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Safety Dance
Sep 10, 2007

Five degrees to starboard!


um excuse me posted:

Torque applied to an object is measured a s Torque=Force*Distance. Distance is defined as the location the force is applied from the acid of rotation. For screwdrivers, this would be defined by the grip diameter, not driver length. Though, the more fingers you can leverage for turning, the more torque you can apply. So it's not entirely true.

This is an excellent username/post combo.

There's a pervasive feeling among screwdriver-users that longer is stronger. It doesn't make sense when you draw a naÔve free body diagram.

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wesleywillis
Dec 30, 2016

A garden full of trees, and a pocket full of cheese.

Would longer shanks (same diameter) twist more, thus theoretically impart less torque than a shorter shank?

Sort of like how torque steer occurs in a FWD car?

Krakkles
May 5, 2003

like and subscribe for more passive-aggressive roadway bullshit adventure in Chigcao

It's probably very negligible, if so. There are a lot of factors that I would think would nullify almost any ability to twist even the most weak screwdriver - amount of power applied, movement of the screw, tendency to cam out, etc.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Once the system is static, the torque applied at the grip of the tool is the same as the torque applied by the tool to the fastener. There's plenty of videos on YouTube showing torque wrench testing with ridiculous combinations of extensions. The grip will rotate slightly further to account for whatever increased twist there is in the shaft, which would still be minimal on any screwdriver length.

MRC48B
Apr 2, 2012



torque limiting on shafts is only a problem for impact drivers.

they sell "torque limiting sticks" so you can brapbrapbrap on car lug nuts to approximately the right torque.

Not really the use case for precision screwdrivers.

wesleywillis
Dec 30, 2016

A garden full of trees, and a pocket full of cheese.

Understood.. About twisting a short screwdriver shaft vs long one.

Speaking of the torque sticks, how do those things work? Are they some kind of spring steel?

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

C-Bangin' it



um excuse me posted:

Torque applied to an object is measured a s Torque=Force*Distance. Distance is defined as the location the force is applied from the acid of rotation. For screwdrivers, this would be defined by the grip diameter, not driver length. Though, the more fingers you can leverage for turning, the more torque you can apply. So it's not entirely true.

I wish I could rotate on more acid.

um excuse me
Jan 1, 2016

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.


Whoops, fixed it. Not that it matters at this point

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

High Energy, Good Feeling!




wesleywillis posted:

Understood.. About twisting a short screwdriver shaft vs long one.

Speaking of the torque sticks, how do those things work? Are they some kind of spring steel?

Each time the hammer in the driver "thwaps" the anvil it twists the torque stick (which, yes, is a quite elastic steel) a certain number of degrees, at which point it acts like a spring exerting (very) approximately 'x' ft-lbs of torque, once the hammer passes up and over the anvil the stick springs back and the process repeats on the next thwap.

bolind
Jun 19, 2005



Pillbug

Elviscat posted:

Each time the hammer in the driver "thwaps" the anvil it twists the torque stick (which, yes, is a quite elastic steel) a certain number of degrees, at which point it acts like a spring exerting (very) approximately 'x' ft-lbs of torque, once the hammer passes up and over the anvil the stick springs back and the process repeats on the next thwap.

Yeah think of it as trying to hammer in a nail with rubber mallets of different hardnesses. At a certain point all the energy goes to making bouncy things go boing and none into the fastener.

We have a crew putting up a fence today, and the head guy has a Paslode pneumatic nail gun the size of a two liter coke bottle. I have zero use case for it, yet I have massive tool envy.

meatpimp
May 15, 2004

Psst -- Wanna buy

EVERYWHERE
some high-quality thread's DESTROYED!



bolind posted:

Yeah think of it as trying to hammer in a nail with rubber mallets of different hardnesses. At a certain point all the energy goes to making bouncy things go boing and none into the fastener.

We have a crew putting up a fence today, and the head guy has a Paslode pneumatic nail gun the size of a two liter coke bottle. I have zero use case for it, yet I have massive tool envy.

Pneumatic or gas? I've got a Paslode framing nailer that uses a gas cartridge to drive the nails. It is the most fun tool I have. It is absolutely massively powerful and honestly a little intimidating. It'll drive framing nails as deep as you want them into whatever.

It's a super simple machine, too. Big piston in a cylinder, push on the nose and it squirts a bit of gas into the cylinder, squeeze the trigger and the rechargable battery sends the igniter some juice and... BAM.

I've used it for a number of framing jobs in the house over the past couple years and love using it every time.

bolind
Jun 19, 2005



Pillbug

meatpimp posted:

Pneumatic or gas? I've got a Paslode framing nailer that uses a gas cartridge to drive the nails. It is the most fun tool I have. It is absolutely massively powerful and honestly a little intimidating. It'll drive framing nails as deep as you want them into whatever.

It's a super simple machine, too. Big piston in a cylinder, push on the nose and it squirts a bit of gas into the cylinder, squeeze the trigger and the rechargable battery sends the igniter some juice and... BAM.

I've used it for a number of framing jobs in the house over the past couple years and love using it every time.

Pneumatic. He has a compressor and a hose.

Didnít realize thatís how the gas powered ones work. So itís basically a potato canon/internal combustion engine in your hand. Metal.

Rough napkin math says he had to put in a thousand nails for this rather small job, so itís definitely warranted.

meatpimp
May 15, 2004

Psst -- Wanna buy

EVERYWHERE
some high-quality thread's DESTROYED!



bolind posted:

Didnít realize thatís how the gas powered ones work. So itís basically a potato canon/internal combustion engine in your hand. Metal.

That's exactly what it is. And it's amazing.

c355n4
Jan 3, 2007



You all have any go to work gloves? Getting kinda sick and tired of mechanix gloves always falling apart.

BigPaddy
Jun 30, 2008

That night we performed the rite and opened the gate.
Halfway through, I went to fix us both a coke float.
By the time I got back, he'd gone insane.
Plus, he'd left the gate open and there was evil everywhere.

I have had cheap ones, expensive ones, they all fall apart in the end so apart from anything really heavy I just use the cheap elastic with latex coated ones now. Can use a pair for a couple of weekends then just throw them away.

tangy yet delightful
Sep 13, 2005




I just buy the HDX branded ones that are some sort of non-cotton breathable backs with leather for the palm and fingers. Then when they wear out after 6 months of weekend warrioring I buy a new pair. Generally I end up with 2-3 pair around in various stages of worn out/covered with dirt/mud/oils. I also, at least pre-pandemic, would keep a box of nitrile gloves for car or stain or paint type work.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





BigPaddy posted:

I have had cheap ones, expensive ones, they all fall apart in the end so apart from anything really heavy I just use the cheap elastic with latex coated ones now. Can use a pair for a couple of weekends then just throw them away.

Yeah, those are my go to as well. I got a pack of them from Costco a while back. Only downside was when I first opened the bag they had some major rubber stank to them, but that's long gone.

I go for nitrile gloves for fluid changes or anything similar where I'm at risk of just full on soaking a hand.

I buy "nicer" gloves for yardwork for vibration insulation and abrasion resistance, but every brand of those wears out pretty quickly as well.

c355n4
Jan 3, 2007



Gotcha, so they all suck and don't pay extra.

Safety Dance
Sep 10, 2007

Five degrees to starboard!


These deerskin gloves are my favorite work gloves
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Firm-Gr...37-06/203465922

powderific
May 13, 2004



Grimey Drawer

I also like the disposable rubber coated cloth maxicut and maxiflex ones. They have really good dexterity and still breath decently. For me they're more functional than the more expensive work gloves.

EKDS5k
Feb 22, 2012

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU LET YOUR BEER FREEZE, DAMNIT


I've posted about these before, they are my go to gloves when I'm working. They fit extremely well and, and I can work 12 hours shifts for days before they wear out/start to lose their form from oil saturation. I actually have hands that aren't covered in cuts and scrapes since I started wearing them, and they're still dextrous enough that I can put together 20ga wiring without taking them off. I think they're about $5 a pair.

For doing heavier stuff I go with these babies. Makes my hands feel invincible. They're like $50 a pair, though.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

Crosspost from the other tools thread

taqueso posted:

So about the compressor I bought: https://www.harborfreight.com/20-ga...ssor-64857.html


I used it for an hour or so and the oil is cloudy and darker, I assume I should flush that. But, should I do more? For example, will the tank come with a coating on the inside? It has 'drain the tank or face the rust monster' warning stickers on it. I have all the stuff to coat the inside with rust treatments and epoxy or epoxy primer. Maybe I should rebuild it right away?

emf
Jul 31, 2002




Re. screwdriver chat:

All other things being equal, the limiting factor for applied torque to the fastener with a screwdriver is the tool-fastener interface. Assuming both the tool and fastener are of average-to-excellent quality and condition, the maximum applicable torque occurs when the driver is precisely on-axis with the fastener; this is especially true for philips (or any other tapered receiver) and slot fasteners. In this respect, it is obvious that the longer shaft driver will be easier to keep on-axis while applying twisting force.

PitViper
May 25, 2003

Welcome and thank you for shopping at Wal-Mart!
I love you!


c355n4 posted:

You all have any go to work gloves? Getting kinda sick and tired of mechanix gloves always falling apart.

I've been using the Hardy ultra durable mechanics gloves from HF, both at work and at home. I bought two pairs about 3 months ago, and I've popped about a quarter inch of the seam on one finger on my work pair. Other than the Velcro wrist closure getting weak, I've got zero complaints about them. For comparison, work provides the nitrile dipped cotton/nylon gloves, and I usually wear holes in the fingers after about two weeks.

https://www.harborfreight.com/ultra...arge-64175.html

Galler
Jan 27, 2008



taqueso posted:

Crosspost from the other tools thread

I'm guessing the tank will outlive the compressor even if it is only drained occasionally. Put an automatic drain valve on it if you really want to do something about it.

eddiewalker
Apr 27, 2004


Iíve had an 18gal HF compressor for almost a decade and decided itís not worth the noise and electricity to fill it from empty every time. I purge out a little rusty water whenever I remember, but itís been fine.

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Gimme Gimme Swedish Fish...



Fallen Rib

taqueso posted:

Crosspost from the other tools thread

Dump the oil it came with, and put in some ND30 motor oil (check to be sure, but that's what most piston compressors take). Change it every year or two if you use the compressor a lot or live in a high-humidity environment. Change it once every 5 if you don't. Check the oil level before you run it for extended periods. Drain the tank whenever you remember. I've got an IR 80G that has a "Massachusetts State Department of Public Safety Inspection" tag on it with a 1974 date, the tank's still fine. Rusty inside, but fine.

Slugworth
Feb 18, 2001

If two grown men can't make a pervert happy for a few minutes in order to watch a film about zombies, then maybe we should all just move to Iran!


c355n4 posted:

You all have any go to work gloves? Getting kinda sick and tired of mechanix gloves always falling apart.
I've used CLC 'Handy Man' gloves for about a decade, each pair lasts probably a year-ish under heavy use (I used to use them when I worked demo). Now that I'm just a weekend warrior, I expect my current pair to last approximately forever. They are the perfect balance of protection vs comfort/dexterity for me.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


EKDS5k posted:

I've posted about these before, they are my go to gloves when I'm working. They fit extremely well and, and I can work 12 hours shifts for days before they wear out/start to lose their form from oil saturation. I actually have hands that aren't covered in cuts and scrapes since I started wearing them, and they're still dextrous enough that I can put together 20ga wiring without taking them off. I think they're about $5 a pair.

For doing heavier stuff I go with these babies. Makes my hands feel invincible. They're like $50 a pair, though.

drat, those Ansell ones aren't even that badly priced on Amazon, and from the sound of it I ruin mechanix gloves (at 15 to 20 a pair) faster than you ruin them working on heavy equipment. I might have to give those a shot.

bolind
Jun 19, 2005



Pillbug

meatpimp posted:

That's exactly what it is. And it's amazing.



I was mistaken. Itís a Tjep, and the contractor was careless enough to leave it in my yard overnight.

I wear a size 11 glove.

On the topic of gloves, those thin mesh ones (MaxiFlex is a brand) are a godsend for keyboard warriors such as myself. I put them on all the time, saves my poor hands from nicks and splinters.

bolind fucked around with this message at 07:29 on May 19, 2020

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.



So what did you nail to what?

bolind
Jun 19, 2005



Pillbug

cakesmith handyman posted:

So what did you nail to what?

Only posed for the pic, didn't exactly have his permission and I'd like a minimum of training before going to town with this.

He's using it for nailing rafters to fenceposts though.

Safety Dance
Sep 10, 2007

Five degrees to starboard!


Ehhh, you just press the business end to the workpiece and pull the trigger. If you're feeling like a pro, then you pull the trigger and press the business end to the workpiece. Make sure your other hand isn't in the way. Now you're qualified to operate a nail gun.

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg


c355n4 posted:

Gotcha, so they all suck and don't pay extra.
Absolutely, positively, not. Gloves are huge industry, many of the quality ones are still made in the USA/Canada.

There are several brand names of good quality gloves, like Bob Dale, Ansell, Superior, Watson, and tons more I'm missing. The catch is not buying your gloves at a Walmart or Home Depot and buying them from a store that sells legit industrial safety supplies. Ironically, they might even be cheaper than the big box store poo poo gloves because stores make crazy margin on their gloves.

Here is a company whose gloves I use:

https://www.watsongloves.com/produc...ons/automotive/

If I am changing the oil, I use a disposable nitrile or latex. Not fussy on that, although I am giving a preference to their green monkey because they actually decompose in landfill.

I find under hood work I like a dip like this type (thin so it doesn't get in the way, gives very good dexterity, grip and strong and some basic cut resistance). https://www.watsongloves.com/produc...tinger/?cat=166

Heavy work, like working underneath or breaking bolts, I like these with some impact resistance. https://www.watsongloves.com/produc...extime/?cat=166

Most quality gloves can be washed - even the leather/goatskin gloves.

Safety Dance
Sep 10, 2007

Five degrees to starboard!



Are you able to order directly from Watson? It looks like their "Where to Buy" only lists canadian retailers.

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg


I am an industrial wholesaler and I have several styles on my shelf, but I am by no means a married to watson.. I just like their stuff.

I thought they were US too..? Never checked into it myself. I actually thought they were a US company LOL. Sorry about that!

Bob Dale is another US manufacturer(and importer) and they make fantastic gloves too - especially the specialty gloves. A plant I deal with uses their stuff exclusively. Their various welding and arc gloves are great, although Watson welding gloves are tough to beat for the $$.

The real trick with gloves is to use a quality brand name, and the right glove for the job. There are certainly some more multi-purpose than others, but when my company started getting into the safety side of thing I was shocked by how many different gloves and the different fits/quality versus the junk I'd usually just buy wherever. Some retailers do carry a few of the "mass market" common gloves from manufacturers, but rarely the good stuff. It's all $$ driven.

Those dipped gloves in particular can be shockingly good and are way more multipurpose than I realized. Sized right, they will fit perfect and still give you the dexterity to grab tiny stuff and be cut resistant. The extra grip on some of them make holding slippery tools soooo much easier.

Krakkles
May 5, 2003

like and subscribe for more passive-aggressive roadway bullshit adventure in Chigcao

Speaking of gloves, when I first was learning how to weld, I had a pair of sleeves that looked something like this, but they were Kevlar lined, heat and abrasion resistant. Is that still a thing?

(The linked one may do well enough, I just remember the Kevlar ones working really well and I'd like to get another set if possible.)

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg


Oh yeah, for sure. Sell lots of them, but not as many gloves. Welders are extremely fussy with their gloves and sleeves.

https://www.superiorglove.com/en/ma...-made-in-canada

Here is an oldschool cowhide
https://www.watsongloves.com/produc...elders-sleeves/

Many glove companies make sleeves, but usually not as many different types. Superior (that top link) probably make the most varied selection.

Some companies make the big chainmail gloves for meat processing which for some reason I am fascinated with.

slidebite fucked around with this message at 19:05 on May 19, 2020

SEKCobra
Feb 28, 2011


I have been very happy with my Mechanix for a long time.

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Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

High Energy, Good Feeling!




If you want nitrile gloves that don't suck, I recommend these guys tough, good non-slip texture, come sized for people with giant mitts.

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