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The Milkman
Jun 22, 2003

No one here is alone,
satellites in every home


Nitrousoxide posted:

It could have been a cable got jostled loose. Double check them. That's the most likely cause of seemingly random widespread errors in one drive that resolve themselves completely with no follow up checks confirm.

Yeah that was my intuition thanks for seconding. Reseated the cables just to be sure. Def didnít want to have to replace a drive right now with prices going up

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IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Yeah, I had errors like that when my WD30EFRX drives would apparently poo poo the whole SAS bus when under load. Nothing in SMART, cleared upon a reboot / rescrub, etc.

gregday
May 23, 2003


Migrating from a DS1019+ to an RS2418+ could not have been easier. Just move the drives, it asks if I want to migrate. 5 minutes later itís up with all users, settings, ssh keys, data, intact. All I had to do was recreate the eth bond to include the 2 extra interfaces. Seriously impressed.

Biowarfare
Nov 8, 2010

I JUST WISH THIS WAS A PONY SO I COULD JERK IT WHILE I PLAY WOW

Managed to find two easystores at Best Buy (now with a max purchase limit of 1 per person??). Both turned out to be whitelabel air filled, bit disappointed.

ROJO
Jan 14, 2006





Oven Wrangler

So, I have an RS815 with 8TB disks in RAID 5 (which because of the volume size limits of the RS815, actually only gives me the capacity of two of those disks). I am looking to upgrade to either a RS1221+ or a DS1821+ (depending on whether I want to pay a $350 premium for rackmount and *checks notes* fewer features ).

I want to expand out my array to 8x 8 TB in RAID 6 or SHR2. In anticipation of doing this, I purchased 4 of the 8TB easystores on sale and will shuck them for the 4 extra drives. Because my existing volume is in RAID 5, and on an older filesystem (I want to move to BTRFS) - is my best way to make this transition:

1) Bring up the new NAS with the 4 new drives in it, build out a RAID 6 BTRFS volume, and copy all my data over from the RS815 (which will be fine from a space standpoint because I am limited to two drives of capacity currently in the RS815).
2) Once all my data is copied over, pull a drive out of the old RS815 one at a time, put it in the new NAS, and expand the array, until all disks are transitioned?

Also, as a more specific topic, I use the synology cloudsync to backup the data I truly care about (~1TB) to a B2 bucket. Do I have any hope of transitioning that seamlessly to the new NAS without doing a full re-upload? It wouldn't be the end of the world if I had to, but it would use almost a month of data cap to do so (Comcast ). It would be great if, assuming the file structure on the new NAS is identical (it would be), I can just point it to the same B2 bucket and it would realize everything is identical. Or will it see everything as a new 'version' of the existing files, and want to upload the new copies?

ROJO fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Apr 29, 2021

rufius
Feb 27, 2011

Clear alcohols are for rich women on diets.


For any QNAP users (like me), here's a fun one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26986272

Basically - someone named Walter Shao at QNAP hard coded walter:walter in a bunch of places in the backup software (HybridBackup).

An article with links to CVE's: https://www.helpnetsecurity.com/2021/04/26/qnap-nas-ransomware/

I wasn't affected, but I also don't expose mine to the internet directly.

Thwomp
Apr 9, 2003

BA-DUHHH



Grimey Drawer

Yeah, itís certainly a notgreatbob.gif situation.

They got patches and firmware updates out but not before a bunch of people got their stuff encrypted.

Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017




Hi, I am trying to find a PCIE SATA controller. I would like +4 ports. It is for non-commercial purposes etc

Is there a go-to brand or anything? thank you

bobfather
Sep 20, 2001

I will analyze your nervous system for beer money

Statutory Ape posted:

Hi, I am trying to find a PCIE SATA controller. I would like +4 ports. It is for non-commercial purposes etc

Is there a go-to brand or anything? thank you

I vote Dell Perc H200 or H310 and then flash it to IT mode.

If you have a free M.2 slot, this thing also looks neat: https://www.amazon.com/Internal-Non-Raid-Adapter-Desktop-Support/dp/B07T3RMFFT/

Crunchy Black
Oct 24, 2017

CASTOR: Uh, it was all fine and you don't remember?
VINDMAN: No, it was bad and I do remember.




gently caress's sake we have like 100+ older QNAPs in prod

goddamnit.

rufius
Feb 27, 2011

Clear alcohols are for rich women on diets.


Crunchy Black posted:

gently caress's sake we have like 100+ older QNAPs in prod

goddamnit.

I mean itís bad, donít get me wrong. But itís not like this is the first major bug of its kind in this kind of software.

It just underscores the importance of not directly exposing a device that wasnít explicitly designed to sit on the public internet.

Near as I can tell, the people getting owned had theirs exposed somehow, whether directly or via UPnP.

Axe-man
Apr 16, 2005

The product of hundreds of hours of scientific investigation and research.

The perfect meatball.


Clapping Larry

Another thing I have seen is that a computer on the network was compromised and then sent out scripts that exposed the NAS to the internet after. Might be a good idea to lock down your network and do a virus check on all those computers that are a bit questionable *cough*kids*coughs*.

rufius
Feb 27, 2011

Clear alcohols are for rich women on diets.


Axe-man posted:

Another thing I have seen is that a computer on the network was compromised and then sent out scripts that exposed the NAS to the internet after. Might be a good idea to lock down your network and do a virus check on all those computers that are a bit questionable *cough*kids*coughs*.

That still sounds like it violates my assertion. That implies that the device has a public IP and just happens to have been configured to not expose common services.

Iíd say the only safe way to have an appliance like that, QNAP or not, is private routing only. If you need access off network, setup a VPN.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007




bobfather posted:

I vote Dell Perc H200 or H310 and then flash it to IT mode.

If you have a free M.2 slot, this thing also looks neat: https://www.amazon.com/Internal-Non-Raid-Adapter-Desktop-Support/dp/B07T3RMFFT/

I have a H310 and the flash was pretty easy and itís very awesome.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


rufius posted:

That still sounds like it violates my assertion. That implies that the device has a public IP and just happens to have been configured to not expose common services.

Iíd say the only safe way to have an appliance like that, QNAP or not, is private routing only. If you need access off network, setup a VPN.

Routers come with some pretty bizarre defaults (UPnP for example) that allow for this sort of thing. I know that xbox and playstation or whatever require it to host games, but they shouldn't, they should broker games remotely especially if you have to pay to play online. Router manufacturers should start clamping down on this, especially with ip6 becoming a default option any decade now. Or ISPs should set a deadline on "no open ports for residential internet" and enforce it. Make people pay extra to open a port, it will make the internet safer.

rufius
Feb 27, 2011

Clear alcohols are for rich women on diets.


H110Hawk posted:

Routers come with some pretty bizarre defaults (UPnP for example) that allow for this sort of thing. I know that xbox and playstation or whatever require it to host games, but they shouldn't, they should broker games remotely especially if you have to pay to play online. Router manufacturers should start clamping down on this, especially with ip6 becoming a default option any decade now. Or ISPs should set a deadline on "no open ports for residential internet" and enforce it. Make people pay extra to open a port, it will make the internet safer.

Oh I know. Thatís why I brought up UPnP I my previous post.

Either way - UPnP is a Bad Thing (tm).

I discovered my old router had UPnP when my QNAP told me there were a bunch of failed authentications.

I was irate at both QNAP and the router manufacturer for doing UPnP at all.

w00tmonger
Mar 9, 2011

F-F-FRIDAY NIGHT MOTHERFUCKERS


rufius posted:

For any QNAP users (like me), here's a fun one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26986272

Basically - someone named Walter Shao at QNAP hard coded walter:walter in a bunch of places in the backup software (HybridBackup).

An article with links to CVE's: https://www.helpnetsecurity.com/2021/04/26/qnap-nas-ransomware/

I wasn't affected, but I also don't expose mine to the internet directly.

So that's what the gently caress it was. God damnit.

I got in touch with a white hat on twitter who managed to get me a decryption code

Axe-man
Apr 16, 2005

The product of hundreds of hours of scientific investigation and research.

The perfect meatball.


Clapping Larry

I will say as an aside, that the synology devices are tough little buggers, I've never seen them cracked by software directly. It is always some weak password/other computer on the network compromised.

Walter really hurt Qnap bad for this!

SamDabbers
May 26, 2003




H110Hawk posted:

Routers come with some pretty bizarre defaults (UPnP for example) that allow for this sort of thing. I know that xbox and playstation or whatever require it to host games, but they shouldn't, they should broker games remotely especially if you have to pay to play online. Router manufacturers should start clamping down on this, especially with ip6 becoming a default option any decade now. Or ISPs should set a deadline on "no open ports for residential internet" and enforce it. Make people pay extra to open a port, it will make the internet safer.

Yes disable UPnP by default, yes to connection brokering by default for the paid gaming service, no to the rest of it.

NAT != firewall and ports still need to be "opened" with IPv6 for peer to peer traffic to work.

The ability to open ports is critical to the end-to-end and peer-to-peer nature of the internet and definitely should not be gated behind a more expensive business subscription. Don't encourage greedy ISPs.

Crunchy Black
Oct 24, 2017

CASTOR: Uh, it was all fine and you don't remember?
VINDMAN: No, it was bad and I do remember.




SamDabbers posted:

Yes disable UPnP by default, yes to connection brokering by default for the paid gaming service, no to the rest of it.

NAT != firewall and ports still need to be "opened" with IPv6 for peer to peer traffic to work.

The ability to open ports is critical to the end-to-end and peer-to-peer nature of the internet and definitely should not be gated behind a more expensive business subscription. Don't encourage greedy ISPs.

Yeah I'm inclined to agree. Don't hinder people who know what they're doing. You already see this happening with ex., xfinity and the like offering "security" gateways as a default part of service.

Wiggly Wayne DDS
Sep 11, 2010





Axe-man posted:

I will say as an aside, that the synology devices are tough little buggers, I've never seen them cracked by software directly. It is always some weak password/other computer on the network compromised.
uh... https://www.synology.com/en-global/security/advisory

https://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/404187

quote:

Synology NAS servers contain insecure default credentials

Synology NAS servers DS107, firmware version 3.1-1639 and prior, and DS116, DS213, firmware versions prior to 5.2-5644-1, use non-random default credentials of: guest:(blank) and admin:(blank) . A remote network attacker can gain privileged access to a vulnerable device.

Axe-man
Apr 16, 2005

The product of hundreds of hours of scientific investigation and research.

The perfect meatball.


Clapping Larry

"Synology NAS servers DS107, DS116, and DS213, use default credentials."
That is over 10 year old except for the DS116 which is only 6

"Firmware versions prior to 5.2-5644-1"

That firmware is all over 10 years old, for the 3.1 and the 5.2 is from (2015-05-12)

So yeah, they did back in the day. Looks like they patched out the version too in like a week or so.

Not saying they are perfect but it appears they learned that lesson.

Wiggly Wayne DDS
Sep 11, 2010





Axe-man posted:

"Synology NAS servers DS107, DS116, and DS213, use default credentials."
That is over 10 year old except for the DS116 which is only 6

"Firmware versions prior to 5.2-5644-1"

That firmware is all over 10 years old, for the 3.1 and the 5.2 is from (2015-05-12)

So yeah, they did back in the day. Looks like they patched out the version too in like a week or so.

Not saying they are perfect but it appears they learned that lesson.
you were claiming

Axe-man posted:

I will say as an aside, that the synology devices are tough little buggers, I've never seen them cracked by software directly. It is always some weak password/other computer on the network compromised.
just focusing on hard-coded credentials here's two more that jump to mind:
2012 telnet hard-coded credentials generated via date: https://wrgms.com/synologys-secret-telnet-password/
2014 vpn hard-coded root credentials: https://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/534284

both the main vendors need to up their game, but they've also not had a lot of focus by the general security community really so consider all the vulns the tip of the iceberg

Axe-man
Apr 16, 2005

The product of hundreds of hours of scientific investigation and research.

The perfect meatball.


Clapping Larry

That helps, I've only been managing Synology since 2018

I do think that they have made some bad choices, and need to update some of their open source software they are using rebranded.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


Statutory Ape posted:

Hi, I am trying to find a PCIE SATA controller. I would like +4 ports. It is for non-commercial purposes etc

Is there a go-to brand or anything? thank you

The short answer is the go-to is the IBM M1015 and you flash the firmware to "IT mode"/"JBOD mode" (which means it works as a normal controller instead of doing onboard RAID). It's an 8-port internal card and is widely used in the homelab market. The Dell H2xx / H3xx are good too but I don't know that specific lineup, they probably use LSI chipsets (a brand) just like the IBM and as long as they can be flashed to IT mode / JBOD mode they're fine.

In general you have a choice between "consumer" SATA controllers and "enterprise" SAS controllers. You can always put SATA devices on SAS hardware but not the other way around. In general LSI chipsets dominate the enterprise market so LSI is generally the best supported across all platforms, they will Just Work. There are some other "second-tier" brands like Marvell that will generally work, and some random ones that who knows, but LSI is the standard and it basically doesn't cost any more to get one of those.

The big differentiation is going to be the PCIe connectivity and the cabling standard. PCIe 3.0 can run better on a second or third slot than a 2.0 device (and obviously fall back seamlessly to 2.0 or 1.0 if that's all your computer supports). But, if you're not hammering all your disks at once, you're not going to max it out anyway, 2.0x4 is still 250 MB/s which is basically 2 spinning disks at full throughput. Also, most cards will have a cable that connects four hard drives at once, it'll probably be either Mini-SAS (SFF-8087) or Mini-SAS HD (SFF-8643). You can get an "octopus" cable that break it out to 4 standard SATA connectors, but you need to know which you have (and cables are not cheap, that's the one downside, you can probably expect to pay $20-50 for a cable). Also, some cards have external connectors (for connecting disk shelves), some have internal, and some have some of each, so obviously look at what you're buying vs what you want.

I wonder how bad things have gotten with the new crypto that uses storage space though, that may have tightened up the market for storage controllers and disks quite a bit.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Apr 30, 2021

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007




H310 is LSI and easily flashable to IT mode as its popular, so there is a ton of easy to use guides.

I use 2x SAS> 4x SATA breakouts and they work really well.

They get hot, so re-pasting and buying a little 20mm fan is helpful. You just wedge screws into the passive heat sink.



I have mine vertical on a riser so it doesnít choke airflow to my GPU.

H210 vs H310 is just port orientation. IIRC back edge of card vs the side.

Pilfered Pallbearers fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Apr 30, 2021

phosdex
Dec 16, 2005




Is that a little 20mm Noctua? I didn't know they made small fans.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007




phosdex posted:

Is that a little 20mm Noctua? I didn't know they made small fans.

It is!

Well actually itís a 40mmx10mm cause Iím an idiot.

Noctua NF-A4x10 FLX, Premium Quiet Fan, 3-Pin (40x10mm, Brown) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009NQLT0M/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_05SXJ4DE00MM4AZENY34?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT



The mounting looks good.

I shoved a E3-1275 into my gen 8 hp microserver a few years back. Ended up attaching a 40mm fan to the passive heatsink via zip ties through the fins. Holds well and cools it enough, but looks like poo poo.

I actually am tearing it down, I'll try and snap a picture of it.

Saukkis
May 16, 2003

Unless I'm on the inside curve pointing straight at oncoming traffic the high beams stay on and I laugh at your puny protest flashes.
I am Most Important Man. Most Important Man in the World.

Zipties can work really well. This GTX560 served me years like this. I had forgotten I also used those screws to position it a bit up from the heatsink.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Takes No Damage
Nov 20, 2004

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.




Grimey Drawer

Hm is there a way to poll the temp of your LSI from the console, specifically FreeNAS? I'm pretty sure I'm sitting with the default passive heatsink on mine, but it is the only card in there so it has a fair bit of room around it, and when I put my 2nd pool of drives I ordered another set of case fans for all of the optional mounts so there's like 6 in there now, airflow ~should~ be pretty good all around.

Storm One
Jan 12, 2011


Floss Finder

Can anyone link me to an enclosure or IDE to USB adaptor that would successfully plug this exact model of IDE drive to my PC (running Linux but I suppose that wouldn't matter)?

I salvaged the drive from my broken DAP and my 2.5"/3.5" IDE to USB 3.0 converter doesn't fit, the connectors are female on both HDD and adaptor.

Less Fat Luke
May 23, 2003

Just the tip!



Exciting Lemon

Takes No Damage posted:

Hm is there a way to poll the temp of your LSI from the console, specifically FreeNAS? I'm pretty sure I'm sitting with the default passive heatsink on mine, but it is the only card in there so it has a fair bit of room around it, and when I put my 2nd pool of drives I ordered another set of case fans for all of the optional mounts so there's like 6 in there now, airflow ~should~ be pretty good all around.

I don't believe any of them have a temperature sensor you can access but if you're using the drives and not getting periodic bus resets then it's fine.

Hughlander
May 11, 2005



Takes No Damage posted:

Hm is there a way to poll the temp of your LSI from the console, specifically FreeNAS? I'm pretty sure I'm sitting with the default passive heatsink on mine, but it is the only card in there so it has a fair bit of room around it, and when I put my 2nd pool of drives I ordered another set of case fans for all of the optional mounts so there's like 6 in there now, airflow ~should~ be pretty good all around.

Looks like you want https://support.siliconmechanics.com/portal/en/kb/articles/storcli-for-freebsd-and-other-operating-systems

Flipperwaldt
Nov 11, 2011

Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?



Storm One posted:

Can anyone link me to an enclosure or IDE to USB adaptor that would successfully plug this exact model of IDE drive to my PC (running Linux but I suppose that wouldn't matter)?

I salvaged the drive from my broken DAP and my 2.5"/3.5" IDE to USB 3.0 converter doesn't fit, the connectors are female on both HDD and adaptor.
Maybe you just need an adapter like this? I wasn't aware of the variant your drive came in, so don't just take my word for it though.

E: wow yeah way off the mark here

Flipperwaldt fucked around with this message at 19:11 on May 2, 2021

Helter Skelter
Feb 10, 2004

BEARD OF HAVOC



Storm One posted:

Can anyone link me to an enclosure or IDE to USB adaptor that would successfully plug this exact model of IDE drive to my PC (running Linux but I suppose that wouldn't matter)?

I salvaged the drive from my broken DAP and my 2.5"/3.5" IDE to USB 3.0 converter doesn't fit, the connectors are female on both HDD and adaptor.

I think you want something like this and then go SATA to USB.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





That looks like it actually uses a CompactFlash connector, though it's much larger than any of the old CF Microdrives.

Helter Skelter
Feb 10, 2004

BEARD OF HAVOC



I dug for a better picture of the connector end and it looks like it's 50 pin IDE (not quite CF but close), so more something like this

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





EC posted:

I have a dumb question about Synology boxes I can't seem to find an answer to. I'm looking at buying the 8 bay unit, but can't find any 12tb drives that aren't pricey as heck. If I start with 3x 10tb drives now, and add 12tb drives later, will I be able to use the extra 2tb of storage in the pool? This page seems to imply it will, but I figured I'd check.

My plan is to start with 3 drives and add one or two a month until the server is full.

FYI synology's customer support is amazing and they can walk you through any scenario, usually without ever waiting on hold

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Storm One
Jan 12, 2011


Floss Finder

Helter Skelter posted:

I dug for a better picture of the connector end and it looks like it's 50 pin IDE (not quite CF but close), so more something like this

Thanks, I've just checked and it is a 50 pin connector indeed, if my eyes didn't deceive me

Never crossed my mind that it could be a different pinout than 2.5" IDE despite the drive itself being clearly smaller.

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