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Kalman
Jan 17, 2010

USPOL May

KKKLIP ART posted:

Is there anything specifically wrong with making a screen door out of 2x material if I canít find something a bit thinner?

I've had screen doors made with 1x material in the past, worked fine.

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Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 28, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns




KKKLIP ART posted:

Is there anything specifically wrong with making a screen door out of 2x material if I canít find something a bit thinner?
Make sure itís good and dry and straight grained. Thereís not much keeping a screen door flat so you need to start with flat wood that will stay flat.

KKKLIP ART
Sep 3, 2004



Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

Make sure itís good and dry and straight grained. Thereís not much keeping a screen door flat so you need to start with flat wood that will stay flat.

Cool. I was thinking cedar or something of that nature and can find plenty of 1x but 2x seemed like really beefy. Current ones are 1 1/8 but really bad condition.

HolHorsejob
Mar 13, 2020

In the land of Hyrule, there echoes a legend. A legend held dearly by the Royal Family tells of a boy... A boy who, after battling evil and saving Hyrule, crept away from the land that made him a legend... Done with the battles he once waged across time, he embarked on a journey...


How are folks handling the obscene price of wood? What kind of price increases have you been seeing in your area?

I was going to buy some ACX plywood for a minor construction project, and it is current up 2.5x - 3x from last year (retail, norcal). Softwood at least 2x. Hardwood plywood more or less stable, oddly enough

Rutibex
Sep 9, 2001

Official Forums Path of Exile Expert


I rummage around the neighborhood for old pallets and branches that fall off trees

GEMorris
Aug 28, 2002

Glory To the Order!


Hardwood doesn't have a strong connection to home building, and has a longer supply chain (disruptions in harvesting take longer to work their way through) so I'm not surprised there hasn't been a huge impact. As for myself I'm still building with wood I hoarded and am avoiding buying more as I may move soon.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 28, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns




GEMorris posted:

Hardwood doesn't have a strong connection to home building, and has a longer supply chain (disruptions in harvesting take longer to work their way through) so I'm not surprised there hasn't been a huge impact. As for myself I'm still building with wood I hoarded and am avoiding buying more as I may move soon.
My supplier tells me the hardwood price increase is on it's way, in part (or even in whole) because of increased trucking costs. I think gas being $2/gal 9 months helped offset what price increases there might have been, but now we're back to $3 gas and have a huge shortage of truckers. Hardwood prices really have been pretty stable and not really affected by the pandemic up until now (white oak and walnut are nuts but have been for a few years. 8/4 white oak is $6.75/bf wholesale-if they can keep any in stock!!!). My supplier said get ready for $2+/bf poplar that's usually $1.50 or less. Cherry is amazingly cheap right now-soft maple is bonkers, and at least locally paint grade soft maple was more expensive than FAS cherry for a minute. Baltic birch has been cheap the past few years but it seems to be creeping up, as is chinabirch, but I think that may have more to do with tariff-related supply chain shifts than the pandemic.

I think softwood dimensional lumber prices are gonna start coming down this summer as supply picks up, but who knows. I used to get really nice rough full 2x12 C/BTR clear yellow pine for really cheap but they said because demand is so crazy it makes more sense to saw a really nice log like that into dimensional 2x8s or w/e, so maybe the quality of dimensional lumber has at least gone up a little?

more falafel please
Feb 26, 2005

forums poster



First mortise and third tenon (this was just a test and I realized the tenon stock wasn't straight after the first two):




Also ignore the screw hole, this is scrap.

Layed out the mortise with a wheel marking gauge, then hogged out the waste on the drill press and cleaned it up with chisels. I layed out the tenon with the marking gauge too, but then cut it with a dado stack. I ended up having to scrape a little bit on the bottom of the mortise to get it to sit flush, and had to sand the tenon a little bit. The fit is tight, though!

Blistex
Oct 30, 2003

Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler


Kaiser Schnitzel posted:


I think softwood dimensional lumber prices are gonna start coming down this summer as supply picks up, but who knows. I used to get really nice rough full 2x12 C/BTR clear yellow pine for really cheap but they said because demand is so crazy it makes more sense to saw a really nice log like that into dimensional 2x8s or w/e, so maybe the quality of dimensional lumber has at least gone up a little?

Lumber suppliers are going to see that demand is still strong, and while they might ease off a bit, I expect them to maintain a 2x normal price because they can.

GEMorris
Aug 28, 2002

Glory To the Order!


Kaiser what region do you live in because my local prices on species are remarkably different. Example

I do want your bargain cherry tho, a truckload of it.

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013



Good lord syp is cheap. No wonder schwarz loves it

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 28, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns




GEMorris posted:

Kaiser what region do you live in because my local prices on species are remarkably different. Example

I do want your bargain cherry tho, a truckload of it.
Iím on the gulf coast but Iím able to buy wholesale and the wholesale world is definitely different than the retail world for hardwoods. Freight/region matters, but I donít think thatís a huge issue in this instance-my cherry goes on a truck 1000 miles from Ohio, itís not coming from down the street. People who sell to woodworkers are dealing with very different demand (people who like to work with nice wood) than manufacturers who make whatever consumers want to buy. Woodworkers like to work with and appreciate cherry so if you sell wood to woodworkers, sell the cherry for a lot even if it doesnít cost you much.

But at the moment, the average American consumer absolutely does not want cherry cabinets or cherry millwork or cherry furniture because grey (rustic reclaimed farmhouse grey for the HGTV crowd and minimalist Scandinavian grey for the Architectural Digest crowd) is The Thing now and cherry does not play well with grey at all and literally everything is either painted white, sort of greyed out/cerused/unstained white oak, walnut, or maybe some unstained blonde birch or maple. Woodworkers/retail hardwood lumber is idk, maybe 10% of the hardwood market tops? Most of the demand is from furniture/cabinet/millwork manufacturers, and so there is no demand there for cherry at the sawmill gate. White oak is crazy because in addition to its smaller supply (lots more red oaks than white oaks) itís suddenly the hot new wood when it was already under pressure from the stupid bourbon industry that can only use NEW white oak barrels, plus white is still a great wood for flooring. So I bought 300bf of 10Ē+ wide 8/4 cherry for $3/bf a few months ago and have tried to steer folks to red oak instead of white oak (and with the right finish, most of them canít tell the different). Itís a really big order for me to buy 300bf of anything and I use a lot more wood than the average home woodworker but thereís a not really that huge millwork shop here that easily eats 1000bf/ of sapele every week. Craft furnituremakers and home woodworkers are a drop in the bucket of the overall hardwood industry.

E: if you want the price of white oak to come down, tell all your friends to quit drinking bourbon and start drinking scotch/brandy/rum that reuse barrels for decades and use the old bourbon barrels.

E2: gonna start an add campaign about how bourbon is destroying American forests or somethin. This post made possible by the Scotch Whiskey Board!

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Apr 6, 2021

GEMorris
Aug 28, 2002

Glory To the Order!


The greige trend really needs to die, its incredibly clinical and unwelcoming, the perfect aesthetic for late stage capitalism really. I'm all about cherry and warm tones everywhere in a space I'm going to live in.

I'm relatively aware of the uses of hardwood in industry just didn't realize it was possible for wholesale and retail to get that disconnected.

signalnoise
Mar 7, 2008


Seems so weird to me to want grey. I want color in everything. Color means life, and stuff like cocobolo looks fantastic. My brother picked up a block of pacific madrone just because it looks neat and he's going to be giving it to me just because he thinks I'll appreciate it for something to work with, and I will. Still don't know what to use it all for, but I plan to make some chopsticks for him with it. I'd love to have a shitload of cherry to work with.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


Gotta say I really like the translucent white oil that's popular here in scandinavia right now. Really makes old, knotty yellowed pine look fresh. Works on floors and walls.

I am from this region and the central color of scandinavia is not grey. It's white. Whites have always been important here regardless of time, makes a room brighter and makes it feel bigger. I am definitely a fan of whites. Grey is fine here and there, but also colors. Scandinavian design is varied.

A lot of white here, but also color


And here's a lot more color


Modern white, but the floos has color


Whites are very versatile, here's warm white patterned wallpaper. Scandinavians also very much like wallpapers and feel painted walls are often too clinical and cold.


I always liked these old retro kitchens (50s and 60s):


If there's one thing I like about traditional scandinavian kitchens it's these big stainless counter tops, they are so loving practical, drip edges on the front and bigger ones on the back.


Been out of style forever, but are making a comeback.

Charles Ingalls
Jan 31, 2021


and no one sane paints their walls *pure white* itís always eggshell/cotton/etc, which is a lot warmer

signalnoise
Mar 7, 2008


Charles Ingalls posted:

and no one sane paints their walls *pure white* itís always eggshell/cotton/etc, which is a lot warmer

Hell, my house is painted with purple, rich blues, green, red

Color is great

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

But at the moment, the average American consumer absolutely does not want cherry cabinets or cherry millwork or cherry furniture because grey (rustic reclaimed farmhouse grey for the HGTV crowd and minimalist Scandinavian grey for the Architectural Digest crowd) is The Thing now and cherry does not play well with grey at all and literally everything is either painted white, sort of greyed out/cerused/unstained white oak, walnut, or maybe some unstained blonde birch or maple.

Oh god we were just looking for a dining room table and it's chunky farmhouse chic as far as the eye can see

KKKLIP ART
Sep 3, 2004



dupersaurus posted:

Oh god we were just looking for a dining room table and it's chunky farmhouse chic as far as the eye can see

This is exactly why I am going to make an attempt to build one! Which leads me to some questions:

Is there a (usually) economical wood that will stand up to use as a dinner table and take stain pretty well? I would love something like a walnut but also that probably out of my price range.

I donít even know where to get wood. Iím a super newbie, yíall.

Wallet
Jun 19, 2006



Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

My supplier tells me the hardwood price increase is on it's way, in part (or even in whole) because of increased trucking costs. I think gas being $2/gal 9 months helped offset what price increases there might have been, but now we're back to $3 gas and have a huge shortage of truckers. Hardwood prices really have been pretty stable and not really affected by the pandemic up until now (white oak and walnut are nuts but have been for a few years. 8/4 white oak is $6.75/bf wholesale-if they can keep any in stock!!!). My supplier said get ready for $2+/bf poplar that's usually $1.50 or less. Cherry is amazingly cheap right now-soft maple is bonkers, and at least locally paint grade soft maple was more expensive than FAS cherry for a minute. Baltic birch has been cheap the past few years but it seems to be creeping up, as is chinabirch, but I think that may have more to do with tariff-related supply chain shifts than the pandemic.

This has to be at least partially regional. Cherry was the same price as soft maple when I bought a bunch a few months ago (I think I paid $3.25 for 4/4 FAS) but now cherry is nearly twice the price ($4 for cherry, $2.50 for soft maple).

Right now the local mill is selling 8/4 white oak for $4 and red for $3.50. I assume it's less wholesale.

Wallet fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Apr 6, 2021

JEEVES420
Feb 16, 2005

The world is a mess... and I just need to rule it

GEMorris posted:

Kaiser what region do you live in because my local prices on species are remarkably different. Example

I do want your bargain cherry tho, a truckload of it.

A lumber yard with prices online

Here in Dallas cherry is about $2-$3 cheaper than your example and walnut is $2-$3 more expensive.

NomNomNom
Jul 20, 2008
Please Work Out

Anyone in the northern virginia region? Here's my local lumber store:
Colonial Hardwoods

Here's their price list, which never gets updated.


It is not cheap.

Rutibex
Sep 9, 2001

Official Forums Path of Exile Expert


Maybe instead of buying wood you should buy a chainsaw

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Today I need to attach a bunch of 1" dowels end-to-end using smaller dowels for a spindle shelf which has a few other constraints (including a previous approach that failed) that are leading me to this method (I'll post results when the whole thing is together). I've been thinking about this for two days, and I've come to a decision on how I'm going to approach this, but I'd like the thread to check my work and logic.

I'm building a version of this to match the interior design of my friends' cafe**:


Here are my two finalists for making the straightest, most centred, repeated holes:

Option 1: drill-press with clamping system. The dowels are too long for my drill press, but I could turn my drill press so that it can drill off the edge of the table and clamp the dowels to the edge of the work bench.

Option 2: make a jig and do it with a cordless drill. I have tons of extra scrap pieces of this dowel around (because of the previous approach that failed ). I could use the drill press to make a (even a few) centred jigs which I can clamp to the end of the dowel with some squeeze clamps that I have which can clamp around round things. I've figured out a way to make a perfect jig.

After pondering this for two days I'm leaning towards #2 today because option 1 only has the alignment of the jig with the material as a margin of error (something easily visually inspected and checked with common measuring tools) whereas option has two places for error in the process for introducing error: the verticality of the dowel, and the centreing of the bit.


**I told them that I'm still new to this stuff and learning but they really wanted me to build it for them

CommonShore fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Apr 6, 2021

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 28, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns




Wallet posted:

This has to be at least partially regional. Cherry was the same price as soft maple when I bought a bunch a few months ago (I think I paid $3.25 for 4/4 FAS) but now cherry is nearly twice the price ($4 for cherry, $2.50 for soft maple).

Right now the local mill is selling 8/4 white oak for $4 and red for $3.50. I assume it's less wholesale.
It looks like cherry has actually gone up quite a bit since I bought a bunch glad I bought it when I did. If youíre in a hardwood area and able to buy straight from a mill, pricing can get extra funky. Thatís a crazy price for the white oak though-is that for clear/first and seconds or lower grade stuff?

Hereís a good article about the current hardwood world: http://www.foreconinc.com/hardwood-lumber-market-update-2/ most of those prices in that article I think are for green, rough, #1 common lumber at the mill gate and have cherry at like $.80/bf which shows how much of the cost of lumber is in drying, grading, transport, retail etc not in actual logs and saws. The Appalachian stumpage pricing I found from last March shows cherry at $.30/bf stumpage and $.50/bf for lumber. Hardwood sawmilling is a tough business trying to make a living on $.20/bf.


NomNomNom posted:

Anyone in the northern virginia region? Here's my local lumber store:
Colonial Hardwoods

Here's their price list, which never gets updated.


It is not cheap.
Itís been a decade since I went there and itís a little ways from northern VA but this place in Zion Crossroads was good and their prices look decent: http://www.northlandforest.com/retail-hardwoods-troy.html

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

Hubris

Fun Shoe

CommonShore posted:

Today I need to attach a bunch of 1" dowels end-to-end using smaller dowels for a spindle shelf which has a few other constraints (including a previous approach that failed) that are leading me to this method (I'll post results when the whole thing is together). I've been thinking about this for two days, and I've come to a decision on how I'm going to approach this, but I'd like the thread to check my work and logic.

I'm building a version of this to match the interior design of my friends' cafe**:


Could you use a 1" forstner bit in your drill press to cut holes through the shelves, and then fit long dowels through them? That is, use only 4 sections of dowel for the entire piece. Then you could pin smaller dowels through the sides of the shelves and the dowels, to hold them in place. Make them a contrasting wood and I think it'd be quite attractive.

If you cut the dowels in between each shelf, then the dowels are subject to a lot of leverage at their ends, which makes them weaker. Imagine what would happen if one of the shelves got pushed sideways while the others were held still.

(On the flipside, the design I propose puts all of the vertical load on the pin dowels, but my intuition is that this is the correct compromise to make)

alnilam
Nov 10, 2009


Posting in the springtime


Rutibex posted:

Maybe instead of buying wood you should buy a chainsaw

My cousin's next door neighbor has a small sawmill setup and built his entire house from cedar growing on the property, it's badass as hell

signalnoise
Mar 7, 2008


What is the right equipment to make a conical recess?



Not that I'm about to attempt this but I'd like to know what it is. I can think of a way I could theoretically do it with a router but my gut says drill press and a special bit

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

The general increasing love of athletics is benefiting our young men, and making their lives better and more worth the living.

signalnoise posted:

What is the right equipment to make a conical recess?



Not that I'm about to attempt this but I'd like to know what it is. I can think of a way I could theoretically do it with a router but my gut says drill press and a special bit

The special bit would seem to be an ordinary countersink bit. They come in a variety of sizes to get the diameter you want.

It looks like countersink -> counterbore -> through hole

signalnoise
Mar 7, 2008


Deteriorata posted:

The special bit would seem to be an ordinary countersink bit. They come in a variety of sizes to get the diameter you want.

It looks like countersink -> counterbore -> through hole

Ah, right. Thanks, it didn't even occur to me that it would still just be a countersink bit because I have just never even heard of them in that size. Those buttons are 24mm in diameter. I looked up 50mm countersink bits and of course I would never have seen these, I don't generally look at bits that are so expensive. Good to know!

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Could you use a 1" forstner bit in your drill press to cut holes through the shelves, and then fit long dowels through them? That is, use only 4 sections of dowel for the entire piece. Then you could pin smaller dowels through the sides of the shelves and the dowels, to hold them in place. Make them a contrasting wood and I think it'd be quite attractive.

If you cut the dowels in between each shelf, then the dowels are subject to a lot of leverage at their ends, which makes them weaker. Imagine what would happen if one of the shelves got pushed sideways while the others were held still.

(On the flipside, the design I propose puts all of the vertical load on the pin dowels, but my intuition is that this is the correct compromise to make)

I considered that design but one of the constraints is that they wanted copper spindles (with visible edge birch plywood), so I'm putting the dowels inside 1" copper pipes. That means I can't access the wood to put the cross pins in.

I'm inserting the ends of the dowels into shallow forstner drilled mortise holes, and each pin within goes from one dowel through part of the shelf's thickness, into the other dowel, and then glued up. Hence the need forgot straight accurate pin holes.

If I were to do it over again from the beginning, I might do things differently, but the copper is cut and buffed, the shelves are routed and drilled, and so this is where I am.

Thumposaurus
Jul 24, 2007



I used to get wood from a place in Manassas I can't remember the name of right now when I lived in VA. The last time I bought wood here in MD I drove north a bit to Amish country and got some nice ash from OG neckbeards.

Wallet
Jun 19, 2006



Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

It looks like cherry has actually gone up quite a bit since I bought a bunch glad I bought it when I did. If youíre in a hardwood area and able to buy straight from a mill, pricing can get extra funky. Thatís a crazy price for the white oak though-is that for clear/first and seconds or lower grade stuff?

The oak prices are for FAS/F1F. It's unplaned straight from the mill so I'm sure that's part of itóthe guy who owns it spends his saturday mornings manning the planer and letting woodworkers come in and gently caress up his stacks for pocket money, basically.

Wallet fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Apr 6, 2021

Mr. Mambold
Feb 13, 2011

Aha. Nice post.





signalnoise posted:

Seems so weird to me to want grey. I want color in everything. Color means life, and stuff like cocobolo looks fantastic. My brother picked up a block of pacific madrone just because it looks neat and he's going to be giving it to me just because he thinks I'll appreciate it for something to work with, and I will. Still don't know what to use it all for, but I plan to make some chopsticks for him with it. I'd love to have a shitload of cherry to work with.

Madrone is a special wood that gets California a pass from Judgement. Your brother's gonna need a rice bowl for all those chopsticks. Get a lathe and you can do those recessed warts too.

korora
Sep 3, 2011


CommonShore posted:

I considered that design but one of the constraints is that they wanted copper spindles (with visible edge birch plywood), so I'm putting the dowels inside 1" copper pipes. That means I can't access the wood to put the cross pins in.

I'm inserting the ends of the dowels into shallow forstner drilled mortise holes, and each pin within goes from one dowel through part of the shelf's thickness, into the other dowel, and then glued up. Hence the need forgot straight accurate pin holes.

If I were to do it over again from the beginning, I might do things differently, but the copper is cut and buffed, the shelves are routed and drilled, and so this is where I am.

Why not have single piece dowel with copper sleeves only between the shelves? You could drill out your mortises to the dowel diameter and use the copper pipe pieces you already cut as essentially big spacers between shelves and theyíd take some of the vertical load.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




korora posted:

Why not have single piece dowel with copper sleeves only between the shelves? You could drill out your mortises to the dowel diameter and use the copper pipe pieces you already cut as essentially big spacers between shelves and theyíd take some of the vertical load.

When I tried to do that the holes were extremely tight and I was worried that the veneer on the plywood would tear as I was hammering everything into place.

signalnoise
Mar 7, 2008


Mr. Mambold posted:

Madrone is a special wood that gets California a pass from Judgement. Your brother's gonna need a rice bowl for all those chopsticks. Get a lathe and you can do those recessed warts too.

I was planning to make a sort of lathe jig for my palm router to attach to actually. Is this a Bad Idea? I was thinking that for very small turning projects like chopsticks or fountain pens, it should be okay.

edit: The reason I'm asking isn't because it's a router instead of a dedicated lathe, because I've seen routers made on youtube with routers and even power drills. My concern actually is that it's a Ryobi cordless palm router I got as a gift and I dunno if it's a piece of poo poo

signalnoise fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Apr 6, 2021

z0331
Oct 2, 2003

Holtby thy name


JEEVES420 posted:

A lumber yard with prices online

Here in Dallas cherry is about $2-$3 cheaper than your example and walnut is $2-$3 more expensive.

The place I go to recently took their hardwood prices down because they were changing (going up) so much. I paid over $5/bf for soft maple when the last listed price on the website was ~$3 I think. This is in northern NJ.

I'm glad I don't intend on making anything out of walnut anytime soon.

Elysium
Aug 21, 2003
It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.

Since weíre having price talk, has Baltic Birch gone up in price at all? Last time I got some 5x5í 3/4Ē it was around $60 a sheet.

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Mr. Mambold
Feb 13, 2011

Aha. Nice post.





signalnoise posted:

I was planning to make a sort of lathe jig for my palm router to attach to actually. Is this a Bad Idea? I was thinking that for very small turning projects like chopsticks or fountain pens, it should be okay.

edit: The reason I'm asking isn't because it's a router instead of a dedicated lathe, because I've seen routers made on youtube with routers and even power drills. My concern actually is that it's a Ryobi cordless palm router I got as a gift and I dunno if it's a piece of poo poo

I don't know any of the specs of that router, but they typically have a rotation speed of 15-20k, which is 10-20 times too fast. If you don't have a variable speed on it or a rheostat, I wouldn't do this. Google wood turning lathe speeds vs. the rpms of that router. It's probably a Bad Idea.

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