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Hed
Mar 31, 2004



Fun Shoe

HalloKitty posted:

Netware time!!

Running IPX to protect myself from hackers.

Many many years ago when I was a middle school kid working to help district IT, there was a Netware 2.x library server that needed migrating. Basically we needed the files off of it that drove the digital card catalog. I think it was 10Base2 or Token Ring and we already blew up the library computers so we were stuck and the files were way bigger than floppies.

Since Netware 2.x was on top of DOS or whatever, I ran home and got the yellow parallel port LapLink cable from my dads office and we installed LapLink client and server and copied those directories over

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Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





Be careful which direction you r-sync your stuff kiddos. Just realized my r-sync had broken due to a drive getting unmounted and went to go start them back up, and started up the wrong r-sync, syncing from the now out-of-date backup onto the live drive.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!



Hed posted:

Running IPX to protect myself from hackers.


My IPX story goes like this:

Way way back when I was like 18 or 19 and got my first job being the lowest monkey in the cage at a MSP, a lawyer at one of the customer sites asked if I wanted to do a side job. I went back to their office at 5:00 when I got out, and they were trying to install Command and Conquer (?) on their office computers and wanted to play it on the network.

I didn't really know the differences between IPX/SPX and TCP/IP at the time, and I lucked out somehow and checked the 'IPX/SPX' box on the network properties, and everything started working. Fastest hundred bucks I ever made, I probably drank it all within 2 hours of that.

He didn't want that being logged on our timesheets because it would be billed to the company.

IUG
Jul 14, 2007

Without me, there is no mission.
I am the mission!


I got my stimulus check, and I'm thinking about upgrading my Synology drives from 2TBs to 8TBs (4 in total). I was just going to get some WD Red Plus drives, and maybe watch Amazon via CamelCamelCamel for any deals. Is there anything I could be doing to get a better deal?

phosdex
Dec 16, 2005




These 2 sites were posted earlier:
https://diskprices.com/
https://shucks.top/

movax
Aug 30, 2008



Bob Morales posted:

My IPX story goes like this:

Way way back when I was like 18 or 19 and got my first job being the lowest monkey in the cage at a MSP, a lawyer at one of the customer sites asked if I wanted to do a side job. I went back to their office at 5:00 when I got out, and they were trying to install Command and Conquer (?) on their office computers and wanted to play it on the network.

I didn't really know the differences between IPX/SPX and TCP/IP at the time, and I lucked out somehow and checked the 'IPX/SPX' box on the network properties, and everything started working. Fastest hundred bucks I ever made, I probably drank it all within 2 hours of that.

He didn't want that being logged on our timesheets because it would be billed to the company.

Only reason I know what IPX/SPX is from playing LAN Tiberian Sun.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


movax posted:

Only reason I know what IPX/SPX is from playing LAN Tiberian Sun.

You haven't lived until you direct dialed your friend to play C&C.

IUG
Jul 14, 2007

Without me, there is no mission.
I am the mission!


phosdex posted:

These 2 sites were posted earlier:
https://diskprices.com/
https://shucks.top/

So should I just go the route of buying 4 WD Easystores and pulling the drives out? Or would that be a bad idea for a NAS?
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/wd-easystore-8tb-external-usb-3-0-hard-drive-black/6425302.p?skuId=6425302

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





H110Hawk posted:

You haven't lived until you direct dialed your friend to play C&C.

Direct dial Descent 1 shareware on a 386 over 9600 baud woo

Takes No Damage
Nov 20, 2004

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.




Grimey Drawer

IUG posted:

So should I just go the route of buying 4 WD Easystores and pulling the drives out? Or would that be a bad idea for a NAS?
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/wd-easystore-8tb-external-usb-3-0-hard-drive-black/6425302.p?skuId=6425302

As long as the drives themselves are good there ~shouldn't~ be any difference between a shuck'd drive and ones bought individually. I'm on an 8x8 TB pool with all shucked Easystores, no issues so far. If you go that route, just plug the drives into a PC first and run at least the quick SMART tests on them. Will take a few hours each but if they all pass and you don't find any SMR drives then you should be good.

phosdex
Dec 16, 2005




IUG posted:

So should I just go the route of buying 4 WD Easystores and pulling the drives out? Or would that be a bad idea for a NAS?
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/wd-easystore-8tb-external-usb-3-0-hard-drive-black/6425302.p?skuId=6425302

They work fine, you may have to tape off a pin or use y-splitters though.

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



IUG posted:

So should I just go the route of buying 4 WD Easystores and pulling the drives out? Or would that be a bad idea for a NAS?
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/wd-easystore-8tb-external-usb-3-0-hard-drive-black/6425302.p?skuId=6425302

That's what I did (well three easystores and two 8TB bulk drives off ebay that were $150). Been running that setup for over two years so far without trouble from the disks. I hope they last as long as the 2TB before them that were in service from 2011 until 2018-2019.

Rooted Vegetable
Jun 1, 2002



IUG posted:

So should I just go the route of buying 4 WD Easystores and pulling the drives out? Or would that be a bad idea for a NAS?
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/wd-easystore-8tb-external-usb-3-0-hard-drive-black/6425302.p?skuId=6425302

That's what a majority of people in this thread do for cheap drives for NAS/similar use

You've linked to the 8tb easy store which is well thought of in this regard.

IUG
Jul 14, 2007

Without me, there is no mission.
I am the mission!


Sweet. I just bought four, and looks like I'll have a weekend project for myself. (Not to mention backing up all my blurays onto them.)

Munkeymon
Aug 14, 2003

Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.





Can anyone recommend some tape? This stuff just slides right off the pins 🤨

Coating the pin in super glue seems to have worked but I'd prefer a covering I can see is in place if I have to move a drive around

Boner Wad
Nov 16, 2003


I used the same tape and it was fine and didn't slide anywhere.

Takes No Damage
Nov 20, 2004

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.




Grimey Drawer

I've never needed to do it myself, but

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W3-uOl4ruc

Enos Cabell
Nov 3, 2004




I pryed the pins off with an x-acto knife because I like living on the edge.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



You really want to throw a burn-in test at the disk before you mangle the drive if you don't intend to use kapton tape.
I have a USB SATA bridge which implements USB BOT that I use for this, but the trick is to avoid USB SATA bridges which implement USB IDE, as that means no S.M.A.R.T.
The best devices to get are UASP-capable.

fletcher
Jun 27, 2003

ken park is my favorite movie

Cybernetic Crumb

How do you get into the RAID configuration for a Supermicro X11SCL-iF ? In the BIOS I see SATA Mode Selection can be set to AHCI or RAID. After setting it to RAID and rebooting I was expecting some key combo to get into the RAID settings but I couldn't figure it out

Here's the link to the manual: https://www.supermicro.com/manuals/motherboard/X11/MNL-2088.pdf

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



If it's the fakeRAID provided by Intel that's being used, you can configure it using the 'Intel' metadata format documented in graid(8) in FreeBSD, if memory serves.

Otherwise, there's the Intel PCH RAID configuration utility documentation in a PDF.

EDIT: Why are you trying to use it over ZFS mirroring of some sort?

BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Mar 20, 2021

fletcher
Jun 27, 2003

ken park is my favorite movie

Cybernetic Crumb

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

If it's the fakeRAID provided by Intel that's being used, you can configure it using the 'Intel' metadata format documented in graid(8) in FreeBSD, if memory serves.

Otherwise, there's the Intel PCH RAID configuration utility documentation in a PDF.

EDIT: Why are you trying to use it over ZFS mirroring of some sort?

I don't actually need any redundancy on these drives, they won't be storing anything important and I'm not so concerned about availability. I just wanted two drives to show up as 1 big drive and thought RAID 0 with the onboard might be the easiest way to do that. I'm running Debian 10. Any suggestions for me?

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



You know me, I'm into BSD.

Maybe the Linux thread?

muskrat
Aug 15, 2004


How loud are the consumer NAS appliances such as QNAP / Synology? I don't have a server closet so it'll be in my living room, and I don't want to be hearing fans, etc. but I don't know what is actually inside these.

tuyop
Sep 14, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted


Fun Shoe

muskrat posted:

How loud are the consumer NAS appliances such as QNAP / Synology? I don't have a server closet so it'll be in my living room, and I don't want to be hearing fans, etc. but I don't know what is actually inside these.

I only have a two-disk one (DS218+) but you have some control over lights and fan speed. I originally had two 4tb WD Reds in mine and it lives in the living room and I couldnít hear it at all. Now one of the drives is 14tb and itís significantly louder, say like 40db vs 35 before, but not nearly as loud as a PS4 or the dishwasher in the kitchen. I donít really notice it anymore.

I bet the 8-disk models probably sound more like a quiet desktop with HDD crunching sounds.

AgentCow007
May 20, 2004
TITLE TEXT

muskrat posted:

How loud are the consumer NAS appliances such as QNAP / Synology? I don't have a server closet so it'll be in my living room, and I don't want to be hearing fans, etc. but I don't know what is actually inside these.

Synology itself is super quiet... drive noise depends on the drives and utilization. With WD Reds, it doesn't bother me in my bedroom... but some drives are drat loud.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



So long as you don't have a fan duty-cycling (ie. going between low speed and high speed because temperature curve is poorly configured), and don't have fans that themselves don't vary the sound they produce on a sine-wave pattern (some fans will do this, and once you hear it it's impossible to unhear), you get used to the white noise produced by these appliances incredibly quickly.

Minty Swagger
Sep 8, 2005

Ribbit Ribbit Real Good


BlankSystemDaemon posted:

So long as you don't have a fan duty-cycling (ie. going between low speed and high speed because temperature curve is poorly configured), and don't have fans that themselves don't vary the sound they produce on a sine-wave pattern (some fans will do this, and once you hear it it's impossible to unhear), you get used to the white noise produced by these appliances incredibly quickly.

I had a case fan on a desktop pc that was sort of loud accidentally assigned to the cpu temp with an aggressive setting and oh my god was it annoying. Had to fix that one to a hard "medium" setting as it was revving up and down every 2-3 seconds. Agree 100% if it's constant it's ignorable. If it isn't, it's maddening!

fletcher
Jun 27, 2003

ken park is my favorite movie

Cybernetic Crumb

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

You know me, I'm into BSD.

Maybe the Linux thread?

Ended up going with mdadm: https://wiki.debian.org/SoftwareRAID

Saukkis
May 16, 2003

Unless I'm on the inside curve pointing straight at oncoming traffic the high beams stay on and I laugh at your puny protest flashes.
I am Most Important Man. Most Important Man in the World.

fletcher posted:

I don't actually need any redundancy on these drives, they won't be storing anything important and I'm not so concerned about availability. I just wanted two drives to show up as 1 big drive and thought RAID 0 with the onboard might be the easiest way to do that. I'm running Debian 10. Any suggestions for me?

If you don't need the speed increase from RAID0, then the easiest way to achieve that is usually LVM. On the first disk create a 512+MB partition for /boot and another partition for the LVM, the second disk would have a single partition for LVM and add it to the same volume group. This also has the benefit that you can create separate logical volumes for stuff like /home, /opt, /var, etc and then increase their size as needed. And if you buy a new drive you can easily add it to the same volume group, not nearly as easy with RAID.

Saukkis fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Mar 21, 2021

Less Fat Luke
May 23, 2003

Just the tip!



Exciting Lemon

fletcher posted:

I don't actually need any redundancy on these drives, they won't be storing anything important and I'm not so concerned about availability. I just wanted two drives to show up as 1 big drive and thought RAID 0 with the onboard might be the easiest way to do that. I'm running Debian 10. Any suggestions for me?

MergerFS was built for exactly that. You can merge a bunch of drives so they look like one, and choose how new files are laid one when added to the pool. Additionally if you lose one of the drives only the files on that drive are gone.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



It's got a ton of implementation specific names including BIG arrays or SPAN arrays, but the generic term is disk concatenation.

In FreeBSD, it's implemented with the concat geom class, and administrated with gconcat(8).

KS
Jun 10, 2003


Outrageous Lumpwad

In Debian, just use LVM.

Elephanthead
Sep 11, 2008




Toilet Rascal

Does anyone want 6 136gb 15k sas drives? 3.5 inch. Iíll ship them cheapest snail mail rate. They are old but functional setup a 6 drive mirror lol.

Chumbawumba4ever97
Dec 31, 2000



https://www.newegg.com/wd-elements-14tb-black/p/N82E16822234411

60 bucks off with promo code

+7% money back with retailmenot

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.



Chumbawumba4ever97 posted:

https://www.newegg.com/wd-elements-14tb-black/p/N82E16822234411

60 bucks off with promo code

+7% money back with retailmenot

Ha, looks like it's already sold out.

Chumbawumba4ever97
Dec 31, 2000



Oh wow I posted really quickly too.

Bouchehog
Dec 19, 2002

The Campaign for Badger Rights

Apologies for the noobie question (and if this would be better placed in a backup thread and not a NAS one)

I have a QNAP TS-251+ which I've been running as a backup device and media server for my home network. I had two 3TB WD red drives in it (WD30EFRX-68EUZN0), one encrypted backing up data and one unencrypted with my music and films on it. I don't use RAID. One of the drives has failed - the NAS can't read it and it can't be read using a SATA>USB connection. The data I have 'lost' doesn't matter as it is backed up on my main pc (and another pc). I have purchased two 6TB Seagate Barracuda drives (ST6000DM003) to replace the broken and working existing drive. I would like to use the opportunity to completely restructure how I run the NAS.

I have been using QNAP's software QSync, which just sync the folder on the NAS and desktop PC. My main concern with this is that if I do something stupid and corrupt, delete a file, it will just get replicated on the NAS and there is no version history option.

I would like to rework my setup and wondered if you could all point me in the right direction. The various things I backup from my main PC are as follows:
  • Work files from OneDrive: I use MS OneDrive to sync my work files between my various pc/laptops/tablets. I am a trial lawyer. My files are almost exclusively word and excel documents and large pdf (50-300mb) files. Over a typical year I will generate 5GB of pdf and 20mb of word/excel files. My working pattern is such that I will work on a few client files each week, updating the pdf/word/excel file for that client regularly over that week and will then not touch those files again for months, if at all. Onedrive has a version history feature, which is great if I accidentally do something which mucks up the file (not that I have had to use this but I like the peace of mind). Is there any advantage to backing up the OneDrive to the NAS or am I find just relying on OneDrive?

  • Archived work files: At the end of the year I take all of the inactive files off OneDrive and put them into archive. I need to be able to access this archive quickly and remotely but do not need the files offline. I have been doing this using QSync but I am concerned that any error I create in a file will then simply be duplicated in the backup and so it is only currently protecting me against media failure. Is there a better way of doing this?

  • Personal files: I keep my personal files on Dropbox. Is there any point in backing this up given the version history feature of Dropbox?

  • Music: I have around 300GB of music, mostly stored in flac format. I mostly just back up the music to the NAS but I would ideally like to be able to stream it to Alexa (or my mobile whilst I'm out of the house). I have been using QSync to back these up but I am concerned about deleting/corrupting a file on my pc and this then syncing and destroying the backup on the NAS. Is there a better way of doing this?

  • Photos: I have 700GB of photos, a mixture of jpegs and 50mb NEF (RAW) files. My primary concern is to backup the photos, which are primarily stored on a local HD on my computer. I tend to sort through photos every so often, may tweak them in Lightroom (which creates a layer but doesn't save to the file itself unless you export to a new file with the adjustments, usually in jpeg) but once they're 'processed' I am unlikely to change the file again. I do need to access the photos from outside my home on occasion, but only do so rarely. It would also be nice to be able to access them from my TV. I've been using QSync but have the same concern as above.

  • Video: I have video which I process on my pc and then backup on my NAS 300GB or so. I would like to be able to steam these to my TV and to access them remotely. This is mostly short HD mp4 videos edited from a GoPro and the larger uncut footage (rarely over 600mb) but there are some longer videos in mp4 or avi container formats. I've been using QSync but have the same concern as above.

Devian666
Aug 19, 2008

Take some advice Chris.



Fun Shoe

Bouchehog posted:

Apologies for the noobie question (and if this would be better placed in a backup thread and not a NAS one)

I have a QNAP TS-251+ which I've been running as a backup device and media server for my home network. I had two 3TB WD red drives in it (WD30EFRX-68EUZN0), one encrypted backing up data and one unencrypted with my music and films on it. I don't use RAID. One of the drives has failed - the NAS can't read it and it can't be read using a SATA>USB connection. The data I have 'lost' doesn't matter as it is backed up on my main pc (and another pc). I have purchased two 6TB Seagate Barracuda drives (ST6000DM003) to replace the broken and working existing drive. I would like to use the opportunity to completely restructure how I run the NAS.

I have been using QNAP's software QSync, which just sync the folder on the NAS and desktop PC. My main concern with this is that if I do something stupid and corrupt, delete a file, it will just get replicated on the NAS and there is no version history option.

I would like to rework my setup and wondered if you could all point me in the right direction. The various things I backup from my main PC are as follows:
  • Work files from OneDrive: I use MS OneDrive to sync my work files between my various pc/laptops/tablets. I am a trial lawyer. My files are almost exclusively word and excel documents and large pdf (50-300mb) files. Over a typical year I will generate 5GB of pdf and 20mb of word/excel files. My working pattern is such that I will work on a few client files each week, updating the pdf/word/excel file for that client regularly over that week and will then not touch those files again for months, if at all. Onedrive has a version history feature, which is great if I accidentally do something which mucks up the file (not that I have had to use this but I like the peace of mind). Is there any advantage to backing up the OneDrive to the NAS or am I find just relying on OneDrive?

  • Archived work files: At the end of the year I take all of the inactive files off OneDrive and put them into archive. I need to be able to access this archive quickly and remotely but do not need the files offline. I have been doing this using QSync but I am concerned that any error I create in a file will then simply be duplicated in the backup and so it is only currently protecting me against media failure. Is there a better way of doing this?

  • Personal files: I keep my personal files on Dropbox. Is there any point in backing this up given the version history feature of Dropbox?

  • Music: I have around 300GB of music, mostly stored in flac format. I mostly just back up the music to the NAS but I would ideally like to be able to stream it to Alexa (or my mobile whilst I'm out of the house). I have been using QSync to back these up but I am concerned about deleting/corrupting a file on my pc and this then syncing and destroying the backup on the NAS. Is there a better way of doing this?

  • Photos: I have 700GB of photos, a mixture of jpegs and 50mb NEF (RAW) files. My primary concern is to backup the photos, which are primarily stored on a local HD on my computer. I tend to sort through photos every so often, may tweak them in Lightroom (which creates a layer but doesn't save to the file itself unless you export to a new file with the adjustments, usually in jpeg) but once they're 'processed' I am unlikely to change the file again. I do need to access the photos from outside my home on occasion, but only do so rarely. It would also be nice to be able to access them from my TV. I've been using QSync but have the same concern as above.

  • Video: I have video which I process on my pc and then backup on my NAS 300GB or so. I would like to be able to steam these to my TV and to access them remotely. This is mostly short HD mp4 videos edited from a GoPro and the larger uncut footage (rarely over 600mb) but there are some longer videos in mp4 or avi container formats. I've been using QSync but have the same concern as above.

Good practice for backups is the 3-2-1 system. 3 copies of the data, 2 local, and 1 offsite.

So for the onedrive files a second local copy could be a good idea. You can use HBS 3 Hybrid Backup Sync to run a regular duplication process.

Personal files with one local copy and one copy on the dropbox server might benefit from a second local copy depending on how important you consider those files are.

Music, video and photos with qsync gives you at least 2 local copies. Consider the house fire scenario where the two local copies could be lost; would you miss those files? If so an offsite backup would be worthwhile. For streaming QNAP media steaming add on will provide local streaming to you network via DLNA or other formats. Remote access can be done through myQNAPcloud link which would help with streaming to your mobile while away from home.

I noticed you have some concerns with files being deleted. The simple way to deal with this (the lazy way I do it) is to make use of the recycle bin in the web interface. If you right click the recycle bin and click settings you can adjust the retention parameters. My is set for autodelete after 180 days which should be enough for recovery. You might find you have quite a few files or file versions in the QNAP's recycle bin if you work from the server. The other option is running snapshots of the drive which would help for files you change regularly but daily duplication should deal with most of the risk without the hassle of configuring snapshots.

With respect to archiving files this is typically done to avoid running out of storage space. Do you need to archive the files at all? If onedrive space is limited you could instead have the files on your computer, server and use an external backup site instead.

Devian666 fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Mar 26, 2021

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Flipperwaldt
Nov 11, 2011

Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?



As a follow-up, I did put the ssd in the ds115j and I am very pleasantly surprised how it seems to have significantly speeded up things I would have thought were constricted by the piddly arm processor or the 256mb of ram. Haven't paid much notice to transfer speeds, but configuring and installing packages went almost bearably fast and the thing where the nas would occasionally fail to announce itself on the network or time out when accessed seems to be gone, which is great.

I had to enable trim manually, which is a per volume setting and only works for volumes consisting entirely of ssds, which isn't a problem in a single drive enclosure. Having the sabrent drive bay adapter bracket was a good thing. Screw holes weren't super accurate, but workable. Compared to even the modest humming of a single hard drive, absolute silence is splendid.

The nine year old drive that was used for a weekly mirror of the nas miraculously came good and is replaced with a new wd blue, which on account of being only 1TB is apparently cmr (not that it would matter much here).

All in all a good experience, thanks again for the help that was offered here.

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