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What options are there realistically for someone who lives in an apartment to set up a metalworking space somewhere? Are there collectives which share the rent on a big space where noise and FIRE! are all ok? I imagine that there are artist collectives some places for stuff like this, but that may just be a dream. (Also shout-out to Atomic Zombie and Shelton Brown (RIP) for inspiring mad bicycle creating lust.) Also to ask even more impossible questions: Has anyone in Japan ever seen these sort of co-op areas available? Do any of the Vulcans in this thread live in Japan? Can a 100 volt Japanese MIG welder have any sort of not immediately obvious power restriction that a 110V US MIG welder does not?
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Aug 16, 2008 10:31
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EVERYTHING I SAY ABOUT JAPAN OR LIVING IN JAPAN IS COMPLETELY WRONG, BUT YOU BETTER BELIEVE I'LL 
ABOUT IT.
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How much disposable income do you have? Go take a drive around some industrial areas. People and businesses will own buildings back there and often have some space they will be happy to rent out to you cheap. For example, I know a guy who rents a huge shop for $100 a month to build his boat. As far as the welder goes, most 110v welders here in the US are more of a "toy" then a welding machine. I see the 100v Japanese unit being the same. You're not going to weld anything thicker then 1/8" with a 110v MIG machine. If 110 is all you have access to, that's one thing, but you want to do everything you can to get a circuit in the 200 range.
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Aug 16, 2008 10:49
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dv6speed posted:For example, I know a guy who rents a huge shop for $100 a month to build his boat. What area is that in? (For bike building I probably will never even hit 1/8 plate. Will it still hold me back?)
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Aug 16, 2008 11:37
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That shop he is renting is in Chester, PA. Not the best area to be in... but it works fine for what he needs. If you never plan to weld anything thicker then 1/8" the 110v MIG will be OK for you. If you are welding bicycle frames, you may want to strongly consider a TIG machine. But, I still recommend trying to get a 220 circuit and welder as you will probably find you might want to weld some other larger things someday. It's one of those things that even tho you plan on making bicycles, once you have the metalworking equipment, other doors will open for you that you didn't see before. Good, large amounts of electricity is the most important welding/shop tool you can ever have.
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Aug 16, 2008 14:59
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dv6speed posted:Yes. gently caress. This is going to take awhile.
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Aug 16, 2008 15:54
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Slung Blade posted:gently caress. I would use a wirewheel on a angle grinder if I was you. It probably wouldn't take long that way
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Aug 16, 2008 16:45
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SmokeyXIII posted:I would use a wirewheel on a angle grinder if I was you. It probably wouldn't take long that way That, a flap wheel, or a sandblaster will make quick work of this.
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Aug 16, 2008 19:14
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I just ordered this crucible. I already have my refractory materials for my new furnace. I'm going to wait till I get the physical crucible in hand, then make some lifting and pouring tongs for it. Once I have that all set, I can take measurements and finalize the size of the furnace. Soon, I will have an iron melting machine! In the mean time, I'm going to start chopping up an old freon tank for use as mini-forge shell.
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Aug 16, 2008 19:19
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I ended up using a flapdisk, way faster than my wire cup. Plus it didn't wear me out like the wire cup does (that thing is heavy). Painting it today and tomorrow, images to follow.
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Aug 17, 2008 07:59
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Cleaned and painted, ready to load onto my truck to take to my buddy's place. Click here for the full 1268x951 image.  Click here for the full 1280x960 image. This is easily the biggest thing I've made yet. I'm quite happy with it.
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Aug 17, 2008 22:09
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I hate to triple post (god dammit you guys post some project images, I don't care if they're not done < > ) but I took the cage over and installed it. Click here for the full 1280x960 image.  Click here for the full 1280x960 image.
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Aug 18, 2008 02:45
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Slung Blade posted:I hate to triple post (god dammit you guys post some project images, I don't care if they're not done < Wow - I had no idea what it was you were making. That's fantastic! Now, I'm in the insurance business, and I do know that having secured bars over a window poses a life-safety risk, on account of people being unable to flee through the window in the event of a fire. If your friend has fire insurance of any kind, and the insurance company does a periodic inspection, they may hear about it. Just giving you a heads up. Not sure if there's any kind of quick-release mechanism on there...
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Aug 18, 2008 03:17
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The basement is unfinished and will remain so, it's his gym area. There's another window on the other side about 15 feet away that has no security bar that's better suited to escape, as the fence is farther away from it, and it's closer to the gate to get out of the yard. If he went out this window he would have to run all the way around the house to get to safety so it would never be his prefered escape route. I hope that's good enough for the insurance company. I know they're keeping the keys to the locks fairly close to the window, but there's no quick and easy way to remove the bars. Do you think they would accept that explanation? Thanks for the warning Jovial, and the compliment 
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Aug 18, 2008 03:55
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Slung Blade posted:The basement is unfinished and will remain so, it's his gym area. There's another window on the other side about 15 feet away that has no security bar that's better suited to escape, as the fence is farther away from it, and it's closer to the gate to get out of the yard. Yeah - if there's another escape route, that should be fine.
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Aug 18, 2008 04:13
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Nice work!
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Aug 18, 2008 10:52
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Ok I apparently have from now until december to kill some time, and I have a garage to use. I want to braze some bicycle frames together to make a tandem, and I guees I want to be able to weld some other poo poo on there. I will have to abandon the gear in December, and I have no experience at all. And obviously no gear. I can probably take the helmet, but the welder is going to be left behind. Tell me what I need to buy, and how it will cost me new. (mainland US) Also if brazing is just a bad idea, and I should just use a MIG welder that's OK too. I have no idea if I will ever have this opportunity again, so don't worry about long-term things like a TIG might leave me with more options down the road.
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Aug 19, 2008 05:25
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Get a light duty Oxy/Acetylene welding torch, and rent some tanks for the season. The torch will cost about 150 dollars, give or take, and will contain everything you need to cut, weld, and braze. No helmet required, just welding goggles, which usually come with the kit. The torch kits are usually fairly small, about the size of a large briefcase. So you can keep it as it is easy to store, or you can sell it when you're done if you so choose. Take a welding course at your local tech school or community college, it'll take about a week of evenings, but you will learn how to safely operate the torch, the cutter, and how to handle the tanks. Get some files, punches, drill bits, a few c-clamps, hacksaw, and a small machinist's (aka ball-pein) hammer. These tools, if you already have the drill (what garage has no drill?), will only cost about 20-40 dollars. A vice is handy if you have space for it, but there are alternatives if you don't want to buy one. Get a basic adjustable crescent wrench and a screwdriver body with exchangeable heads for basic assembly / disassembly work. These are things you should have in your car anyway (if you have one), just in case. This will at least give you a good starting point so you can start playing around with stuff in the garage. Remember to always have good ventilation.
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Aug 19, 2008 06:45
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I would say brazing bicycles is a bad idea. http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/handler140/ <-- That will do the job if you are going MIG. You will also need a shielding gas cylinder and pressure regulator, your safety gear, measuring and marking tools, cutting tools, and grinding tools. You are looking at $1.5-2k for all the stuff you need for just the cutting, grinding, and welding. I don't know what else is involved in building bikes, you'll probably need some assorted hand tools. I have to be honest, I don't know if it's worth it to get all your stuff just to abandon it in December. By the time you just get everything together and learn how to use it, it'll be time to go. Edit: Note about using O/A welding for bicycles, I know for a fact that bicycle's require fillet welds. This is the one type of weld that O/A has some difficulty doing well. A good O/A fillet weld can be done, but requires great operator skill. AbsentMindedWelder fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Aug 19, 2008 |
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Aug 19, 2008 06:52
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dv6speed posted:I have to be honest, I don't know if it's worth it to get all your stuff just to abandon it in December. By the time you just get everything together and learn how to use it, it'll be time to go. I I want to at least try some to do this at a time when I know I will have a garage to do it in. http://www.atomiczombie.com/  http://sheldonbrown.com/tandem-build.html  I will in all likelihood never be in one place long enough with a garage to even do this again. I am not working right now so I have nothing but free time (or at leaast completely flexible time.) kapalama fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Aug 19, 2008 |
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Aug 19, 2008 12:34
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kapalama posted:I will in all likelihood never be in one place long enough with a garage to even do this again. Building a whole bicycle by December with no prior metalworking experience is a very ambitious goal. I don't want to discourage you, however. Spending that time experimenting and learning new metalworking techniques won't be a waste of your time.
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Aug 19, 2008 12:54
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Hey guys. I've been doing frontier-style blacksmithing for a couple of years now, though I admit that I haven't been as ambitious as I could be. I've done innumerable nails and s-hooks, and as for larger projects, I have one completed tomahawk, one ugly-rear end knife, several forks, a nail header, some cold-shut infested tongs, a firesteel, and probably a few oddities that weren't worthy of commission to memory. At the usual shop, we've got a small 1805 Mousehole, some kind of 1750 french colonial (even smaller), some huge-rear end double-chambered bellows, and a side-draft forge. I built a forge with a mentor and purchased my own 110lb 1841 William Foster wrought anvil (edges are rough, missing a foot, large chip forming, but almost no damage to the face itself), and a 2 lb cross pein. I've got some pictures of projects and equipment below, and I'd be happy to answer questions. Lately I've been reading up a bit on Damascus steel (actual ancient Damascus, not modern Damascus, which is just pattern welding and not really related except in initial appearance), and I'm trying to lock down a mental abstract for pre-1855 steel- and iron-making (in 1855 the Bessemer process came out and blew everything else out of the water). I can also track down a good reading list (IRL books) that a co-conspirator sent me when I was just getting started. The projects pictured were all done with 1820s-style hand tools, so forgive their rough appearance. I've also got a rad firepoker that took about three days, but there aren't pictures of it yet. A tomahawk I welded up. Started out as 1"x1/4" iron bar and a chunk of an old file for the edge. I fouled up the edge weld through poor preparation and there's some flaws, but the shaping turned out alright.   The bad knife. It is pretty straight, but I was using files and a sandstone wheel to finish it, so I was too lazy to put a good edge on it. Now it has a good edge, but it's a bit uglier, and I don't have pics.  Firesteel. Pretty straightforward.  The anvil. Squirrel-cage blower on workbench (haven't rigged up a switch and plug yet). 
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Aug 19, 2008 20:39
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dv6speed posted:Never is a long time! What sort of life will you be leading that will make it impossible for you to get access to a shop? I am just basing it on my life up until now. Apartment living in Hawaii and JApan. My goal is not to really have a bike at the end (since I would have to recycle it anyway). It is to see if some ideas I have work. Part of me says MIG because spitting a bunch of Joining metal seems like the kind of approach that suits me. Another part says O/A because you can always drag that out to a beach somewhere (assuming Hawaii) adnd do some welding. TIG is the obvious way to go, but I will not be working in AL (no way to heat treat it) or Titanium (I do not actually have that much faith in my design ideas). Stick welder may be the only available choice once I get to Japan, because of the licensing needed to purchase gas. My raw material will be junk bikes which alread have matching curve that make brazing doable for at least some of the joins. Others will need actual wedling. Please poke and prod, and make me get excited about it, or realize it is pointless. I do have some time here to kill. I'm waiting for something to clear probate, not really working, bored stiff and thought hey the metal thread people can tell me what to do, or that I should not even try it.
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Aug 19, 2008 21:47
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Dongsmith posted:I really like your knife, and the tomahawk is good as well. Did you make the knife handle yourself too? Can you post pictures of that nail header you made? I've never seen one outside of an illustration. Hell, post more pictures of everything. That anvil certainly looks well used 
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Aug 19, 2008 22:52
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Here is the pipe I've been working on for the last 2 days. It's 10" diameter and I'm not exactly sure what the application is but I have a feel its going to have water going through it. It was a hugely off day so it's not really my best weld, the QC guy even came up and did his visual inspection and said "this is my least favorite weld you've ever done" haha what a jerk, oh well.  
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Aug 20, 2008 02:04
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Slung Blade posted:I really like your knife, and the tomahawk is good as well. Did you make the knife handle yourself too? I made the handle too, just some scrap softwood carved down and attached with some modern brass rivets. We've got plenty of iron in the shop, but not a lot of brass rods laying around. The anvil is indeed well-used, but not by me. I attempted one chain link at a family gathering on it, and the anvil worked very nicely (myself, not so much). Since then, I moved into a crappy-but-interesting house in the city and I haven't had the energy to set up the home forge again. I'll be back in the suburbs soon, and only working weekends, so my plan is to make a broadsword. I'd also like to make some pattern-welded billets, since I'm out of practice in forge-welding.
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Aug 20, 2008 04:16
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SmokeyXIII posted:Here is the pipe I've been working on for the last 2 days. It's 10" diameter and I'm not exactly sure what the application is but I have a feel its going to have water going through it. It was a hugely off day so it's not really my best weld, the QC guy even came up and did his visual inspection and said "this is my least favorite weld you've ever done" haha what a jerk, oh well.
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Aug 20, 2008 04:32
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Dongsmith posted:So is that a bunch of one-inch welds perpendicular to the seam line, or is it more of a continuous zig-zag crossing it numerous times? Either way, it's far beyond my skill levels. I'm amazed at the quality of stick welds (assuming this is stick) since it's such basic tech, but sometimes basic works best. Yeah its stick (7018), I use a zig zag pattern personally, but everyone has a different way of doing it. You can get about 3-4" with on 3/32" rod while doing your cap, depending on how much fill you have to do aswell. I've got another joint coming up in a couple days and ill try to get a good night sleep and not be hung over to produce a really sweet one, it might also be a good idea because I think I'm due for an xray.
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Aug 20, 2008 04:55
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SmokeyXIII posted:Yeah its stick (7018), I use a zig zag pattern personally, but everyone has a different way of doing it. You can get about 3-4" with on 3/32" rod while doing your cap, depending on how much fill you have to do aswell. I've got another joint coming up in a couple days and ill try to get a good night sleep and not be hung over to produce a really sweet one, it might also be a good idea because I think I'm due for an xray.
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Aug 20, 2008 05:13
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Dongsmith posted:Do they do those randomly like drug tests, or is it just for joints that really, totally, right now need to penetrate and be free of inclusions? I'm about 90% certain that I want to go to school for welding and CNC machining (maybe not at the same time, or even in that order), so I'm kind of interested in the practices of professional operations. It varies depending on the class of the line (diameter, thickness, material, product it transports). So one line might be 100% xray, but a typical line is 10% xray, with 2 qualifier xrays on your first two welds. 100% of my welds get Visually tested by 3 people, QC, QA and Client QA. They look for things like porosity, undercut, any inclusions or abnormalities in the weld. 5% of the joints get a brinell hardness test, which is just to check that you weren't running too cold, or too hot. Every line gets hydrotested as well. They fill it with water and pump it up to 1500psi (or so, depending on line class) and hold pressure for a couple hours. If no pressure leaks, or water leaks, we're good to go. Also drug tests aren't random either, everyone has to take a preemployment drug test, and anyone involved in an incident gets a drug test. So even if you're the passenger in a car and the driver crashes, you have to go for a pee.
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Aug 20, 2008 05:25
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SmokeyXIII posted:It varies depending on the class of the line (diameter, thickness, material, product it transports). So one line might be 100% xray, but a typical line is 10% xray, with 2 qualifier xrays on your first two welds. 100% of my welds get Visually tested by 3 people, QC, QA and Client QA. They look for things like porosity, undercut, any inclusions or abnormalities in the weld. 5% of the joints get a brinell hardness test, which is just to check that you weren't running too cold, or too hot. Every line gets hydrotested as well. They fill it with water and pump it up to 1500psi (or so, depending on line class) and hold pressure for a couple hours. If no pressure leaks, or water leaks, we're good to go. I knew about the x-ray testing, but the brinell test is news to me. If you're running too hot, does the HAZ slow cooling of the bead and reduce hardening? I haven't done too much reading on metallurgy except where it applies to hammering on poo poo. quote:Also drug tests aren't random either, everyone has to take a preemployment drug test, and anyone involved in an incident gets a drug test. So even if you're the passenger in a car and the driver crashes, you have to go for a pee.
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Aug 20, 2008 05:58
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Dongsmith posted:I knew about the x-ray testing, but the brinell test is news to me. If you're running too hot, does the HAZ slow cooling of the bead and reduce hardening? I haven't done too much reading on metallurgy except where it applies to hammering on poo poo. I'm not 100% sure on this one but, I believe the hotter you weld the finer the grain structure becomes in the HAZ. Also the hotter you weld the larger the HAZ becomes. I don't believe they are actually looking for a specific hardness in their final product, they just know that a certain level of grain structure change will occur under the proper welding procedures, and they check for that. Too much change and you were too hot (which would indicate a change in mechanical properties), too little and you were too cold (which could indicate a potential for lack of fusion). If they really wanted a specific hardness they would do a post weld heat treatment on the piece and call it a day. I always used to think of there being good and bad types of grain structures, but there is no good or bad, its just different. Depending on the application of the metal you might need a fine structure, or you might need a coarse structure. The thing to remember is that you want your final product to be exactly whats called for on your blueprints and welding procedure.
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Aug 20, 2008 06:11
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Slung Blade posted:I hate to triple post (god dammit you guys post some project images, I don't care if they're not done < They look great, regardless.
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Aug 20, 2008 06:31
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Dongsmith posted:Are you forging those rivets, or buying them? If the former, what kind of tips can you offer? I'm not so good at the upsetting of material yet, so I buy them from here: http://www.blacksmithbolt.com/ I'll make an upsetting heading tool someday.
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Aug 20, 2008 07:14
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kapalama, Well, if you insist, go buy a MIG welder and start learning how to lay down some beads. I don't recommend a stick welder for bicycles. If you want to make these in Japan, you'll want to find out what you gotta do in order to buy compressed gas cylinders. Dongsmith, Welcome to the thread. You got some nice work there. I like the tomahawk especially! How do you make the ring portion that goes around the handle? You blacksmith guys need to start writing up some tutorials for the people like me who have a forge and an anvil but other then beating red hot metal, don't know what they are doing! I'm especially interested in making damascus knives. But to start out with, I'd be happy with making my own tongs. SmokeyXIII, Those are some kick rear end welds! I hope I can be like you when I grow up! (I start welding school on Monday, YAY!) I did a sand mold casting of my new semi-classified project for the first time yesterday. Unfortunately I wasn't' able to take pics due to camera issues. What did I learn yesterday? Lots! 1. Need to mull the greensand better. 2. Need to ram the sand in the mold better. 3. Need to use better parting compound. 4. Need to re-work the pattern so it can be more easily withdrawn from the sand. 5. Don't forget to vent the mold! (There is a dimple in the casting created by un-vented steam) 6. Foundries are totally awesome! Don't worry, once I get my camera issues solved, and start making better molds, I'll take some pictures and do a write up on mixing greensand and making sand molds. AbsentMindedWelder fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Aug 21, 2008 |
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Aug 21, 2008 13:35
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There are a couple of ways to make a hafting hole in a tool from what I've read. The first way is just to drill a giant hole in some iron, wasteful, and it takes for loving ever. Another way is to drill or punch a very small hole, then use something called a drift to increase the size of the hole. Drifts are usually better because they allow you to easily make an eliptical shaped hole which is better for hafting (your handle won't spin in a elipse) instead of a clyindrical. Drifts have a double taper, a long slender one at the business end, and a hemispherical end at the other (where you hit it) so it doesn't get stuck halfway through the hole. I'll be making a diagonal pein hammer for myself eventually, and I will be using a drift to make the hafting hole, I'll be sure to document the whole thing with pictures.
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Aug 21, 2008 16:35
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Slung Blade posted:There are a couple of ways to make a hafting hole in a tool from what I've read. For Tomahawks and axes, though, it's typically going to be a weld. I took flattering pictures so you couldn't see the ugly seam, but I basically took a metal bar, folded into a |_| shape, then bent the two arms around, away from the center of the |_| shape, until they roughly met, forming an eye. (turned 90 degrees to the left, it will look kind of like this: O< ) Then I got it hot as a son of a bitch, and used a straight peen to weld the seam as close to the eye as possible ( O*< asterisk being where you want to hit it). Now, keep in mind that this is pretty hard to do, and you will mess up the first time (I burnt the hell out of a dime-sized part of the socket). Then you weld the seam, going from the eye out to the blade for a few heats, until there's just enough un-welded iron at the blade end to jam a wedge of high-carbon steel. Give it another heat, being very careful not to get to the sparking point, and tap that together too. Before welding any surfaces (with modern steel at least), you want to heat it up orange or yellow and brush all the scale off, then immediately shower the clean surfaces with flux to prevent oxidation and lower the melting point of the existing oxides. I like to close the weld most of the way in this step before throwing it in for the true weld heat, because it prevents oxygen from breaching the seam and putting a dick in your weld's mouth. I'm also told that it just takes a light tap (light in blacksmithing terms, the force would still probably break your finger for a weld that size) to fuse the metals, since they'll be halfway there from the heat already. After all that, you will still want to drift the hole out.
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Aug 22, 2008 00:39
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dv6speed posted:SmokeyXIII, Thanks! You'll do great I'm sure, you have a passion for metal working so you will go far. If you need any advice with any of your manipulations, procedures, theory, how-to's of the trade just lemme know. Welders love talking about Welding. You don't hear pipefitters talking about the sweet secrets of pipefitting, or electricians talking about how to run wires the best, but you can get two welders together and they'll happily talk all day long about fit ups, heat, materials, manipulations, etc etc etc.
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Aug 22, 2008 01:39
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SmokeyXIII posted:Thanks! You'll do great I'm sure, you have a passion for metal working so you will go far. If you need any advice with any of your manipulations, procedures, theory, how-to's of the trade just lemme know. Welders love talking about Welding. You don't hear pipefitters talking about the sweet secrets of pipefitting, or electricians talking about how to run wires the best, but you can get two welders together and they'll happily talk all day long about fit ups, heat, materials, manipulations, etc etc etc. (ed. for redundancy of language)
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Aug 22, 2008 02:03
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It's so true! I love saying "well this piece is 72 tonnes, and this piece is 72 tonnes... I bet I could make 1 piece thats 144 tonnes!" and then going and doing it. Well I've only done it once but that was one HELL of a weld.
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Aug 22, 2008 02:54
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SmokeyXIII posted:It's so true! I love saying "well this piece is 72 tonnes, and this piece is 72 tonnes... I bet I could make 1 piece thats 144 tonnes!" and then going and doing it. Well I've only done it once but that was one HELL of a weld.
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Aug 22, 2008 04:02
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