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Warbird
May 23, 2012

Burn the 'dawgs
Kill the Yellowjackets
Purge the Tiger
It is better to die for Bama than to live for yourself


Fun Shoe

I believe so, yes. I was planning on doing a similar setup once I get a few more HDDs in.

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Rooted Vegetable
Jun 1, 2002



Amazon Canada has a 14TB WD My book for CAD$319

That's $22.78571428 per terabyte.
(Best I've ever seen in Canada was the $130 8TB WD Elements at $16.25/TB)

Warbird
May 23, 2012

Burn the 'dawgs
Kill the Yellowjackets
Purge the Tiger
It is better to die for Bama than to live for yourself


Fun Shoe

Is $16 USD/Tb still the ideal for drives? Sorry, donít know the Canook number off the top of my head.

Roadie
Jun 30, 2013


Are there any 6- or (preferably) 8-bay Synology units that (a) support SHR and (b) are able to transcode 1080P for Plex (via QuickSync or just having a beefy-enough CPU)? I've been going through their product listings but there are so many random variants on all the details that it's hard to be sure of anything.

Edit: I'd probably have a cheaper time running Plex on a separate NUC or something, but I'm hoping to reduce the total number of separate boxes I have.

Roadie fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Oct 26, 2020

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



Does anyone know of a NAS that might only use like, a pair or trio of 2.5" drives? Trying to fit everything into a 4-inch-wide wallbox is harder than I thought it would be.

Tornhelm
Jul 26, 2008



Considering the limitations you've given you'll probably have to look at going the DIY route with something like a Raspberry Pi running OpenMediaVault and a couple of external hdd's or a raid enclosure plugged into it.

Brain Issues
Dec 16, 2004

lol

Roadie posted:

Are there any 6- or (preferably) 8-bay Synology units that (a) support SHR and (b) are able to transcode 1080P for Plex (via QuickSync or just having a beefy-enough CPU)? I've been going through their product listings but there are so many random variants on all the details that it's hard to be sure of anything.

Edit: I'd probably have a cheaper time running Plex on a separate NUC or something, but I'm hoping to reduce the total number of separate boxes I have.

Yeah, you're better off running Plex Server from a machine with a more powerful CPU or GPU. I tried to run it from my DS1618+ but it just didn't cut it for transcoding.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

"You are the best poster... do not let anyone say otherwise."


Warbird posted:

I believe so, yes. I was planning on doing a similar setup once I get a few more HDDs in.
That's good news! Unfortunately someone outbid be at the last moment by like 40% so that'll have to wait.

BabyFur Denny
Mar 18, 2003


Brain Issues posted:

Yeah, you're better off running Plex Server from a machine with a more powerful CPU or GPU. I tried to run it from my DS1618+ but it just didn't cut it for transcoding.

What is transcoding for anyway? I completely disabled it and just use DirectPlay for everything and all my devices handle it just fine.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

BabyFur Denny posted:

What is transcoding for anyway? I completely disabled it and just use DirectPlay for everything and all my devices handle it just fine.

It's where the Plex server does and format or resolution shifting because the file is in a format / resolution that's incompatible with whatever the device is. Biggest use would be if you've got a bunch of 4k videos but only want to stream them at 1080p or lower to a device outside your home network (like a phone), or if you've got H265 files and a device that's a little older and doesn't support that.

If all you're doing is streaming in-home to modern devices, you probably won't need transcoding very often.

BabyFur Denny
Mar 18, 2003


DrDork posted:

It's where the Plex server does and format or resolution shifting because the file is in a format / resolution that's incompatible with whatever the device is. Biggest use would be if you've got a bunch of 4k videos but only want to stream them at 1080p or lower to a device outside your home network (like a phone), or if you've got H265 files and a device that's a little older and doesn't support that.

If all you're doing is streaming in-home to modern devices, you probably won't need transcoding very often.

Hmm I stream 4k to my mobile device and gf's apartment without issues. 4k is what, like 50mb/s? Should be easy to handle by almost anything.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

BabyFur Denny posted:

Hmm I stream 4k to my mobile device and gf's apartment without issues. 4k is what, like 50mb/s? Should be easy to handle by almost anything.

Something like that. If you've got some higher end 100+Mbps upload speed, you should be fine.

Just remember that the average uplink speed in the US is like...10Mbps, so it's simply not an option for a lot of people.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

Transcoding made more sense several years ago when mobile devices had worse decoding hardware options than they do today. These days I only see transcoding fire up when my 1080p Apple TV tries to play 2160p video. Iíve been holding out on a 4K Apple TV because itís not an urgent purchase but itís kind of annoying waiting for video to buffer. However, weirdly / exotically encoded video will be needing transcoding always. It mostly matters if you have a niche source of media like an anime habit or obscure old horror movies literally from directors in their parentsí basements.

But if you ever need transcoding youíll want it to be as fast as possible. Iíll be swapping my 3900x over to be my server later for this reason.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

necrobobsledder posted:

Transcoding made more sense several years ago when mobile devices had worse decoding hardware options than they do today. These days I only see transcoding fire up when my 1080p Apple TV tries to play 2160p video.

Yeah, same. I've got a few friends who still have the older Firesticks that are 1080p only, so those'll get anything >1080p transcoded, same with H265 since they don't support it at all. Transcoding a single 1080p H265 stream takes like half the available power of my 1650v3, so you definitely don't want to be doing that on some low-wattage SoC.

But as said, if you've got modern devices that can support 4k / H265 natively, you aren't likely to run into it these days.

Brain Issues
Dec 16, 2004

lol

DrDork posted:

Something like that. If you've got some higher end 100+Mbps upload speed, you should be fine.

Just remember that the average uplink speed in the US is like...10Mbps, so it's simply not an option for a lot of people.

This is why I need transcoding, and I also share my Plex library with ~10 other people. Comcast "Gigabit" in my area is 1Gigabit down, but only 40Mbit up.

Also - the Plex client default setting on almost every device I've seen has the default bitrate for remote streams set to 4Mbit 720p. So, unless I tell everyone to change their settings, it transcodes almost everything in my library because it's what my users client is requesting.

Brain Issues fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Oct 26, 2020

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



SwissArmyDruid posted:

Does anyone know of a NAS that might only use like, a pair or trio of 2.5" drives? Trying to fit everything into a 4-inch-wide wallbox is harder than I thought it would be.

https://wiki.radxa.com/Dual_Quad_SATA_HAT

this thing'll turn a raspberry pi into a 4 drive NAS and it'll probably fit in your wallbox - the case is pretty cool, too.

Comatoast
Aug 1, 2003


What about an intel nuc or asrock x300? The latter can take two nvme ssd and two 2.5" drives, the slim kind only, no fatties allowed.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





SwissArmyDruid posted:

Does anyone know of a NAS that might only use like, a pair or trio of 2.5" drives? Trying to fit everything into a 4-inch-wide wallbox is harder than I thought it would be.

If you dig through my post history in this thread I recently linked to a device that does this, it might be 4.5" but I think it you partly disassemble it, it might fit, it has four drive bays

Roadie
Jun 30, 2013


DrDork posted:

Something like that. If you've got some higher end 100+Mbps upload speed, you should be fine.

Just remember that the average uplink speed in the US is like...10Mbps, so it's simply not an option for a lot of people.

Mine caps out at about 25Mbps and I'm subject to Comcast's 1.2TB/month data cap (for both directions), too.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


SwissArmyDruid posted:

Does anyone know of a NAS that might only use like, a pair or trio of 2.5" drives? Trying to fit everything into a 4-inch-wide wallbox is harder than I thought it would be.

Spinners or ssd? If they're SSD's just command strip those suckers in place. HDD's you need to be wary of the breather hole and make sure there is a little more airflow.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Roadie posted:

Mine caps out at about 25Mbps and I'm subject to Comcast's 1.2TB/month data cap (for both directions), too.

And this is why I giggle every time Comcast sends me a mailer offering me "super fast" 100Mbps internet....to my condo with uncapped symmetric 1Gbps FIOS.

e; I go wayyy over 1.2TB every month, as it turns out.

DrDork fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Oct 26, 2020

BurgerQuest
Mar 17, 2009



On the plex Tangent, I keep my 4k stuff in a separate library that I don't bother sharing to remote users (about 15 here). My upload is only 40mbps and my users vary from someone using a PS3 to most using an older 1080p smart TV with the App.

To be honest even with a 4k OLED the amount of content I see value in 4k in is very small for me outside really well done re-scans. Keeping an extra 1080/x264 copy of something just seems the easiest route.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Is there a reason you keep an entirely separate library instead of letting Plex do Media Optimizer, which'll create a 1080p/x264/whatever you tell it to version of your 4k stuff?

BurgerQuest
Mar 17, 2009



Mostly because I generally already have 1080p copies of content I eventually get in 4k when it gets a re-release, but that would certainly be another option for low power servers to build up over time if your library is mostly 4k now.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Yeah, just seemed like an easier way of doing it instead of hand-managing stuff. But whatever works for you!

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


BurgerQuest posted:

Mostly because I generally already have 1080p copies of content I eventually get in 4k when it gets a re-release, but that would certainly be another option for low power servers to build up over time if your library is mostly 4k now.

This is what I am currently doing. 1080p for the masses, 4k once I get some fiber upload speed. Separate library for home use.

tuyop
Sep 14, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted


Fun Shoe

I got a plex pass (the lifetime membership is like $160CAD, way cheaper than a NUC) which lets hardware transcoding do its thing. Synology DS218+ handles h265 1080p to whatever my clients demand without breaking 30% processor usage.

BabyFur Denny
Mar 18, 2003


tuyop posted:

I got a plex pass (the lifetime membership is like $160CAD, way cheaper than a NUC) which lets hardware transcoding do its thing. Synology DS218+ handles h265 1080p to whatever my clients demand without breaking 30% processor usage.

So transcoding 4k would probably be too much for your machine?

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

BabyFur Denny posted:

So transcoding 4k would probably be too much for your machine?

Iffy, and depends on format. In general you'll need something beefier than the efficiency-minded CPU/SOCs they shove in consumer NAS devices for 4k transcoding.

Here's a good chart for reference of the various NAS's Plex abilities: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...#gid=1274624273

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


Transcoding 4k down to 1080 is rough in a CPU. More than 3-4 streams is gonna cripple a modern high end Ryzen.

If you gotta do that, for sure get Plex pass and a GPU.

Here is a good chart to compare. The consumer cards (GTX/RTX) are crippled to 3 streams unless you do some hacks.

https://www.elpamsoft.com/?p=Plex-Hardware-Transcoding

admiraldennis
Jul 22, 2003

I am the stone that builder refused
I am the visual
The inspiration
That made lady sing the blues


BabyFur Denny posted:

Hmm I stream 4k to my mobile device and gf's apartment without issues. 4k is what, like 50mb/s? Should be easy to handle by almost anything.

You'd think that, but here I am with my "the fastest they offer" "Gigabit" cable connection with.... 25Mbps upstream.

tuyop
Sep 14, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted


Fun Shoe

BabyFur Denny posted:

So transcoding 4k would probably be too much for your machine?

Sounds like it could do it but not with HDR? I donít know Iíll have to give some files a test, but it sounds like Iím not looking forward to the PS5, 4K TV and Intel NUC upgrade bill.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

tuyop posted:

Sounds like it could do it but not with HDR? I donít know Iíll have to give some files a test, but it sounds like Iím not looking forward to the PS5, 4K TV and Intel NUC upgrade bill.

Do remember that a PS5 or Intel NUC will almost certainly be able to handle 4k and a wide selection of formats natively, so you won't need to transcode there in the first place.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


4k HDR to whatever SDR transcoding sucks via Plex because the tone mapping is poo poo still.

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull


SwissArmyDruid posted:

Does anyone know of a NAS that might only use like, a pair or trio of 2.5" drives? Trying to fit everything into a 4-inch-wide wallbox is harder than I thought it would be.

The smallest and lowest power turnkey NAS I know of is the Synology DS419slim, which takes up to four 2.5" disks and measures 120x105x142mm (4.72"x4.13"x5.6"). Won't fit, but at least it's only supposed to use 20 watts under full load and 7 idle, and I think can sleep to lower power states too.

I question the mission of fitting it into a wall box. That creates a lof of problems, and why does the server have to be physically in the box anyways? It's a server, it can live elsewhere. Wire up the wall box with some RJ45 jacks and pull some ethernet cable to another room, where the server can live out in the open and breathe a little.

Brain Issues
Dec 16, 2004

lol

Moey posted:

4k HDR to whatever SDR transcoding sucks via Plex because the tone mapping is poo poo still.

It's much better than it used to be in my experience.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





DrDork posted:

Is there a reason you keep an entirely separate library instead of letting Plex do Media Optimizer, which'll create a 1080p/x264/whatever you tell it to version of your 4k stuff?

This really is only a problem if you've got a diverse userbase but last time I looked into it, if you had optimized copies but requested a different bitrate / resolution than those copies, Plex would retranscode from the original file. My server can't transcode more than one 4K at a time, so if I ever get a 4K TV myself, I'll be setting up separate libraries and only sharing that with people who actually understand when I say "no, really, don't turn the bitrate down".

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found



SwissArmyDruid posted:

Does anyone know of a NAS that might only use like, a pair or trio of 2.5" drives? Trying to fit everything into a 4-inch-wide wallbox is harder than I thought it would be.
If you can find a case with one or more 5.25" bays, there's this, this, this, or this, depending on where you are in the world; RaidSonic is generally available in EMEA while IcyDock is generally available in North America.

Also, in FreeBSD land, I noticed two things which will make quite a difference for NAS users.
The first is a commit to CAM and CTl (CAM Target Layer, which is used for iSCSI) that makes it possible for the disk drivers to pass priority messages through to some disk drivers, meaning when ZFS and UFS (as well as any filesystems accessed via iSCSI) gains support for it, metadata I/O will be flagged for higher priority when reading or writing the data on-disk.
The second is a review which adds a QuickAssist driver to the opencrypto framework in FreeBSD, ported from NetBSD, which means that when it all lands (which may take a little time, given what Mark has said on the subject on the hackers@ mailing list), all Atom C(2|3)000 devices which ship with the QuickAssist technology will be able to use it for IPsec VPN, GELI, and eventually also NFS over TLS (as kTLS is what provides the encryption for implementation of what will become the new RFC for that feature, and kTLS also uses the opencrypto framework), and even the cryptodev engine in OpenSSL for userspace stuff, although that's scheduled to be deprecated with OpenSSL 3.0, so don't get too attached to it.

BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Oct 27, 2020

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

IOwnCalculus posted:

This really is only a problem if you've got a diverse userbase but last time I looked into it, if you had optimized copies but requested a different bitrate / resolution than those copies, Plex would retranscode from the original file. My server can't transcode more than one 4K at a time, so if I ever get a 4K TV myself, I'll be setting up separate libraries and only sharing that with people who actually understand when I say "no, really, don't turn the bitrate down".

Yeah, that's true. I simply assumed that most people never bother to manually set a bitrate, so they'd just get served up the 1080p version and away you go. But if your users play with that setting, your approach makes sense.

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hitze
Aug 28, 2007
Give me a dollar. No, the twenty. This is gonna blow your mind...



Moey posted:

4k HDR to whatever SDR transcoding sucks via Plex because the tone mapping is poo poo still.

Plex doesnít tonemap at all when transcoding

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