NAS/Storage Megathread: What is this "File Deletion" You Speak of

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > NAS/Storage Megathread: What is this "File Deletion" You Speak of

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Alystair: Oct 11, 2005; Remain calm, we are in control.

Has anyone here heard of FlexRAID? The guy who is developing it is active on the [H]ardForums, I sent him a gift certificate to join us... but he hasn't budged yet. Might as well talk about it here for the time being.

Check out the details here, it has a killer feature set so far:
http://www.openegg.org/FlexRAID.curi

I don't have a test system running yet, sadly. Anyone else want to give it a go?

# ? May 26, 2008 09:32

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# ? Apr 18, 2024 04:52

Syano: Jul 13, 2005

Evilkiksass posted:

Partition each drive into 2 and then stripe across 2 disks and then mirror that across to the other halfs. Basically it is useless.

Useless in the form of performance or useless for fault tolerance?

# ? May 26, 2008 14:17

IOwnCalculus: Apr 2, 2003

Syano posted:

Useless in the form of performance or useless for fault tolerance?

Useless for fault tolerance. For any type of failure that renders the drive unreadable from start to finish, this may as well be RAID0.

It will probably also kick performance in the balls since you're writing twice to each drive for one block of data.

# ? May 26, 2008 14:48

Shit Copter: Oct 13, 2004; what a P.O.S.

Help! I'm having problems creating my LVM virtual device. Any ideas? I'm not sure what other info would help.

code:

root@spice:/home/justin# lvcreate -l 44712 raid -n lvm0
File descriptor 3 left open
File descriptor 4 left open
File descriptor 5 left open
File descriptor 7 left open
  /proc/misc: No entry for device-mapper found
  Is device-mapper driver missing from kernel?
  Failure to communicate with kernel device-mapper driver.
  /proc/misc: No entry for device-mapper found
  Is device-mapper driver missing from kernel?
  Failure to communicate with kernel device-mapper driver.
  Incompatible libdevmapper 1.02.20 (2007-06-15)(compat) and kernel driver 
  striped: Required device-mapper target(s) not detected in your kernel
  lvcreate: Create a logical volume

lvcreate 
        [-A|--autobackup {y|n}]
        [--addtag Tag]
        [--alloc AllocationPolicy]
        [-C|--contiguous {y|n}]
        [-d|--debug]
        [-h|-?|--help]
        [-i|--stripes Stripes [-I|--stripesize StripeSize]]
        {-l|--extents LogicalExtentsNumber |
         -L|--size LogicalVolumeSize[kKmMgGtTpPeE]}
        [-M|--persistent {y|n}] [--major major] [--minor minor]
        [-m|--mirrors Mirrors [--nosync] [--corelog]]
        [-n|--name LogicalVolumeName]
        [-p|--permission {r|rw}]
        [-r|--readahead ReadAheadSectors]
        [-R|--regionsize MirrorLogRegionSize]
        [-t|--test]
        [--type VolumeType]
        [-v|--verbose]
        [-Z|--zero {y|n}]
        [--version]
        VolumeGroupName [PhysicalVolumePath...]

lvcreate -s|--snapshot
        [-c|--chunksize]
        [-A|--autobackup {y|n}]
        [--addtag Tag]
        [--alloc AllocationPolicy]
        [-C|--contiguous {y|n}]
        [-d|--debug]
        [-h|-?|--help]
        [-i|--stripes Stripes [-I|--stripesize StripeSize]]
        {-l|--extents LogicalExtentsNumber[%{VG|LV|FREE}] |
         -L|--size LogicalVolumeSize[kKmMgGtTpPeE]}
        [-M|--persistent {y|n}] [--major major] [--minor minor]
        [-n|--name LogicalVolumeName]
        [-p|--permission {r|rw}]
        [-r|--readahead ReadAheadSectors]
        [-t|--test]
        [-v|--verbose]
        [--version]
        OriginalLogicalVolume[Path] [PhysicalVolumePath...]


root@spice:/home/justin#

# ? May 27, 2008 02:35

napking: Aug 31, 2003

my opensolaris b81 install was becoming unstable and then i couldn't logon to it at all this weekend. i booted into the failsafe and saw my zfs pools were still intact so that was a good sign.

i installed 2008.05 on top of the b81 and it's been great so far the past few days. zfs root is awesome!

# ? May 27, 2008 03:33

Alowishus: Jan 8, 2002; My name is Mud

poo poo Copter posted:

Help! I'm having problems creating my LVM virtual device. Any ideas?

Try 'modprobe dm-mod' - looks like the necessary device mapper kernel stuff isn't loading.

# ? May 27, 2008 03:37

Shit Copter: Oct 13, 2004; what a P.O.S.

Edit: I figured it out, thanks.

Edit2: Still getting this:

code:

root@spice:/sbin# lvcreate -l 44712 raid -n lvm0
File descriptor 3 left open
File descriptor 4 left open
File descriptor 5 left open
File descriptor 6 left open
  Logical volume "lvm0" created

root@spice:/sbin# lvdisplay /dev/raid/lvm0
File descriptor 3 left open
File descriptor 4 left open
File descriptor 5 left open
File descriptor 6 left open
  --- Logical volume ---
  LV Name                /dev/raid/lvm0
  VG Name                raid
  LV UUID                3DCAxo-202D-EMBN-4NRm-m7ez-SOa9-GZSrbq
  LV Write Access        read/write
  LV Status              available
  # open                 0
  LV Size                2.73 TB
  Current LE             44712
  Segments               1
  Allocation             inherit
  Read ahead sectors     0
  Block device           253:0

Shit Copter fucked around with this message at 04:02 on May 27, 2008

# ? May 27, 2008 03:45

Alowishus: Jan 8, 2002; My name is Mud

I assume you're referring to the "File descriptor X left open" errors... those don't look right... but can you mkfs on the new LV? What version of Linux are you working with here?

# ? May 27, 2008 05:01

Shit Copter: Oct 13, 2004; what a P.O.S.

Alowishus posted:

I assume you're referring to the "File descriptor X left open" errors... those don't look right... but can you mkfs on the new LV? What version of Linux are you working with here?

Well, that and "# open 0". I'm on Ubuntu 8.04 server. Haven't tried mkfs yet because of those errors. I'll try it in the morning.

Shit Copter fucked around with this message at 05:29 on May 27, 2008

# ? May 27, 2008 05:25

Combat Pretzel: Jun 23, 2004; No, seriously... what kurds?!

napking posted:

i installed 2008.05 on top of the b81 and it's been great so far the past few days. zfs root is awesome!

Apparently they're going to add the b89 packages somewhen in the rest of this week (2008.05 is b86, the b89 packages include Gnome 2.22). Be prepared to witness the awesomeness that's pkg image-update and boot environments. Gotta love having pkg use ZFS to create a clone of the current system and update the clone, so it doesn't interfere at all with you and your work.

# ? May 27, 2008 11:17

Farmer Crack-Ass: Jan 2, 2001; this is me posting irl

kalibar posted:

I have a bunch of dumb questions.

I have an Antec case with four 3.5" bays, and I just bought four Samsung Spinpoint F1 750GB drives in hopes of doing a RAID-5 array. The trouble is that I want to run my OS off of something that isn't part of the array, and since I'm out of drive slots, I need to get creative. I'm using an old ASRock motherboard and an Athlon64 3400+ as the guts for this experiment, and I have a PCI slot to burn. Should I be looking at a PCI eSATA card and an external drive? (If so, any Newegg recommendations?) Or is there a better way to get a small OS drive in there? I wouldn't be opposed to some kind of CompactFlash or similar solution, I just don't really know what I should be looking at. I guess I could do a USB 2.0 external drive, but that poo poo would probably be pretty slow for my OS, right?

I'm guessing your case probably has some 5.25" bays available. Get a 3.5"->5.25" adapter plate and stick your OS drive in one of those 5.25" bays.

quote:

Also, I want to go hardware RAID for my RAID-5 setup. I need a PCI SATA card, too. Is there a good PCI card that does RAID-5 and also has 4+ SATA slots on it? I am crossing my fingers that something like this exists.

Good cards are going to be over $300 and probably be either PCI-X or PCI-Express. If the card ever dies you'll need to get a replacement card of the same kind in order to get at the array. If you ever decide you want a larger array, or a second array, you'll have to buy a whole new card.

I recommend software RAID... but if you're hell-bent on hardware RAID, I've heard good things about 3ware cards.

quote:

Next up, what kind of power supply should I be looking at? I want it to be as small/efficient as possible for four harddrives and my CPU, because I'm going to leave this machine running 24/7.

Looks like Newegg's got a great deal on this Corsair power supply.

quote:

Lastly, (and I feel dumb asking this), but my drives were "bulk" and conveniently shipped without SATA cables or power connectors. Can I buy a cheap 4-pack of these somewhere or what?

Check out PCH Cables, they've got pretty good prices on some SATA cables. If you get the Corsair PSU I linked to, it'll come with 6 SATA power connectors, and that will be plenty for you.

# ? May 27, 2008 17:06

CrazyLittle: Sep 11, 2001; Clapping Larry

Where can I find a chassis that will hold 16-24 SATA drives?

# ? May 27, 2008 19:52

Justice Caterson: Oct 4, 2003; Fiat Justitia

CrazyLittle posted:

Where can I find a chassis that will hold 16-24 SATA drives?

This one has twelve 3.5" bays plus seven 5.25" bays. Would that work?

Justice Caterson fucked around with this message at 20:13 on May 27, 2008

# ? May 27, 2008 20:04

CrazyLittle: Sep 11, 2001; Clapping Larry

JavaFox posted:

This one has twelve 3.5" bays plus seven 5.25" bays. Would that work?

Ideally with this many drives I would want them all in hot-swap cages since turning off a server that large seems like a silly idea. It should either be 16-24 individual SATA trays, or enough space to fit three or four SATA backplanes. Extra bonus points if it's rackmount.

*edit* hhahahahha loving sweet... If I had $6000 I could pull together 20TB of raid6 storage with that Lian-Li case.

CrazyLittle fucked around with this message at 20:34 on May 27, 2008

# ? May 27, 2008 20:30

Cidrick: Jun 10, 2001; Praise the siamese

CrazyLittle posted:

Ideally with this many drives I would want them all in hot-swap cages since turning off a server that large seems like a silly idea. It should either be 16-24 individual SATA trays, or enough space to fit three or four SATA backplanes. Extra bonus points if it's rackmount.

http://www.supermicro.com/products/chassis/3U/836/SC836TQ-R710.cfm ?

Or, this motherfucker holds 24:

http://www.supermicro.com/products/chassis/4U/846/SC846TQ-R900.cfm

Edit: I'm seriously lollin' at the slim optical drive on the rear of that second one. Oh man.

Cidrick fucked around with this message at 20:45 on May 27, 2008

# ? May 27, 2008 20:43

napking: Aug 31, 2003

Toiletbrush posted:

Apparently they're going to add the b89 packages somewhen in the rest of this week (2008.05 is b86, the b89 packages include Gnome 2.22). Be prepared to witness the awesomeness that's pkg image-update and boot environments. Gotta love having pkg use ZFS to create a clone of the current system and update the clone, so it doesn't interfere at all with you and your work.

so far it's been great. i've got rtorrent+screen up and running and i'll try to get one of the webui plugins going later this week.

do you know if the current version of zfs lets me change a mirrored two disk pool into a raidz pool by adding a third disk? i'd really like to expand this pool without going through hoops.

# ? May 28, 2008 03:36

MrMoo: Sep 14, 2000

Cidrick posted:

Or, this motherfucker holds 24:

http://www.supermicro.com/products/chassis/4U/846/SC846TQ-R900.cfm

That's pretty clever, 24 bays often ships in 5u:

http://usa.chenbro.com/corporatesite/products_cat.php?pos=14.

Haven't seen an equivalent of the Thumper case yet though.

# ? May 28, 2008 03:53

CrazyLittle: Sep 11, 2001; Clapping Larry

MrMoo posted:

That's pretty clever, 24 bays often ships in 5u:

http://usa.chenbro.com/corporatesite/products_cat.php?pos=14.

Haven't seen an equivalent of the Thumper case yet though.

God that thing is awesome. Somebody give me $65k so I can get one of these.

# ? May 28, 2008 04:22

HPL: Aug 28, 2002; Worst case scenario.

Good lord, that thing must start glowing from all the heat when all the hard drives are going at once.

# ? May 28, 2008 05:57

H110Hawk: Dec 28, 2006

HPL posted:

Good lord, that thing must start glowing from all the heat when all the hard drives are going at once.

They're not so bad. The two rows of fans in the front prevent that. They things sound like freaking turbines when they power up.

Xyratex makes one as well, the 48-in-5u is a pretty common form factor now.

The real bitch is racking them without bending the rails.

# ? May 28, 2008 08:04

MrMoo: Sep 14, 2000

H110Hawk posted:

Xyratex makes one as well, the 48-in-5u is a pretty common form factor now.

I'd hardly call the top-end-only models of a few companies common, side-note: Xyratex website is rear end, the size appears to be 48/4u like the x4500.

(edit) Neither NetApp or EMC appear to have any top loading chassis models.

MrMoo fucked around with this message at 08:45 on May 28, 2008

# ? May 28, 2008 08:42

IOwnCalculus: Apr 2, 2003

H110Hawk posted:

The real bitch is racking them without bending the rails.

Between this and the power requirements I'd guess it has...yeah, that's one big loving box.

# ? May 28, 2008 14:59

Combat Pretzel: Jun 23, 2004; No, seriously... what kurds?!

napking posted:

do you know if the current version of zfs lets me change a mirrored two disk pool into a raidz pool by adding a third disk? i'd really like to expand this pool without going through hoops.

ZFS doesn't do single disk expansions. It's targetting the enterprise, where whole arrays are added (doing single disk expansions gets you laughed out of the IT office). Your only option is to back up your stuff, kill the pool and create the RAID-Z vdev from the devices.

Adding the ability to expand existing RAID-Z arrays is slowly being considered. At least the logistics of this are already being discussed.

# ? May 28, 2008 22:37

H110Hawk: Dec 28, 2006

MrMoo posted:

I'd hardly call the top-end-only models of a few companies common, side-note: Xyratex website is rear end, the size appears to be 48/4u like the x4500.

(edit) Neither NetApp or EMC appear to have any top loading chassis models.

They aren't the top-end models, though. They're some of the lowest around. Sun considers the X4500 a "server" not a "storage" device. Xyratex is only looking at the reseller market. They don't care to sell to you or I. Netapp buys most (all?) of their disk trays from Xyratex, I believe OnStor sells the 48-in-4u ones. It's only a matter of time before supermicro comes out with a chassis + board that can do it, or until NetApp certifies and badges the Xyratex one.

IOwnCalculus posted:

Between this and the power requirements I'd guess it has...yeah, that's one big loving box.

Yup! 3 of them fit in a 30Amp@110v circuit.

# ? May 29, 2008 00:30

HPL: Aug 28, 2002; Worst case scenario.

Good lord, the DNS-323 is down to $140 this week at NCIX.com. They've got a bunch of specials on 1TB drives too.

# ? May 29, 2008 07:06

Shit Copter: Oct 13, 2004; what a P.O.S.

Edit: figured it out.

Shit Copter fucked around with this message at 05:45 on May 30, 2008

# ? May 30, 2008 03:26

napking: Aug 31, 2003

poo poo Copter posted:

I'm having trouble enabling CIFS on my zpool.

is this opensolaris 2008.05? the iso didn't ship with the cifs server. you'll need to use the ips to pull it down.

http://www.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/Getting_Started_With_the_Solaris_CIFS_Service

code:

# pkg install SUNWsmbs
# pkg install SUNWsmbskr

and then a restart worked for me before svcs smb/server showed up.

# ? May 30, 2008 04:45

Shit Copter: Oct 13, 2004; what a P.O.S.

I had installed those packages, but hadn't tried rebooting...

Thanks

# ? May 30, 2008 05:05

napking: Aug 31, 2003

poo poo Copter posted:

I had installed those packages, but hadn't tried rebooting...

Thanks

yeah i was totally confused too when smb/server wasn't showing up after installing those packages because i assumed that the installer would register and start those services automatically. oh well. glad i could help.

# ? May 31, 2008 01:58

Combat Pretzel: Jun 23, 2004; No, seriously... what kurds?!

I remember there being a command to do this, because I've read about installing CIFS on the OpenSolaris forums and executing it, but I fail at digging it up again.

# ? May 31, 2008 11:53

Dobermaniac: Jun 10, 2004

I'm trying to make a small nas for my home that I will be upgrading later on down the road. I have a 160gb and 120gb drive right now that I'm going to use, however, I will take those out and add in 2 750s in 2 months or so. My hardware is Via Vb7001 motherboard(1.5ghz C7-D processor and 1gb ram). I also have a 2gb flash drive that it can boot off. What OS should I run for making this computer a nas? I'd rather just have a web interface to configure the drives.

I've looked at unRaid and freenas. unRaid won't boot and freenas seems to halt right after booting. I know the hardware is good as this computer has run clarkconnect, ubuntu, and windows xp. I wish there was a trial of NasLite-usb, but I can't find one anywhere. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks.

# ? May 31, 2008 20:00

ior: Nov 21, 2003; What's a fuckass?

Just chiming in to mention my newly built NAS. I based it on a Chenbro ES34069 and a Via Mini-ITX mobo. Some key features on this mobo is the four SATA-II slots, gigabit ethernet port and console redirection feature. I have just got it up and running with a 2.5" disk for my OS and 4 x 1TB drives in a software RAID5 setup running debian linux. So far so good, everything looks nice and happy, the array is syncing itself as we speak.

code:

leda:~# df -h
Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/hda1             145G  880M  137G   1% /
tmpfs                 443M     0  443M   0% /lib/init/rw
udev                   10M  112K  9.9M   2% /dev
tmpfs                 443M     0  443M   0% /dev/shm
/dev/mapper/vgr5-lvr5
                      2.8T  5.0G  2.6T   1% /mnt/storage
leda:~$ cat /proc/mdstat
Personalities : [raid6] [raid5] [raid4]
md0 : active raid5 sdd1[0] sda1[3] sdc1[2] sdb1[1]
      2930279808 blocks level 5, 64k chunk, algorithm 2 [4/4] [UUUU]
      [=====>...............]  resync = 28.7% (280680320/976759936) finish=395.1min speed=29354K/sec

unused devices: <none>

ior fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jun 4, 2008

# ? Jun 4, 2008 00:33

Cheesus: Oct 17, 2002; Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.; Yam Slacker

Thanks for the DNS-323 recommendation. It's all sorts of amazing ranging from the ease of setup to the ease of customization. If it wasn't for the hacking to get NFS to work I would have been backing up within 20 minutes of opening it.

# ? Jun 4, 2008 14:45

lilbean: Oct 2, 2003

ior posted:

Holy poo poo that's a nice case. I'm going to try to track one of them down in Toronto and replace my current (also Debian) system with it.

# ? Jun 4, 2008 15:33

Dobermaniac: Jun 10, 2004

Well I ended up going with NASLite. There wasn't any trial so I just had to purchase it($29us). Turns out that it is almost utter crap. Most of the time after enabling and formatting a drive, after you restart to actually start using the disk, it doesn't recognize that the disk is enabled and formatted so it just ignores it.

Everything must be done through a telnet interface. It has a really nice web interface but you can't change ANY settings through it. You can only view the status ( disk temp, proc usage, disk usage, network settings). I couldn't even find an option to set the network to DHCP. I wish there would have been a trial so I didn't waste the 30 bucks. I'm probably going to move my system over to freenas asuming I can get it working with my VIA VB7001G motherboard.

# ? Jun 4, 2008 18:57

Col. Mustard: Nov 26, 2000; Initech Administrator

Good to know that about NASLite. I was about to drop the $30. Will try FreeNAS first.

Hope I can RAID1 together 2 external USB drives.

# ? Jun 4, 2008 19:55

Dobermaniac: Jun 10, 2004

I'm using FreeNAS at work and as long as your hardware is supported, it seems to be a great system. Much, much easier to use than naslite. You can also configure it using web interface.

# ? Jun 4, 2008 20:20

Syano: Jul 13, 2005

I think this thread is appropriate for this question. We pulled the trigger on a new EMC Clariion SAN. Can someone reccomend me a good gigabit switch that will support maximum throughput on the iSCSI connections?

# ? Jun 6, 2008 02:12

Gorfob: Feb 10, 2007

I'm looking to build a NAS type server for my up coming HTPC project. I'm building the storage end now as it can be used for other things while I get the front end organised.

I'm looking to build it around 1 OS disk and three storage discs in a Sata backplane with removable trays. I'm by no means brilliant but I have some basic Linux knowledge and am willing to dive in head first.

I want to yank a disk, whack a new one in and have it formatted and added to my storage and not lose anything. Preferably while hot (hot swap is not a huge necessity)
Network accessibility for the whole storage volume so Windows Media Center can see it and play nice with it.
Tolerate the failure of a hard drive.

From what I have read unRAID might be a go'er any other suggestions?

Gorfob fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Jun 6, 2008

# ? Jun 6, 2008 09:27

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# ? Apr 18, 2024 04:52

macx: Feb 3, 2005

Syano posted:

I think this thread is appropriate for this question. We pulled the trigger on a new EMC Clariion SAN. Can someone reccomend me a good gigabit switch that will support maximum throughput on the iSCSI connections?

If you're looking for price, HP Procurve's are a fraction of Cisco and has been sneaking steadily in to network cores all around, but those two are probably your biggest players.

# ? Jun 6, 2008 14:01

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > NAS/Storage Megathread: What is this "File Deletion" You Speak of

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