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Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

Here's my '99 TJ (same pic I always pimp out):


Somewhere in the hills near Cle Elum, WA. That was a fun trail.

Anyway, still working toward my new Ruby. Every time I get close to taking the plunge, something comes up and sets it back a few months.

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Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

The Midniter posted:

Once I do find a new soft top, what (if anything) can I do to repair/replace the openings for the front clips?

Duct tape. Seriously. My ex's TJ had issues with her top not sealing completely in the front so I put duct tape on the hooks. It basically put more distance between the hooks and the top of the openings and created a nice tight seal on the top. Not the prettiest, but if you use black duct tape and do it nicely, you can hardly tell.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

Aran posted:

My 00's only problem is, as my OBDII scanner tells me "MISFIRE CYLINDER 01/06" with 18xk miles on it

Sounds like a bad plug wire. My 99 did the same thing after I replaced the wires. Turns out, one of the new ones was bad. Replaced it and the code went away.

On another note, my financial situation is nearly to the point of getting me my brand new Ruby. Has anyone had any experience with custom ordering a vehicle from the dealer? I've been looking and no one around me has a 2 door Ruby with the options I want. I'd rather not settle for something that's less than perfect for me since I plan on keeping the Jeep for a long time.

Anyway, do dealers still make deals if you're ordering from the factory? How long does it take?

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

Original.Evil posted:

I'm thinking about buying a 1990 Wrangler, 4.2 manual with 171k miles on it and needs a clutch replaced. Would 1k be a fair price for it? Should I even buy this car? I don't mind replacing the clutch and since the engine is an inline 6 I think it will run for a long time.

Thank you, hope this was the right place to post this.

I'd pay $1000 for an older Wrangler. I would have no qualms about beating the hell out of it on the trails. Replacing a clutch isn't that big a deal, especially if you've done it before.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

Valgarv posted:

... is the change to a 6 cylinder really a huge upgrade?

Yes!

I've driven a 4 banger wrangler and it was the most anemic thing. I suppose if you roll around on the stock pizza cutters it'd be somewhat okay, but with any decent sized tire it's a piece of crap.

For a quick comparison, the 4cyl puts out about 100hp while the I6 puts out about anywhere from ~177hp to about ~200hp depending on the year. Also, the I6 has it's bulletproof reputation too.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

Hughmoris posted:

I have a 2004 Jeep Wrangler with the soft top. There is a small tear at on the top side of the top. What would be my best option for fixing it, ideally inexpensive but not overly cheap?

*Also, could someone tell me what size fuse needs to go into the interior fuse box for slot #4? Pulling this fuse disables the interior lights when you have your doors open/off. I removed it several years ago and want to replace it, but I can't remember the size (I think 10A) and I can't find a schematic for that panel.

Thanks!

It's a 10 amp.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

While visiting my friend in Bend this last weekend, it seems her parents acquired a new Jeep.



This thing is burly, is chipped, geared, has Poison Spider axles, sits atop fully beadlocked 37s and *sniffle* will never see a day off road. Of course, if it goes over more than a speed bump, those 37s will stuff themselves through the fenders.

Next to it is their boat hauler/work truck (also on 37s).

Behind that is my friend's yellow TJ (on 33s) that I got to flog in the woods. There are some great trails 10 minutes outside of Bend!

If you look hard enough in the background, you can see the top of their purple NOS injected 76 Bronco (on 35" BFG A/Ts).

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

Atticus_1354 posted:

And they had the audacity to slap a Moab sticker on it. What is wrong with people?

Actually, those were on it when they bought it.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

sinon posted:

They actually purchased this one as is, if I remember correctly. Saw it at a dealership a while ago (I live in Bend)
This is the one with the warn wench on the front, correct? (hard to tell, although I doubt there's many beadlocked JK's on 37's with MOAB painted across it in Bend)

It's actually a Ramsey in a Warn bumper on the front (Warn on the back too). It came on 35s and chrome wheels which they got rid of and then put the 37s on. And yes, those are real beadlocks on them. I really, really wanted to take it in the woods out on China Hat but there's not a chance in hell that would happen.

But if you happen to see them in Bend, give them a wave. They're the nicest, greatest people in the world and a whole lot of fun to party with. They just really like to have completely excessive vehicles.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

Dingis Khan posted:



Oh god is that a 4Runner?! Mmmmmmmmmmm, I do miss my Yoter.

Also, where was this? Naches?

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

Godholio posted:

Nobody buys a Wrangler for winter driving (if they do, they're not very bright).

Wait...what? That's a load of crap. My TJ handles like a champ in the snow. And with a hardtop, it's still warm.

I could see people offloading their soft tops in the fall (wusses), but any Jeep owner who knows anything and lives in a place where there is inclement winter weather would keep it.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

Well, I finally did it.

I traded in my '99 TJ Sport for a brand new '08 Rubi 2-door. I am in love.


(Apologies for the lovely phone pic).

First thing to come off was the top. The 3-piece Freedom Top is great. The rear part of the hard-top is much lighter than the TJ (although it is still a 2 person job to take it off). Even with the top off, I could still hear the radio! This was a shock to me since I was used to the lovely speakers in the front of my TJ that would be drowned out at about 55MPH.

Right off the bat I had to get used to the 6-speed. The first few times I went to put it in reverse, I'd end up throwing it into 6th and wonder why I was lugging forward. Whoops!

After driving around a while, I've noticed a few things. The JK is about 1000 times quieter than my TJ. They've buttoned up the shakes and rattles. Anyone with a TJ know how your full doors rattle unmercilessly over uneven terrain when the hard-top is off? No more!!

Secondly, this thing rides as if it were on a fluffy cloud. I took it out on some dirt roads yesterday and even over washboard it barely registered. Being used to the box-car ride of my TJ, this was quite a nice surprise. The Rubi comes with ESP (traction control) and i did get it to kick in a couple times flying around the gravel corners but it was only noticeable as a sudden drop in engine power (that along with applying the brake is how it reglates wheel spin). Fortunately, with a simple push of a button, the ESP can be turned off. It also turns off when in 4-Lo.

So, driving around town wasn't cutting it for me. Luckily, we're going camping next weekend and I wanted to go up and scout our camp site to see if it survived the winter.

We drove over the mountains and hit the dirt roads. I knew my Rubi wouldn't be so shiny and clean for long. Anyway, we checked out the campsite (which was still there):


and then drove up the road a bit further to check out the swimming hole:

My topless Rubi and my madre's topless TJ

I really wanted to check the trail-ratedness of my new Yeep so we went and found the trail that I found a few years ago that led to this picture of my TJ:


The odometer had about 200 miles on it when we hit the trail. It was a rocky, boulder strewn creekbed for the most part and the Rubi crawled over it like a champ. Once we got higher, we began hitting snow patches. I actually had to turn the lockers on and break trail through some deep wet snow resulting in half of it being thrown up and into the jeep. Great fun! We eventually got to a point where I'm sure I could have kept going but my Mom's TJ would have had issues due to the snow (she's got a 2" lift and open diffs). Hopefully when I go camping next weekend, more of the snow will have melted so we can get up to the picture spot.

So now, she's got about 320 miles on her, is covered in dirt and mud, and still has the dealer plate on. I couldn't be happier in any other Jeep. The JK Rubi is more than trail capable out of the box and she's comfy to boot!

I'll actually bring a camera next weekend and get more pics.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

The King of Swag posted:

I've driven around one or two of the new JKs and there is no way I could possibly own one without selling the engine at mile one and replacing it with a 4.0L or a built stroker. The V6 feels exactly like your driving a Grand Caravan and in my experience, I had to rev the piss out of it to get the same performance I get in the 4.0L with just a quarter throttle.

Interesting. I feel like my Rubi has more power than my TJ had (and it had the 4.0L) A lot of people bitch about the new 3.8 being anemic but they don't realize the ECU isn't running everything at 100% for about the first 1000 miles during break in. I don't find it to be lacking in power at all and I bet I'll be even happier once I get to 1000 miles. But whatever, to each their own.

As for the creature comforts - I love them too. Does this make me a non-hardcore true Jeep owner? Maybe to some snobs. But those are also the people I hated wheelin' with back when I had my Toyota. I'd laugh every time I had to pull them over an obstacle.


CommieGIR posted:

new jeeps are just too...well...NEW! They have all the added luxuries that we average Jeep drivers do not want. Why do I want to drag my brand new Jeep Commander through the mud? Its too clean and the interior too luxurious, it makes me sick. I miss the old simple designs of the Cherokees, Wranglers, CJs, etc.

Uh, yeah, since when is a Commander aimed at the off-road enthusiast? A vast majority of those will never see a dirt road, let alone a trail.

As an average Jeep driver, and as I stated above, I love my amenities. Power windows? Hell yeah, now I don't have to reach all the loving way over to the passenger side to lower the glass. Power door locks? Nice! A great stock stereo I can hear on the freeway and not have to worry about getting stolen since it's keyed to my VIN? Awesome!! Just because it's not a stripped down CJ doesn't mean it's not a Jeep.

And I did drag my brand new JK through the mud, and rocks, and trees, and snow, and creekbeds just to get rid of the "cleanliness." gently caress, I hated the armoralled tires.

Anyway, I get tired of people bagging on the new JKs because they have too many features. They seem to be the same people who bagged on the TJs when they first came out. Fine, you sit on your canvas-seated, box-car riding, noisy rear end CJ/YJ and feel smug because you're so hardcore. I prefer to ride in comfort while sipping my americano. Maybe I'm just getting old.

See you on the trails.

Braincloud fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jun 25, 2008

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

CommieGIR posted:

I hate the whole futuristic re-design they gave it, trying to add curves to everything.

I thought the TJs were curvier than the JKs. The tops of the doors are rounded and the hardtop is also rounded in the back. The JK's have squared doors and the hard-top is definitely boxier.

TJ:


JK:


But your opinion is your own and you've every right to it.

I do hate the mirrors tho and I'll probably find some way to fit the TJ style mirror on my JK.

Oh, and don't get me started on those Unlimited owners. Pfft...


Sindow posted:

I forget what company makes it but there's this equipment meant for the JKs that mounts onto a roof rack and it's a pop-up tent. You can roll it up or down with a handle and it looked pretty cool, has anyone tried those yet?

I actually thought about getting one of those for camping this weekend but then came to my senses and said "Why the hell would I need that when my tent works perfectly fine thrown on the ground? And it's already paid for." It is a neat idea though.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

Molten Llama posted:

On another note entirely, how are the JK Wranglers holding up for you guys that have had them a while? I'm shopping for one, but people on the internets bitching about rusty hinges and the Freedom Top are making me worry.

I'm sure this won't count for much since I only have about 750 miles on my JK, but I'm still very much in love with it.

I went camping this last weekend and took it on a few trails. It is now covered in dirt and mud, has some nice pinstriping on the tub, a dent in the right rear corner of the bumper, a dented tail pipe, and I realize I need some skid plates. I also ripped the rear driver's side fender off when I caught it on a stump. Fortunately, Jeep knew what they were doing - it popped right back on. I broke two or three of the fender clips so I'll buy some new ones, but you'd never know it came off by looking at it.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

Jdohyeah posted:

What's wrong with leasing a Wrangler?

Heh, I think he was alluding to the fact that beating the crap out of a leased vehicle could wind up costing you a lot at the end of the lease.

But no, I bought mine.

In other news, if anyone is considering buying this TJ in Seattle:
http://tinyurl.com/65mx2p
let me know and I'll tell you everything that's wrong with it (it's my old one).

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

Qweezy posted:

Also, I'd like to eventually take this guy out and do a littl off-roading. How much can I expect to spend to get started? From what I've read, taking a Wrangler out stock isn't the greatest idea in the world.

Thanks for any help or advice!

Take her off road. Do it. The TJ was meant for that!!

Also, keep those running boards on. I kept mine on my old TJ and figured I'd go until they were ripped off by a rock. They never were and actually worked as semi-decent rock-sliders. Just don't get too attached to them. (Little anecdote - I was on a trail with 3 other built Jeeps and my 'mostly' stock TJ. We passed some other people coming down and one person was all "How did you get that stock TJ up here? Holy poo poo! You still have your running boards?!") If you learn to drive it, that Wrangler will serve you well off-road.

Plus, having both tops is a boon. Keep the soft-top on in the summer months and throw the hard-top on in the winter.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

InitialDave posted:

... and the Rubicon is V6/auto only...

No, you can get the Rubicon Unlimited with the 6-speed manual (in the US anyway, don't know about anywhere else).

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

ethanol posted:

Hey guys, I just found a 97 TJ 4.0L with 82000 miles. It DOESN'T have a dana 44, but the price seems pretty drat good. $4200.

What do yall think?

What's wrong with it? That seems awfully low for a 97 with that few miles. Unless the owner is just trying to get rid of it because of gas mileage.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

ethanol posted:

As far as I can tell, nothing. I'll of course drive it before I get near to buying it.

Hmmm... well, definitely get a carfax and a mechanic to check it over. At that price, something seems amiss. I would personally be tempted to pick it up and make it into a dedicated trail rig. $4200 is cheap!

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

Rhyno posted:

I have no LW and no means of getting to a store to get any. I'm a bit scared to put a pry bar on there as well but if that's the only way it's gonna get done I will do it.

I was going to suggest going and getting a slide-hammer but since you have no way to get to the store, I'd prolly go with the pry-bar.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

ethanol posted:

Phoenix, AZ. Yeah I've been browsing it all. I'll find one eventually, I was just really excited about the mileage on this one.

How about this one?
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/car/748566919.html

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

ethanol posted:

I emailed that guy a few days ago. My loan wants a 98 or newer with less than 100,000 miles and he had a dana 35 anyways so I didn't pursue.

Ahh.

Quick question - how much and what type of wheeling do you plan on doing?

I just ask this because my 99 TJ had the 35 in the back and I ran 31" A/Ts on a 2" lift and had no problems running trails with my friend's in their built rigs. It was mostly due to knowing how to drive and picking the right line but I never once broke an axle.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

Just did a trail write-up with pics of the new Rubi:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...hreadid=2899151

In case anyone here is interested.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

ethanol posted:

Yeah, I test drove a $12,000 sahara and the dealer knocked it down to $9,000 when I said I wouldn't pay 12k. That sahara sucked though.

Don't worry, the perfect Jeep will show up. Just a matter of time.

In other news, my old TJ must have been sold (or sent to auction) because it's been gone from the dealer website for a week now. My condolences to whomever purchased it.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

ethanol posted:

Post script.. it has one small little quirk and that's a little resistance going into second gear, you've got to make sure you push it far enough... it doesn't feel like the clutch is bad, it shifted quite well, my old pickup had the same problem and I had that thing forevvvver.

Does it have a body lift on it? I remember way back in the day when I had a body lift (puke) on my Toyota it made shifting into 2nd a bit of a chore. I had to trim a bit of the tub around the shifter to allow for full movement, but once I threw the shift boot back on, it would sometimes pull it out of gear.

That being said, where are the pictures of your new TJ?!

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

ethanol posted:

So does anybody remember how I bought that TJ a weeks ago? Well I'm still waiting for their bank to clear the lien and pick it up... I'm loving sick of waiting.

What? That's stupid. If buying private party, you should always go with the seller to their bank and get all the paperwork done then. Even if their bank doesn't have immediate access to the title, you should still be able to get by with the bill of sale in the interim.

I was wondering what happened. Didn't see any pics posted yet!

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

ethanol posted:

Fan Stuff

It's your blower switch. $30 from the dealer. I had the same problem with my TJ - the fan only worked on level 2 (4 if I wiggled it). The switches have a reputation for going out.

Pull your switch cluster and then remove the blower switch. Don't let them tell you you need to buy the whole cluster (I've heard some dealers tell TJ owners this). It's a really simple fix - I did it in the dealer parking lot.

BTW, beautiful TJ! Congrats! Now go get it dirty.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

ethanol posted:

I pulled apart my center dash and put in the new blower control switch. The old one was melted.. and so was a big chunk of the plastic connection on the wiring. I just ignored it and installed the new switch and it worked on all speeds. Thanks for the tip braincloud!

If your poo poo was melted, you need to install some aftermarket relays in addition to your new switch, otherwise you'll eventually have the same problem. For some reason, some TJs have an issue with the switches getting super hot and destroying all sorts of wiring. Luckily, mine didn't have that problem.

Tossed_Salad_Man posted:

somewhere out there is a guide on how to upgrade the melted part. I'd check the jeep forums but someone out there makes upgraded poo poo that won't melt. fyi for future......stuff.

Here is an article about it, although the how-to is a little sparse:
http://www.jpmagazine.com/techartic...tion/index.html

I've seen a more in depth how-to on a jeep forum but can't find it at the moment. With a bit of searching, I'm sure you can come up with it. I highly suggest you do this though, since you have the melty problem.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

leica posted:

Question. I recently had my 99 Cherokee off road, went to go up steep little hill, and after a little struggling got up the hill and noticed a burning smell. Smelled kind of like burning brakes, my 11 year old nephew said it smelled like food burning.

It lasted just for a bit and then went away, I went up the same hill two more times later, but in 4WD low, and didn't notice it again. Any ideas what the burning was?

Also, after the off road outing with my nephew, he said "holy crap I want a Jeep".

Is it a manual? Sounds like your clutch was slipping.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

Finally got to the top of my mine trail to retake this pic with the Ruby



Show us your Roobies!

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

sw0cb posted:

Herro!


Thats my 08 Rubicon, 2.5 inch lift with 35 inch Baja Claws and lots and lots of mud.

What kind of lift do you have on there? How's the ride? Is it still as cushy as the stock ride. I've been thinking of lifting my JK Rubi but really love how cushy it is on the road and don't want to put on a stiffer suspension.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

A few pics from the Jeepin' campin' hikin' trip I did over the holiday weekend. Nothing super exciting and no action shots (most pics were from our mountain climbing).


The Rubi and the view from camp.

The next morning I awoke to find my balls in my stomach and this on the Jeep:



Yes, that reads 35 degrees. In August. The weather was partly sunny with random snow flurries. In August.


It was so cold, I had to turn the heater on to defrost both the breakfast eggs and my friend.


The Rubi with the false-summit we hiked. The real summit is behind it and really not much further - an easy climb. Just under 7000 feet elevation.

Just a note. On the way back down the trail, I proceeded to test just how low 1st gear, 4-Lo is. The Rubi climbed a 45 degree slope of loose dirt and rock on just idling, and no wheel slip at all. I was impressed.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

BigKOfJustice posted:

SWB JK is a pretty nice setup, my friend had to special order one and wait 2-3 months for it to show up from the factory. On the upside he got the exact colors and options he wanted. Apparently only 15% of the jk production run so far are SWB.

I was positive I was going to have to order one from the factory, but I was lucky. They actually had one with everything I wanted sitting on the lot. Only one though.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

BigKOfJustice posted:

Another issue is that you're seeing more people buy the JK and not taking it off road at all [I'm seening plenty of JK's in LA with big rims and some that are slammed] which must piss the enthusiasts off.

That and the 4-door model. Pssh.

I keep my JK Rubi covered in mud or dirt and am loathe to put the top on now that it's getting colder here. With the hardtop on, I'll look like every other stock JK around.

On the other hand, I'm near the point where I have to take her in for her 5000 mile check-up and I haven't had any issues with anything. I love my JK more than I ever loved my TJ and, I've said it before, I totally dig all the fancy options. Doesn't mean I won't put her through her paces though.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

Gavitron posted:

The Rubi has the 4.10:1 gear ratio by default,

Let me tell you a little thing I discovered about my 2dr JK Rubi. It's a beast.

I was camping a few weeks ago and decided to see just how low the gearing was and what it was capable of doing. I then proceeded to throw it into 4-Lo and 1st gear (mines a mantran) and got out while it slowly idled up a 45+ degree section of trail covered in loose scree. I jumped back in at the top. Not one wheel slipped the whole way up. I love my Rubi.

edit: come to think of it, I "ghost ride mah whip" a lot when I'm on the trails. My friends think I'm an idiot, but I love watching my Jeep (both my JK and my old TJ) crawl up the trail unassisted.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

incredibull posted:

OK, well when it finally does slip, have fun when it kicks the rear out sideways, continues uphill for a brief period at an angle, then tips over and rolls down the hill right on top of you.

Uh yeah, but since it's going at idle speed, and I'm walking next to it, and the doors aren't on, I'm pretty sure I've got it under control. But if it does happen, I'll be sure to post pics.

(Oh, maybe I should clarify. When I said the ghost ride quip, I didn't mean sitting on the hood - I just get out and walk beside it, or hang off the rollbar. Also, this doesn't happen on technical terrain. I'm not a complete idiot).

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

A few thoughts on the new JK:

After owning my 2 door JK Rubicon for a few months now, I've actually come up with a couple things that bug me about it.

1. It's too quiet. I don't quite get the "feedback" I used to with my TJ. At times I'll be cruising down the freeway only to look at my tach and realize I'm doing 70 in 4th gear. I'm going to eventually put on an aftermarket exhaust and see if that helps.

2. I can't see poo poo out of the back window. It's tiny. And those stupid headrests on the back bench don't help at all either. I took them off and it's a little better, but between the wiper motor and the spare tire, the back window is pretty worthless. I hadn't noticed this before since I had the top off all summer, but now that it's fall and the top is on until June, I'm going to have to live with it.

3. The grille is plastic. Now that's just stupid.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

HolyChase posted:

It has a 128,000 miles on it,

That's quite a lot of miles. I hope you got a good deal on it.

HolyChase posted:

What is the best way to put the Best fit (I think that is what the sticker on it said) soft top back up? Latch it, windows, then push in the sides or some other order? And the back window seems to just hang loose, what am I missing?

It's probably a BestTop. And it sounds like you're missing the tailgate bar that attaches to the bottom of the back window.

Here:
http://www.shopjeepparts.com/bestop...706-p-4484.html
(I just grabbed the first google result - I'm sure you can find a cheaper one).


HolyChase posted:

And should I just take my first tanks 15 mpg as default or could something be wrong? I put premium too but I don't know if it is even worth it.

I got about 15-17 mpg in my TJ. Also, don't use premium. It's not doing you any good and you're just wasting money. I assume you have the 4.0L which runs great off of regular.

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Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

incredibull posted:

Sweet jesus. That's why I'm a bit thankful to live in the PNW, and the west coast in general. The only rigs you really ever find rust on are the ones that came from out of state.

Yeah, up here, it's just us people who rust.

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