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AdorableStar posted:Wasuji had cut on the wrong side and I ended with sente - I played the large knight's enclosure to "pressure" the m3 stone and get myself an enclosure at the same time. Seems like a reasonable move to me. I'm not worried if B wants to play J3... a two-space extension doesn't qualify as a base when it's undercut by an immediately adjacent ponnuki like that. I'd actually prefer to play the three space extension as B because it's lighter. Or more likely cut at O5 and abandon M3 for the time being. If W wanted to play again on the lower side to capture it, there's still an invasion in the lower left because of the loose shimari. I'm kinda tempted to play O7 as W, but probably a shimari of some sort is better.
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Oct 15, 2014 01:14
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 11:54 |
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Here is a review for uranus. I don't normally review games that are quite so one-sided, but uranus deserves a review, and there are good things to learn from here, and given the rank difference and the fact that he doesn't like handicap, it'll likely be a while before we have any much closer results. http://eidogo.com/#1foeBztta I'd be fascinated to know what optimal play for both players would have been in the ko that arose at the end. As I say in the comments, it seems like it could have gone on for a long time with both players playing local ko threats.
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Oct 15, 2014 01:18
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wow thanks so much for that xopods! I don't know why i didnt think i could run with that group. i think i got too discouraged by not being able to live that i somehow forgot to look for ways to run.
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Oct 15, 2014 05:54
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uranus posted:wow thanks so much for that xopods! I don't know why i didnt think i could run with that group. i think i got too discouraged by not being able to live that i somehow forgot to look for ways to run. In 80% of cases it's better to try to run first anyway. Getting sealed in is no good. Of course, the reason I killed your eyeshape instead of sealing in was because in that case I felt it was going to be more profitable to chase than to seal in. But you were too heavy before then anyway, which is the problem. Usual order of priorities is: Make a base (eyespace + access to the centre) Play lightly/make shape Run Live I didn't show a variation for running in the SGF for some reason, but the most obvious thing would be to attach on top of my two-stone pillar at Q12. If I hane at Q11 then you can make a table shape. Of course, there are other things I can do, like hane inside or clamping, but I don't think I can stop you from escaping. xopods fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Oct 15, 2014 |
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Oct 15, 2014 13:34
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Hey kids, guess what time it is? It's time for another direction of play problem. This is from my latest game with oiseaux. I did a full review which I'll post, but let's talk about this specific position first. There's a lot going on here. It's Black to play. What's his best move? Also, who do you prefer here, Black or White? 
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Oct 16, 2014 21:13
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I'm not impressed by Black's results on what seems to have been White's side of the board, but it IS Black's move... My analysis of the upper left is that B b12 lives; if W b12, then White solidifies the top as Black flees. B g4 momentarily tempted me but on second thought I don't think White's cut would be that good. I think it's between b12 and r3?
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Oct 16, 2014 21:58
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I think I would r3. I like cash. If White gets b12 and the top, so be it. I guess I like Black's prospects on this board.
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Oct 16, 2014 22:03
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The problem with B12 is that, if it's answered, it loses the option to play B11 and attack White/force him to connect on the first line in gote. Conversely, the problem with B11 is: (a) that it lets White get in a peep at E8 which he missed out on earlier (and which will only be answered at a time when letting White capture two stones would have life-and-death implications rather than just points, and (b) that rather than connecting, White may decide to run first... if Black doesn't then play B12, he's induced White to attack him. And of course, if he does, then he's ended in gote. That whole situation is more subtle than it looks, so I'm inclined to leave it. I considered several moves in the vicinity of R3 in my analysis, but ultimately decided that's not where I would play, tempting as it is. You're not tempted by any omoyo style moves? There are several available...
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Oct 16, 2014 22:11
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xopods posted:
J10.  J8 for a more conservative omoyo just because it has a large knight relationship with a nearby stone.Also, when defending our 3-3 point, isn't it better to play a move like Q3 instead of the 3-3 directly?
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Oct 16, 2014 22:35
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AdorableStar posted:J10. These are similar to what oiseaux actually played, but I feel they're actually too small in scale, and too vague. You don't want to just plunk a stone down in the middle of the board and go "there, I've got a moyo," you want to be building your moyo while accomplishing other things. For instance, although it's not what I would play, the biggest-scale moyo move would be something like K15. quote:Also, when defending our 3-3 point, isn't it better to play a move like Q3 instead of the 3-3 directly? I prefer Q3 to R3, yes, but it has problems... thing is there isn't really one move in the lower right that solves all our problems there and with Q11 on the right, so I prefer to leave that part of the board for now. Also, White's in no huge hurry to invade there anyway, as it makes it that much harder to pull out Q11.
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Oct 16, 2014 23:27
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I say H5. With that move, black welds his weak group there onto his moyo and makes something so big that white is forced to invade somehow. White will probably end in gote, so it's all good. Black can still outbuild white at this point, so I don't think he should do anything else. White's biggest positive spot is like k15, which can wait a few moves. All of w's moves will be negative for the time being and Black should take advantage
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Oct 17, 2014 00:54
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Under 15 posted:I say H5. With that move, black welds his weak group there onto his moyo and makes something so big that white is forced to invade somehow. White will probably end in gote, so it's all good. This was, ultimately, the move I came up with in the review. Aside from simply being a strong double-purpose move, it works particularly well if Black then gets to play E11 and then double-hane at F10. Here is the full review: http://eidogo.com/#pI7HhWPF
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Oct 17, 2014 12:37
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Thanks xops. On review, I decided that G4 was the best move I could think of, although H5 looks superior, I'm still glad I came to a reasonably similar conclusion as you guys. It's a really hard position for me to evaluate and I can say I didn't take much pleasure from playing around tengen in the actual game
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Oct 17, 2014 13:26
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Also I can't say how wise D7 was but I was happy because it felt like a move that at the very least was not complying with White's agenda G13 was a mistake, I would have exchanged if I was paying attention o.m. 94 fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 13:32
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o.m. 94 posted:Thanks xops. On review, I decided that G4 was the best move I could think of, although H5 looks superior, I'm still glad I came to a reasonably similar conclusion as you guys. It's a really hard position for me to evaluate and I can say I didn't take much pleasure from playing around tengen in the actual game G4 was a move I was thinking of as well when I noticed white's empty triangle elephant eye poke was there. I guess it's bad because the cut could be exploitable in the future/it's weaker/white peeping through would just help your moyo?
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Oct 17, 2014 21:58
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AdorableStar posted:G4 was a move I was thinking of as well when I noticed white's empty triangle elephant eye poke was there. I guess it's bad because the cut could be exploitable in the future/it's weaker/white peeping through would just help your moyo? Yeah, the fact that it's cuttable is the problem. H5 instead allows the double (aka "tower") peep of course, but H3 is very much disposable and Black can get even thicker in sacrificing it. Also, with G4, if White cuts, you pretty much have to atari at G6 for the shape of the group above, but then after W pulls out, your two stones below have the usual kosumi-tsuke problem with shortage of liberties.
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Oct 17, 2014 22:15
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I want to learn how to play this game. Are there are any recommended videos that explain the rules/moves etc before I jump into the tutorial?
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Oct 19, 2014 17:47
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PaganGoatPants posted:I want to learn how to play this game. Are there are any recommended videos that explain the rules/moves etc before I jump into the tutorial? http://playgo.to/iwtg/en/ http://www.gokgs.com/tutorial/
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Oct 19, 2014 17:53
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hey hey everyone everyone join the sa tournament on ogs. http://online-go.com/tournament/3203 also the sa group http://online-go.com/group/8
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Oct 19, 2014 23:57
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Just wanted to share: Me and my friend were in Costa Rica and we needed to do something on rainy days or between stuff. I drew a go board on a big piece of paper and we collected some white and black rocks. I wish I had taken a picture.
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Oct 20, 2014 01:08
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haul from the used bookstore:  part of me feels guilty about taking beginner books that would probably better benefit a true beginner. Most of me just wants to collect all go books.
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Oct 20, 2014 06:06
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uranus posted:hey hey everyone everyone OGS is for babies who can't handle a little bit of blitz 
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Oct 20, 2014 07:07
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uranus posted:haul from the used bookstore: I got this bug recently and bought a bunch of beginner books too - but I'm glad I did. The Janice Kim series are really well written and presented books and it was a stern reminder how much basic stuff I had forgotten. I don't think there's any problem with reading and re-reading beginners books, because they're fucken easy to read, so it's quick, but there's always one or two things in them you forget about.
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Oct 20, 2014 12:26
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IMlemon posted:OGS is for babies who can't handle a little bit of blitz You can play blitz on OGS
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Oct 20, 2014 12:27
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o.m. 94 posted:I got this bug recently and bought a bunch of beginner books too - but I'm glad I did. The Janice Kim series are really well written and presented books and it was a stern reminder how much basic stuff I had forgotten. I don't think there's any problem with reading and re-reading beginners books, because they're fucken easy to read, so it's quick, but there's always one or two things in them you forget about. The second book of Go is always a good book.
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Oct 20, 2014 13:28
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IMlemon posted:OGS is for babies who can't handle a little bit of blitz ogs is for people unable to sit and focus for 30-40 minutes without being interrupted constantly.
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Oct 20, 2014 17:51
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Word up gangsters, Oromedia went out of print last year so here's a chance to get these now-out-of-print books at a marked down price: https://shop.gogameguru.com/go-books/?p=1
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Oct 21, 2014 12:47
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I have been wondering about the endgame for the L+2 group recently. Normally white will hane in from the side because it is massively sente. But what is black's best local move here, and how large is it actually? The group you get if black plays the hane on both ends is actually seki for example, so that can't really be the best outcome.
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Oct 21, 2014 14:43
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I'm going to guess the 1-2 point on B1.
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Oct 21, 2014 14:58
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Also if you imagine the shape of the corner after both hane's have been played, it's clearly the vital point. You don't even need to visualise white 2 and 4, just the black stones extending to the edge of the board. 
AdorableStar fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Oct 21, 2014 |
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Oct 21, 2014 23:30
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AdorableStar posted:Also if you imagine the shape of the corner after both hane's have been played, it's clearly the vital point. You don't even need to visualise white 2 and 4, just the black stones extending to the edge of the board. I am idiot, but the gist of this is that the most important move for black to make is to play A18 or B18 to ensure two eyes before C3 or A16?
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Oct 22, 2014 03:11
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Pander posted:I am idiot, but the gist of this is that the most important move for black to make is to play A18 or B18 to ensure two eyes before C3 or A16? A18 is the shape move for easy life, yes. Just imagine that double table shape.
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Oct 22, 2014 03:53
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AdorableStar posted:A18 is the shape move for easy life, yes. Just imagine that double table shape. What's double table shape mean?
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Oct 22, 2014 17:56
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Pander posted:What's double table shape mean? This is the best shape to make an eye - A is the vital point. 
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Oct 22, 2014 23:45
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AdorableStar posted:This is the best shape to make an eye - A is the vital point. Except without that black stone in the lower right corner. I mean, it could be there, but you've already got bad shape if it is. More usually that will be a White stone instead and then A is extra urgent, since for White to play there would be the eye-stealing tesuji.
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Oct 23, 2014 20:11
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tonberrytoby posted:I have been wondering about the endgame for the L+2 group recently. Like anything else is probably depends somewhat on surroundings, but I will almost always play the 1-2 point as Khel says. After that, both sides are probably Black's sente while White has no further moves, so Black should get both later... it's possible you could have something funny going on outside that would make blocking (or maybe even sagari on the opposite side) preferable, but usually there's no reason either of those would be better than just playing 1-2 to live immediately and then playing the atari and opposite side hane in sente later. EDIT: Oh, I misread the question, you're talking about if B plays first, without W hane. You would normally play one hane in sente and then not play the other one because it is gote. At least, not before the board cools to the point that a 2 point reverse sente move is worth playing, at which point you'd hane and connect (assuming White needs to connect to avoid the atari rather than immediately hitting the vital point and then take gote to prevent the seki. xopods fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Oct 23, 2014 |
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Oct 23, 2014 20:16
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xopods posted:Like anything else is probably depends somewhat on surroundings, but I will almost always play the 1-2 point as Khel says. After that, both sides are probably Black's sente while White has no further moves, so Black should get both later... it's possible you could have something funny going on outside that would make blocking (or maybe even sagari on the opposite side) preferable, but usually there's no reason either of those would be better than just playing 1-2 to live immediately and then playing the atari and opposite side hane in sente later. I think I was trying to explain that the 1-2 point was the easy shape for life, not because it's the 1-2 point, but because if you visualise a black stone running to the edge of the board, it's clearly the vital point of the double table shape. If that helps anyone.
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Oct 23, 2014 22:49
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pyf shape
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Oct 24, 2014 00:44
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uranus posted:pyf shape 
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Oct 24, 2014 00:49
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 11:54 |
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uranus posted:pyf shape 
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Oct 24, 2014 01:07
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