NAS/Storage Megathread: What is this "File Deletion" You Speak of

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > NAS/Storage Megathread: What is this "File Deletion" You Speak of

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kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

bacon! posted:

Are you running that on "consumer" hardware? My build doesn't use ECC ram, has a $90 motherboard and no special SATA card or anything

He's running it on an N36L which is consumer hardware essentially.

# ¿ Oct 18, 2013 17:08

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 22:21

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

bacon! posted:

Ah, I missed that! The specs make it look like the N36L doesn't use ECC ram and doesn't have any special RAID controllers that you wouldn't get on a consumer board. It sounds like this might be a great compromise for me.

If you plan to buy something, you should look at the N54L which is the latest version of that series. Either that or the previous model N40L depending on price.

# ¿ Oct 18, 2013 17:22

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

Anyone know of a way to check a md5 hash on a file on FreeNAS via cli. md5sum doesn't seem to be installed so is there something else?

# ¿ Nov 4, 2013 17:04

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

Moxie Omen posted:

code:

cat file | md5

Awesome, thanks!

# ¿ Nov 4, 2013 17:17

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

stray posted:

Can anyone recommend a couple of decent PCIe NICs that work well with FreeNAS and won't cost an arm and a leg? I'm looking for one WiFi and one Ethernet, but none of the NICs I have work with it.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BMZHX2/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have 5 of those and they all work amazing. You can request the low profile brackets ($10 extra) if you order from that AMTECH place.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2013 15:07

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

Check out what this thread says about the Dell PowerEdges: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3561669

TL;DR: They're noisy and power hungry.

# ¿ Nov 12, 2013 21:17

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

Bedurndurn posted:

Though I'm not the guy you guys recommended it to, I bought a Synology Diskstation 212j and 2 of those 3TB drives. This thing has a ton of servers that can run on it, so I was wondering what's the smartest way of setting this thing up so I can access files on it remotely across the internet? I'd like to be able to get/put stuff on it from any of an iPad, a Nexus 4, a couple windows machines and a macbook air.

Setup a VPN server or buy a VPN capable router (Routerboard). I wouldn't risk access to my files any other way.

kiwid fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Nov 18, 2013

# ¿ Nov 18, 2013 03:36

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

I think I might be outgrowing my storage needs. I currently have two N40Ls running a 4 disk RAIDz1. The first one is my main unit, the second is for non-offsite backups of the main unit. Both units I have iscsi with multiple nics/paths setup for my home lab needs as well. I have multiple vmware guests on both units.

My problem is that both units will randomly become very slow or unresponsive and I'll have to shutdown my entire VM network and hosts and reboot FreeNAS. It's a pain. Anyone else have these issues?

I was thinking about going with a more powerful build this time but I don't really want a huge tower with internal disks. I was thinking about buying a cheap little Shuttle PC and using external drive bays for the storage arrays. I just don't know what to look for because everytime I look I find an all-in-one solution which I don't want. What type of HBA or RAID card with suitable bays should I be looking at? I've never done an external build like this before.

edit: Also cheap is good.

edit2: Maybe something like the M1015 but with external ports?

kiwid fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Nov 21, 2013

# ¿ Nov 21, 2013 19:47

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

Daylen Drazzi posted:

I'm trying to decide on how to set up a NAS for my ESXi box, and at this point I'm sort of conflicted. On the one hand I can buy either the Netgear ReadyNAS 314, the QNAP TS-421, or make my own Frankenstein setup using FreeNAS and a bunch of disks thrown into a mid-size tower. I like how much neater and easier it is to manage disks with the QNAP and ReadyNAS systems, but a friend brought up a question about portability - if the hardware dies, how likely is it that I will be unable to access my data if I choose to go to another NAS vendor?

With the FreeNAS system I'm pretty sure I can get away with putting together another box and chucking in the drives and I'm good to go, but neither he nor I know much about how the 314 or the TS-421 store the data to be able to say with any degree of confidence that I can just move the drives in the event of a hardware failure and be up and running with a minimal amount of effort.

Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thoughts about an alternative setup?

You're right. With manufacturer specific RAID, you can't just pop your drives into a new system and be up and running. With ZFS on FreeNAS, you can. You'd have to temporarily move the data somewhere, rebuild a new array on the new system and move the data back. Depending on how much data you have, this can be easy or hard. However, you should really have your data backed up, right? So this would be a non-issue for the most part.

# ¿ Nov 27, 2013 22:27

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

With these black friday deals, I'm considering upgrading the drives in one of my N40Ls. Would I be better off going with 6 drive RAIDz2 or a 5 drive RAIDz1 with 1 SSD cache?

# ¿ Nov 29, 2013 14:53

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

Yeah I'll definitely have a separate backup. I really want z2 but im willing to go z1 + l2arc if it's a major performance difference.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2013 21:07

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

Combat Pretzel posted:

L2ARC makes only sense on high workloads combing through large datasets. If you're just streaming movies, music and access ISOs on it, at most get another stick of RAM or two.

That's exactly what I wanted to hear. Decision made.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2013 21:14

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

For anyone interested, this is how Newegg is shipping the drives:

Looks like they're still not shipping them in manufacturer's packaging.

# ¿ Dec 2, 2013 20:17

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

Mthrboard posted:

What's wrong with that? It looks like the drive is still surrounded by a 1" cushion on all sides, which is about all you'd get from a retail box anyway. To me that looks even better than the old plastic cradles on each end, because it would give a little more resistance if something hit in the middle of the box.

According to others in the thread, drives from Newegg have a high failure rate and high DOA rate which some have attributed to the packaging (also take a look at Newegg feedback for the drives). I guess I'll find out soon.

# ¿ Dec 2, 2013 20:46

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

FISHMANPET posted:

I built my own NAS so I gloss over posts here about bought appliances, but now my mom is in the market for one, so here I am. She estimates she only needs a terabyte, but I'll give her two to be safe. I'm thinking something with two drives for RAID, and then I'd like to back it up with something like Crashplan. Any suggestions on what I should be looking at?

This + 2x 2TB Reds + This.

kiwid fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Dec 3, 2013

# ¿ Dec 3, 2013 21:20

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

eames posted:

I�m about to order that exact NAS for a similar use case, but I noticed that there�s a newer and 30� cheaper 214se out already.
It has half the ram (512 vs 256 MB) and the CPU is 400 Mhz slower, so I assume the "old" but slightly more expensive 213j is the way to go even though 802.11n will be the bandwidth bottleneck?

That's a good question. I've never touched the se version so I can't quite answer that. If all you're doing is just long-term storing files and maybe streaming movies/music, I'm sure it'd be fine.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2013 21:33

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

Here is a pretty good review of the DS214se it looks like. Although be mindful of this ^^^

kiwid fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Dec 3, 2013

# ¿ Dec 3, 2013 21:39

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

Gwaihir posted:

To continue newegg shipping chat, I bought 4 drives on their black friday sale and they came like this:

It was the same bubblepacks as the single drive picture above, just with a bunch of those air blister packing things piled on top. Not entirely sure how to feel about this :|

drat, and I bought 5, all 5 came in single boxes. Guess I got lucky. Still waiting on my 6th from another vendor so I'm not sure if they work just yet.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2013 02:29

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

I'm going to be building a new zpool tonight and I was wondering what is the best way to transfer from freenas to freenas was. Should I use the ZFS replication or use rsync?

# ¿ Dec 4, 2013 20:26

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

Mr Shiny Pants posted:

A new one? You can import your Zpool in the other Freenas if they are the same version. If you want to upgrade your capacity you can replace the drives one at a time and resilver the pool in between replacements. This way your pool stays online.

Bigger drives, more drives, and going from raidz1 to raidz2. As far as I know, you still can't expand a vdev with more drives, right?

# ¿ Dec 5, 2013 14:20

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

No DOAs for me either and all drives passed a short smart test.

# ¿ Dec 5, 2013 16:01

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

so I just happened to look at that SMART values on my other NAS with older drives. I haven't been getting any SMART errors or warnings or anything (tests are scheduled weekly) but one of the drives looks like this:

code:

/dev/ada2
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000b   096   096   016    Pre-fail  Always       -       458753
  2 Throughput_Performance  0x0005   131   131   054    Pre-fail  Offline      -       99
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0007   132   132   024    Pre-fail  Always       -       434 (Average 434)
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       31
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   005    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000b   100   100   067    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  8 Seek_Time_Performance   0x0005   135   135   020    Pre-fail  Offline      -       26
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0012   098   098   000    Old_age   Always       -       14438
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   060    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       31
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       588
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       588
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0002   171   171   000    Old_age   Always       -       35 (Min/Max 22/41)
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0022   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0008   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x000a   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

Is that Raw_Read_Error_Rate something I need to be concerned about? All the other drives have a value of 0.

# ¿ Dec 5, 2013 20:44

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

IOwnCalculus posted:

For the record, here's how Newegg shipped mine - the third drive easily had enough room to rock from angled to sitting against the end of the box.

I really did luck out then. That sucks.

# ¿ Dec 5, 2013 21:01

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

If you have good backups, you might almost be better to do a RAID10 at 4 drives (stripe two nested raid1 groups) and have the same usable space but increased performance. You can technically lose two drives but there is a chance you can only lose one.

edit: but for home use, you're probably better sticking with the raidz1-3

kiwid fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Dec 6, 2013

# ¿ Dec 6, 2013 17:17

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

Did I set this up correctly in that it is a RAID10 setup?

I have a feeling it's just two groups of RAID1 and no striping.

kiwid fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Dec 8, 2013

# ¿ Dec 8, 2013 01:00

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

Combat Pretzel posted:

ZFS load balances data between different vdevs based on IO load, among other things. Data's being spread, just not in an interleaved fashion you're expecting.

Not sure why you need an intent log, tho. Are you writing out that much data?

Thanks, I thought I set it up in some weird JBOD of mirrored groups or something, didn't know it load balances across all vdevs.

As for the intent log. This isn't my main NAS, this is just a thing I'm loving with for a home lab with vmware.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2013 01:17

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

Keep in mind, if you gently caress up your source files and robocopy syncs, you have no actual backup.

Keep the folder in your user profile and use the built in Windows 7 backup or Windows 8 file history.

# ¿ Dec 9, 2013 13:52

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

eightysixed posted:

Holy poo poo, you're right. I could have sworn I had seen it somewhere over the weekend for $299. So then, clearly the DS213j is the recommended box in this thread?

Unless you want to build your own using an HP microserver. The DS213j is probably the best 2-bay home use NAS.

# ¿ Dec 10, 2013 20:48

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

Can someone tell me what this means?

http://pastebin.com/nyhTW5YW

That's the SMART info for my 6 new drives. These are setup in a 6 drive RAIDz2.

As you can see all the stats are nearly identical except for the Load_Cycle_Count which only seems to be incrementing on the very first drive (/dev/ada0).

What does this mean?

# ¿ Dec 12, 2013 16:58

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

All 6 are brand new WD RED 3TB. /dev/ada0 is from NCIX and /dev/ada1 to /dev/ada5 are from Newegg.

It can't be normal for it to be parking the heads 113 times per day on only one drive, right? Unless FreeNAS/ZFS is doing something fucky here?

# ¿ Dec 12, 2013 17:04

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

I don't know if this information is correct or not but it's something I saved a while back. Can't remember where I found it.

quote:

As i understand, the performance issues with 4K disks isn�t just partition alignment, but also an issue with RAID-Z�s variable stripe size.
RAID-Z basically works to spread the 128KiB recordsizie upon on its data disks. That would lead to a formula like:
128KiB / (nr_of_drives � parity_drives) = maximum (default) variable stripe size
Let�s do some examples:
3-disk RAID-Z = 128KiB / 2 = 64KiB = good
4-disk RAID-Z = 128KiB / 3 = ~43KiB = BAD!
5-disk RAID-Z = 128KiB / 4 = 32KiB = good
9-disk RAID-Z = 128KiB / 8 = 16KiB = good
4-disk RAID-Z2 = 128KiB / 2 = 64KiB = good
5-disk RAID-Z2 = 128KiB / 3 = ~43KiB = BAD!
6-disk RAID-Z2 = 128KiB / 4 = 32KiB = good
10-disk RAID-Z2 = 128KiB / 8 = 16KiB = good

# ¿ Dec 15, 2013 03:49

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

For any Canadians, the Newegg.ca shell shocker at 1:00pm EST is the 4TB WD Red drives.

http://www.newegg.ca/Special/ShellShocker.aspx?cm_sp=ShellShocker-_-22-236-599-_-12232013_2

edit: $184.99, meh.

kiwid fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Dec 23, 2013

# ¿ Dec 23, 2013 18:17

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

Anyone know the best way to backup a QNAP to a FreeNAS box over the WAN without the use of VPN?

Essentially, I just want to rsync my local QNAP to a remote FreeNAS over SSH, is this possible? If not, what are my options?

# ¿ Jul 2, 2014 22:03

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

I need to hook up a freenas microserver to another Windows server as an iscsi target to expand the storage. On the microserver, should I use the motherboard raid, zfs, or ufs raid? I've heard a ZFS disk can be slow?

kiwid fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Oct 16, 2014

# ¿ Oct 16, 2014 19:18

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

I want to build a freenas box for a home lab. It needs to have a moderate amount of space, and I prefer performance over total space. I have about $1000 to spend. What should I buy?

Also, I've been considering going with all SSD and doing RAID-0 to get the max storage available. Again, this is strictly a testing environment so I'm ok with data loss if the RAID dies one day.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2015 20:57

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

What is the different between putting 3 individual drives into a ZFS pool vs putting 3 striped drives as one vdev into a pool assuming there are no current vdevs in the pool?

Edit: for a visual:

code:

tank
    stripe
        ada0p2
    stripe
        ada1p2
    stripe
        ada2p2

code:

tank
    stripe
        ada0p2
        ada1p2
        ada2p2

kiwid fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Jul 7, 2015

# ¿ Jul 7, 2015 15:55

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

I have an old rear end HP N40L microserver with 6 HDDs in it using freenas with ZFS.

I also have a newer ShuttlePC that is way better specced but the problem is that it will only fit 2 HDDs internally.

Does anyone know of a cheap and decent external enclosure (either 4 or 6 drives) that I can hook up to some type of HBA card in the ShuttlePC?

I'm cheap so something that isn't crazy expensive.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2019 19:32

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

Atomizer posted:

Mediasonic makes these multi-bay enclosures that connect via USB3 (or eSATA); is something like this cheap enough?

Yes that's interesting. Thanks.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2019 23:14

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

Anyone recommend cheap 6-bay hardware that I can throw freenas onto? My old N40L just died and I'm looking to just swap the hard drives over, reinstall freenas and recover my ZFS volume.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2020 15:56

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 22:21

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

Ugh, I hosed up my build...

My old N54L server died with a 6 drive ZFS pool.

So I bought a Fractal Node 304 case, a mini itx mobo and ryzen 5 3600. Stupidly I assumed the CPU came with integrated graphics. So here is my problem, the motherboard has 4 sata ports and one PCI-E slot. I have a SATA card that will give me two additional sata ports but then I can't put a video card in.

So my question is, can I boot to the BIOS and pre-OS environment with a USB video card? If not then it looks like my only option is to sell the 3600 and look for a ryzen 5 chip with integrated graphics. Is this correct?

# ¿ Dec 25, 2020 03:24

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > NAS/Storage Megathread: What is this "File Deletion" You Speak of

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