's business. I also once called in to a classic rock radio station as a teenager to request the title track from Fly By Night and, for reasons completely unclear to me, they played the call on the air...and then played Limelight. Radio's a hosed-up business. Where was I?

The Prog Era: 2112, A Farewell to Kings, Hemispheres. The song about elves is actually back on Fly By Night, but these are the three records people will point at when they're talking about Rush music being all "elves 'n poo poo." The side-long 2112 isn't so much a song as it is a mini rock opera, which means you have songs that only exist to drive the plot. People may think it heretical, but I think side B of the record (songs about weed and being sad and a little bit of objectivism) is better than side A (OBJECTIVISM: THE ALBUM). Has way better riffs, if anything. A Farewell to Kings is probably the most consistent of these three records. Xanadu is slightly overlong, but cooks. Cygnus X-1 is ridiculous and gave Dream Theater the idea that they too could split songs across albums, so I'm biased against it. Hemispheres is basically in the same boat as 2112 for me---weaker side A, better side B.

The They Like The Police? Era: Permanent Waves, Moving Pictures, Signals. Don't get me wrong, they're still nerdy as hell, both lyrically and musically, they just spend this period getting away from unreasonably-long songs (averaging 4-7 minutes per song instead of having 10-20 minute songs and then three normal songs to balance it out) and getting into trickier rhythms and synthesizers. These three are up-and-down good.

The Holy poo poo, Synthesizers Era: Grace Under Pressure, Power Windows, Hold Your Fire. I really like the last of these three, but it comes across as Rush from some weird alternate dimension where they're a synthpop band. Elsewise, kinda skippable apart from a few really solid tunes here and there unless you're really into proggy pop with lots of synths. Afterimage, Mystic Rhythms, Force Ten...your tolerance for these tunes and the albums they're from are probably mostly down to how much you like the 80s.

The Outlier: Presto. At this point, Alex, the guitarist, basically goes "if we don't get some goddamn guitars back into this, I'm walking." So they do. Ssssssssorta. There's still a little bit of keyboard on this record, often more piano-like sounds, which you don't get anywhere else in their catalogue. But the guitar is still totally stuck in the 80s---there's solos, but a lot of it stuff outside of that is the sort of thin acoustic guitar overdub on electric guitar that inevitably sounds like they're playing electric guitar but also playing an unplugged electric guitar at the same time. They also change record labels around this time.

The Nineties: Roll the Bones, Counterparts, Test For Echo. They get back to writing songs with riffs and generally settle into a mature radio-rock sound. Oddly, these three records are also concept albums---though on far more broad terms than most bands might use the term---covering fate, relationships and communication respectively. Dreamline, Bravado, Animate, Stick It Out, Driven and Half the World are the key songs here, most of the rest is okay. The title track to the first of these three records is the most possibly nineties thing, containing a rap breakdown. Yes. You heard me. It's clearly someone in the band with a voice modulator, but man, bad idea.

The 00s: Vapor Trails, Snakes & Arrows, Clockwork Angels. And the Feedback EP, which is all 60s covers. Vapor Trails is uneven, but that's almost certainly partly because of how tiring it is to listen to---it's almost certainly the straw that broke the camel's back in the loudness wars. You cannot really get any more brickwalled than this record. There is a remixed (not in the dance music sense, in the music production sense) edition of the record out there which I should track down at some point. There's good songs there, it's just hard to get at them. Snakes & Arrows is far and away my favorite record from their post-80s output and definitely worth checking out, though it's somewhat informed by the George W. Bush-era political landscape, which doesn't entirely age well. Far Cry, the first single from it, is definitely their best song since, like, 1991. I never really got into Clockwork Angels. I can't really say much about it. It's just kind of too much. In that way, it's almost peak Rush---too many riffs, too many tempo changes, too many lyrics, etc.

Henchman of Santa
Aug 21, 2010


I love Clockwork Angels musically but Nick Raskulinecz has gotta be one of the worst producers around. Who else can say they've made both Rush and The Hold Steady sound awful?

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fartknocker
Oct 28, 2012

Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.

Fun Shoe

hexwren posted:

There is a remixed (not in the dance music sense, in the music production sense) edition of the record out there which I should track down at some point.

For someone who is first going through Rush, I would absolutely recommend they go with Vapor Trails Remixed over the original album. It's much more in line with their other records (Before and after) and isn't absolutely deafening. There are one or two songs I think are better with the original mix (Freeze comes to mind, IMO), but otherwise it's a major improvement.

Otherwise, great write up.

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