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Crunchy Black
Oct 24, 2017

CASTOR: Uh, it was all fine and you don't remember?
VINDMAN: No, it was bad and I do remember.




I would +1 the icydock rec in this situation. Overbuilt maybe but good, almost definitely.

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SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014




Jesus, it's like those hung pirates that you sail past as you make your way into port.

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





When I first read that I took hung pirates to mean something completely different.

Hughlander
May 11, 2005



Haven't seen this posted but is one reason I like having my own Proxmox based solution https://www.tomshardware.com/news/hackers-exploit-qnap-vulnerabilities-turn-nas-crypto-miners

tuyop
Sep 14, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted


Fun Shoe

Nitrousoxide posted:

When I first read that I took hung pirates to mean something completely different.

Yeah this is why it’s supposed to be “hanged”

Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003

Enter the woods, find a friend!


What are safe/ideal temps for hard drives? I've got a couple of platter drives stacked in a new case and they're running a bit warmer than they used to be.

Toshiba DT10ACA300 95F
Samsung HD103SJ 88F

I've always been paranoid about heat so this is probably nothing to worry about but lol worry brain

xtal
Jan 9, 2011



Has anyone built a NAS recently and can share their setup with me? I'm about to buy a $200 3-drive enclosure to plug into my raspberry pi and I feel like at this point I might be able to build my own NAS given I already have the drives.

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Gimme Gimme Swedish Fish...



Fallen Rib

Capn Beeb posted:

What are safe/ideal temps for hard drives? I've got a couple of platter drives stacked in a new case and they're running a bit warmer than they used to be.

Toshiba DT10ACA300 95F
Samsung HD103SJ 88F

I've always been paranoid about heat so this is probably nothing to worry about but lol worry brain

95F? Nothing to worry about. I start to worry at 50C.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



There's been a study from 2007, one from 2013, and another study from 2014 all of which come to different conclusions, but all the datasets are ranged with temperatures that you'd find in a datacenter, so it's pretty safe to say that we don't know, but that if there is temperature correlation with higher failure rates, it's likely to be worse the hotter the drive runs (simply because that's how all electronics fail faster).

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Made me think of this tweet

https://twitter.com/_Skunnyk_/status/1369638092810895366

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


Capn Beeb posted:

What are safe/ideal temps for hard drives? I've got a couple of platter drives stacked in a new case and they're running a bit warmer than they used to be.

Toshiba DT10ACA300 95F
Samsung HD103SJ 88F

I've always been paranoid about heat so this is probably nothing to worry about but lol worry brain

My NAS seems to be between 88F-91F depending on the disk. Ambient in this room right now is 72F. Spec sheet on that Samsung disk is 140F.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





I have some ancient WD Reds that spent a good chunk of their life running in an unconditioned garage. In Arizona.

The only problem I've had with them is they really don't like my Netapp enclosure.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





xtal posted:

Has anyone built a NAS recently and can share their setup with me? I'm about to buy a $200 3-drive enclosure to plug into my raspberry pi and I feel like at this point I might be able to build my own NAS given I already have the drives.

Synology DS418 are $250 refurbished and run some variant of Linux

https://www.newegg.com/synology-ds1515/p/14P-000V-002D3?item=9SIAJA1BD73966

Anyways my NAS setup is a DS418 and you can pry it from my cold, dead, glacier backed up, hands

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





Hadlock posted:

Synology DS418 are $250 refurbished and run some variant of Linux

https://www.newegg.com/synology-ds1515/p/14P-000V-002D3?item=9SIAJA1BD73966

Anyways my NAS setup is a DS418 and you can pry it from my cold, dead, glacier backed up, hands

I wonder if a Synology is not locked down so hard that you could install trueNAS on it.

Nulldevice
Jun 16, 2006


Toilet Rascal

Nitrousoxide posted:

I wonder if a Synology is not locked down so hard that you could install trueNAS on it.

Probably not possible for a lot of reasons. You'd need to be able to hook up a keyboard and mouse to do the initial install of TrueNAS or at least have something like IPMI. Neither of which Syno units have. At least in the consumer space. Now if you wanted to build something in a similar form factor, this case is a great one - https://www.newegg.com/black-superm...cB&gclsrc=aw.ds - I built one for the SO using one. Four hot swap bays with backplane, built in 250W bronze PSU, mini ITX form factor, and pretty damned small in person. Makes for a great TrueNAS box. This is about $30 less than I paid for the case around Xmas time. It will also house 2x2.5" SSDs for TrueNAS's operating system on the top and right of the hot swap cage very easily. You can slide out the motherboard tray as well. So a simple mITX board and cheap CPU and some RAM will get you going. You'll also want a low profile HBA for the main drives and can get away with a 4 drive model flashed to IT mode. I had most of my parts on hand already, just needed an adapter from Supermicro to adapt their header to fit regular power switch etc connections on the motherboard, and a CPU. Tossed in four 4TB drives in RAIDZ1 and that was it. Great little system. Obviously not going to be as power efficient as a Syno but similar form factor and you get TrueNAS.

Axe-man
Apr 16, 2005

The product of hundreds of hours of scientific investigation and research.

The perfect meatball.


Clapping Larry

If you manage to wipe your Synology and install a different OS, I will buy you a coke. Mainly cause you are very talented and have more linux fu than I could ever have

xtal
Jan 9, 2011



I should have added that using my weird Linux distro is a requirement for me

Rooted Vegetable
Jun 1, 2002



An old Lenovo Server may be a better choice than attempting to bend a Synology unit to your will past it's intended use.

I've got good things to say about my TS430 which I picked up for about C$350 a few years ago in eBay.

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



xtal posted:

Has anyone built a NAS recently and can share their setup with me? I'm about to buy a $200 3-drive enclosure to plug into my raspberry pi and I feel like at this point I might be able to build my own NAS given I already have the drives.

Do you have a particular form factor in mind? As other folks have said, there's inexpensive servers available but some are the models from Dell or Lenovo that go on sale all the time (Dell T40, Lenovo TS430) or there are also refurbished or used servers. Heck I got a Chenbro 1U rack mount server last year for ~$120 with a 4 core xeon and 16GB of RAM that can hold 12 disks with the downside being that it's loud with a bunch of 40mm fans and 19" wide by 33" deep. I wouldn't suggest that unless you have somewhere to park it out of hearing range but there's a lot of options.

xtal
Jan 9, 2011



No form factor in mind. I was actually very close to buying a Dell R710 but decided against it for electricity and noise reasons. I could still be convinced because I want to start a home lab and use it for virtualization. Another big difference there is the ECC RAM.

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



xtal posted:

No form factor in mind. I was actually very close to buying a Dell R710 but decided against it for electricity and noise reasons. I could still be convinced because I want to start a home lab and use it for virtualization. Another big difference there is the ECC RAM.

Well, for a tower form factor there's the Dell T### which are tower versions of their servers. The T410 to T430 are affordable on ebay (obviously price increasing as the generations increase) but they are a little bigger than an ATX case and may have some proprietary stuff. I set up a T430 for a client in 2018 running FreeNAS with a bunch of 8TB disks and it's been super solid for their backups and some file sharing, but their requirements weren't super intensive since there's only about a dozen users.

It seems like the rackmount stuff is often a little cheaper than tower stuff since it's harder to re-sell since not as many home users are putting in racks or want to deal with the noise of 40mm fans. Some of the motherboards in a rackmount case will fit normal ATX cases, though. I recased a couple of X8DTL-3F for my VM servers although they're too old to recommend these days (first gen core based Xeons).

KS
Jun 10, 2003


Outrageous Lumpwad

Personal bias since I did this, but I think the way to go is the RAM and CPUs from an older server, a matching Supermicro ATX board, and silence-oriented tower cases and noctua fans. Rack mount stuff is loud.

Right now 2600 series CPUs and X10 motherboards with all sorts of badass features and IPMI can be had for peanuts. 1U servers sell at a discount compared to 2u, and damaged chassis more so. Looks like you can get a motherboard, two 12-core 2667s, and 128GB ECC RAM for $550ish. That's nuts.

My earlier post started life as a DL380 G6. I recently grabbed 2 X5660 processors and 96GB RAM to give it another few years. It cost $40 after selling my old 48GB RAM set.

KS fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Mar 12, 2021

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



Those Nehalem chips (Westmere-EP, to be specific) are insanely power hungry compared to Ivy Bridge, and lots of Sandy Bridge server boards support going from E5-2600 to E5-2600v2 with just a BIOS upgrade, so it's definitely worth looking into.

EDIT: This is a direct comparison between five generations of basically the same processor and from Nehalem to Ivy Bridge there's double the number of threads, higher clock, +25% instructions per clock, more than double the cache.
Ivy Bridge E* also added APICv which is hardware accelerated interrupts for hypervisor guests (ie. guests without device polling uses a lot less CPU).

BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Mar 12, 2021

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


BlankSystemDaemon posted:

Those Nehalem chips (Westmere-EP, to be specific) are insanely power hungry compared to Ivy Bridge, and lots of Sandy Bridge server boards support going from E5-2600 to E5-2600v2 with just a BIOS upgrade, so it's definitely worth looking into.

EDIT: This is a direct comparison between the three generations and from Nehalem to Ivy Bridge there's double the number of threads, higher clock, +25% instructions per clock, more than double the cache.
Ivy Bridge E* also added APICv which is hardware accelerated interrupts for hypervisor guests (ie. guests without device polling uses a lot less CPU).

Yeah - a v2 chip will pay for itself in power consumption alone. They're super old now, so make sure you get a replacement power supply and bios battery if you buy one. (For those looking.) We put a rack of v2's next to a rack of v1's when they came out and it was crazy how much more we could get done for the same number of watts.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



H110Hawk posted:

Yeah - a v2 chip will pay for itself in power consumption alone. They're super old now, so make sure you get a replacement power supply and bios battery if you buy one. (For those looking.) We put a rack of v2's next to a rack of v1's when they came out and it was crazy how much more we could get done for the same number of watts.
The difference is absolutely staggering.

There's basically no reason to buy anything newer than Ivy Bridge used, as you barely get any IPC improvements (7% per generation at most), and clocks actually go down some.
Also, Haswell is considerably more expensive on the used market.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure if you try and use those AVX2 registers on the Haswell+ era processors, your CPU will downclock itself to like 1.3GHz per core, to prevent from overheating.

BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Mar 12, 2021

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





Nulldevice posted:

Probably not possible for a lot of reasons. You'd need to be able to hook up a keyboard and mouse to do the initial install of TrueNAS or at least have something like IPMI. Neither of which Syno units have. At least in the consumer space. Now if you wanted to build something in a similar form factor, this case is a great one - https://www.newegg.com/black-superm...cB&gclsrc=aw.ds - I built one for the SO using one. Four hot swap bays with backplane, built in 250W bronze PSU, mini ITX form factor, and pretty damned small in person. Makes for a great TrueNAS box. This is about $30 less than I paid for the case around Xmas time. It will also house 2x2.5" SSDs for TrueNAS's operating system on the top and right of the hot swap cage very easily. You can slide out the motherboard tray as well. So a simple mITX board and cheap CPU and some RAM will get you going. You'll also want a low profile HBA for the main drives and can get away with a 4 drive model flashed to IT mode. I had most of my parts on hand already, just needed an adapter from Supermicro to adapt their header to fit regular power switch etc connections on the motherboard, and a CPU. Tossed in four 4TB drives in RAIDZ1 and that was it. Great little system. Obviously not going to be as power efficient as a Syno but similar form factor and you get TrueNAS.

Hmm, i'm thinking something like an atom 3000 series mobo/chip like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Supermicro-M...077BHMN8X&psc=1

You want a lot of RAM with TrueNAS and most mITX boards only have two dimm slots available. It's also got a nice low 16w TDP. I doubt the number of drives you're fitting in a mITX case are going to strain that CPU

My main concern would be whether it would be able to handle a plex server, or if that would have to be hosted off of it and the network drive mounted to it.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





Thirding thirding Ivy Bridge, Ivy Bridge when running below 50% capacity is indistinguishable from a modern CPU, the step from sandy bridge to ivy bridge was massive, and haswell was almost as big.

Anything older is worthless, especially if you live in a climate where air conditioning is required in the summer

The reason why you can't find haswell on the used market is because nothing better has come along to entice most people to upgrade. I think haswell carne along in 2014? Ivy Bridge was 2013

Axe-man
Apr 16, 2005

The product of hundreds of hours of scientific investigation and research.

The perfect meatball.


Clapping Larry

I actually ran an ivy bridge gaming pc until 2019 and it ran almost everything just great, I can imaigne as a server it must have been amazing.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

So what you’re saying is I really should update my i5-2500k setup I have for my unraid, for the power savings!!

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





If you live in an air conditioned climate, if your server lives indoors, for every dollar each month you spend on electricity, you spend another $0.33 pumping the heat from your sandy bridge cpu outdoors; depends on how loaded up your server is on average but yeah haswell + gold rated power supply is probably a net benefit if you're able to recycle your ddr3 memory; pretty sure haswell was the last cpu to support ddr3 unconditionally

Hadlock fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Mar 13, 2021

Crunchy Black
Oct 24, 2017

CASTOR: Uh, it was all fine and you don't remember?
VINDMAN: No, it was bad and I do remember.




You're Batshit Crazy if you're building a Nehalem, Westmere or, gulp, Gulftown based server in 2021. *nervously looks at 2009 MacPro 3,1 that sits idle 99% of the time except for a really particular work use case I have that takes like an hour a week*

Wizard of the Deep
Sep 25, 2005


My Alienware M11x Gen1 with a Core 2 Duo from 2010 works just fine as a print server running Windows 10, thank you.

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



Nobody's building with 1st or 2nd gen core parts or recommending to do so. I mentioned that I did it a few years ago but would no longer, it was simply an example of a rackmount board that fit in an ATX case.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

I want to scoop up a broadwell-de xeon-D mini ITX motherboard if those ever get silly cheap. We have a few at work and they are neat little boards. Very low TDP iirc.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





Goons be serving files off dual socket 386 on token ring up ITT

NAS/storage megathread: 4MB DIMM of ECC memory worth it? y/n???

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



Hadlock posted:

Goons be serving files off dual socket 386 on token ring up ITT

NAS/storage megathread: 4MB SIMM of ECC memory worth it? y/n???
Fixed that for you, OP.

Nulldevice
Jun 16, 2006


Toilet Rascal

Nitrousoxide posted:

Hmm, i'm thinking something like an atom 3000 series mobo/chip like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Supermicro-M...077BHMN8X&psc=1

You want a lot of RAM with TrueNAS and most mITX boards only have two dimm slots available. It's also got a nice low 16w TDP. I doubt the number of drives you're fitting in a mITX case are going to strain that CPU

My main concern would be whether it would be able to handle a plex server, or if that would have to be hosted off of it and the network drive mounted to it.

That CPU would probably not be terribly good if you're transcoding. Direct play should be fine however. Depending on your pool size you might not need a huge amount of RAM. I've got 92TB of space with 32GB of RAM and no performance issues. But then I'm not running anything other than rsync, samba, and nfs on it. The ARC doesn't really take a lot of memory in the process of daily operations. It really depends on what your read load looks like. The old 1GB per TB of storage thing really doesn't matter as much as it used to unless you're running enterprise workloads. I looked up the CPU passmark score and it was only 1650. The single thread performance was under 600. My recommendation is to run Plex on a separate device and use the truenas server strictly for storage. The CPU is fine for that function. If you're looking to keep things compact, a NUC might be the best option. Just toss in all flash storage and a decent amount of memory and your choice of operating system, and mount the shares from the truenas server onto it. That's what I've been doing for a while now and it works perfectly fine.

Smashing Link
Jul 8, 2003

I'll keep chucking bombs at you til you fall off that ledge!

Grimey Drawer

I am running dual E5-2690v3s that I got a couple years ago for $200 apiece. If you look back the price cratered around that time, seemingly due to Facebook or similar dumping a huge amount on the secondary market. At the time I asked if they were a good deal on the JDM_WAAAT subreddit and was told the v2 were at the best price point, but I've been very happy with the value I've gotten out of them. The only frustrating part of the build honestly was the price of the motherboards...couldn't find one for less than $400.

Smashing Link fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Mar 13, 2021

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





Nulldevice posted:

That CPU would probably not be terribly good if you're transcoding. Direct play should be fine however. Depending on your pool size you might not need a huge amount of RAM. I've got 92TB of space with 32GB of RAM and no performance issues. But then I'm not running anything other than rsync, samba, and nfs on it. The ARC doesn't really take a lot of memory in the process of daily operations. It really depends on what your read load looks like. The old 1GB per TB of storage thing really doesn't matter as much as it used to unless you're running enterprise workloads. I looked up the CPU passmark score and it was only 1650. The single thread performance was under 600. My recommendation is to run Plex on a separate device and use the truenas server strictly for storage. The CPU is fine for that function. If you're looking to keep things compact, a NUC might be the best option. Just toss in all flash storage and a decent amount of memory and your choice of operating system, and mount the shares from the truenas server onto it. That's what I've been doing for a while now and it works perfectly fine.

I do have a spare laptop that I'm currently running my openmediavault on along with plex and a few docker containers. It seems to do well enough on that but its just got a couple of usb SMA drives connected to it one as the primary storage and one that I rsync the primary drive to as a backup.

It's not an ideal setup but it is one that works using the hardware I had on hand.

Since this laptop has proven to be capable of handling my media server and container needs, maybe I can either directly install a Linux server distro on it and mount the TrueNAS network drive to it and port my containers over, or perhaps proxmox with the ZFS drive mounted to it and then a Linux VM.

I would think an SSD drive (maybe 250gb) as a cache would probably overcome the downsides of the SMA drives by providing a sufficient buffer for writes to fill up so the file system can take as long as it needs to write to the slow SMA drives?

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HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


Hadlock posted:

Goons be serving files off dual socket 386 on token ring up ITT

NAS/storage megathread: 4MB DIMM of ECC memory worth it? y/n???

Netware time!!

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