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Fearless
Sep 3, 2003

DRINK MORE MOXIE



The Eyes Have It posted:

Dang, that looks amazing. Hope it shoots as good as it looks, if so then you've basically won shooting.

Thank you! Folks seem to be reporting that their groups are opening up a bit, but the suspicion is that this might be because they are running loads meant to be cycling a gas system and are thus overpowered. When I get it to the range on Monday or Tuesday I will know more.

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Thermos
Mar 29, 2019



Hmm I will have to keep that in mind when I build my Maverick. I'm thinking now that I'll just keep the 6.5 barrel and use it for long range and if I really like the platform I'll get a complete rifle in 300 blk.

I read somewhere they are also working on a lower with proprietary mags. No idea on capacity but it would be cool to have the option of a NR SBR with standard cap mags to take in the woods.

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003







It'll be interesting to see if people start developing loads for this specifically.

large hands
Jan 24, 2006


Martytoof posted:

It'll be interesting to see if people start developing loads for this specifically.

A bolt action .223? I'm not a reloader or anything but I'm sure it's been done.

Thermos
Mar 29, 2019



I'm betting loads will be similar to something like the Ruger ranch, where the OAL is limited by the STANAG mag. Curious to see if their new mags will allow for longer OALs (Hopefully yes).

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003







Oh yeah, I didnít think too much before I asked that, in hindsight itís obvious that itíll be easy to develop for

Fearless
Sep 3, 2003

DRINK MORE MOXIE



Thermos posted:

I'm betting loads will be similar to something like the Ruger ranch, where the OAL is limited by the STANAG mag. Curious to see if their new mags will allow for longer OALs (Hopefully yes).

Being able to use longer, heavier bullets in these could be downright fascinating.

Kramjacks
Jul 5, 2007



Karl on Inrange said they would use really long OAL rounds in NRA high power and just load them into the chamber by hand for each shot.

Fearless
Sep 3, 2003

DRINK MORE MOXIE



Maple Ridge Armouries Renegade Review Time!!


Woody Wood Wifle, No. 1 Mk. 2. Goodbye, old friend.

So a bit of the backstory for anyone that has been in a coma for the past few years. Back in late 2018, rumours began to circulate that the governing Liberal party was exploring a ban on AR-15s and a number of other semi-automatic firearms via an order in council, essentially the Canadian parliamentary equivalent of an executive order or royal decree. This triggered a panic buy of AR platforms that lasted for several months, with the expectation that owners of such rifles would be granted a prohibited license should those rifles wind up being prohibited. I'll be the first to admit that I initially dismissed this, on the grounds that 1) Tony Clement, the Conservative MP that really pushed this story, is a slimy bastard who was run out of the caucus for a sexting scandal and 2) if the Canadian Tories are given the choice between talking about something the Liberals legitimately hosed up, or something they made up themselves to make themselves angry, they will go with the latter almost every time.

Boy howdy was I wrong!

In the spring of 2020, after a horrific mass-shooting in Nova Scotia that took the lives of 23 innocent people the Liberals opted make everyone safer not by addressing the massive, persistent and chronic issues with the way the RCMP handles domestic violence reports, arms smuggling or fails to investigate reports of illegal weapons possession, but by indeed using an Order in Council to effectively ban a wide array of AR-15 variants and other semi-automatic rifles and other firearms. This likewise enabled the brain trust in the RCMP's firearms lab, which apparently has the spatial recognition skills of a toddler attempting to ram a square block into a round hole, to start banning things that looked vaguely like ARs and century old shotguns as too dangerous to be owned by the public. A metric shitload of Canadians, myself included, found themselves in the unsettling territory of owning a prohibited firearm with piss-poor guidance on what to do with them (and we still don't fully know).

But enough of that bullshit...

Over the past couple of years, a couple of Canadian companies have sought to offer alternatives that allow AR-15 owners to use components from those and certain other MSRs in a new upper and lower receiver that is functionally a bolt action rifle and which cannot either be converted to be a semi-automatic rifle or be used with AR-15 receivers themselves. There are a number of benefits to this over just buying a Savage Axis to burn through your stock of .223 Remington, such as:

-Being able to minimize waste by reusing existing components;
-Maintaining a fairly compact, light profile;
-Mostly maintaining a familiar manual of arms.

Spectre Ballistics makes the Light Practical Carbine, a shockingly light and compact receiver set (I got to handle one today) that is just a straight pull bolt. Maple Ridge Armouries' offering is the Renegade (with the AR-10 replacement Maverick coming soon if it isn't out already) and it differs by using the buffer and spring of the AR-15 to help power the bolt back into place when pulled back.

For this reason, I opted for the Renegade; it is rather more expensive but I was able to find one on-sale at True North Arms a few weeks ago that brought the price down considerably. I also find it more aesthetically pleasing overall. Assembly was pretty straightforward: you use all of the components from a standard AR-15 lower except the takedown pins and the bolt catch to assemble what MRA refers to as the "bottom metal" but really is in essence a trigger pack.



The upper metal/receiver is what the barrel and stock attaches to. The existing Renegade kit comes with a gas ring that is held in place by a socket screw to block off the gas port in an AR and also a proprietary adapter for a six position stock-- if you have a fixed, A2 stock like I do you need to order a separate adapter that costs about $10. This was the first irksome thing I noted about this rifle: I wish I had been able to select that A2 adapter as an option on purchasing the kit rather than having an extra part I don't need. The second irksome thing was that it turns out that the gas system in an AR also helps to keep the handguard from rotating in circles around the barrel! I get the impression that while the Renegade is backwards compatible with all kinds of former AR-15 bits, it was really meant to be running with a free-floating M-lock handguard and so someone using a more traditional carbine guard like mine is going to have to get a bit creative because the supplied gas ring absolutely will not lock down the hand guard cap tight enough to keep your bipod from doing barrel rolls (literally). What I wound up doing was getting another gas block (the A2 sight/gas block i had was absolutely butchered during the removal process) and using a chopped down length of gas tube running from the gas block (and also plugging that entirely) and into the teeth of the barrel nut to keep that handguard in place. So far, it works quite well.



And this is the completed Woody Wood Wifle No. 2 Mk. 1*. I was able to get it out to the range today and was delighted to discover that it ran like a top. My AR wore either a Vortex Sparc II red dot or a Bushnell AR Optics 1-4x, but for the Renegade I wanted a scope with a bit more magnification and opted for a Vortex Crossfire II 3-9x. I've had a Diamondback 4-12x in the past and found that that was entirely too many Xs for my taste and today's shooting confirmed my choice. I've also opted for a simple thread protector rather than any larger muzzle device at this time. It helps to keep the rifle quite compact-- its overall length is 34.5".



The bolt handle can be positioned on either side of the rifle for easier ambidextrous use but it will definitely only eject out the right side of the rifle. Initially, I had mine on the right reasoning that I would use my trigger hand to cycle the bolt like I would my Lee Enfields or Ross Rifle. In practice while shooting off the bench I found that this was suboptimal as it really affected my sight picture and so I switched the bolt handle to the left side and used my support hand to cycle the action. This was much, much better. In terms of "What's it like?" I would compare it to shooting a Cooey 64 that isn't cycling properly, albeit with a far nicer handle. You haul the bolt back and let it drive forwards on its own. It's loud, but it is surprisingly effective.

I brought about 120 rounds with me, some factory PRVI 5.56mm and some hand loaded bulk that I slapped together before the OiC came down with an eye to some plinking. Neither is super precise by any stretch of the imagination, but I was able to produce some tolerable results with it:



This was the last 10 rounds of the day, fired at 100m and fairly rapidly at that.



Again, 100m. 4 rounds of handloaded ammo, the fifth shot was a dud which I ejected then tossed in a dud bucket. Somewhere to the north, Kupachek shed a solitary tear.

Another person on the range (the fellow with the LPC, in fact) was given a chance to shoot Woody and rather liked it. I am happy with my choice, but I still cannot get over how incredibly light the LPC was. Those are going to be a real joy to carry in the woods on longer hunts, I bet. The Range Warden also had a crack at the Renegade as well and was also impressed with how light it was-- I do not think that this is necessarily the case as at no point have I gone out of my way to make this rifle lighter, but I wouldn't say that it is uncomfortably heavy by any stretch of the imagination.

Things I like
-It worked with minimal fuss, unlike lots of other projects I have that involved a lot more wasted time, money and swearing.
-It's accurate.
-I get to keep shooting 5.56mm!
-I get to keep a mostly familiar compact rifle, right down to the familiar "Sproing!" noise that the buffer spring makes, no matter how much you grease it.
-Easy to use, very relaxing to shoot but also easier on ammo consumption than a semi-auto.
-It looks amazing.
-The full colour instructions that come with the kit.
-MRA's customer service is excellent and they seem to be genuinely interested in looking after their clientele.

Things I don't like as much
-The lack of a bolt hold open. I hope this is remedied in a later revision of the design. It could be a very simple but meaningful change that would make things like cleaning on the fly a hell of a lot easier.
-Not being able to choose certain kit options so as to not have to discover that I needed additional parts.

Overall Impressions

I left the range today feeling extremely relaxed and happy. I shoot for the enjoyment of the sport, and this rifle is a joy to shoot. I'd say that overall I am thrilled with my Renegade and cannot wait to see what I can really get it to do with some very carefully loaded ammunition.

Fearless fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Mar 10, 2021

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




That's gorgeous furniture. You done good.

But if I'm ever dropping serious cash on furniture, it's going to be for that Sugar Skull one.

Fearless
Sep 3, 2003

DRINK MORE MOXIE



Captain Log posted:

That's gorgeous furniture. You done good.

But if I'm ever dropping serious cash on furniture, it's going to be for that Sugar Skull one.

It's all recycled from my AR-15. That rifle wound up getting the Woody Wood Wifle name from a state 2-Gun champion and as it happens wood on an MSR really just works, especially when it is -20C and you are trying to shoot in a 2-Gun competition in Alaska and so I really wanted to keep it. It is one of three firearms in my collection that are named: my single SMLE restored from the ruins of at least six other rifles is affectionately dubbed FrankEnfield and the oldest shootable firearm (repros need not apply) in the collection is designated "Ol' Blastie" until another older firearm shows up. Currently, my 1864 Snider Enfield wears that crown, but if I ever get that 1844 Asa Waters pistol back into shooting shape, that will take the title.

Thermos
Mar 29, 2019



Great write-up! Thanks for sharing your impressions.

Oh yeah I think the Maverick comes with a bolt release, so you can bet it will be on the gen 2 Renegade. No idea when that will be released though.

Interesting about the weight of the LPC, I hadn't considered that. Might need to look into it for my 300 blk build..

CmdrSmirnoff
Oct 27, 2005
happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy

loving gorgeous build, wowsers.

quote:

Interesting about the weight of the LPC, I hadn't considered that. Might need to look into it for my 300 blk build..

Same but 458 SOCOM

The Eyes Have It
Feb 9, 2008

Third Eye Sees All
...snookums

Tactical Imports has more Type 81 LMG in stock, they say it's the last of 'em.

Fearless
Sep 3, 2003

DRINK MORE MOXIE



Thermos posted:

Great write-up! Thanks for sharing your impressions.

Oh yeah I think the Maverick comes with a bolt release, so you can bet it will be on the gen 2 Renegade. No idea when that will be released though.

Interesting about the weight of the LPC, I hadn't considered that. Might need to look into it for my 300 blk build..

I would be tempted to get the replacement parts just for the hold open itself, but I am overall so pleased with the rifle that I don't think it would be much of a deal breaker.

I also really hope that the Renegade and the LPC are the beginning of something new and really interesting for Canadian shooters. They are intriguing platforms that have a lot to offer-- I think that the LPC in particular has a lot of potential to be a fantastic bush/hunting rifle depending on how it is set up because of how unbelievably light it is. This might be a case of making lemonade after being handed lemons, but we may be looking at a real revolution in modern sporting rifles here because now not all roads lead to the AR-15.

Thermos
Mar 29, 2019



I was thinking the same thing. For most people right now its a way to use AR parts while their receiver is in OIC jail, but I think the real staying power will be in the ability to create very light, compact non-restricted rifles in a large variety of calibers.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



I kind of reluctantly agree. Like before the recent wave of ban hysteria, it was a weird dance of whether something was an AR or not, and thus whether it was restricted or not. Now that restricted line in the sand doesn't even exist any more, for all intensive porpoises. The writing on the wall is pretty clear, which allows domestic manufacturers to adapt accordingly. Resulting in some great innovations in manual action ARish platform things.

I recall being weirdly excited when I first seen a live fire demo of the LPC, which was still very early in our current kerfuffle of bullshit. Just a sort of vague feeling of "Yeah, that will work"

Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


I still want ARs back, because now my newsletters are full of Type 97s and those are ugly even for Norinco (and ethically dirty even for guns).

Frank Dillinger
May 16, 2007
Jawohl mein herr!


Shumagorath posted:

I still want ARs back, because now my newsletters are full of Type 97s and those are ugly even for Norinco (and ethically dirty even for guns).

Wait, how are the T97s ethically dirtier than other guns? Are they solely built in Uighur Re-education camps?

Thermos
Mar 29, 2019



I want AR's back because WK-180s and MCRs are ugly and kind of crappy for a $1500 (or whatever they currently go for) rifle.

Maybe ATRS will win their lawsuit against the RCMP lab and we can have a very expensive but not crappy AR-like thing again.


Edit: Can somebody clarify how OAL regulations work for manual actions with fixed stock. I was under the impression that as long as the stock doesn't fold or telescope there is no min OAL, which is why stuff like this is NR. If that's the case could we have some LPC/renegade builds with hilariously short barrels?

Thermos fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Mar 11, 2021

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



The relevant bits are:

quote:

Restricted
What's included in this class
  • Handguns that are not prohibited firearms
  • Firearms that:
    • are not prohibited firearms
    • have a barrel less than 470 mm in length
    • are capable of discharging centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner
  • Firearms designed or adapted to be fired when reduced to a length of less than 660 mm by folding, telescoping or otherwise
  • Firearms of any other kind prescribed to be restricted firearms in the Regulations

It doesn't meet all three of the criteria in that one section nor does it fire when folded so game on

Coxswain Balls fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Mar 11, 2021

large hands
Jan 24, 2006


Thermos posted:

I want AR's back because WK-180s and MCRs are ugly and kind of crappy for a $1500 (or whatever they currently go for) rifle.

Maybe ATRS will win their lawsuit against the RCMP lab and we can have a very expensive but not crappy AR-like thing again.


Edit: Can somebody clarify how OAL regulations work for manual actions with fixed stock. I was under the impression that as long as the stock doesn't fold or telescope there is no min OAL, which is why stuff like this is NR. If that's the case could we have some LPC/renegade builds with hilariously short barrels?

Didn't we already have ridiculously short ARs? I had a 10.5" and you could buy as short as you wanted iirc, limited only by the gas system.

kupachek
Aug 5, 2015

We both like to hang out in public bathrooms?!

Thermos posted:

I want AR's back because WK-180s and MCRs are ugly and kind of crappy for a $1500 (or whatever they currently go for) rifle.

Maybe ATRS will win their lawsuit against the RCMP lab and we can have a very expensive but not crappy AR-like thing again.


Edit: Can somebody clarify how OAL regulations work for manual actions with fixed stock. I was under the impression that as long as the stock doesn't fold or telescope there is no min OAL, which is why stuff like this is NR. If that's the case could we have some LPC/renegade builds with hilariously short barrels?

I was considering using a 10" .300blackout barrel on a LPC or Renegade build, mostly because I want something light with a bit of punch to it to sling on my back or across my chest while climbing steep sections. I've done the climbs with a full sized ~ 10 pound rifle, and its not ideal, especially when the bank is sliding. The more compact the better.
Plus it would be darn cute and a hoot to shoot.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



You could go nuts with ARs because they were all restricted. For stuff that isn't restricted by name, if it's semi-auto you can't go shorter than a 470mm/18.5" barrel and if it can fire while folded the OAL can't be less than 660mm/26" or else it becomes restricted.

Thermos
Mar 29, 2019



It's not something I was thinking of doing but I thought short, lightweight build in something like 458 socom could be good as a bear/other dangerous animal defense for people working back in the woods.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



Frank Dillinger posted:

Wait, how are the T97s ethically dirtier than other guns? Are they solely built in Uighur Re-education camps?

Buddy seems to feel very strongly about a Chinese government doing a genocide. Not so much about other governments doing genocides though.

large hands
Jan 24, 2006


Coxswain Balls posted:

You could go nuts with ARs because they were all restricted. For stuff that isn't restricted by name, if it's semi-auto you can't go shorter than a 470mm/18.5" barrel and if it can fire while folded the OAL can't be less than 660mm/26" or else it becomes restricted.

Ah right, thanks for reminding me

Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


Jehde posted:

Buddy seems to feel very strongly about a Chinese government doing a genocide. Not so much about other governments doing genocides though.
I'm all ears for where my H&K's fit into your whataboutism.

large hands
Jan 24, 2006


don't even loving start you guys

mewse
May 2, 2006




large hands posted:

don't even loving start you guys

Yeah, can we not

Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


mewse posted:

Yeah, can we not
k

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

BORN TO DIE
HAIG IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1917
I am trench man
410,757,864,530 SHELLS FIRED




mewse posted:

Yeah, can we not

The Eyes Have It
Feb 9, 2008

Third Eye Sees All
...snookums

I could have sworn the text of the letter I got said something about ARs and their parts are all no-go. Maybe I'm misremembering.

Also Bill Blair clearly wants "if reminds me of an AR, then it is an AR (or if it feels like an effort to not-be-an-AR, that is also an AR)" so ugh.

mewse
May 2, 2006




The Eyes Have It posted:

I could have sworn the text of the letter I got said something about ARs and their parts are all no-go. Maybe I'm misremembering.

Also Bill Blair clearly wants "if reminds me of an AR, then it is an AR (or if it feels like an effort to not-be-an-AR, that is also an AR)" so ugh.

I think there was some mention of their parts being prohib as well but in reality I think it's just upper receivers

Frank Dillinger
May 16, 2007
Jawohl mein herr!


Jehde posted:

Buddy seems to feel very strongly about a Chinese government doing a genocide. Not so much about other governments doing genocides though.

Sorry, what I meant was, compared to other Norinco products

No ethical consumption under capitalism, even more so in the arms industry.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

It would be a sad error in judgement to mistake me for a corpse.


Clapping Larry

Runkle had a video not too long ago about a CBC interview of a criminology guy who was spouting absolute nonsense, apparently the same host had a firearms course teacher on like yesterday, not sure i wanna listen to it




https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio/1-4-bc-today

March 10: Firearms Safety Instructor

February 16: The stupid gently caress - >SFU criminology professor Rob Gordon



Rob "AR-15s aren't even good for hunting deer" Gordon

Rob "The banned weapons are the same ones used in private armies" Gordon

Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Mar 12, 2021

Thermos
Mar 29, 2019



CBC Maritime at noon apparently had a call in show yesterday about C-21. My wife was encouraging me to call in but I told her I just don't have the energy to bang my head against that wall anymore.

Fearless
Sep 3, 2003

DRINK MORE MOXIE



The Eyes Have It posted:

I could have sworn the text of the letter I got said something about ARs and their parts are all no-go. Maybe I'm misremembering.

Also Bill Blair clearly wants "if reminds me of an AR, then it is an AR (or if it feels like an effort to not-be-an-AR, that is also an AR)" so ugh.

According to the RCMP, both upper and lower receivers are prohibited items, with no mention of anything else. When I stripped down my AR to reassign the parts, I informed the CFO that I had stripped the receivers down to bare metal as I interpreted the original registration certificate to mean and discovered that the clerk I spoke to had to make a note of that by writing a memo to her boss as she could no longer access the registrations of now prohibited firearms to amend them.

Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


I'm still banking on the sporting exception, but I'm going to sell one of my handguns since I don't see the point to having more than one in each calibre. What's the procedure for verifying an RPAL remotely and conducting a private sale? Is it enough of a hassle that I should consider losing 20% to consignment?

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Frank Dillinger
May 16, 2007
Jawohl mein herr!


Shumagorath posted:

I'm still banking on the sporting exception, but I'm going to sell one of my handguns since I don't see the point to having more than one in each calibre. What's the procedure for verifying an RPAL remotely and conducting a private sale? Is it enough of a hassle that I should consider losing 20% to consignment?

You call the Canadian firearms center and initiate the transfer, give the file number to the buyer. The buyer calls in and completes it. Once you get confirmation, you either hand off the item or ship it to them. Easy peasy.

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