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Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

I've decided that I should take up woodworking in earnest, instead of just collecting tools for no apparent reason beyond the occasional use. I have a good square or two, a really cheap coping saw that I halfway know how to use, and a set of chisels/knives that I have no idea where they came from but I found in a drawer. They're pretty sharp (I wouldn't say scary sharp, but it takes a lot to scare me after moving to Japanese cutlery) and seem to work well enough. I've started teaching myself how to cut dovetails by hand, so far using just the coping saw and chisels. They're ok, but I feel like I could really use a better saw than a coping saw for the straight cuts. What saw should I look into for this? I've seen the $100+ dollar dovetail saws and that seems a bit more than I'd like to spend at this moment. Suggestions for the $0-50ish range? Would a douzuki be a better idea at this price range?

Also I have basically no good surface to work on and I live in a tiny apartment with no room to build a decent bench. Are there good temporary/mobile solutions beyond my current plan of C-clamping things to a table in my yard?

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Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

Slugworth posted:

Decided to try dovetails for the first time, and not having a dovetail saw figured 'eh, my coping saw will probably work fine'.

It did not.

I get that it is a hard to quantify question, but will a cheap dovetail saw give me better results, or is the fault more likely in the user than the saw?

I'm pretty new to dovetails and started out using my coping saw as well. I still use it for some parts but I bought a $30 douzuki off Amazon and it is much nicer for making most of the cuts. With practice I think you could probably do dovetails well with anything but having a good tool helps a lot. I think you could see some benefit from the saw, I did.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

I've nicked myself a few times with a chisel, thankfully nothing too bad and nothing before I started sharpening them on the jig that I have for kitchen knives (which works really well, but is awkward as hell to maintain an angle on with the chisels). I did manage to get myself with a kitchen knife all the way to the bone of my finger and caused my first ever seizure. Maybe the jig works too well in some instances. I really need a good work bench/more clamps. Both, really.

Speaking of work benches, what sort of general design(s) do you guys recommend. I saw that the height should be ~wrist height for planing purposes, ~24 inches in depth, but what about other dimensions and the general configuration?

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

Kerro posted:

I really like the corners as they are as well, keeps it looking really sharp IMO.

On the topic of corner-chat, I'm making a coffee table for some friends for Christmas and they have requested something that is child-safe for their 2 y/o toddler. The table top is 900x450x40 and my normal preference would just be to leave it square and chunky as I like that look, but I'm wondering what the best bet is to make it safer for a toddler. Router a chamfered edge? Just buy them some child-safe corner stick-ons to go with it?

You could find out how tall the toddler is, and then make sure the table top isn't right in "put your eye out/fracture your skull" range when the kid inevitably trips near it. You can't be entirely safe with this, obviously, but keeping the head injury range in mind is probably good.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

So I want to build a new desk because working on my kitchen table is wearing thin very rapidly and this stay at home order seems like it's going to be in place for a while. My current plan is to buy some cheap solid core or slab doors off craig's list, cut them to size, and put some legs under them. Is there anything about this plan that is obviously a bad idea that I'm not seeing?

On a totally unrelated note, I was gifted a Hegner scroll saw, it's labeled as a multimax-18 and was manufactured in 2000 if I'm reading this thing right. I have no idea how much use it has seen, it was owned by my mother in law's father and has probably been sitting in various garages for the majority of the 20 years it's existed. Am I right in assuming that this is a pretty serious machine and I should probably be doing awesome stuff with it?

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

Slugworth posted:

I guess my question would be what the advantage to thjs plan is over just buying a cheap desk. Price wise you're probably neck and neck, and in the end you have a much heavier than necessary object which is also sort of ugly. If you were building a quick and dirty workbench for the garage, I think it would make more sense to me.

Mostly because I couldn't find a desk that would do everything I wanted until I hit the ~$500 range, and this project almost assuredly won't hit that price tag, or even half that. I don't mind it being heavy and I'm willing to put some time into fixing the ugly. What else am I going to do while stuck in my home? I can probably spend $50 and get three solid core doors that would give me enough material to do basically whatever I want with it, and still have $200 to build some legs and make it not ugly, in addition to getting it to fit into the space I want exactly, before I hit 50% of the "just buy it" plan.

One major thing is that I want an L shaped desk to accommodate a bunch of the junk that I otherwise have to keep in various places and would love to centralize, but the space I'm putting it in means that it won't be in a corner, only one side will fit against the wall. The back of most commercial L desks aren't finished, leaving me with bare particle board hanging around being ugly. Or I can just make it. This isn't just a stopgap "I need something until the office reopens" sort of plan, I also want a desk beyond that.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

I concur with the plywood recommendation. High-quality plywood with a gentle roundover looks good (so long as you don't mind the visible plies on the edges), takes finish well, and is definitely stronger than a door would be. Or if you're equipped to do more intensive woodworking, it's really not hard to make a solid wood desktop. Buy 4/4 lumber, edge join (biscuits/dowels aren't needed for strength since the glue surface area is so large), plane flat, sand, finish. You'll want some cross-supports underneath to help bear load, but you'd want that for any tabletop unless it's made from really beefy materials.

I'm not particularly well equipped, but I've been meaning to get more tools for a while. Trying to build a desk for cheaper than a commercial solution seems like a great reason to buy tools that cost more than a commercial desk. I have a reasonably ok miter saw, not enough clamps, the aforementioned scroll saw which is of tremendous use to building a desk I'm sure, and various hand tools. Time for a table saw?

Or I could just use plywood. And buy a table saw anyway.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

So if I want to buy a saw rail and a decent circular saw (I don't think I have the space for a decent table saw, especially if I need an outfeed table) is there a go-to circular saw model/manufacturer? My basic understanding of woodworking tools so far is Kreg makes really great pocket hole jigs and that I need more clamps.

Also is it better to just buy something like 3/4 inch mahogany plywood or do a 3/4 inch cheap thing and glue/affix a 1/4 inch mahogany face to it? Make something out of solid wood and face it? Is this the same as veneering or is 1/4 inch too thick to be considered veneer? Eventually I'll get around to installing sketchup and then agonize over plans, but not yet.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

Speaking of homebuilt desks, I haven't started mine yet. But I did put this together. There are some changes I already want to make but sketchup is not exactly the most user friendly interface for some of this stuff. (What you do you mean the maximum offset is 0??)

Dark brown is plywood, pink-ish color is 2x4, blue is 2x6. The grey things on the bottom are metal table stiffeners, which serve a secondary purpose of holding the side section on to the primary part. Because I might have to move this some day the two sections are built separately and just stuck together to form the L shape. As it's designed right now it's not reversible, but I could make it so with relatively few changes I think.





Ok, so. Questions. The monitor shelf is held up by four sections of 3/4" plywood. Are those sufficient or should I make the outer supports more robust? Secondly, where the primary section and the side section meet, should I stabilize the corner of the side section somehow beyond just the stiffeners? It's otherwise just sort of floating there unsupported and I feel like that might be a bad idea. Some sort of angle brace?


I also realized that I don't need full thickness plywood around the edges, so the skirting will probably be done with 3/8" or 1/4" plywood instead of the pictured 3/4".

Is there anything else that is glaringly obvious that I'm missing? Should I finish it with Minwax?

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

You don't need the 2x6 at the bottom unless it is because you like the look in which case great. I you do want to have it I would have the 2x4 legs go to the floor and use the 2x6 to fill in between them. Resting the 2x4 on top of the 2x6 seems precarious and unless they are very well attached, accidentally kicking the 2x6 seems like it might make the whole desk come tumbling down.

The monitor stand is fine, but attaching thin plywood to it all (or put triangular plywood gussets on the corners if you want it more open) from the back would make it much stronger/prevent racking. You could use 2x4s on flat instead of whatever metal braces you have drawn and I think it would be plenty strong and probably cheaper. I would move the braces/2x4 to the edge of the plywood to support the corner you are worried about. Might not look as clean, but it will keep that bit of ply from flopping around. I would consider adding a piece of plywood to the end cap on the right side like you have drawn on the left. It will make it much stronger. What you have drawn is fine though, and all these suggestions (except maybe taking it off the 2x6) are very much optional and will just make a strong thing even stronger for not much more work/materials.

If this is babby's first woodworking project, minwax and polyurethane are mandatory.

Ok, adjustments made to the legs/bottom parts, and some reinforcements for the primary section and the monitor stand. I didn't bother to change the metal stiffeners but it's easy enough to just use wood in the final build. I'm not certain this counts as my first project, I've built things before, frequently overbuilt stuff because I suffer from engineer brain. I made a cat tree like 13 years ago that would support at least 200 pounds of cats. I've refinished coffee tables, etc. This would probably be my first bit of actually nice human scale furniture from scratch though.











So mission creep has kicked in, and maybe I'm looking for too much here. On the secondary side there's a big slab of 3/4" ply, same as the desk surfaces. Ideally I'd like to find some sort of hinge solution so I could swing that up and turn the secondary section from a 2'x4' desk to a 4'x4' table for board games or something. It would need to have hinged legs for sure, I don't think I could find a bracing solution that would work for that. I'm also not sure how to find hinges for an application like that, ideally the panel would sit flush under the top of the desk when vertical (as pictured) and form a nearly seamless table when horizontal. I guess this would be some sort of heavy duty surface mount inset hinge? Looking for something like that has not been particularly fruitful. I could always just not do this because it's overly complex, or just settle for an offset and use less mysterious hinges.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

Wasabi the J posted:

That is venturing into a full-blown workbench, not that there's nothing wrong with that.

Don't envy you on moving day though.

I just bought a house and started a new job, so it's going to be here for a long time. And if I get moved for work they pay for movers, so I don't mind.

When do I just say gently caress it and laminate a bunch of lumber together for the top instead of using plywood? Is that after I figure out the hinges?

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

I. M. Gei posted:

How’d you do those images?

I’d love to do some poo poo like this one day.

They posted a brief bit about their marquetry work a few weeks back I think.

Meow Meow Meow posted:

Alright, here's my quick little marquetry tutorial. One of the main things I wished I knew before I had ever started was that it's super easy to cut by hand and you don't need a scrollsaw. A lot of guides recommend a scrollsaw, and if you don't have a really nice one it will make it frustrating. My first few attempts were using a crappy $20 used scroll saw and it made things harder than they really are.

There's the post.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

How do you guys transport sheet goods? I have two small-ish cars and neither of them will fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood by any means. Breaking them down in store with their saw is an option but I don't exactly think they are making precision cuts. Do I just plan for everything to be 23.5 inches instead of 24 and accept the loss?

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

savesthedayrocks posted:

Hadn’t thought about a backer. I do plan on having both outlets plugged in at all times.

Even with stuff plugged in you'll eventually get a ton of dust back behind the faceplate in the electrical box where the wires connect to the outlet. Not an ideal situation. One time I found a 240v box for an electric dryer that was full of accumulated laundry lint. Good times. That house had so many weird things in it.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

Thanks. A friend has one he uses for model making and he’s willing to try some stuff out for me, I just didn’t know if it was even worth trying. I’m trying to figure out how to do some marquetry lettering that doesn’t involve cutting 50 letters by hand. Sounds like it is probably better to cut the male and female parts separately instead of making a stack and cutting both at once like marquetry?

I think cutting both at once works because you can angle the saw to compensate for the kerf. If you can angle the cutting laser maybe the stack would work? I'm considering trying some marquetry with my scroll saw but also with my wife's cricut, which says it can cut balsa wood so I expect it would be enough to handle veneer as well.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

Mr. Mambold posted:





How hard/feasible/areyoueveninterested would it be to hinge the back and seat into a rollout sleeper?

Isn't that just a futon at that point?


If I have a budget of roughly $750 for a table saw (hah, I have spent so much more than just buying a desk at this point. Oh well) am I best served buying new or trawling through craigslist/FB marketplace/pawn shops for used saws?

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

JEEVES420 posted:

If you think you will only use a table saw to make 1 desk and never touch it again than your math works. Otherwise you are buying a tool to allow you to create many things and its value goes up significantly. A single project might be a good excuse to purchase a new tool but don't think of it in terms of x for y.

Oh, I'm joking. I have wanted to get into wood working for ages in a more serious capacity than I have been able to due to time and money constraints. But I'm working (from home even) now, out of graduate school, and need a solid impetus to clear out my garage so I can store more tools. I would love to be able to buy a crazy cabinet saw, I just don't have the space and that's definitely above the wife-threshold for objections. But at this point I've picked up several tools already that I can use for a lot of projects (ok, the sander is less universal than an impact driver or shopvac) and I'd like to get a decent table saw that will last me a while, but finding actual data I trust is hard. You guys seem reasonable and grounded, other forums get questions like mine and a bunch of people show up like "oh for under a grand/two grand you won't get a decent anything so gently caress that, your budget is dumb and you are dumb" and other related bullshit.

It may be that I could get a $300 saw and be fine, I don't actually know. I guess the most important thing is that the table is flat, the blade is true to the fence or vice versa, and that I get a better miter gauge than the stock one? I guess rip capacity over 24 inches might be useful in some applications, but I don't know if that's required or even very useful in reality.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

The junk collector posted:

You can get a perfectly adequate table saw on Craigslist for $50 if you just want occasional use. The true cost of a table saw isn't measured in dollars though, it's measured in space. How often would you use it, would you want to transport it, how much ease of use/quality of life do you want?

I hope I would use it at least a few times a month, minimum, and quite a bit more ideally. It would need to live on a rolling cart or something like that, my garage is just not big enough to have much of a dedicated space for anything. It's a one car space that the previous owner put a bunch of shelves into awkwardly and also needs to house a bunch of stuff that would usually go in a basement or attic, but both of those are unusable or non-existent for me.

Beyond rolling around in the garage when I need it/store it it wouldn't need to go very far. I'm not trying to build stuff on site like a contractor or anything. Also craigslist around here hasn't had anything amazing, just someone trying to sell a $300 dewalt saw for 450 and a super old craftsman thing that I can't find any data for.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

So someone a few cities to the south is selling a shopsmith table saw. What the hell is this thing?




E: Ok, so google appears to think it is a mark V table saw/lathe combo. Huh. If these are solid tools I might consider this (lathe? Sure). It apparently comes with the bandsaw you can see on the right as well.

Olothreutes fucked around with this message at 21:56 on May 10, 2020

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

JEEVES420 posted:

Was an attempt at a tool to do everything off one motor, lathe/plane/saw/etc. It does everything mediocre with no safety features (just look at the saw blade).

Edit: FWIW I have heard it is more frustration than worth it.

Yeah that blade is just asking for a hand to chew on, holy poo poo. At least I won't have to figure out how to transport it many miles. Thanks for the input. I found a rigid saw at an estate sale, but it's technically an auction and has like two weeks left on it so who knows how much it'll actually cost.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

I think I'm going to pass on that thing, it sounds neat but looks like more than I need and a hassle to actually get home let alone use.

On the other hand there's an auction right now with a Ridgid TS3650, which comes with almost exclusively good reviews but no riving knife. I figure if I can walk away with that for like 200 or less that's probably the way to go.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

I guess I might as well ask about this saw. It's a TS3650 and is part of an estate sale auction with an opening bid of $150. Is it worth bidding on?

I'm pretty sure I can ask questions to the auction people, their only comment so far is that it powers on.


Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

mds2 posted:

It looks like it sat outside in the rain.

Yeah that rust is rather worrying. I was hoping I could just take it off with some steel wool, but if it's too deep it would probably make the table uneven.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

I live in the desert southwest, which makes that table saw rust all the more impressive.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

serious gaylord posted:

I took a break from the inside, and built the wife a potting bench with some free plans I found online. I really enjoyed this one since I didn't have to be as precise.





I accidentally showed this to my wife (I was trying to show her the tensegrity table, which I also want to try) and she'd like one. Do you have the plans handy? I'm probably going to end up making this in the near future.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

serious gaylord posted:

Here you go.

I modified mine a fair bit as I had to make do with what I had available due to the current situation, but they're pretty comprehensive.

https://www.familyhandyman.com/garden/how-to-build-a-cedar-potting-bench/

Thank you. I'll be sure to post some shots when it's done.

I've been trying to figure out how to build that tensegrity table with magnets instead of the central wire (for maximum wtf), but magnetic fields drop off really quickly and finding magnets that are strong enough without being comically large and absurdly dangerous is hard. I don't want to resort to solid core electromagnets, a table that has to be plugged in is silly. Anyone have any ideas beyond giving up or having a really small gap? 1 to 2 inches of gap might be doable with permanent magnets but I figure that's so small that the visual effect is lost.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

serious gaylord posted:

The central point takes the most stress. I had to modify mine so I could triple up the fishing line as it kept snapping when I was tightening the outside points to get it square. I don't think you'd be able to do this with magnets.

I'm almost certain that the middle section takes all the stress, the outer wires are just guy-wires. They really just keep it from pivoting and falling around the middle point. So you need a central wire that's strong enough to support the weight of the table and anything you set on it with no other assistance. For the magnets It really depends on what sort of gap I want. If I'm willing to spend like $700 on magnets (I'm not) I can get roughly 100 pounds of force with a three inch gap. If I decide to go with solid core electromagnets then I have other issues, like both parts of the table needing to be plugged in to receive power, and also a table that generates a magnetic field strong enough to erase your credit cards if you set your wallet on it. And crashes to the floor if the power goes out.

That actually sounds really funny, in a very dumb way. "If you have a pacemaker please stay at least six feet away from this side table at all times, thanks."

E: actually now that I think about it, if I just stack up some additional magnets and widen the surface area of the support points I could probably get this to work. I'll have to think on it some more.

Olothreutes fucked around with this message at 00:00 on May 17, 2020

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

There are examples of the tensegrity tables using magnets instead of a physical line, but they're all pretty small and are more of a desktop proof of concept than a piece of furniture. In this case the magnetic attraction gives you some amount of force that will function as a tensile member. It's just a tensile member that has a known and hopefully constant value, which doesn't scale the same way a physical wire does.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

I also ran into the mysterious HD cancellation issue, but only a single item from my order was cancelled. When I went to pick up the rest of it they were getting hammered at curbside (or just woefully understaffed, or both) and there was a line probably 100 people long to get in to the store. If I was some random guy who was staring at a line of 20+ cars idling in the heat and triple my normal volume of online orders I'd definitely be grabbing poo poo as fast as I can, if it's not immediately visible and I have to grab a ladder or whatever to go track that poo poo down it's just not in stock right now. I don't blame them, either. I do blame HD at large though.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

The Slack Lagoon posted:

I made a little table for our outside covered porch. What's a good finish to put on it to help with being outside?

At the risk of being excommunicated, paint?

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

His Divine Shadow posted:

Sure linseed oil paint.

If you want something that will truly last forever, I recommend fire hydrant paint. I spent a summer in high school repainting fire hydrants for the county, that poo poo will never come off.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

Yeah I wouldn't be worried about moisture problems here, we had a whopping 10% humidity today. But our UV exposure is insane.

Also I don't actually recommend fire hydrant paint. It's expensive and the color selection is, uh, limited. It will survive 3+ years with no maintenance exposed to the weather though.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

Hasselblad posted:

Yet they needed repainted. :thunk:

One of the things I recall about 1976, is that all of the fire hydrants were pained as revolutionary soldiers.
Was a groovy time to be alive.

I'm not sure if I'm supposed to reply to this as though it's serious?

But the conditions for a fire hydrant in upstate NY, in one of the snowiest cities in the US, are very different from a table on a covered patio. Also fire hydrants, by necessity of their function, live in high traffic areas and near roads and are in the weather 100% of the time. You repaint them because they have minimum required visibility and the accumulation of grime, salt, and mechanical damage from gravel or whatever means the paint gets chipped or covered. It takes a steel wire brush to get some of that grime off, which also removes paint. Hydrants that were in very low traffic areas like minor rural roads or whatever didn't get repainted as frequently as the ones on major roads.

I don't fully get the hatred for paint on something like pine you bought at home depot, I wouldn't paint over tropical hardwood or something though. Also I learned that linseed oil paint is a thing because of all this, which is cool.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

I was given an old coffee table that needs a lot of help. I'm going to have to remove a bunch of metal hardware and some drawers and refinish basically the whole thing. The big question I have is about the top. It looks like it has an epoxy or resin layer maybe 2 or 3 mm thick that has cracked in several places. How the hell do I get that off the table? Is there a solvent that will strip it, or am I stuck trying to scrape it off?

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

I can't speak to how it is for turning, but palm trees have a fundamentally different internal structure than other trees. They're monocots instead of dicots, so they'll probably be real fibrous and pithy like a corn stalk on steroids. I'm sure people use it for lumber, but it won't have any heartwood (or knots) and I suspect it'll be a pain in the rear end to work and prone to splitting.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

I had some red oak boards that have been in my garage for a few years. I needed to build a quick frame to replace a box spring and holy poo poo it's harder than I expected. Am I doing something wrong or should my drill bit come out smoking?

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

Jhet posted:

You might want a sharp drill bit.

I had wondered if that was part of the issue. I've never bothered to get actual high quality bits, I just have a bunch and don't use them very frequently so I assumed it was probably still sharp.

E: So I just inherited a bunch of antique furniture and there's one item that I can't figure out. Any chance you all can identify bizarre antique furniture?

Olothreutes fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Jun 29, 2020

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

Jhet posted:

It's just rubbing on the wood instead of drilling through it which will make it heat up and start to smoke (like you're starting a fire, because you technically are doing that thing). You can try to sharpen it if you have the equipment for it too. It's just the cutting edge at the end of the bit that should need sharpening.

E: I can't ID furniture necessarily, but there's a lot of people itt that probably would have an idea.

There were other sorts of wood I was also using, mostly old slats from the bedframe itself, which the bit went through with no issue. It was just the oak that gave it problems. But it probably is a sharpness issue, it's not a high quality bit by any means.


Mystery cabinet:




I know next to nothing about it. I'm 90% sure my grandmother bought it from an antiques store in the Ohio/Indiana area at some point. Beyond that there's nothing. I looked for some sort of mark to say who made it and couldn't find anything. I've never seen anything else like it.

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

anatomi posted:

Interesting. Looks like a dresser to me, but maybe not for clothes but rather table cloths and such? No soft lining, so probably hasn't been used to store dinnerware.

Sorry for spit-balling, I've no educated guess.

No, spitballing is totally fine. I had actually wondered if the soft lining hadn't been removed or lost at some point in the past, it does sort of seem like a place to store your sterling silverware and such.

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Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

Thanks! I'm certainly going to hold on to it, it's a neat piece and has a lot of memory attached to it. And it's not made of particle board which makes me real happy. Still not sure what I'm going to store in it, but I'll find something. I also got a pie safe, which is a hilarious piece of furniture imo.

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