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Still, it was only about 4 years ago that the best computer was maybe 16 kyu. Pretty amazing growth if you ask me.
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Dec 12, 2008 21:04
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4 years ago the best computer was around 6 - 8 kyu (gnugo). For a long time a computers strength was its pattern database & ability to outplay tactically. The main advancement Mogo brings is a remarkable global sensibility. Just as gnugo could reliably beat 6 kyus at least half the time by winning most tactical fights, mogo can now reliably beat 2 kyus at least half the time because it will form vast central frameworks in reply to any slack play. There's no smooth gradient of advancement here, Mogo represents a big step forward, but to advance into the dan ranks both a good global sense & unerringly sharp tactics are needed, and I would be surprised to see a 6 dan computer in ten years! Maybe not twenty though..
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Dec 12, 2008 21:17
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There was a news story recently about a program that beat a Japanese pro in a 9-stone handicap game. It must have been that one, I assume. EDIT: Yeah, article about it here. EDIT 2: Does anyone know if this screenshot is of an actual program you can play on? 
Urban Renewal fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Dec 12, 2008 |
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Dec 12, 2008 21:36
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that's a screenshot of the igs client glGo, it has a 3d board option
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Dec 12, 2008 21:42
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sensual donkey punching posted:that's a screenshot of the igs client glGo, it has a 3d board option sweet I've been thinking of making an IGS account for all the wacky poo poo that goes on in there
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Dec 12, 2008 21:45
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sensual donkey punching posted:4 years ago the best computer was around 6 - 8 kyu (gnugo). For a long time a computers strength was its pattern database & ability to outplay tactically. The main advancement Mogo brings is a remarkable global sensibility. Just as gnugo could reliably beat 6 kyus at least half the time by winning most tactical fights, mogo can now reliably beat 2 kyus at least half the time because it will form vast central frameworks in reply to any slack play. There's no smooth gradient of advancement here, Mogo represents a big step forward, but to advance into the dan ranks both a good global sense & unerringly sharp tactics are needed, and I would be surprised to see a 6 dan computer in ten years! Maybe not twenty though.. Maybe I was thinking 5 years ago? I just remember all the go programs when I first started playing being real crappy and the strongest bot on KGS was 16 kyu.
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Dec 12, 2008 22:04
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I think during the last US Go Congress they had a professional play Mogo while it was linked up to 700 super computers or something ridiculous like that. It beat a 9d professional with a 9 stone handicap. The pro said it played around 2-3d level but that occasionally it made 6d or so moves. We're still a long way off from having strong computer opponents that anyone can download and play. Edit: Yeah bots are mostly around 6k now as far as I know, so you must have been thinking way back.
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Dec 12, 2008 22:58
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http://senseis.xmp.net/?GNUGo there's a history of kgs ranks, i overestimated its strength 4 years ago but it was not quite as weak as 16 kyu even 5 years ago either
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Dec 12, 2008 22:59
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years ago when I got into go and was like a ~20k on KGS I'd boast to people that I could beat any go program in the whole world 
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Dec 12, 2008 23:02
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sensual donkey punching posted:http://senseis.xmp.net/?GNUGo I suspect the ranks in that KGS article are under the old KGS kyu system before they compressed it down. Playing Mogo or any monte carlo program really feels different from Gnu go. It doesn't throw away the game by ignoring threats to its groups as often, but in addition to the dan level framework building and life and death it does play weird influence moves a ton.
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Dec 13, 2008 04:21
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I missed the game where mogobot beat the pro at 9h, but I did see a game where a pro played mogobot with 7h and mogobot played a failed ladder to the edge of the board. This was on a supercomputer with eight hundred 4ghz cores. The monte carlo programs are weird like that; I heard that mogobot's developers actually found they were better off not giving it specific information, because once a player figured out mogobot's 'rules', they would immediately start playing the exceptions. It's hard to program an open approach 
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Dec 13, 2008 05:10
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I am picking up the game after not playing for about a year. Hope to see you guys in the room. My name is Bruinfix on KGS. I am willing to teach or review games with people. My skill level is probably a low digit kyu player.
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Dec 14, 2008 16:25
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bruinfix posted:I am picking up the game after not playing for about a year. Ditto. I'm pretty pleased with my first game back, versus an unranked player on KGS (won by about 85 points):  I'll try hard to play one game a day before work. Maybe that'll get me to stick with it.
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Dec 15, 2008 08:38
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Urban Renewal posted:Not to interrupt this game but I'd like to have some GO BOOK CHAT. I am thinking of maybe picking up some books during christmas sales and I am wondering what I should get.
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Dec 15, 2008 08:47
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here are some moves ::: 
Howard fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Dec 16, 2008 |
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Dec 15, 2008 23:52
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e10 woss
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Dec 16, 2008 11:53
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e9 it is i guess
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Dec 17, 2008 18:53
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 This is the game as it is, Woss has some decisions to make. I believe the "wedge" move at D9 is the severest, and requires the ladders to work, which I believe they do for black. Your turn Woss
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Dec 24, 2008 07:14
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Merry Christmas Jon!! I believe this position calls for calculation so i probably wont move for a few days at least
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Dec 24, 2008 21:14
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Hurry up Woss I want to resume the game!
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Jan 7, 2009 18:46
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Is there a good guide for territory control and dead stones out there on the net? I played a few games after reading a small introductory text bought at a random store, but I still can't figure out how dead stones exactly work. Sometimes one player surrounds the other, which itself was surrounding the first player. Or sometimes two territories intersect and it's unclear who owns what. That's the sort of thing that pretty much stopped me from playing more because I had no idea how to handle these cases.
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Jan 9, 2009 00:42
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DreadCthulhu posted:Is there a good guide for territory control and dead stones out there on the net? I played a few games after reading a small introductory text bought at a random store, but I still can't figure out how dead stones exactly work. Sometimes one player surrounds the other, which itself was surrounding the first player. Or sometimes two territories intersect and it's unclear who owns what. That's the sort of thing that pretty much stopped me from playing more because I had no idea how to handle these cases. KGS has a good guide that is interactive [http://www.gokgs.com/tutorial/index.jsp]. I hope that would help. You can also go on KGS join the SA room under social and ask for help. I would be willing to help you out KGS handle is Bruinfix. Frankly I need some practice teaching people how to play from the beginning because I don't have that calm non disjointed method down yet.
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Jan 9, 2009 02:45
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Speaking of interactive Go tutorials, I found http://playgo.to/interactive/ much more useful in terms of remembering the rules than just reading text.
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Jan 9, 2009 20:24
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helopticor posted:Speaking of interactive Go tutorials, I found http://playgo.to/interactive/ much more useful in terms of remembering the rules than just reading text. link is highly recommended, since this poo poo is so basic that anyone who has played longer than a month would have difficulty articulating it. Go through this once, play a game or three, go through it again, and you will have a pretty good idea of the most basic game mechanics. This won't save you from losing like a bitch over and over again, but with the tutorial out of the way it will be possible for us to explain to you what is happening. This would not be an option if you just sat down and said "ok lets do this"
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Jan 10, 2009 04:26
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D10
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Jan 10, 2009 19:31
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d8
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Jan 11, 2009 00:49
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Man, I had forgotten all about Go up until a few weeks ago, when they started running this Dominoe's commercial, where the "World's Smartest Man" is sitting there playing it with a fifth grader -- and I noticed it. I've got a folding board and stones around here somewhere, but the board has some smoke damage on it from a fire in my apartment complex. I'm gonna be terrible at it, now.
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Jan 11, 2009 22:30
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Namaste posted:Man, I had forgotten all about Go up until a few weeks ago, when they started running this Dominoe's commercial, where the "World's Smartest Man" is sitting there playing it with a fifth grader -- and I noticed it. I, too, noticed that and also the incongruence of the World's Smartest Man playing as black.
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Jan 13, 2009 23:38
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Pillow Face posted:I, too, noticed that and also the incongruence of the World's Smartest Man playing as black. The kid is actually smarter but since he's not technically "a man" the title still holds
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Jan 14, 2009 21:49
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I signed up for a KGS account a while ago, lost a few games, got discouraged, and put it aside. Recently I've been wanting to play again so I fired up CGoban and it matched me with an 18k. Somehow I managed to beat her and I was feeling pretty good about it until I checked her user info.
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Jan 14, 2009 23:19
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Hey Foggy, you got a problem with her majestys dog?
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Jan 15, 2009 01:01
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Sartak posted:Hey Foggy, you got a problem with her majestys dog? Oh no, it's Tsubasa Resovoir Chronicals I can't stand.
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Jan 15, 2009 01:46
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its an unfortunate truth of online Go that someone being a terrible person does not preclude them from being decent at the game :/
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Jan 15, 2009 18:37
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She likes Beyblade better than Hikaru no Go?!?!?! Ban her from KGS.
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Jan 15, 2009 18:49
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she also listed "Battle B-daman" which sounds like a really sweet anime
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Jan 15, 2009 18:55
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finally just read all the posts. i signed up on KGS (same username) and played a few games. thanks for those that played some teaching games with me. hope to get back on tonight and get beaten down over and over. i mainly play bots, and while it's not super helpful igowin is helpful (made it to avg 10kyu, can get to 8kyu and then loss big time). really glad i found this topic, been meaning to learn go since jr high 10 years ago.
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Jan 15, 2009 19:12
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Just wanted to let everyone know that after a long game with Helsbecter involving several large fights I lost by .5 points ;_;
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Jan 15, 2009 22:57
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I was at my college library yesterday looking for a useful go book. While I didn't find any, I did come across something called The Protracted Game; A Wei-chʻi Interpretation of Maoist Revolutionary Strategy by Scott A. Boorman. It's (as you might expect) a detailed analysis of Mao's military strategy and how it uses various go techniques, complete with illustrated go games opposite military maps of occupied territory in China with analogous situations. Worth picking up if you're into completely insane board-game-based military history.
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Jan 16, 2009 05:03
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Foggy posted:I was at my college library yesterday looking for a useful go book. While I didn't find any, I did come across something called The Protracted Game; A Wei-chʻi Interpretation of Maoist Revolutionary Strategy by Scott A. Boorman. It's (as you might expect) a detailed analysis of Mao's military strategy and how it uses various go techniques, complete with illustrated go games opposite military maps of occupied territory in China with analogous situations. Worth picking up if you're into completely insane board-game-based military history. Yeah that sounds like a big stretch except in the vaguest sense or they picked one game out of the thousands and thousands of go games that is somehow kind of similar. "Then Mao, much like a play at 3-3 against a star point, invaded behind enemy lines."  sensual donkey punching posted:D10 Howard posted:d8 Play faster, it's an interesting game so far. BLITZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
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Jan 16, 2009 07:18
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Hey, just saw this thread. I've been playing for a few months now, and I'm about 12k on KGS as digbybare. Is SA still the room?
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Jan 16, 2009 07:26
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