Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«602 »
  • Post
  • Reply
D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



Chuu posted:

3. This SuperMicro case that iXsystems uses for their FreeNAS builds looks perfect. But as far as I can tell it's a custom part for them. The 4 disk version is the only one they sell through vendors.
You're not the only one that wished they would sell the 8-bay case. It's loving sweet!

HalloKitty posted:

Not another option, but I have two ds380s.. I like them, and have not modded them. I do only use them for relatively short periods at a time, but I feel the overheating "problem" is a bit overblown.
The overheating problem is primarily an issue of the fans placement meaning that air isn't really pushed over the disks, so they get hotter than some people like them to.
This is probably because they have seen the Google study which shows that every degree over 30c decreases HDD lifetime, which makes sense given how electronics work.
They probably don't take into account that Googles disks see a bit more use than their disks do, though.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004



Grimey Drawer

D. Ebdrup posted:

You're not the only one that wished they would sell the 8-bay case. It's loving sweet!

Through some more research I've discovered the case is the Ablecom CS-T80. It seems like noone sells this, and the min order quantity is 32 units. I don't know wholesale price but retail price should be around $200 without a power supply.

If there was ever a group buy I'd be so in. I hope that Supermicro just brings it to the states though.

Really if the price wholesale price was cheap enough, I'm sure there is money to be made reselling them on Amazon. There is certainly a market for them.

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004



Grimey Drawer

D. Ebdrup posted:

The overheating problem is primarily an issue of the fans placement meaning that air isn't really pushed over the disks, so they get hotter than some people like them to.

I've spent some time researching this and really it leaves me a bit confused. There are too many people with too much experience system building for me to believe there really isn't a problem -- but people are reporting temps everywhere between 40c and 65c which is such a crazy range. 65c is right on the edge of the operational range for Reds so that actually is concerning.

From what I can tell there are two mods that seem to make a dramatic difference though:

  • Add a shroud between the drive cage and the edge of the case so airflow can't bypass the cage.
  • Replace the magnetic shroud with a normal grill.

This leads me to believe that maybe just replacing the 120mm fans with higher static pressure fans might go a long way to solve the issue, because both issues (getting air into the heavily shrouded metal cage, getting air through the magnetic filter) could directly result from poor static pressure.

I also wondering if potentially reversing those fans so you have three exhaust fans might be more beneficial as well. In other words force all the air through the cage on ingress instead of trying to cool them by blowing on them from the side.

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



Chuu posted:

Through some more research I've discovered the case is the Ablecom CS-T80. It seems like noone sells this, and the min order quantity is 32 units. I don't know wholesale price but retail price should be around $200 without a power supply.

If there was ever a group buy I'd be so in. I hope that Supermicro just brings it to the states though.

Really if the price wholesale price was cheap enough, I'm sure there is money to be made reselling them on Amazon. There is certainly a market for them.
According to my browser history, I found this case on the 29th of July, 2019 - but I have no memory of it whatsoever. It was apparently available at what was once called massdrop and is now apparently just called drop?
So maybe if enough people in this thread (and elsewhere?) vote for it, there might be another?

Chuu posted:

I've spent some time researching this and really it leaves me a bit confused. There are too many people with too much experience system building for me to believe there really isn't a problem -- but people are reporting temps everywhere between 40c and 65c which is such a crazy range. 65c is right on the edge of the operational range for Reds so that actually is concerning.

From what I can tell there are two mods that seem to make a dramatic difference though:

  • Add a shroud between the drive cage and the edge of the case so airflow can't bypass the cage.
  • Replace the magnetic shroud with a normal grill.

This leads me to believe that maybe just replacing the 120mm fans with higher static pressure fans might go a long way to solve the issue, because both issues (getting air into the heavily shrouded metal cage, getting air through the magnetic filter) could directly result from poor static pressure.

I also wondering if potentially reversing those fans so you have three exhaust fans might be more beneficial as well. In other words force all the air through the cage on ingress instead of trying to cool them by blowing on them from the side.
There are even designs for getting a shroud 3D printed at your local hackerspace, so yeah it's definitely an easy option.
The problem of a shroud can be solved two ways, but one leaves the option of more dust getting into the case as a mess that doesn't mess with static pressure is going to be big enough that dust can get in.

Given my storage server that I've been building and am almost done with, I've gotta find a solution for dealing with the high static pressure server fans in both the server and the 2x 15-bay SAS chassis with built-in SAS expander.
I'm hoping to eventually afford something like a SILENCE RACK from the German budgetIT.

D. Ebdrup fucked around with this message at 14:18 on May 21, 2020

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

I'm just a crazy man that bought one of these several weeks ago but I've mostly given up trying to fit 12+ drives into a dedicated NAS case with consumer oriented brands.

If you need 8 bays for home scenarios I'd just recommend a Fractal Design Node 804 and call it good. We don't need to swap hard drives out often enough that hot swap drive trays are a big deal to get. Heck, I'm doing more crazy man projects like hooking up a Thunderbolt NUC to an external Thunderbolt GPU slot with an HBA so I can access that HBA but when these are all things I have lying around it'd be potentially crazier not to try either.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


that or if you don't care about hotswap just get a Fractal Design 7 or 7XL, the former does 12 drives in a mid-ATX and the latter does up to 18 drives in a full-ATX tower.

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



The one big downside about Supermicros default caddys is that they aren't tool-less like the EMC KTN-STL3 and similar storage enterprise gear - it's such a pleasure putting drives in.
With SuperMicro you need to order special caddys.

D. Ebdrup fucked around with this message at 16:28 on May 21, 2020

Buff Hardback
Jun 11, 2019


Honestly it's a bit sad that the Rosewill cases got discontinued/forced discontinued by corona because for the price they were probably the most drives per dollar

Less Fat Luke
May 23, 2003

Just the tip!


Exciting Lemon

Paul MaudDib posted:

that or if you don't care about hotswap just get a Fractal Design 7 or 7XL, the former does 12 drives in a mid-ATX and the latter does up to 18 drives in a full-ATX tower.

One downside with the 7 and 7XL is that Fractal still hasn't started selling the type B disk trays for the case due to coronavirus shortages.

Minty Swagger
Sep 8, 2005

Ribbit Ribbit Real Good


Chuu posted:

Related to my posts above, but I found this thread dedicated to cases that have top-to-bottom 5.25" drives.

tl;dr -- there are none left in 2020

I owned this case back in the day, and while I cannot verify the legitimacy of this website i found, they do say it's in stock...

https://store.cwc-group.com/coststbl.html

That description is totally wrong too, it's literally 12 5.25 bays in a tower, that IO slot up top with USB etc can be removed or hidden inside, though it does have the power button...

EDIT: Nevermind! The Mobile site said it was in stock and looking at it here, its clearly not. :|

Minty Swagger fucked around with this message at 16:50 on May 21, 2020

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004



Grimey Drawer

Minty Swagger posted:

I owned this case back in the day, and while I cannot verify the legitimacy of this website i found, they do say it's in stock...

https://store.cwc-group.com/coststbl.html

That description is totally wrong too, it's literally 12 5.25 bays in a tower, that IO slot up top with USB etc can be removed or hidden inside, though it does have the power button...

Shows up as out-of-stock. Wonder if someone here sniped it.

Minty Swagger
Sep 8, 2005

Ribbit Ribbit Real Good


No sorry, the mobile site is just a liar. No local craigslist postings? I feel bad you're having such trouble because I literally gave my CM stacker case away to a thrift shop years ago because I had no desire to ship it and deal with all that.

EDIT: what about one of those supermicro 4U rackmount cases? Its not a tower but its at least going to get you close without buying a million 5.x25 to 3.5 adapters?

https://www.ebay.com/i/143579841379 <-- these types of things.

Minty Swagger fucked around with this message at 16:59 on May 21, 2020

kazmeyer
Jul 26, 2001

'Cause we're the good guys.



So what's the current guidance on the whole kapton-tape-over-the-connector issue with shucked drives? I seem to remember there were certain types of power supplies where you didn't have to monkey with that, and as I'm considering building a new machine this year it'd be really great if I could make a choice now that would skip that nonsense and get me cheap 12tb drives. (It's also because I'm a clumsy idiot and I know I would gently caress up something that fiddly and delicate.)

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

If you want to put the tap on preemptively, it won't hurt anything. AFAIK not putting the tape on preemptively also won't hurt anything: if you happen to have a PSU that the drives don't like, they'll just not show up properly when you boot, since power to the pin just tells the drive to sleep--it's not like it's trying to shove 12v down a 5v pin or frying stuff.

My understanding is that most modern PSUs are just fine.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Minty Swagger posted:

No sorry, the mobile site is just a liar. No local craigslist postings? I feel bad you're having such trouble because I literally gave my CM stacker case away to a thrift shop years ago because I had no desire to ship it and deal with all that.

EDIT: what about one of those supermicro 4U rackmount cases? Its not a tower but its at least going to get you close without buying a million 5.x25 to 3.5 adapters?

https://www.ebay.com/i/143579841379 <-- these types of things.

Yeah, if you have the noise tolerance for rackmount gear (>1U gear is usually a bit nicer in this regard anyway) then it's a way better value than trying to make poo poo work in desktop gear. That specific listing looks like it might be stuck with Supermicro-specific motherboards though, given the lack of an interchangeable I/O shield. You'll also want to make sure you don't somehow stumble across something old enough that it's actually SCSI hotswap instead of SATA or SAS.

Or just dive all the way in the deep end and get a used Netapp. DS4243 / DS4246 for 24x SATA or SAS drives, DS4486 if you're a madman who wants 48x SATA drives in 4U (with the caveat that you can't ever just remove a single drive, so you'd probably still need to power off for drive swaps)

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

ああ!彼からのメールだ!

College Slice

Hello, I'm back for more advice! I need a UPS that can turn off my Synology DS1819+. The compatibility list page is a mess and I'm not spending $500 on some rackmount nonsense. APC's site is also a mess and doesn't signal well what features their various UPSes have. On the product page for the BE850M2 it says that it comes with a USB cable, has a low res picture of back of the unit, and then has this helpful little snippet in the specs:

quote:

USB connectivity
Provides management of the UPS via a USB port (not available on all models).

Thanks, APC! The user manual says that it works with Windows and Mac, but I thought that all of this stuff was standardized?

Anyways, can anyone point me in something resembling the right direction for a UPS?

kazmeyer posted:

So what's the current guidance on the whole kapton-tape-over-the-connector issue with shucked drives? I seem to remember there were certain types of power supplies where you didn't have to monkey with that, and as I'm considering building a new machine this year it'd be really great if I could make a choice now that would skip that nonsense and get me cheap 12tb drives. (It's also because I'm a clumsy idiot and I know I would gently caress up something that fiddly and delicate.)

If you have a power supply from at least 2012, it won't be an issue. (probably)

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


https://networkupstools.org/

kazmeyer
Jul 26, 2001

'Cause we're the good guys.



DrDork posted:

If you want to put the tap on preemptively, it won't hurt anything. AFAIK not putting the tape on preemptively also won't hurt anything: if you happen to have a PSU that the drives don't like, they'll just not show up properly when you boot, since power to the pin just tells the drive to sleep--it's not like it's trying to shove 12v down a 5v pin or frying stuff.

My understanding is that most modern PSUs are just fine.

Rock and roll. Thanks.

(I started building PCs in the 1980s, so even now I'm super paranoid about connecting poo poo up wrong and watching it go boom. I have to constantly remind myself modern stuff has way more in terms of failsafes and hand-holding than it used to. The first time I saw an alignment tab on a ribbon IDE cable it blew my loving mind.)

Duck and Cover
Apr 6, 2007


I'm thinking of upgrading from my 5 bay. Do you think 60 bays is enough? https://www.45drives.com/products/s...figurations.php

Tamba
Apr 5, 2010



One of the disks in my ZFS array seems to be on its way out.
Is there anything I can do to prepare for replacing it while it is still readable, or should I just pretend it has failed already and do the usual steps to replace a failed disk?

Zorak of Michigan
Jun 10, 2006

Waiting for his chance

Duck and Cover posted:

I'm thinking of upgrading from my 5 bay. Do you think 60 bays is enough? https://www.45drives.com/products/s...figurations.php

Noise level: unsuited to use outside uninhabited soundproofed rooms.

Edit: but to answer the question, I mean, it's enough for right now, but I can't commit to 2021.

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



Tamba posted:

One of the disks in my ZFS array seems to be on its way out.
Is there anything I can do to prepare for replacing it while it is still readable, or should I just pretend it has failed already and do the usual steps to replace a failed disk?
Well, if you're not already charting the S.M.A.R.T values, you should do that.
It's irrelevant to the disk failing, but it's the way to find out when future disks start failing.

If there's room, you can add the new disk as a spare so if it fails it'll instantly be replaced, provided you're using whole disks.
One thing I hope that'll come from the OpenZFS unification is that zfsd (or a rewrite in C, rust, or something else and not its ZoL-equivalent called zed) is a daemon that can handle spares with partitions (ie. using the relevant tools partitioning tools to create a zfs disk with the needed partitions on a spare, then activate the zfs partition).

Duck and Cover
Apr 6, 2007


Zorak of Michigan posted:

Noise level: unsuited to use outside uninhabited soundproofed rooms.

Edit: but to answer the question, I mean, it's enough for right now, but I can't commit to 2021.

I'm really looking for just 12 without dealing with a huge rack mounted system but my choices are kind of limited. Probably going to end up with the 12 bay Synology desktop thingy or the Qnap 16 bay one. I figure the longer I wait the better my options will be though so I'm not in a rush.

Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 19:39 on May 21, 2020

Smashing Link
Jul 8, 2003

I'll keep chucking bombs at you til you fall off that ledge!

Grimey Drawer

Paul MaudDib posted:

that or if you don't care about hotswap just get a Fractal Design 7 or 7XL, the former does 12 drives in a mid-ATX and the latter does up to 18 drives in a full-ATX tower.

If I were buying now I would get the 7XL, for sure.

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



Duck and Cover posted:

I'm thinking of upgrading from my 5 bay. Do you think 60 bays is enough? https://www.45drives.com/products/s...figurations.php
Psch, only 60 bays.
On top of it, it suffers from the same problem that one of the 90-bay ones that SuperMicro make has: You have to move all disks perpendicular to their rotation based on precession of a gyroscopic force, meaning each time you move the server on the rails to pull a disk, all the other disks suffer a rotational shock.

Luckily, there's a solution!
As a bonus, you can fit 11 of them in a full-sized rack, so with this chassis for the motherboard and 6 SAS3 HBAs, you can get 1026 disks in a single rack.

EDIT: So with a bit of head math and assuming you can source those 16TB disks that're supposed to be on the market if you've got more money than sense, that's 10.4416PB per rack of usable storage with 57 18-disk RAIDz3 vdevs consisting of 14TB drives each.

D. Ebdrup fucked around with this message at 20:59 on May 21, 2020

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

ああ!彼からのメールだ!

College Slice


Should I bother with one of these? https://www.amazon.com/APC-Battery-...1/dp/B005GZRUZW

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

I'd go up to something with more battery capacity, that's good for like 10 minutes on an office PC, but if you start shutdown right away it should work.

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

ああ!彼からのメールだ!

College Slice

Since I'm not serving up anything via Plex or have any background services going (now, at least), my plan is to set it up to just safety wind down everything ASAP.

e: the other option i was looking at was one of these but not use any of the apc cloud nonsense https://www.amazon.com/APC-SmartCon...=dp_ob_title_ce
e2: like i said, i have zero idea what im doing

Phone fucked around with this message at 00:19 on May 22, 2020

Minty Swagger
Sep 8, 2005

Ribbit Ribbit Real Good


I did this recently, I wanted my UPS which powers my server and internet things (router modem etc) to also be able to turn off my desktop and server in another room and some other things.

I ended up installing NUT (https://networkupstools.org/) onto a Raspberry Pi I had laying around, connected the UPS to THAT, and then now I can install NUT clients on all my devices, like the Server and the desktop because the Pi is connected to the same LAN.

That way you get the NUT server dealing with the nonsense of whatever APC or Cyberpower UPS jargon/code it spits over usb, and then it translates it to your server or to others.
In your case if they're next to each other just buy an APC or whatever backup that is compatible with NUT (check their wiki/google) and then run whatever NUT server docker or plugin is available on your device. On unraid its a plugin, I'm sure its similar on a synology.

Your DS1819+ PSU tops out at 250W and shouldnt really be running anywhere near that, so if its just the UPS, you could go near that in terms of power or higher. Higher would make sure it stays online longer but with NUT you could also just tell the server to turn off when the UPS is at 30% charge left or whatever.

Keep an eye on slickdeals, staples has been running promos that UPS devices qualify for so you can get some good deals on backups.
For example if I was in your shoes, considering the UPS idles at like 20-60watts at most times I'd get something like this and just make sure my server knows to go to sleep when the life drops to 50%. That covers if your power is out for more than a few minutes and at that point you probably dont need your server on anymore because you arent gonna be on your pc/tv for much longer anyways.
https://slickdeals.net/f/14043419-s...&src=SiteSearch
I'm not saying get that exact model, but for your purposes you dont need much if LITERALLY the only thing on it is going to be your Synology.

Stanley Tucheetos
May 15, 2012



Grimey Drawer

I've been using the 7xl lately and it is extremely nice. The only problem with it is having a mess of cables that makes it a pain to add or replace drives.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


Stanley Tucheetos posted:

I've been using the 7xl lately and it is extremely nice. The only problem with it is having a mess of cables that makes it a pain to add or replace drives.

are you using Molex-to-5x-SATA adapters and SFF-8088-to-4x-SATA octopus adapters to help simplify that as much as possible?

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012



I *think* I have that one. It at least looks the same. It works fine with unraid. My battery is 4 years old and it is giving me a life estimate of 30 min for my headless Unraid system, router, and modem. If I add my desktop, that estimate shoots down to 4 minutes.

Stanley Tucheetos
May 15, 2012



Grimey Drawer

Paul MaudDib posted:

are you using Molex-to-5x-SATA adapters and SFF-8088-to-4x-SATA octopus adapters to help simplify that as much as possible?

I should clarify that I'm just in general terrible with cable management. It's probably just a me thing. If I only used single sata connectors I'd probably go insane.

Enos Cabell
Nov 3, 2004



Paul MaudDib posted:

Molex-to-5x-SATA adapters

Is there a thread recommended brand for these? My drive count is at the point where I'm going to need to start using them soon, but I worry about blowing up my drives with poorly made splitters.

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004



Grimey Drawer

Enos Cabell posted:

Is there a thread recommended brand for these? My drive count is at the point where I'm going to need to start using them soon, but I worry about blowing up my drives with poorly made splitters.

StarTech is expensive but part of what you're paying for is guaranteed quality. They have this which you can combine with this. Might not even need the moxel adapter, or use one you trust (i.e. crimped, not just integral to the plastic mold).

Just throwing it out there if no better solution comes up.

Chuu fucked around with this message at 16:25 on May 22, 2020

Less Fat Luke
May 23, 2003

Just the tip!


Exciting Lemon

Yeah you really want quality power splitters, I've been using StarTech ones for like a decade with no issue.

Enos Cabell
Nov 3, 2004



Excellent, thanks!

GnarlyCharlie4u
Sep 23, 2007

I have an unhealthy obsession with motorcycles.

Proof


I've got a rack of HP 633982-002 which are Seagate 1tb 7200rpm drives like this; https://www.ebay.com/c/109447706
How bad of an idea is it to cram a bunch of these into a freenas or unraid installation?
I mean they're not NAS drives but I'm not looking for the highest levels of performance and I won't be writing to them constantly, just for network file availability so I can dump all my music somewhere that's easily accessible until I have a proper NAS built. Longevity isn't a concern either as I have a boatload of them, so replacing them won't be a problem.

Are they going to be painfully slow or cause problems? I don't plan on using them with a hardware raid controller so compatibility shouldn't be an issue.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





If you aren't limited on drive bays / physical space, and you can hit the drive redundancy / capacity you need, go for it. They'll be somewhat slower than higher capacity drives but not enough to notice for your purposes.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

I have encountered the issue with startec molex 4 pin connectors getting the male pins pushed out of the plastic bit by misaligned pins on the PSU molex connectors, so look out for that. They can be pushed back in and usually the retention clips weren’t fully engaged which caused the problem. The molex male pin connectors have a lot of slop in them usually.

Still the best option though.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«602 »