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Buff Hardback
Jun 11, 2019


Henrik Zetterberg posted:

Yeah, last time I added a drive it needed to stop the array. Had no idea until this week. But I did kind of want the stress test to compare SMART reports.

I take it it's been quite a while since you added a new drive?

That was fixed in like 6.5 i think

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Henrik Zetterberg
Dec 7, 2007




Buff Hardback posted:

I take it it's been quite a while since you added a new drive?

That was fixed in like 6.5 i think

Yup, at least 5 years.

Gay Retard
Jun 7, 2003



I added an additional 12 TB drive to my Unraid as parity recently and it didn't even take a week to copy over ~10 TB of data onto it.

Boner Wad
Nov 16, 2003


I'm looking at building out a NAS for a two ESX hosts with 10-15 VMs on each and a Plex server that'll run on one of the VMs. Would a Synology DS1019+ work for what I'm looking at or should I be looking at something else? I'd probably put 2x10TB IronWolf NAS drives in it. I have heard I should wait and run the cache advisor and then maybe get some SSDs for caching.

I actually like building my own stuff, so should I just build out my own NAS with a physically smaller machine and a SAS card (like this?

I already run FreeNAS in a VM with drives passed to it but that seems more like a janky setup lately. I'm also not happy with the throughput.

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Gimme Gimme Swedish Fish...



Fallen Rib

Gay Retard posted:

I added an additional 12 TB drive to my Unraid as parity recently and it didn't even take a week to copy over ~10 TB of data onto it.

I'm pushing a 9TB snapshot to a USB3 12TB External drive, and that only takes about 3.5 days. 35MB/s, give or take.

Boner Wad posted:

I'm looking at building out a NAS for a two ESX hosts with 10-15 VMs on each and a Plex server that'll run on one of the VMs. Would a Synology DS1019+ work for what I'm looking at or should I be looking at something else? I'd probably put 2x10TB IronWolf NAS drives in it. I have heard I should wait and run the cache advisor and then maybe get some SSDs for caching.

I actually like building my own stuff, so should I just build out my own NAS with a physically smaller machine and a SAS card (like this?

I already run FreeNAS in a VM with drives passed to it but that seems more like a janky setup lately. I'm also not happy with the throughput.
I'd build your own. And run FreeNAS natively, rather than in a VM.
That's double the standard price for a 9211. They're dirt cheap these days, about $25-$35 on eBay. Search "M1015" and you'll find a pile for sale. Flash it to IT mode. Pass that to FreeNAS, easy peasy.

sharkytm fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Aug 1, 2020

Boner Wad
Nov 16, 2003


sharkytm posted:

I'd build your own. And run FreeNAS natively, rather than in a VM.
That's double the standard price for a 9211. They're dirt cheap these days, about $25-$35 on eBay. Search "M1015" and you'll find a pile for sale. Flash it to IT mode. Pass that to FreeNAS, easy peasy.

What do you suggest for "host" systems?

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Gimme Gimme Swedish Fish...



Fallen Rib

For that VM load? Something with some actual processing power: e3-xxxx V2 or newer, 64gb+ of ECC, and probably some SSDs for the VM's unless they're just running little stuff. List what you're running, and people can weigh in.

Boner Wad
Nov 16, 2003


sharkytm posted:

For that VM load? Something with some actual processing power: e3-xxxx V2 or newer, 64gb+ of ECC, and probably some SSDs for the VM's unless they're just running little stuff. List what you're running, and people can weigh in.

VM wise not much, just usual homelab stuff. Unifi, elasticsearch cluster, kibana, dns/dhcp, log collector, vcenter, docker container, homeassisstant, plex, torrent/nzb grabbing stuff.

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Gimme Gimme Swedish Fish...



Fallen Rib

Boner Wad posted:

VM wise not much, just usual homelab stuff. Unifi, elasticsearch cluster, kibana, dns/dhcp, log collector, vcenter, docker container, homeassisstant, plex, torrent/nzb grabbing stuff.

You should just run most of those in docker (or so I'm told). My Unifi runs in a jail, as does Plex, Transmission, and at one time, CrashPlan.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

If Godzilla can do it, you know I can deliver!

Pillbug

sharkytm posted:

You should just run most of those in docker (or so I'm told). My Unifi runs in a jail, as does Plex, Transmission, and at one time, CrashPlan.

Where's the fun in that.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





sharkytm posted:

You should just run most of those in docker (or so I'm told). My Unifi runs in a jail, as does Plex, Transmission, and at one time, CrashPlan.

This, a thousand times

Manually installing and configuring and updating software packages and super get hosed forever

Had to install postgres on an esoteric Linux distro recently, install wasn't setting up a systemctl service file, was putting postgres in a weird non obvious location etc etc. Installed docker (podman) and was up and running in 5 minutes. Most of that was navigating to docker hubs postgres page and deciding if I wanted to go newer than pg10, and how new

Not going to get into opinions but podman is RedHats compatible implementation of docker

Anything worth running in 2020 will run in a container just fine

Jails are cool too but I haven't touched non osx bsd in at least a decade

Red_Fred
Oct 21, 2010



Fallen Rib

I moved house last weekend. I forgot to properly power down my Synology DS218+ and when I hooked it up at the new place it wasn't happy. I've followed the steps outlined and it looks like my drive is failing (I never got around to buying new drives when I got it anyway). The extended drive test shows it is failing. What's the recommendations for RAID type and current thread favourite drives to get?

Can I backup my config when I move to new drives? I've got Unifi, Survalience Station etc. all running off this.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





Synology phone support is pretty awesome, impressive, even, give them a ring some time. The number just puts you on the phone with a human, I don't think there's even a phone tree you need to navigate

Takes No Damage
Nov 20, 2004

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.




Grimey Drawer

Red_Fred posted:

I moved house last weekend. I forgot to properly power down my Synology DS218+ and when I hooked it up at the new place it wasn't happy. I've followed the steps outlined and it looks like my drive is failing (I never got around to buying new drives when I got it anyway). The extended drive test shows it is failing. What's the recommendations for RAID type and current thread favourite drives to get?

Can I backup my config when I move to new drives? I've got Unifi, Survalience Station etc. all running off this.

Best Buy still has 8TB Easystores on sale for 140, with tax it's 151 and change, that's a pretty good dollar per TB ratio. I just shucked 8 of them and once you get the process down you can strip one out in about 90 seconds, all you need is some old credit cards and one each medium-small flathead & Philips screwdrivers. Oh and actually a small allen wrench as well, Easystore drives have 4 bolts with rubber stoppers on them to hold them in their enclosures. Realtalk you could also get those off with a pair of pliers if necessary, I had to do that to one of mine anyway when it was too tight and I couldn't get it to move without the wrench slipping out.

7 of my drives were standard WD white label, one was some different formfactor that seemed fancier than the others (seemed sturdier, filled with helium etc). Everything passed SMART tests before and after and haven't seen any issues yet though it has just been a week so far. If you do go that route, look on the bottom of the box for ones made in Thailand rather than China. This may be internet rumoring but several people claim Thai drives have a 256mb cache while Chinese ones are 128

Boner Wad
Nov 16, 2003


sharkytm posted:

You should just run most of those in docker (or so I'm told). My Unifi runs in a jail, as does Plex, Transmission, and at one time, CrashPlan.

I agree, right now I run most of what I listed in docker containers on an old dying Mac mini. I am slowly moving services off and either onto another VM that just runs docker containers (considering RancherOS or just regular Debian) or to a dedicated machine. I ran unifi in a container for awhile but had some issues with port sharing and unadopting of devices. I might consider trying again with a macvlan network bridge.

Either way, I still think I need a NAS

Red_Fred
Oct 21, 2010



Fallen Rib

Hadlock posted:

Synology phone support is pretty awesome, impressive, even, give them a ring some time. The number just puts you on the phone with a human, I don't think there's even a phone tree you need to navigate


Takes No Damage posted:

Best Buy still has 8TB Easystores on sale for 140, with tax it's 151 and change, that's a pretty good dollar per TB ratio. I just shucked 8 of them and once you get the process down you can strip one out in about 90 seconds, all you need is some old credit cards and one each medium-small flathead & Philips screwdrivers. Oh and actually a small allen wrench as well, Easystore drives have 4 bolts with rubber stoppers on them to hold them in their enclosures. Realtalk you could also get those off with a pair of pliers if necessary, I had to do that to one of mine anyway when it was too tight and I couldn't get it to move without the wrench slipping out.

7 of my drives were standard WD white label, one was some different formfactor that seemed fancier than the others (seemed sturdier, filled with helium etc). Everything passed SMART tests before and after and haven't seen any issues yet though it has just been a week so far. If you do go that route, look on the bottom of the box for ones made in Thailand rather than China. This may be internet rumoring but several people claim Thai drives have a 256mb cache while Chinese ones are 128

Thanks! Although, I should have added that I'm not US based. Doesn't look like I can get the Easystore locally, any other preferred options?

Takes No Damage
Nov 20, 2004

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.




Grimey Drawer

Red_Fred posted:

Thanks! Although, I should have added that I'm not US based. Doesn't look like I can get the Easystore locally, any other preferred options?

Easystores get thrown around a lot here because they're generally the cheapest, but any WD-based external drive should be comparable, Elements and Passport are two more models, though I don't think their sizes go as high. Just work out what dollar per TB ratio you're comfortable with and see what offerings are available in your neck of the woods. ANY external drive can be shucked if you're brave enough.

vvv You still shucked the drive, it just didn't do you any good in that case. Suppose it is still fair to specify that shucking in general refers to 3.5 or otherwise SATA drives for the purposes of populating a RAID.

Takes No Damage fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Aug 3, 2020

Buff Hardback
Jun 11, 2019


Takes No Damage posted:

Easystores get thrown around a lot here because they're generally the cheapest, but any WD-based external drive should be comparable, Elements and Passport are two more models, though I don't think their sizes go as high. Just work out what dollar per TB ratio you're comfortable with and see what offerings are available in your neck of the woods. ANY external drive can be shucked if you're brave enough.
Not quite. My Passports are 2.5 inch drives, and they're direct USB. Shucking them just results in a naked drive that has no SATA connector.

Not every external can be shucked.

Lowen SoDium
Jun 5, 2003

Highen Fiber


Clapping Larry

A while back, we were talking about Raspberry Pi 4 and Zero W as a IP-KVM. I had put a little bit of work in to making one but never got real far in it.

Today I found someone who did make one and it works pretty drat well. Check it out here: https://pikvm.org/

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





That is cool as hell. Not something I'd recommend over buying a server board with IPMI, but probably a worthwhile solution for someone who is reusing hardware they own instead of trying to resell it and replace it with server equipment.

phosdex
Dec 16, 2005



Tortured By Flan

Lowen SoDium posted:

A while back, we were talking about Raspberry Pi 4 and Zero W as a IP-KVM. I had put a little bit of work in to making one but never got real far in it.

Today I found someone who did make one and it works pretty drat well. Check it out here: https://pikvm.org/

I saw this on Hackernews a few days ago too: https://mtlynch.io/tinypilot/

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?


I bought a few of the cheap HDMI-USB adapters after seeing that and they do work, I'm going to set up my Pi 4 with one hooked up to my server as soon as I get my 3D printer back online to print a case. Will definitely post a trip report.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

IOwnCalculus posted:

That is cool as hell. Not something I'd recommend over buying a server board with IPMI, but probably a worthwhile solution for someone who is reusing hardware they own instead of trying to resell it and replace it with server equipment.
It's pretty weird how the built-in IPMI works for my ASRock board compared to the VGA->HDMI adapter I have since that's the only output available. Seems to me that the adapter is too simple to realize a text terminal mode is entered and doesn't map it over to HDMI. I wind up having to go between a CLI ipmitool with some arcane flags I'm in trouble if I lose the script as daily driver to the machine and some weirdo Java applet or the HDMI output otherwise. Not sure what the Pi would do but it can't be worse than what I have now in my mediocre IPMI setup. Ironically, the tool somewhat invalidates a lot of the purposes of IPMI (remotely mounting ISO media is certainly not covered by the Pi-based solution)

The Pi is more cost-effective for a home lab scenario IMO than a Lantronix spider KVM device at least.

pzy
Feb 20, 2004

Da Boom!


I wish it could do 1080p60 for remote video monitoring/switching

The Milkman
Jun 22, 2003

No one here is alone,
satellites in every home


Lipstick Apathy

Potentially stupid question: I would like to add some SSDs to my FreeNAS setup, 1 or 2 for a boot pool and 2 for VMs, but I'm out of physical space and onboard SATA ports. I have an internal USB 3.0 header and PCIe 16x slot to work with. I found this doodad. It only takes B-key drives (not a problem), and can't boot (not ideal but I already have one SSD USB enclosure deal I can keep using for that). With that many slots I can have a pool for VMs and such, and still have slots for caching/l2arc or whatever down the line. But I'm unclear if this will a) work with the OS (seems plug n play?) and b) expose each drive or if it's doing some sort of weird hardware raid aggregation thing

edit: actually looking at the manfucturer's page like a genious they outright state FreeNAS compatibility and it seems like they do show up as individual sata drives.

https://www.sybausa.com/index.php?r...product_id=1035

The Milkman fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Aug 3, 2020

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

It "should" work. Some cursory googling found a commit for the chipset ID in FreeNAS back in April, so hopefully that's made its way into the OS by now. It should expose them as individual drives, but only to the OS, not the BIOS. At least that's how that chipset is written up on some of the other format adapters: they've got ones for several types of ports that split out into some number of "Non-RAID SATA ports."

Unoriginality
Jan 1, 2008


Putting together a FreeNAS box has been on my to do list for longer than it should have been. My current plan is to slap a 3600 (or possibly a 3700x, but probably not) into an X470D4U, shove 32gb of ECC off ASRack's memory QVL in (probably two sticks of https://www.newegg.com/p/0ZK-01M8-00384), and hope the TrueNAS 12 Beta "improved AMD Ryzen support" means it's not a terrible idea. This thread over on IXSystems makes it seem like it's maybe not the best idea, but probably not a terrible idea. I didn't see anything about the M2 ports on the X470D4U being mutually exclusive with any of the SATA ports, so I'll probably stick a little $20 128GB SATA SSD in, and save the SATADOM port for another shucked drive. Maybe waste another $20 and mirror the root drive.

It will mostly just be a home NAS. In the future it may be asked to transcode things or it may store a few weeks of rolling security camera footage,


There's a part of me that thinks I should put more RAM in even though it will probably never have more than a few concurrent users. Anything obviously wrong/dumb with all this?

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



The Milkman posted:

Potentially stupid question: I would like to add some SSDs to my FreeNAS setup, 1 or 2 for a boot pool and 2 for VMs, but I'm out of physical space and onboard SATA ports. I have an internal USB 3.0 header and PCIe 16x slot to work with. I found this doodad. It only takes B-key drives (not a problem), and can't boot (not ideal but I already have one SSD USB enclosure deal I can keep using for that). With that many slots I can have a pool for VMs and such, and still have slots for caching/l2arc or whatever down the line. But I'm unclear if this will a) work with the OS (seems plug n play?) and b) expose each drive or if it's doing some sort of weird hardware raid aggregation thing

edit: actually looking at the manfucturer's page like a genious they outright state FreeNAS compatibility and it seems like they do show up as individual sata drives.

https://www.sybausa.com/index.php?r...product_id=1035
It's a PCIe to SATA bridge, yes. So you'll get SATA speeds, not NVMe speeds - ie. ~550MBps per device, not several GBps. Nor will you get the optimizations available in the CAM I/O subsystem that's used for NVMe disks specifically.
In FreeBSD, it's supported as of April 1st, but it looks like it'll only be in the new version, according to the tags on the downstream repository.

D. Ebdrup fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Aug 4, 2020

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Gimme Gimme Swedish Fish...



Fallen Rib

Unoriginality posted:

Putting together a FreeNAS box has been on my to do list for longer than it should have been. My current plan is to slap a 3600 (or possibly a 3700x, but probably not) into an X470D4U, shove 32gb of ECC off ASRack's memory QVL in (probably two sticks of https://www.newegg.com/p/0ZK-01M8-00384), and hope the TrueNAS 12 Beta "improved AMD Ryzen support" means it's not a terrible idea. This thread over on IXSystems makes it seem like it's maybe not the best idea, but probably not a terrible idea. I didn't see anything about the M2 ports on the X470D4U being mutually exclusive with any of the SATA ports, so I'll probably stick a little $20 128GB SATA SSD in, and save the SATADOM port for another shucked drive. Maybe waste another $20 and mirror the root drive.

It will mostly just be a home NAS. In the future it may be asked to transcode things or it may store a few weeks of rolling security camera footage,


There's a part of me that thinks I should put more RAM in even though it will probably never have more than a few concurrent users. Anything obviously wrong/dumb with all this?

It's your money, but for that workload you could get away with a lot less CPU and I don't think Ryzen is the right move right now when it comes to a NAS. I just built a new desktop and that sure as poo poo got a Ryzen (3700X), but I'd stick with Intel for a NAS. More RAM is always better for ZFS, so no disagreement there.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

If Godzilla can do it, you know I can deliver!

Pillbug

sharkytm posted:

It's your money, but for that workload you could get away with a lot less CPU and I don't think Ryzen is the right move right now when it comes to a NAS. I just built a new desktop and that sure as poo poo got a Ryzen (3700X), but I'd stick with Intel for a NAS. More RAM is always better for ZFS, so no disagreement there.

Ryzen is perfect for this, more cores and IO for less than a comparable Intel. What issues did yours have?

CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Aug 4, 2020

Less Fat Luke
May 23, 2003

Just the tip!


Exciting Lemon

Also the X470D4U shows that you need a Ryzen PRO to get ECC support which from what I can tell are completely unavailable to non-OEMs.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

If Godzilla can do it, you know I can deliver!

Pillbug

Less Fat Luke posted:

Also the X470D4U shows that you need a Ryzen PRO to get ECC support which from what I can tell are completely unavailable to non-OEMs.

No, the ECC support is available on all Zen Ryzens, what isn't there is the Motherboard. If the Motherboard says it supports ECC, then any Ryzen will use the ECC if enabled with ECC RAM. They've had ECC by default since Zen1, but the motherboard support hasn't been there.

You have to have a certified ECC board with ECC enable capable in the BIOS, and there's a couple of the X570s that support ECC. The one upside is that even if your motherboard is not ECC capable, your Ryzen will happily use ECC RAM just sans the ECC.

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cp...ts_ecc_memory/1

CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Aug 4, 2020

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


Less Fat Luke posted:

Also the X470D4U shows that you need a Ryzen PRO to get ECC support which from what I can tell are completely unavailable to non-OEMs.

thatís only for APUs

Less Fat Luke
May 23, 2003

Just the tip!


Exciting Lemon

Interesting that's good to know, I was misreading this line from ASrock:

quote:

*For Picasso Ridge and Raven Ridge CPUs, ECC is only supported with PRO CPUs.
I guess all the newer ones are Mattisse Ridge which will work. Now I kinda wanna replace my dying 3770 + motherboard.

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



ECC is not a boolean. It can either work in one of the following modes, depending on vendor and sometimes even depending on the model of motherboard:
  • Not at all
  • Motherboard will POST with ECC DIMMs
  • Bitflips are silently corrected, but no non-maskable interrupt is generated - not even for multiple simultaneous bitflips
  • Single bitflips are silently corrected, and double bitflips generate NMIs
  • All bitflips generate an NMI
  • Double bitflips generate a panic event at the OS level
  • Single bitflips generate panic event at the OS level
Unless you order in enough numbers at a given vendor, you're not likely to know which, until you find out the hard way or you know someone who you trust to know the information.
With at least a few of those options, it'll be when it's too late to fix the system, and you've got data corruption.

D. Ebdrup fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Aug 4, 2020

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

If you can get stuff to show up in the logs, you might be able to decide it is really working. Maybe a person could overclock the RAM to the point where errors happen in a reasonable amount of time?

https://serverfault.com/questions/6...errors-in-linux

D. Ebdrup
Mar 13, 2009



taqueso posted:

If you can get stuff to show up in the logs, you might be able to decide it is really working. Maybe a person could overclock the RAM to the point where errors happen in a reasonable amount of time?

https://serverfault.com/questions/6...errors-in-linux
Machine check exceptions should be in the system log, sure - but until you actually see one and decode it with mcelog, you can't know.

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Gimme Gimme Swedish Fish...



Fallen Rib

CommieGIR posted:

Ryzen is perfect for this, more cores and IO for less than a comparable Intel. What issues did yours have?

If they want to go Ryzen, then a Ryzen 5 2600 or 3600 would be plenty sufficient for the workload. I had no direct experience, just saw lots of complaints on the FreeNAS forums, but it looks like most of that was Zen1 issues. If they're doing CPU Plex transcoding, I think Intel is still better for that. I'd rather buy a $200 barebones Intel E3-V3+ server and build from there rather than piecing together something from new and $$ parts. That Asrock Rack motherboard is $230-$270, DDR4 ECC UDIMMs aren't cheap at $100/16GB, and a 3700x is $280. That'd buy a pretty decent tower server, and that's before the cost of a case, power supply, etc. I don't see the need to blow a bunch of money on cores and IO that won't be used or needed.

I dunno... I love my Ryzen desktop. I know the ECC issues have been worked out on the server boards that support it, but there could be other issues out there, and there isn't much community support for it yet.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

D. Ebdrup posted:

Machine check exceptions should be in the system log, sure - but until you actually see one and decode it with mcelog, you can't know.

Right, that's why I was thinking OCing the RAM might be able to bring them out

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Hughlander
May 11, 2005



Just checked my Ryzen 3900X

code:
 dmidecode 3.2
Getting SMBIOS data from sysfs.
SMBIOS 3.2.0 present.

Handle 0x0012, DMI type 7, 27 bytes
Cache Information
        Socket Designation: L1 - Cache
        Configuration: Enabled, Not Socketed, Level 1
        Operational Mode: Write Back
        Location: Internal
        Installed Size: 768 kB
        Maximum Size: 768 kB
        Supported SRAM Types:
                Pipeline Burst
        Installed SRAM Type: Pipeline Burst
        Speed: 1 ns
****   Error Correction Type: Multi-bit ECC ****
        System Type: Unified
        Associativity: 8-way Set-associative

Handle 0x0013, DMI type 7, 27 bytes
Cache Information
        Socket Designation: L2 - Cache
        Configuration: Enabled, Not Socketed, Level 2
        Operational Mode: Write Back
        Location: Internal
        Installed Size: 6144 kB
        Maximum Size: 6144 kB
        Supported SRAM Types:
                Pipeline Burst
        Installed SRAM Type: Pipeline Burst
        Speed: 1 ns
****  Error Correction Type: Multi-bit ECC ****
        System Type: Unified
        Associativity: 8-way Set-associative

Handle 0x0014, DMI type 7, 27 bytes
Cache Information
        Socket Designation: L3 - Cache
        Configuration: Enabled, Not Socketed, Level 3
        Operational Mode: Write Back
        Location: Internal
        Installed Size: 65536 kB
        Maximum Size: 65536 kB
        Supported SRAM Types:
                Pipeline Burst
        Installed SRAM Type: Pipeline Burst
        Speed: 1 ns
****        Error Correction Type: Multi-bit ECC ****
        System Type: Unified
        Associativity: 16-way Set-associative

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