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The Milkman
Jun 22, 2003

No one here is alone,
satellites in every home


Lipstick Apathy

I jumpstarted my NAS build with two of the 5TB Toshibas pulled from my desktop. They've been running fine the last few years alongside four 5TB Reds. I did put them on the outside edge slots of my case so they'd maybe get more room to cool. But, I don't think there's a meaningful difference.

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Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005



Oven Wrangler

If anyone was looking to buy a premade "server" to use as a NAS, seems like a pretty good deal.

https://arstechnica.com/staff/2018/...o-switch-games/
Dell PowerEdge T30 Mini Tower Server - Intel Xeon E3-1225v5 for $319.99 at Dell (use code: 319T30EX - list price $737).

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


Internet Explorer posted:

If anyone was looking to buy a premade "server" to use as a NAS, seems like a pretty good deal.

https://arstechnica.com/staff/2018/...o-switch-games/
Dell PowerEdge T30 Mini Tower Server - Intel Xeon E3-1225v5 for $319.99 at Dell (use code: 319T30EX - list price $737).

Only thing about those is they have terrible 3.5" capacity... two drives by default and I guess you could put another 3 in the 5.25" drive cages with an adapter and a SATA card.

8-bit Miniboss
May 24, 2005

Settin' the world on
FIRE!


On that note, Iíll recommend against the Lenovo TS440 if youíre planning to start small and expand. Itís been discontinued and most of the parts are as well including the HDD Expansion kit that gives you 4 more hot swap slots.

Entirely too big for just 4 drives which has me switch up my hardware now (previous posts).

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005



Oven Wrangler

Paul MaudDib posted:

Only thing about those is they have terrible 3.5" capacity... two drives by default and I guess you could put another 3 in the 5.25" drive cages with an adapter and a SATA card.

Sorry, I just saw this and thought folks had recommended them in the past -

"Consolidate data and media files with six internal hard drive bays supporting large storage capacity"

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


Internet Explorer posted:

Sorry, I just saw this and thought folks had recommended them in the past -

"Consolidate data and media files with six internal hard drive bays supporting large storage capacity"

Oh, huh, maybe you need an expansion kit or something? I only see two drives in the pics.

Eletriarnation
Apr 6, 2005

People don't appreciate the substance of things...
objects in space.


Pillbug

I think the secret is that you can remove the 5.25" slim optical drive and replace it with two 2.5" drives, plus mount two 3.5" drives up top in addition to the two below for a total of six. At least, I have the T20 and it works like that if I recall correctly.

It's a great box for the price if you just want to host VMs or whatever, but the proprietary power supply and mediocre airflow make it not the best NAS in my experience unless you plan to have <=2 3.5" drives. I had to wedge in an additional fan (there are no additional fan mounts) to keep my RAID5 cool and I only have the exact number of SATA power connectors needed to have one for every drive bay, so there's not much choice in how the drives are cabled.

Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at Sep 20, 2018 around 20:00

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!


I've got one of those T30's here I'm setting up for a client. It's got two 3.5" bays on the bottom with the blue plastic sleds, a folded down sheet metal style third one, and two 5.25" bays that include 3.5" blue plastic sleds inside of them, so they can fit smaller drives. Essentially this means that it's got spots to put 5 disks by default and the dvd-rom on top is a slim model. Unlike a lot of Dell's consumer line it even has spare sata cables running to each area but it only has four on-board SATA connectors. It's also got a nonstandard power setup, with 4 pin for CPU being normal but a nonstandard 8 pin for board power. The drives have a weird on-board power to sata power connector setup instead of coming directly from the PSU. It'll be a decent cheap box but may leave a little to be desired for expansion or upgrades.

We ordered it a couple of weeks ago from dell small business for $319. They originally said it would arrive on the 19th but it showed up on the 11th.

Eletriarnation
Apr 6, 2005

People don't appreciate the substance of things...
objects in space.


Pillbug

Yup, looks identical to the T20.

That third bay on top made of sheet metal doesn't totally count, because the front panel cable is running through that space and I wasn't able to actually fit a regular drive far enough in to secure it well as a result. I used it with a 2.5"->3.5" adapter to mount an SSD. The two above it with the plastic sleds work fine, but if both are filled and constantly spinning they will run pretty hot without additional airflow.

Adapters are out there to connect ATX power supplies to that nonstandard 8-pin, but it is an additional thing to consider for anyone who might be thinking of connecting a large GPU since there are no PCIe power connectors on the stock 280W supply. It said not to put more than 25W in the top PCIe slot but I think that's probably not a real concern, I had no issues running an RX 460 in it.

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Gimme Gimme Swedish Fish...

Fallen Rib

8-bit Miniboss posted:

On that note, Iíll recommend against the Lenovo TS440 if youíre planning to start small and expand. Itís been discontinued and most of the parts are as well including the HDD Expansion kit that gives you 4 more hot swap slots.

Entirely too big for just 4 drives which has me switch up my hardware now (previous posts).

It's a shame too, they're well-built. I've got the expansion cage, cable, and power board in mine though. It took like 3 months of eBay saved searches to find them.

eightysixed
Sep 23, 2004

I always tell the truth. Even when I lie.


I finally got the new unRAID box setup last night. 5x4TB (1 as parity) and an SSD cache drive. Brand new drives, brand new i3 blah blah. The disks are blank. It's building parity at the non-lightning fast speed of 35-60MB/sec and is going to take 28 hours. Why is it taking that long to build the parity drive off of blank disks. Even as so, why is it going to so slow? Is it normal, and this is what I should be expecting from read/write as I go forward? Seems a bit odd...

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
Can't install Windows?
BUY APPLE


eightysixed posted:

I finally got the new unRAID box setup last night. 5x4TB (1 as parity) and an SSD cache drive. Brand new drives, brand new i3 blah blah. The disks are blank. It's building parity at the non-lightning fast speed of 35-60MB/sec and is going to take 28 hours. Why is it taking that long to build the parity drive off of blank disks. Even as so, why is it going to so slow? Is it normal, and this is what I should be expecting from read/write as I go forward? Seems a bit odd...

Computation of parity is O(1). No matter the data ("blank" doesn't count) you must compute the parity if you're doing a full initialization.

As for the speed, you're limited by the one destination disk if you're doing consolidated parity, I assume you're doing distributed parity? (DDDDD+DDDDD+DDDDD+DDDDD+PPPPP vs DDDDP + DDDPD + DDPDD + DPDDD + PDDDD)

eightysixed
Sep 23, 2004

I always tell the truth. Even when I lie.


H110Hawk posted:

I assume you're doing distributed parity? (DDDDD+DDDDD+DDDDD+DDDDD+PPPPP vs DDDDP + DDDPD + DDPDD + DPDDD + PDDDD)


What? I have no idea. However unRAID builds Parity

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
Can't install Windows?
BUY APPLE


eightysixed posted:



What? I have no idea. However unRAID builds Parity

Yeah just ignore that part. Unless unraid does anything special parity computation is constant time. As for why you're not getting better write speed I don't know. You should be able to get 100MBytes/s.

If it hasn't tuned the Linux MD rebuild speed sysctl that's potentially why.

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



I was hoping for QuickAssist to include some sort of hardware acceleration for parity calculations, but from a presentation at OpenZFS Developer Summit where an Intel guy covered the QAT additions to ZFS on Linux, it doesn't sound like it's included yet? One can hope.

Speaking of the OpenZFS Developer Summit, here's the video I mentioned in a playlist that has all of the videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zWTU_hnGp0
I wish I could figure out how to link the actual playlist, but SA insists on turning the link into an embedded video.

D. Ebdrup fucked around with this message at Sep 21, 2018 around 20:57

dexefiend
Apr 25, 2003

THE GOGGLES DO NOTHING!


Unraid parity is done bit by bit using an XOR calculation, I think.

DDD = P

000 = 0
001 = 1
010 = 1
011 = 0
100 = 1
101 = 0
110 = 0
111 = 1

By having the 2 remaining disk values, and the parity value, it can infer what the missing value was.

Tldr: It does some math bit by bit across all drives to calculate the parity value. It takes a while.

eightysixed
Sep 23, 2004

I always tell the truth. Even when I lie.


Yeahp, I got the explanation from a friend who is way more in sync (no pun intended) about this than I am.

Having said that, when I got home from work, it finally finished, but unRAID was yelling about heat errors (47C) on the disks. That doesn't seem to bad to me. There are 4 fans in my Fractal case, and A/C stays on 73/74 all the time. We should be good, right? Likely because it was just getting pounded. Idle seems like 42C.

edit: After looking into it further, HGST NAS drives tend to run a bit warmer than others, so I guess I'm in the clear.

eightysixed fucked around with this message at Sep 21, 2018 around 23:53

Devian666
Aug 19, 2008

Take some advice Chris.



Fun Shoe

eightysixed posted:

Yeahp, I got the explanation from a friend who is way more in sync (no pun intended) about this than I am.

Having said that, when I got home from work, it finally finished, but unRAID was yelling about heat errors (47C) on the disks. That doesn't seem to bad to me. There are 4 fans in my Fractal case, and A/C stays on 73/74 all the time. We should be good, right? Likely because it was just getting pounded. Idle seems like 42C.

edit: After looking into it further, HGST NAS drives tend to run a bit warmer than others, so I guess I'm in the clear.

As you've noted these drives do run at a higher temperature and most NAS drives are rated to run in a temperature range of 0 to 65C.

If you are worried about cooling having a couple of fans blowing in and a couple blowing out should be fine. If there is a fan to blow or suck air past the drives it will help.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
Can't install Windows?
BUY APPLE


eightysixed posted:

Yeahp, I got the explanation from a friend who is way more in sync (no pun intended) about this than I am.

Having said that, when I got home from work, it finally finished, but unRAID was yelling about heat errors (47C) on the disks. That doesn't seem to bad to me. There are 4 fans in my Fractal case, and A/C stays on 73/74 all the time. We should be good, right? Likely because it was just getting pounded. Idle seems like 42C.

edit: After looking into it further, HGST NAS drives tend to run a bit warmer than others, so I guess I'm in the clear.

You should be looking at the environmental specs, google "<disk model> specification" and find the sheet for your disk. 60C is allegedly the high point for operating temperature, but that is... toasty. I'm normally one for "if it's in the spec sheet it's good" but I have a feeling you're going to regret that sooner rather than later. I'm also normally talking about enterprise disks in a massive enterprise deployment, not your precious anime stash. For reference, my WD Reds are running at 35C on the hottest disk, ambient is 73 as well from A/C.

4 fans in the case means little to nothing if none of them are pulling air over your disks. Take a look at how the air is actually flowing in your case. A piece of ribbon, a tissue, or toilet paper can be used to detect airflow. Just don't let dusty tissue/toilet paper get ingested into your fans.

https://www.hgst.com/sites/default/...DS_NAS_spec.pdf

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



dexefiend posted:

Unraid parity is done bit by bit using an XOR calculation, I think.
Any distributed parity calculations is either a straight XOR or XOR-derived - it's one of the only mathematical ways to do distributed parity that's also relatively computationally cheap to calculate.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Iím eyeballing an Epyc 3000 series for a NAS build now, any news on when boards are showing up?

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D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



priznat posted:

Iím eyeballing an Epyc 3000 series for a NAS build now, any news on when boards are showing up?
The only vague hint I have is Patrick from ServeTheHome mentioning somewhere that AMD claimed boards would be showing up within 45 days, and that SuperMicro said the SoC "looked interesting" - but since they're embedded chips, we need to have a large customer interested in an order for a company like SuperMicro to make some.
We may have luck with IBASE or AsrockRack, but I wouldn't hold my breath because so far the latter managed to gently caress up the perfectly reasonable Denverton chip, which is capable of delivering both 10G PHY and SATA connectivity, by adding Realtek / other unproven manefacturer NICs and Marvell disk controllers. Similarily, they've released no boards with QAT, so far as I know.

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