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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD
Jul 7, 2012



Fallen Rib

D. Ebdrup posted:

There were some drives, WD Greens among them, that had INCREDIBLY low load-unload cycle count (on the order of 10k) according to spec and design - meaning they would wear themselves out in months if you used them in a RAID array, especially ones that expects error recovery control over drives.

WD Reds are rated for 600k load-unload cycles according to this PDF of the specs, so as Charles said, just let it sleep.
Interesting, certainly reassuring. Does this apply to the white label easystore Reds as well?

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D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:

Interesting, certainly reassuring. Does this apply to the white label easystore Reds as well?
Do you have a model number for them?

Toshimo
Aug 23, 2012

Must be fuckin' nice!


Toshimo posted:

Welp. Just bought 8 of these and a DS-1918+. Pray for me.

And... they've already started getting delivered. What's the proper process to stress test these before shucking?

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


Toshimo posted:

And... they've already started getting delivered. What's the proper process to stress test these before shucking?

Seriously, ordered mine around noon yesterday and they arrived about an hour ago (1pm). Already shucked and throw into my NAS. 3 days of preclearing has begun.

You stress test it after you shuck. I run the Preclear plugin on my UnRaid server which does a pre and post verification as well as the actual clearing.

I used the below two videos successfully in the past for shucking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XyUHcaJLLE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6VCQ64DkfM

Toshimo
Aug 23, 2012

Must be fuckin' nice!


TraderStav posted:

You stress test it after you shuck.

Wait... what? I thought the whole point was to make sure they were good before shucking so that you could return them if there was a problem without getting a raft of poo poo from the retailer.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


Toshimo posted:

Wait... what? I thought the whole point was to make sure they were good before shucking so that you could return them if there was a problem without getting a raft of poo poo from the retailer.

If you follow those videos properly, you can reassemble everything perfectly and return if you need to.

pzy
Feb 20, 2004

Da Boom!


Production is the stress test

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

WD will accept shucked drives for warranty with no issues, as I understand it.

Axe-man
Apr 16, 2005

The product of hundreds of hours of scientific investigation and research.

The perfect meatball.


Clapping Larry

I wonder if any of those are shingled.

ChiralCondensate
Nov 13, 2007

what is that man doing to his colour palette?


Grimey Drawer

TraderStav posted:

If you follow those videos properly, you can reassemble everything perfectly and return if you need to.

I always break the little tabs when I shuck. It's very easy to plug it in via usb3 and run badblocks/whatever before shucking.

Toshimo
Aug 23, 2012

Must be fuckin' nice!


ChiralCondensate posted:

I always break the little tabs when I shuck. It's very easy to plug it in via usb3 and run badblocks/whatever before shucking.

Yeah, my NAS doesn't even come in until next week, so I'm just running WD Drive Utilities since it seemed like a better use of my time than trying to discern how to get badblocks, etc. working under the Windows Unix Subsystem.

ChiralCondensate
Nov 13, 2007

what is that man doing to his colour palette?


Grimey Drawer

Toshimo posted:

Yeah, my NAS doesn't even come in until next week, so I'm just running WD Drive Utilities since it seemed like a better use of my time than trying to discern how to get badblocks, etc. working under the Windows Unix Subsystem.

Sure, I didn't mean to say you should only trust specifically badblocks, just meant that one can and should test before shucking.

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD
Jul 7, 2012



Fallen Rib

D. Ebdrup posted:

Do you have a model number for them?
WD100EMAZ

Henrik Zetterberg
Dec 7, 2007




ChiralCondensate posted:

Newegg has the WD Elements 12 TB for $190 after a dumb code if you have an email signed up for their newsletter (or at least that's what it used to require): https://www.newegg.com/black-wd-ele...N82E16822234406

Out of stock

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


ChiralCondensate posted:

I always break the little tabs when I shuck. It's very easy to plug it in via usb3 and run badblocks/whatever before shucking.

Try it with the 5 pieces of a credit card or guitar picks. Put the four in at the right spots, use the other to wedge it back, no broken tabs.

You can return/RMA as long as you keep the enclosure.


Mine is WD120EMFZ

ChiralCondensate
Nov 13, 2007

what is that man doing to his colour palette?


Grimey Drawer

TraderStav posted:

Try it with the 5 pieces of a credit card or guitar picks. Put the four in at the right spots, use the other to wedge it back, no broken tabs.
I should have said: I don't bother to shuck gently.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


ChiralCondensate posted:

I should have said: I don't bother to shuck gently.

Shuck her gently and she'll keep coming back for me.

It's how you jiggle it, not how hard you slam it in there.

Enos Cabell
Nov 3, 2004



My first batch of shucked drives I took my time, used a cut up credit card, and managed to slice the hell out of my finger with one. This last round all I used was a flathead screwdriver and a bad attitude.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. óBertrand Russell



I get the cover off without breaking anything with 3 table knives and 30-60 seconds. You just slide the blade in there on each side and then pry the on the front side to make it start sliding off.

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



Can't find any Reds that don't have 600k load-unload cycles, so I think you're fine?

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD
Jul 7, 2012



Fallen Rib

Four butterknives. One along each of the long edges. One on each side of the bottom curved edges, into the enclosure. Then twist.

GnarlyCharlie4u
Sep 23, 2007

I have an unhealthy obsession with motorcycles.

Proof


I'm partial to using those tabs you use to close bags of bread to put tension on the clips and space it out, then a screwdriver to pop is open. It's better than using credit cards.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





Imagine four butter knives, on the edge of a cliff

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Hadlock posted:

Imagine four butter knives, on the edge of a cliff

Johnny Five stripes

Warbird
May 23, 2012

Burn the 'dawgs
Kill the Yellowjackets
Purge the Tiger
It is better to die for Bama than to live for yourself


Fun Shoe

Per Wirecutter, the WD 10TB My Book External is on sale for ~$170 with coupon Don't know if it's worth shucking or not, but a heads up.

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



As far as I know, anything above 8TB is worth shucking if you're looking for drives of that size.

Once I get the 8x2TB I've got on the way, I'll be set with 23.46TiB for a little while, and can then start shucking 8TB externals, if they haven't all been replaced by SMR by then.

Mecha
Dec 20, 2003

「チェンジ ゲッタ-1! スイッチ オン!」


Stupid newbie(to NAS setups) coming in.

I've wanted a FreeBSD ZFS NAS for awhile. It's only going to be raw storage for media-storage + video-editing, with maybe some light servers for specialized media(I use NFS/minidlna and some calibre-specific stuff on my ancient Acer Revo settop box).

Thanks to a startup going out of business, my buddy's got 4 1TB 860 EVOS for 40% of retail and a 2TB 860 EVO for 150. What's the word on the best initial drive setups for ZFS, and would those 4 1TB drives be enough for a starter?

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



Usual caveats about ZFS and backup apply, of course - but with those capacities this is roughly what you can use as a guide:
Five drives in a RAIDz2 would give you at least 2TiB, and with RAIDz1 you get at least 2.8TiB usable storage - both at insane speeds. If you go above 80% utilization to make full use of your pool, you'll get slightly less than insane speeds, but it'll let you store up to 2.6TiB or 3.5TiB.

It's up to you to decide if you want to be able to lose two drives or only one drive before you risk data-loss from an URE during a rebuild.
ZFS is smart about data, though - so unlike traditional RAID, it knows which files have been corrupted if an URE during a rebuild happens, and will only ask you to restore the files it's lost from a backup. Traditional RAID will mark the entire array as corrupt.

Froist
Jun 6, 2004



I don't really know what advice I'm looking for here, just spitballing naive ideas.

I've got an N40L that's been my stable NAS for 5 years, running ZFS on Ubuntu 14.04. It's got 4x2tb drives for the main storage pool which is now 96% full, and another 1.5tb drive for the OS which is basically empty. My rate of consumption has gone down drastically, so I guess I'd rather make use of what I have than make an investment in upgrading it right now.

I have the data mirrored onto 3x2tb offline, external drives using some rsync scripts I put together years back. But I'd been getting a bit negligent in keeping these up to date and while I'd prefer it was plug-and-auto-backup (which at one point it was), it now took me a couple of hours to piece together how it all worked and get them updated. Combined with the fact it's still running a 6 year old OS and a bunch of services I no longer use, it feels like time for a fresh start.

So I'm thinking about wiping the lot and rebuilding it with Xpenology, utilising the 5th drive to give me a bit of extra headroom before I have to bite the bullet and do a proper upgrade. I've read that with the N40L I'd need a NIC to be able to run the latest DSM versions, but beyond that how much headache is it running an Xpenology box?

I was also thinking of setting it up as a Plex server to keep my media database centralised, but I'd only be playing on the same LAN and have read that Plex transcodes by default, so maybe I shouldn't go down that route. I've been using Kodi on my smart TV (and previously a NUC for playback), but I'd prefer the database to live with the media than on the playback device. I know you can do that by tinkering with Kodi config files, but in general I feel like I'm 5+ years out of touch with the most appropriate solutions.

Any general advice?

Minty Swagger
Sep 8, 2005

Ribbit Ribbit Real Good


Your hardware is exactly what I have/had. I run an n40L but on unraid, and I HAD 6x2TB drives and an SSD (for scratch space and downloading/unraring files) that I recently upgraded to 6x6TB with the same SSD.

I almost went the XPEnology route until I went unraid because at the time xpenology was rather nacent, so while I cant speak to the hardware requirements for xpenology with an N40L I do remember years ago it was supposed to just work out of the box, somewhat. I cant imagine that has changed...?

In terms of existing hardware if you use one of the PCI-E slots with a SATA expander (just need 2) you can fit up to 7 drives in your N40L. You can fit 2 in the 5.25 bay like so:



With one of these adapters: https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/MM52T35/ - Note that I just found the first site that had the solution I mean, don't order from here, you can for sure find a better deal but thats the hardware.

For the 7th drive you can slide a 2.5 SSD underneath those two drives.
For an additonal onboard SATA slot you can slip an ESATA to SATA cable from the back of the unit back in through one of the PCI-E slots:



And then boot your OS off a thumbdrive via the internal USB port that's on the motherboard.

I've gotten a lot of mileage out of my microserver and while its pretty slow and cant transcode without a video card, its done me well. if you decide to upgrade hit me up, I'm always looking for another one.

Have you installed the modified BIOS to unlock the full 3GBps AHCI on the top SATA port? Do that too if you havent else you'll run into performance issues.
https://n40l.fandom.com/wiki/Bios

Lastly, check out EMBY for managing your databases for Kodi. You still host files locally (vs transcoding) but the DB is all server side in Emby vs built by Kodi.

Good luck!

Minty Swagger fucked around with this message at 19:59 on May 19, 2020

Froist
Jun 6, 2004



Thanks for the tips! I had been using a single 5.25" -> 3.5" adapter to mount in the top bay, I didn't realise the double-drive versions exist. The modified bios rings a bell but it's so long ago that I set it up it's worth me checking again.

The 3x2tb externals I have are all 2.5" drives, so now I'm thinking maybe I should just get a single huge external for my offline mirror (rather than trying to juggle it between multiple drives), then crack my existing externals open to make it 7x2tb internal. That would double my usable space from 6tb to 12tb, which should keep me going for the forseeable future.

Any opinions on a frankenstein card like this? They don't seem that common, but it seems like it would be useful to add USB 3 ports to transfer that amount of data in and out of the box, as well as adding the internal SATA connections.

Minty Swagger
Sep 8, 2005

Ribbit Ribbit Real Good


Brief googling seems to say that card has worked ok before. Give it a try!

If you're planning on putting 2.5 drives into your NAS why not get one of those 5.25 -> 4x 2.5 adapters? Just put 4 in for a total of 9 drives? You might be getting close to the max your PSU can handle though without upgrading that too, so be careful. The original PSU is 150W, but there are ~300W ones floating around online you could upgrade to, if you were so inclined.

Froist
Jun 6, 2004



Minty Swagger posted:

Brief googling seems to say that card has worked ok before. Give it a try!

If you're planning on putting 2.5 drives into your NAS why not get one of those 5.25 -> 4x 2.5 adapters? Just put 4 in for a total of 9 drives? You might be getting close to the max your PSU can handle though without upgrading that too, so be careful. The original PSU is 150W, but there are ~300W ones floating around online you could upgrade to, if you were so inclined.

This is actually what I went with in the end, though itíll be 7x2tb rather than 9 drives (not sure I could manage 9 anyway?).

I do have a spare 1tb 2.5Ē I could put in the last slot, or a small SSD that may be useful for caching (but I donít think any of my workloads would make use of that). I figure the PSU should be fine like this as these exact (bus powered) drives have all been plugged in at once before, and Iím removing a 3.5Ē drive along the way.

Thanks for the tips! Weekend project sorted, if I can get all the data shuffled around by then..

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004



Grimey Drawer

Does anyone make a relatively compact case that is just 6x5.25" drives, that you can fit 2x3-in-5 drive cages in?

I've spent literally hours looking, and so far I've only discovered:

1. Mega-huge chassis that happen to have 6x5.25" drives: https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E168111...&quicklink=true
2. Lots of 4U server chassis that happen to have this on the front, but they're rack sized: https://www.newegg.com/black-silver...N82E16811123155
3. For standard cases, there are several "mid-tower" sized ones that go up to 5x5.25", but I haven't found one with six: https://www.coolermaster.com/catalo...centurion-5-ii/
4. PC parts picker has a few mid-tower sized cases with 6x5.25" external bays! But they've been out of production forever and google hasn't found any in stock: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/c...rt=-type&page=1

Has anyone else had luck finding this perfect case? Is there a case that might be relatively easy to mod to support this?

Less Fat Luke
May 23, 2003

Just the tip!


Exciting Lemon

PC Pitstop sells a bunch of variants (https://www.pc-pitstop.com/sas-expanders-enclosures and https://www.pc-pitstop.com/sas-sata...res-no-expander). You can get them with PSUs, SAS expanders and what not. I recently bought the 15 bay model from them and it comes with an Intel port expander inside and so on - if you email them I believe they'll sell them without the hotswap bays, expanders and so on.

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004



Grimey Drawer

Also related, does anyone know any current good options for compact 8x3.5" hot swap cases?

1. I would pull the trigger on the NSC-810a which is almost perfect, but there is no reasonable timeframe for when it'll be back in stock: http://www.u-nas.com/xcart/product.php?productid=17640
2. There are the three Silverstone cases. The DS380 is pretty close but lots of people have reported cooling issues with this and I'd rather not have to mod it to get good cooling. The CS380 apparently fixes some of these issues but is kind of big. The CS381 looks like a great case, but it's super expensive right now and gigantic.
3. This SuperMicro case that iXsystems uses for their FreeNAS builds looks perfect. But as far as I can tell it's a custom part for them. The 4 disk version is the only one they sell through vendors.
4. There are some interesting NAS cases on AliExpress like this one that look great, but I can't find any reviews.

Anyone else have other options?

Chuu fucked around with this message at 07:09 on May 21, 2020

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004



Grimey Drawer

Less Fat Luke posted:

PC Pitstop sells a bunch of variants (https://www.pc-pitstop.com/sas-expanders-enclosures and https://www.pc-pitstop.com/sas-sata...res-no-expander). You can get them with PSUs, SAS expanders and what not. I recently bought the 15 bay model from them and it comes with an Intel port expander inside and so on - if you email them I believe they'll sell them without the hotswap bays, expanders and so on.

Thanks for the link. I was looking over those and from what I can tell these are just expanders though? Do these chassis have enough room for a matx or itx system inside?

Less Fat Luke
May 23, 2003

Just the tip!


Exciting Lemon

Oh yes they're just expanders, sorry. I found it easier to have a SFF PC and one of the expanders (although now the PC became a regular sized H440 also full of drives).

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


Chuu posted:

Also related, does anyone know any current good options for compact 8x3.5" hot swap cases?

1. I would pull the trigger on the NSC-810a which is almost perfect, but there is no reasonable timeframe for when it'll be back in stock: http://www.u-nas.com/xcart/product.php?productid=17640
2. There are the three Silverstone cases. The DS380 is pretty close but lots of people have reported cooling issues with this and I'd rather not have to mod it to get good cooling. The CS380 apparently fixes some of these issues but is kind of big. The CS381 looks like a great case, but it's super expensive right now and gigantic.
3. This SuperMicro case that iXsystems uses for their FreeNAS builds looks perfect. But as far as I can tell it's a custom part for them. The 4 disk version is the only one they sell through vendors.
4. There are some interesting NAS cases on AliExpress like this one that look great, but I can't find any reviews.

Anyone else have other options?

Not another option, but I have two ds380s.. I like them, and have not modded them. I do only use them for relatively short periods at a time, but I feel the overheating "problem" is a bit overblown.

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Chuu
Sep 11, 2004



Grimey Drawer

Related to my posts above, but I found this thread dedicated to cases that have top-to-bottom 5.25" drives.

tl;dr -- there are none left in 2020.

The antec 900 was pretty much the last survivor, with 9 5.25" drives top-to-bottom, which ended manufacturing sometime in 2019 and there are still a couple NIB out there around $175. Someone mentioned a Antec 1200 (12 5.25" bays top-to-bottom) recently went for more than $300 on eBay used. Some people are suggesting picking up one of these if you might need one. The idea of running a serious-business server in a case that looks like that is hilarious.

It's kind of sad that PC trends have made these cases completely obsolete.

Chuu fucked around with this message at 08:45 on May 21, 2020

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