Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





Keep in mind that 1U rack units will be very loud because their tiny fans have to spin very fast to push the same amount of air. A larger 3 or 4u unit with bigger fans can spin them much slower for a quieter operation

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



Fun fact: HPs iLO will run the fans slower if you use a HP branded LSI controller of the exact same variant as the one you already had.

And now for something completely different:
Would it make sense to have an avatar gang tag for this thread? And does someone have the talent to make it?

BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Feb 21, 2021

Nulldevice
Jun 16, 2006


Toilet Rascal

BlankSystemDaemon posted:


And now for something completely different:
Would it make sense to have an avatar gang tag for this thread? And does someone have the talent to make it?

That would be a pretty cool idea. Sadly I have no latent artistic talent.

Axe-man
Apr 16, 2005

The product of hundreds of hours of scientific investigation and research.

The perfect meatball.


Clapping Larry

Yeah, I'm down for that. I've been working in NAS stuff for 2 years now, so I have been marked for life.

Boner Wad
Nov 16, 2003


lampey posted:

T320 is another option, will do 8 3.5" drives. Tower form factor is more flexible if you aren't rack mounting it. An r720xd with 12x 3tb drives is a common config too.

I have a T320 but it only has 4x 3.5" drives. Any ideas on what it would take to do that? Or should I just get the drive bay and an LSI card?

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



The drive bay and LSI card combo is nigh-unbeatable.

Rooted Vegetable
Jun 1, 2002



What am I missing about the desirability of the 24 3.5in bay dual xeon 64gb Supermicro 4U server? For about USD $734 (CAD $950ish) + shipping?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/143951033926

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Rooted Vegetable posted:

What am I missing about the desirability of the 24 3.5in bay dual xeon 64gb Supermicro 4U server? For about USD $734 (CAD $950ish) + shipping?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/143951033926

Probably not "missing" a whole lot here. The E5-2670 v2 is from 2013 ($50-$60/ea). Registered DDR3 is cheapish (~$150). A LSI 9210-8i HBA is ~$35, maybe $50 with cables. Motherboard goes for $100.

So you're talking like $400 for the guts, with similar blank chassis going for $300-$400. So price-wise it's about right.

I mean, if you're asking "wait, you're telling me I can get a big gently caress-off 4U rack server with hardware competent enough to do basic NAS duties and some light VMs for $800 delivered? Are you real?" The answer is yeah, you absolutely can, these things pop up all the time on eBay. The downsides are that it's using a pair of 115W CPUs from 2013, so it's gonna suck down a lot of power compared to something more modern, and between being Ivy Bridge and DDR3, the performance may be a bit more limited than you'd think. But yeah, not a bad box to use to fart around on.

DrDork fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Feb 22, 2021

bobfather
Sep 20, 2001

I will analyze your nervous system for beer money

Old hardware can still be worth it. For example, my old Xeon 2650 v2 with 56GB of ECC RAM and 8 SATA ports idled at 96 watts with 2 SSDs and 6 hard drives connected. Its replacement, a Ryzen 1600 with 16 GB of non-ECC and 12 SATA ports (8 from an LSI HBA) idles at 98 watts with the same drives.

Granted, the Ryzen system is about 20% faster, but the Xeon system is still nice.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





I have a 2U box with that same motherboard (only 8x 3.5" bays), 64GB RAM, and dual 2667 V2s (more clock, less cores, very similar Passmark scores). The only times I've run into any real performance issues were Crashplan's obscene RAM consumption, and trying to have Plex transcode 4K video. One 4K stream is about 60-70% CPU utilization on its own.

Solved both of those by getting rid of Crashplan and only serving 1080p-or-less content. If I ever start hoarding 4K, it'll be in a separate library only to be used on devices that can directly play it, or I'll add a GPU.

If you want to run any guest VMs on it instead of just Docker containers, you will probably want more RAM.

Less Fat Luke
May 23, 2003

Just the tip!



Exciting Lemon

Yeah that's what I was about to point out, there's no QuickSync instructions on most Xeons except I think the E- series so transcoding will need to chew up a lot more cores and power.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Yeah, when you could pick up a P400 for $50 that was a good option for trasncoding, but now they're like $150 soooo...

Still, if you're not streaming to ancient devices or to mobile phones while on the go, a lot of devices can natively handle 4k now. Still might run into some issues with soft-subs on TVs for foreign films, anime, whatever, though, since AFAIK those all still have to get trasncoded even at "native" resolution to add the subs in.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





To be fair, transcoding 1080p streams (I have a lot of users who apparently have no ide that they can turn it up from "720p 4Mbps") is not a lot of work for a 2667/2670 V2 system. I've had a dozen of those transcodes running before with no issues.

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





IOwnCalculus posted:

To be fair, transcoding 1080p streams (I have a lot of users who apparently have no ide that they can turn it up from "720p 4Mbps") is not a lot of work for a 2667/2670 V2 system. I've had a dozen of those transcodes running before with no issues.

I mean, if you have a modernish laptop you no longer use you can just put the plex server on that, while mounting the network drive from your NAS and then do the actual transcoding on that laptop with its lower power but still transcode capable cpu/integrated gpu.

Rooted Vegetable
Jun 1, 2002



IOwnCalculus posted:

[Crashplan]
[Plex 4K Transcoding]
[Dockers]

If you want to run any guest VMs on it instead of just Docker containers, you will probably want more RAM.

I'll be honest, I'm doing all of that except the 4K Plex Transcoding (which is significant) on a single Xeon with 32GB ram... and 23.5gb of that being dedicated to a Win10 VM with my Graphics Card passed through. Crashplan's memory usage may be silly but

However, your exact words were "want more RAM", not need it. On that, I agree! Since I went up to 32gb I wasn't hurting for RAM but occasionally Unraid kills a process due to ram exhaustion because Crashplan + 23.5GB Win10VM ate most of it. (For that matter, Unraid, would it really kill you to use swap in the age of SSDs?)

On another point, what attracted me to the board above was the dual Xeon's as I could just outright dedicate one to that Win10 mostly gaming VM.

That and what seemed to be an inexhaustible number of drive bays. Please put barbecue sauce on those words, I shall eat them later.

Less Fat Luke
May 23, 2003

Just the tip!



Exciting Lemon

IOwnCalculus posted:

To be fair, transcoding 1080p streams (I have a lot of users who apparently have no ide that they can turn it up from "720p 4Mbps") is not a lot of work for a 2667/2670 V2 system. I've had a dozen of those transcodes running before with no issues.
Sure but a NUC could do it with QuickSync at like 5 watts per stream or something ridiculous. With older Xeons that have a lot of horse power it does directly translate to heat output that needs to be cooled and power usage. The Xeon Es seem like a decent middle ground if you want an overkill NAS - decent TDP and hardware transcoding.

Edit: And noise

Less Fat Luke fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Feb 22, 2021

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Less Fat Luke posted:

Sure but a NUC could do it with QuickSync at like 5 watts per stream or something ridiculous.

True, but sadly NUCs (even the older ones) are stupid expensive for what they are--which is a shame, because they're cool and I'd love to use them for all sorts of things.

But as has been pointed out, unless you're doing 4k transcoding, even older CPUs are able to manage that entirely in software without much trouble.

Less Fat Luke
May 23, 2003

Just the tip!



Exciting Lemon

Yeah fair (though I'm cheap and bought one that's several gens old). I think my dream setup would be a NUC that could somehow connect to a drive array like and MD1200 or it's successors honestly.

Less Fat Luke
May 23, 2003

Just the tip!



Exciting Lemon

Ooh maybe in 5 years I can get one of those Extreme NUC 9s used and shove an LSI HBA in there!

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Rooted Vegetable posted:

I'll be honest, I'm doing all of that except the 4K Plex Transcoding (which is significant) on a single Xeon with 32GB ram... and 23.5gb of that being dedicated to a Win10 VM with my Graphics Card passed through. Crashplan's memory usage may be silly but

However, your exact words were "want more RAM", not need it. On that, I agree! Since I went up to 32gb I wasn't hurting for RAM but occasionally Unraid kills a process due to ram exhaustion because Crashplan + 23.5GB Win10VM ate most of it. (For that matter, Unraid, would it really kill you to use swap in the age of SSDs?)

In my case, it was qemu refusing to even start a VM because it couldn't clear out a large enough block of RAM on its own, or some variant of that issue. I just stopped running the VM because I wasn't doing anything particularly useful with it anymore.

Crashplan's awful performance and absurd RAM hog nature both made me consider giving it up even before they jacked their price structure. Now I just back up stuff I care about to a Google drive using a cronjob for rclone sync.

Rooted Vegetable posted:

That and what seemed to be an inexhaustible number of drive bays. Please put barbecue sauce on those words, I shall eat them later.

May I introduce you to your next best friend, the Netapp DS4243/DS4246?


Less Fat Luke posted:

Sure but a NUC could do it with QuickSync at like 5 watts per stream or something ridiculous. With older Xeons that have a lot of horse power it does directly translate to heat output that needs to be cooled and power usage. The Xeon Es seem like a decent middle ground if you want an overkill NAS - decent TDP and hardware transcoding.

Edit: And noise

All valid, though I don't think any solution involving 24 spindles is going to be quiet. I have the benefit of keeping my server off-site in a space where power, noise, and heat are of absolutely no concern.

Less Fat Luke
May 23, 2003

Just the tip!



Exciting Lemon

IOwnCalculus posted:

All valid, though I don't think any solution involving 24 spindles is going to be quiet. I have the benefit of keeping my server off-site in a space where power, noise, and heat are of absolutely no concern.
Right now I'm super torn cause I'm about to have a garage after decades of apartment living where noise and power usage was a huge concern so I'm now thinking of all these over-the-top possibilities but still wanna be a bit mindful cause I pay the power bills.

I know from experience the Dell disk shelves are easy to quiet down with some serial cable commands though which might be what I end up going with

Rooted Vegetable
Jun 1, 2002



IOwnCalculus posted:

Crashplan's awful performance and absurd RAM hog nature both made me consider giving it up even before they jacked their price structure. Now I just back up stuff I care about to a Google drive using a cronjob for rclone sync.

Just had a look at mine running in the jlesage crashplan pro docker image and it's using 914.8MiB of RAM.

You know I think I've found why I subconciously looked at the 64gb ram server with 8 ram slots.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

If you're just using them for light NAS/Plex duty, it won't suck that much power. Even if it idles at ~200W, that's about $20/mo for power. A gob of HDDs frankly doesn't take that much power (5-6W/ea under load, usually), so a dozen drives is still only around 50-75W.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Rooted Vegetable posted:

Just had a look at mine running in the jlesage crashplan pro docker image and it's using 914.8MiB of RAM.

You know I think I've found why I subconciously looked at the 64gb ram server with 8 ram slots.

That's the container I was using and mine was using something like 10x that. It's been a long time since I ditched Crashplan so I can't say with any certainty.

Also, that 4U box has 16 DIMM slots.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



I can definitely get behind the Xeon E5-2667v2 - my server has two of them and 264GB memory, and it does clean build of FreeBSDs world in about 90 minutes without TMPFS, which is screaming fast compared to anything else I've had (although for day-to-day development and usage, I use meta-mode which cuts it down to only building what's changed between each diff, so it's a matter of minutes for most things except when libc or the like gets bumped).

Rooted Vegetable
Jun 1, 2002



IOwnCalculus posted:

That's the container I was using and mine was using something like 10x that. It's been a long time since I ditched Crashplan so I can't say with any certainty.

Also, that 4U box has 16 DIMM slots.

Oh now I want it more. How do I hide it in a condo? (I refused to take no for an answer)

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Rooted Vegetable posted:

Oh now I want it more. How do I hide it in a condo? (I refused to take no for an answer)

Do you have a deep closet you don't use for much?

https://wiki.eth0.nl/index.php/LackRack

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





Well, friends, that is why you don't use USB devices as your primary storage for your Plex server. Almost lost everything to it coming unmounted somehow.

I should really get a proper setup.

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009


What do you guys use for monitor/keyboard for your rack mounted hardware? I'm slowly moving my computers to a rack that I bought (I posted about it in the Homelabs thread), switching from tower cases to rack-mountable stuff. I have an old CRT right now that I use when I need to have a monitor attached, but the entire point of my moving exercise is to get rid of anything not rack-mountable. I will have to get on the Netapp DSxxxx train as well at some point.

What I found on ebay for rack monitor-keyboard, seem to be on the expensive side. Not a lot (like this one for example is $124 US, about $160CAD with $20CAD shipping and $20CAD import charges, I'm looking at basically $200CAD) but still. There are small lovely LCD monitors that can be bought for $20 or so.

In your experience, is it worth it to invest into such an item (and a KVM I guess, which I didn't absolutely needed before, but I suppose now I will)?

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002


Volguus posted:

What do you guys use for monitor/keyboard for your rack mounted hardware? I'm slowly moving my computers to a rack that I bought (I posted about it in the Homelabs thread), switching from tower cases to rack-mountable stuff. I have an old CRT right now that I use when I need to have a monitor attached, but the entire point of my moving exercise is to get rid of anything not rack-mountable. I will have to get on the Netapp DSxxxx train as well at some point.

What I found on ebay for rack monitor-keyboard, seem to be on the expensive side. Not a lot (like this one for example is $124 US, about $160CAD with $20CAD shipping and $20CAD import charges, I'm looking at basically $200CAD) but still. There are small lovely LCD monitors that can be bought for $20 or so.

In your experience, is it worth it to invest into such an item (and a KVM I guess, which I didn't absolutely needed before, but I suppose now I will)?

My motherboard has IPMI.

You can also build raspberry pi KVMs.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Matt Zerella posted:

My motherboard has IPMI.

This is the way.

Another option is to use a web-based console for something like ESXi. Doesn't let you do boot interrupts or whatever, but does let you effectively KVM into any VMs you happen to have running on it. I've had one IPMI-less server set up like that and have only needed to drag an actual monitor/kb over to it once in the last two years, and that was when I was doing a bunch of hardware upgrades and needed to diddle around in the BIOS.

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002


https://pikvm.org

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009


Thanks, this looks promising.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


I feel like those have been "in progress" for years.

The Milkman
Jun 22, 2003

No one here is alone,
satellites in every home


Matt Zerella posted:

My motherboard has IPMI.

Yeah this. I just wish it was more like what I was under the impression it was (something generic I could connect to with any ol VNC-ish client) instead of what it is (semi-proprietary interface that in my case relies on a crummy and increasingly out of date java web start widget)

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002


The Milkman posted:

Yeah this. I just wish it was more like what I was under the impression it was (something generic I could connect to with any ol VNC-ish client) instead of what it is (semi-proprietary interface that in my case relies on a crummy and increasingly out of date java web start widget)

Mine is HTML5

But yeah a lot of rack mount KVMs have the same lovely Java based option too.

X470D4M was speedy but goddamn the bells and whistles on it are nice.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


Whatever I have around to get the most minimal linux+ssh setup going, then I unhook it all and pray I never need it again. Monitors are for suckers.

freeasinbeer
Mar 26, 2015

urf. urg. mmph. i'm a stupid blind guy with no legs. urrrg. hurble. i'm homeless. gblgblbgblgblgble

There is this: https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=PAUL#Specifications

Buff Hardback
Jun 11, 2019



The Milkman posted:

Yeah this. I just wish it was more like what I was under the impression it was (something generic I could connect to with any ol VNC-ish client) instead of what it is (semi-proprietary interface that in my case relies on a crummy and increasingly out of date java web start widget)

If its supermicro, you can use IPMIView and not have to fight with Java web start stuff

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Fuckin' finally!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply