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just to be thorough, idk your experience level and i don't wanna talk down to you, but in my experience "the drill is taking forever to make very limited progress" is usually an issue of user technique first, typically not bearing down hard enough to make the cutting edges 'dive in' and create a chip instead of deflecting off and just rubbing, burnishing + grinding material away while creating a ton of heat and noise. Doesn't sound like the problem if you're also using carbide drills and know to add 3-in-1 oil, though. In which case Samuel L. Hacksaw posted:The tip grind is all wrong on most store bought drills. this is the usual culprit, for cheap import tooling anyways. Buy a pack of 10 and at least 2 or 3 will often be duds, with the cutting centre visibly off-centre and one edge longer than the other, or yeah, a 'rounding-off' of the edge grind that removes any clearance behind the leading edge, and which mechanically prevents the edge from ever "digging in" as required.
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Nov 23, 2021 22:58
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I kinda want to see pics of the drill and workpiece to try and CSI reconstruct what the issue is.
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Nov 23, 2021 23:35
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Ambrose Burnside posted:just to be thorough, idk your experience level and i don't wanna talk down to you, but in my experience "the drill is taking forever to make very limited progress" is usually an issue of user technique first, typically not bearing down hard enough to make the cutting edges 'dive in' and create a chip instead of deflecting off and just rubbing, burnishing + grinding material away while creating a ton of heat and noise. Doesn't sound like the problem if you're also using carbide drills and know to add 3-in-1 oil, though. In which case I don't have a ton of experience drilling metal, but I have some. As I said, I did a 5/8 hole in railroad steel a week ago to make a doweling setup for another project. Of course, that steel isn't hardened, so the cutlery steel is a new journey for me. Here are a few things: I'm using a cheap benchtop drill press and I'm bearing down as hard as I can without the work holding platform and drill bit visibly shifting/bending, and I'll have at it until the work piece starts to heat up, at which point I've been walking away, letting it cool and adding more oil when I resume. Not enough pressure is definitely not the problem. I'm not using a carbide bit yet - I'm still using the cheap "titianium coated" bit from my 150 pieces for $30 drill and driver kit from Canadian Tire. I went through all of my various detritus boxes and reorged my bits today and couldn't find another appropriately sized bit. Next time I drive by the other hardware store I'll snag a new one. I might just go with a black oxide one seeing as I only need two holes total and they're pretty affordable. There is noise though: I put ear protection on. It's nasty. But it can't be that there's shavings in the way because I have been clearing it and I'm actually drilling through and resizing an existing hole, so the shavings are clearing pretty well on their own. BTW I said the hole was 8mm before; that's wrong - it's 5/32. "8mm" was a brain fart.
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Nov 23, 2021 23:52
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Depending on the size of the existing hole and how big you want it to become, a small (possibly tapered to get started) grinding stone on a dremel might be the fastest way to enlarge it, especially since the ultimate hole will be covered by the new handle. Not something I'd do for a bunch of holes but if it is just two or three it won't take that long and you won't have to worry about messing up the temper on the blade.
Wanderless fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 01:03
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CommonShore posted:I'm still using the cheap "titianium coated" bit from my 150 pieces for $30 drill and driver kit from Canadian Tire. There’s your problem. Those bits are trash and only marginally good for soft materials. Sharpening them might work but most of the ones I have tried are cheese grade steel and immediately dull. It is difficult to convey just how much better the name brand bits cut. If you can find a machine shop supplier you can get individual bits for reasonable prices. Sounds like your local hardware store might be a good option. As long as it is not princess auto as their individual bits are no better than the crappy tire ones. One of the best things I finally bought for myself was a complete set of Dormer drill indexes. Life it too short to deal with crappy drill bits.
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Nov 24, 2021 05:52
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ZincBoy posted:There’s your problem. Those bits are trash and only marginally good for soft materials. Sharpening them might work but most of the ones I have tried are cheese grade steel and immediately dull. That's what I was saying all along with the potato bit: the Canadian Tire bits have served me well enough for drilling wood, but hardened steel has proven a different story. I just wasn't sure how much better I'd need for getting where I need to go. The store in question is Peavy Mart (so semi-local anyway) and they have quite a few brands of bits in a good selection. In fact, they have a milwaukee titanium set on sale right now at a decent price - y/n avoid? What should I look for in a better-tier set of bits for drilling metal?
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Nov 24, 2021 06:02
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How would you grind & lap a small steel surface flat in a very barebones shop? I bought a cheap french skiver for leatherworking and I'd like to lap the cutting edge. The problem? It's between two rails, effectively, so the surface I'd be lapping it on has to be narrow enough to fit between them. Towards that end, I decided to make a jig for this out of some stock from work. Skiver on the left, shopmade sharpening tool in progress on the right.  I found some 316 (?) stainless rod near the size I need, and I brought it to the belt sander & grinding wheel to take it to rough shape & dimension. The challenge now is getting that surface flat so I can attach lapping film to it. I set up a glass lapping plate with 40 micron lapping film, but It's small enough (1/4" x 1") that, working it freehand, I can't hold it flat to the plate without rocking or tipping it. I tried relieving the back side of the face I'm trying to work (towards the handle) but that barely helped. What are some home shop tactics for this kind of situation? Is there a cheap and easy shop jig that'll function like a collet block?
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Nov 24, 2021 07:12
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ZincBoy posted:It is difficult to convey just how much better the name brand bits cut. I remember the emotional turmoil I went through when I found out my area in a machine shop went through $10,000 of drill bits a month. It still sometimes blows my mind. Management wasn't complaining about the cost, it was just a line item expense they mentioned in paying. They realized it was cheaper to buy quality tooling and dispose of it when statistical tolerances started wandering than to pay people an hourly wageb to sharpen drill bits and deal with those statistically wandering tolerances. "statistically wandering tolerances" I don't remember the correct term. It could be a part with ±0.003 but if it started to trend too quickly to one way or another the tool would be preemptively replaced, despite being "in spec." We had parts with tolerances as tight as +0.0001 -0.0002 so some paranoia about tools was called for. Still, $10k a month just on drill bits?
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Nov 24, 2021 07:37
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One of the downsides to everybody having cell phones nowadays.... You can't soak a phone book in a 5 gallon pail of water, then clamp a blade in between the sheets in a vice while you anneal the tang.
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Nov 24, 2021 07:45
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You can with a wad of newspapers though.
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Nov 24, 2021 10:09
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MisterOblivious posted:I remember the emotional turmoil I went through when I found out my area in a machine shop went through $10,000 of drill bits a month. It still sometimes blows my mind. Management wasn't complaining about the cost, it was just a line item expense they mentioned in paying. They realized it was cheaper to buy quality tooling and dispose of it when statistical tolerances started wandering than to pay people an hourly wageb to sharpen drill bits and deal with those statistically wandering tolerances. Statistical process control. I work in turbomachinery and it's needed for aeroshapes and critical features. Each major rotating component is minimum $10k, so 10k in drills each month is very reasonable. As a for instance: I'm trying to make a change to drop a tolerance band from .001" bilateral to .0009" biased and it drops our critical process capability from like 1.5 to 1.25 and we're calculating the cost of that now. It's more than 10k.
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Nov 24, 2021 12:54
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Relevant to the thread title Alec Steele is making a butt plug. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFrQDmyal8Q
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Nov 24, 2021 13:01
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CommonShore posted:That's what I was saying all along with the potato bit: the Canadian Tire bits have served me well enough for drilling wood, but hardened steel has proven a different story. I just wasn't sure how much better I'd need for getting where I need to go. Milwaukee is contractor stuff, so the target materials would be mild steel, sheet metal, wood, etc. Likely a step up from your craptastic bits, but not by much. MisterOblivious posted:Still, $10k a month just on drill bits? Take a big rear end expensive casting with dozens of hours of machining ops, you'd hate to gently caress it up at the very end by snapping off a poo poo drill bit. Usually it's a tap, but either way it's job dependent. Sometimes the price of failure is so high that you have to buy Guering or some oddball French drill.
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Nov 24, 2021 14:40
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One of the most important lessons of my tool apprenticeship was our meister making everyone spend a week practicing hand sharpening drill bits until they were dead on perfect and then telling us "haha jk you'll never use this, if it isn't split point it's poo poo"
shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 14:49
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Yeah the work cost of resharpening is often less than buying new for day to day stuff
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Nov 24, 2021 15:09
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CommonShore posted:I don't have a ton of experience drilling metal, but I have some. As I said, I did a 5/8 hole in railroad steel a week ago to make a doweling setup for another project. Of course, that steel isn't hardened, so the cutlery steel is a new journey for me. Based on your description here that drill bit is already dead. If you want to confirm that try drilling some steel you know is soft. I second the use a Dremel bit and just grind it out vs trying to anneal the handle. If the handle is hard I would try a cobalt bit before I went carbide. Carbide vs hard steel wants a really rigid setup and a consistent feed rate.
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Nov 24, 2021 15:10
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If you weren't in Canada I'd throw some Guhring cobalt drills in my next MSC order for you.
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Nov 24, 2021 15:23
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If the Milwaukee ones aren't substantially better, I'll skip them. Mid-Canada Fastners near me has "Drilco heavy duty nitro drill bits" listed on its website, rated for stainless steel. I've always wanted an excuse to drop in there to see what they have, so that's where I'm going to go. The dremel is a good suggestion, but a) I would need to pick up the dremel bit too, and b) I have a whole bag of these cutlery rivets and a queue of knives to rehandle, so spending a few dollars to get decent bits in the appropriate size will save me future grief.
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Nov 24, 2021 16:21
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oh yeah, if you need to do anything describable as Production Work For Money, absolutely just spend some decent cash on the right drill and don't think twice. Depending on how many you need to do, it might even be worth picking up a reamer and undersize drill instead, so you can get the exact fit-up you want for riveting. It sounds like you're basically reaming holes larger as it stands, yeah? I don't recall what's indicated for tube rivets for knife scales but any small fastener probably has an indicated hole size that a twist drill may or may not reliably hit. e: you're def gonna wanna have some certainty about the temper/hardness before going and buying a reamer, though. Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 16:53
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HolHorsejob posted:How would you grind & lap a small steel surface flat in a very barebones shop? I think your best bet is to take some scrap strips of leather and make a little strop (rough side up) on a thin piece of wood, or metal if you can get the right dimension and use it directly on the skiver. Put the homemade sharpener aside for a bit. Using chromium oxide paste on that will work, it just might take a while to get it as sharp as you want. Also isn't the top side just an angle? I thought the business end of the skiving knives was on the bottom, so getting that channel on the 'top' sharp shouldn't matter. I mean, sure, you might need to remove a burr or something, but I thought the top was just your wedge to lift whatever you're cutting. e: or is it 2 sided? Slung Blade fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 17:11
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And my holes are drilled. Several lessons learned. Thanks, thread! When I get my handle attached I'll post a picture.
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Nov 24, 2021 17:45
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The most important lesson is "ask two smiths get three different answers"
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Nov 24, 2021 17:50
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I'm an academic and a grappler so I'm used to ask two/get five. The biggest takeaway though that I'd like more info on is what the file test can tell me: is it "if the file bites, drill away; if it doesn't, get out the torch"?
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Nov 24, 2021 18:14
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CommonShore posted:I'm an academic and a grappler so I'm used to ask two/get five. The file test is sort of like a Mohs test for mineral hardness; because files are reliably tempered very hard, and are designed to cut into metal in a predictable and easily-assessed manner, they provide a good reference point for what's just a fancied-up scratch test. The harder material will be able to scratch the softer one so the file will just sort of glance off a hard material, it feels like sliding across glass, the teeth can't get purchase. If you haven't done much hand filing, also try filing a couple of other known reference materials, like a piece of aluminium/copper, some soft steel from a definitely-annealed source like soft wire/nails/rebar, softer tempered steel from a drill bit shank, harder tempered steel from another file's tang/shank, etc. The file test isn't just a binary yes/no, once you're familiar with a file's cutting action you can also roughly assess just how much softer a sample is, not just that it's softer at all. What you do with this information is more complicated, flame-annealing is great when practical but it often isn't in the cards and can be a big time-wasting ordeal for steel when an extended soak or cool-down is indicated. Thankfully in the age of high-speed steel and carbide you usually have options for just brute-forcing the problem with More Better Tooling. Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 18:36
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Also, make sure your drill is set to forward and not reverse. I was very mad at a drill bit one time at 3am until I figured out what I was doing wrong.
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Nov 24, 2021 19:22
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Slung Blade posted:I think your best bet is to take some scrap strips of leather and make a little strop (rough side up) on a thin piece of wood, or metal if you can get the right dimension and use it directly on the skiver. Put the homemade sharpener aside for a bit.   Not sure how great this shot is, but the bottom side is a smooth radius. You lean the tool at an angle and that angle drives how deep your cut will be. IDK the performance is so-so at best, it's hard to get it to cut consistently and with ease. It's a cheap tool made of cheap steel that comes Factory Sharp, so I figured if I just put & keep a razor edge on it, it'll perform better than it does now. Can you actually improve a crappy grind with a strop? I thought a strop was for knocking off burrs and straightening edges back into shape.
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Nov 24, 2021 20:07
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HolHorsejob posted:
Ok, I see the bevel on the top now. Yeah that's bizarre. Way I see it you have four options: 1. Sharpen the underside with a stone, remove only a tiny bit of material, and only right on the edge, don't impact that radius if at all possible. Strop to polish. 2. Get a diamond mini file that will fit in that channel and use that to sharpen your edge. 3. Buy a better skiver, or make your own. 4. Get a roll of emery cloth and cut it to the width of that channel with a pair of scissors you don't like all that much. Suspend that somehow so it's held securely in the air so you can get the skiver edge onto it and go to town.
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Nov 24, 2021 21:41
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HolHorsejob posted:
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Nov 25, 2021 01:33
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Yooper posted:Milwaukee is contractor stuff, so the target materials would be mild steel, sheet metal, wood, etc. Likely a step up from your craptastic bits, but not by much. I always end up quoting you on machining stuff, LOL. My shop has to tap 6-32 in big titanium parts for me. They used to specify new taps every 4 holes, but they would still have issues once in a while. Guess what the solution was? Thread mill. It's a bunch of setup, but it gives perfect threads with no chance of scraping the part. $$<$$$$$
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Nov 25, 2021 13:49
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So uhhhhhhhhhhh looks like Christmas is going to involve a 7x14 lathe in that I kind of ham-handedly ran the idea past my wife and the next day I got the "so if that WERE going to happen, hypothetically, like let's pretend, give me a couple links to some accessory/tooling options that would help get you launched with this thing" Any recommendations for Get Me Started tooling sets in the $50/100/150range? I think 100 is the actual target number for this part. I know that ultimately I'm going to spend as much on tooling as on the lathe itself at a minimum, but I apparently need to find some beginner's kits for getting launched. This is for a Sieg C3 7x14 mini lathe. Looks like it takes 5/16" / 8mm tools. e: Looking at the starter guide on little machine shop, I’m actually wondering if some of my wood lathe accessories might be usable here, such as my tailstock drill chucks and my live and dead centers and the like. That’d sure be cool. Will have to check tapers and so on tomorrow. Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Nov 30, 2021 |
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Nov 30, 2021 01:34
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As promised here's a picture of my knife with it's new handle. Finish is organic flax oil and it's going to sit in a cupboard for a while before it gets back into the kitchen. I need to improve my countersinking for the rivet heads but this was the sacrificial learning knife and I got a result that passes the first inspection so I'm happy. 
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Dec 3, 2021 23:01
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got into electroforming/plating recently. have only done copper so far, but I've got some nickel on the way. My question is, what's the easiest way to do a yellow color aside from gold? From what I understand, brass won't work since it's an alloy.
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Dec 4, 2021 20:12
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Ghostnuke posted:got into electroforming/plating recently. have only done copper so far, but I've got some nickel on the way. My question is, what's the easiest way to do a yellow color aside from gold? From what I understand, brass won't work since it's an alloy. electro...forming?
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Dec 4, 2021 22:37
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Ghostnuke posted:My question is, what's the easiest way to do a yellow color aside from gold? https://www.gattoplaters.com/yellow-zinc-plating.html I am unfamiliar with the process, but once I'm back in the office I can dig it out. Avoid the hexavalent stuff.
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Dec 4, 2021 23:28
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Apparently pyrite is also an option, though I don't know if the process is much different.
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Dec 4, 2021 23:30
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I did some reading. Looks like I can do regular old zinc, and then dip it into a chromate solution.
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Dec 5, 2021 00:34
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Ghostnuke posted:I did some reading. Looks like I can do regular old zinc, and then dip it into a chromate solution. I have got the thread for you. Not sure where plating chat starts but if you start at the end and work backwards there's a ton of good info. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3838374&pagenumber=38&perpage=40
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Dec 5, 2021 00:51
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honda whisperer posted:I have got the thread for you. Not sure where plating chat starts but if you start at the end and work backwards there's a ton of good info. sweet, thanks
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Dec 5, 2021 01:02
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I've finished plating this model, and it looks great but I keep getting these blue crystals growing on it. I think it's just residual copper sulfate, but I'm not sure. Is there some way to keep this from happening? I rinsed it all off with water yesterday and blew it dry with my air compressor.
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Dec 10, 2021 18:10
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HolHorsejob posted:electro...forming? elctroplating is one metal on top of another. eclectoforming is metal onto a non metallic object. I think the blue crystals are just evaporation from the copper sulphate that soaked in when the part was immersed. for the yellow colour you can get brass solutions.
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Dec 10, 2021 23:37
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