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Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


What are you guys doing with regards to ergonomics? While my setup has worked for a few years now I've had some discomfort lately that has me thinking I might need to make things more ergonomic. I'm not too hot on keyboard trays, so getting a desk that can the get the surface at the right height seems like it might be the way to go? From what I've seen it sounds like I want my keyboard to be around belly height? Unfortunately I'm fairly short so I think I'll need to find something that gets fairly low. I'm currently using what I think is an older version of IKEA's Malm - the Bekant gets a few inches lower so that might be an option?

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Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


There was a period of hand/wrist pain that's settled down mostly (checked with a doc while it was occurring - said it wasn't carpel tunnel, basically told me to give it time) - but there's also been discomfort in the forearms and elbows a bit. I've been playing around with my seat height a bit to try to find something more comfortable but my height makes it a bit tricky, even with a foot rest.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


Etrips posted:

Adjustable armrests would probably fix this.

My current chair has these, albeit they're a bit wobbly when adjusted to desk surface height and having them at the height prevents me from being able to rotate my chair. I've always found myself wanting to pull into my desk / use the surface of the desk to rest my arms since it offers a bit more freedom, but I suppose that runs against the point of trying to observe better posture / ergonomics.

rickiep00h posted:

What is your keyboard situation? I’ve only ever been able to use old mechanical split ergonomic boards or laptop/Mac-style chiclets. A standard mechanical board fucks up my forearms real bad.

I'm using some logitech gaming keyboard, I don't think it's given me too much trouble but it is a bit limited on the wrist resting space. I've been finding a bit more discomfort in my mouse forearm either way.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


Spyde posted:

Are you using one of those mouse pads with the wrist rest? Those are usually sold as an 'ergonomic' product but tend to just make things worse.

Nah, I always figured those to be pretty silly.

I'm feeling a bit confused because my setup hasn't really given me any issues for the past few years, but that may just be a factor of it being an over time problem? Either way I'm tempted to replace the desk with something that has a bit of a lower surface or adjustable surface since that would make it easier to do things like getting arm rests high enough. Plus the surface of my current desk is wearing down a bit.

The Bekant seems tempting since it's a good few inches lower then my current desk, and it sounds like the wobbling issue might just be with the sit/stand versions of it. Might also help with the nightmare mess that is my cable management.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


Etrips posted:

How high is your current desk that is deemed too high?

I'm somewhat going off the basis that all the ergonomic stuff says you want your arms resting close to stomach level. The surface is around 28 inches off the ground, with my chair adjusted so my feet are flat, my arms resting on the desk are sitting around chest height.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


rickiep00h posted:

Could you get a keyboard tray? *Also* a huge help for me, and I never thought I needed one until I got one. 28 inches is just a bit lower than my desk height, but the tray is at 25ish and my elbows are a good 90-95 degree bend. (Also I'm 5'11".)

I've never been to crazy about keyboard trays - they've always felt very un-sturdy, or don't really like to stay in place, on top of offering fairly limited space, which is a particular problem if I want to use my wacom. (For what its worth I'm 5'2)

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


Budgie posted:

Do you mean the sit/stand desks because I have a normal corner version of the BEKANT and I don't find it wobbles excessively.

Do you (or anyone else who might have a bekant) find your monitors wobble a bit more? I've got it adjusted to the lowest point, and I'm not sure if it's desk wobble but I've noticed this desk a lot more sensitive then my other one - typing on the keyboard or putting weight on the desk can cause my monitors to wobble a very slight amount that's enough to notice. Maybe my monitors just aren't very stable, but there's not really any adjustment and it wasn't really a problem in the past.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


So I'm still having some issues with ergonomics that are leaving me frustrated. My desk height and chair have worked for me for the past 5-10 years, and lately I just cannot find a position my mouse arm is comfortable in. Either there's discomfort in the forearm, or I don't like how the edge of the desk feels against my arm - which seems weird when this new desk a more rounded edge then my old one. Trying out a lower desk height so that my arms would rest 90* didn't feel much better or left me uncomfortable in other ways.

I'm willing to consider my chair could be part of the problem - the seat certainly is a bit worn down from years of use and the seat depth is a bit on the deep side for my height. Even if I were to get something like a keyboard tray, the arm rests aren't in the best condition either. I'm not sure how keen I am on spending more money right, particularly if it doesn't fix the problem. Are there good ergonomic chairs that won't break the bank? I've seen people bring up the Aeron - I have one at work and it's not bad, I'm just not sure if it's worth the 1000$ USD price tag they have on their website. I see a kijiji (like craigslist, but for canada I think.) posting with some Aeron's in my city for 400$ which seems tempting but I'd probably need to find out what sort of condition the chairs are in.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


isndl posted:

I would avoid used Aerons because 90% of them are the old version which aren't particularly ergonomic. Office liquidators aren't a bad place to look around in case there's newer stuff though.

I'm not sure a new chair is going to fix your issue of forearm discomfort - does it feel like there's too much pressure at certain points? More of a rotational discomfort? Are you currently using a keyboard tray? How high is your chair adjusted relative to your desk, based on the armrests? How close is your keyboard/mouse to the edge and how much of your arm is hanging off?

This is a rough idea of what my setup looks like, at least with regards to chair, kb+m.


You're probably right about the chair, I think I'm kinda just jumping to conclusions - this chair doesn't strike me as particularly un-ergonomic - it's been mostly fine for the past many years, although the aeron i have at work me notice this chair feels deeper.

As pictured and mentioned earlier in the thread I don't have a keyboard tray - I've never been to crazy about them because they've always felt really cramped and restrictive and I've always just preferred to use the desk surface for resting my arms. I'm not too crazy about arm rests either - having the level with the desk means I can't really make any rotation of my chair without bumping the desk with the arms, and just leads to problem of my right hand being unsupported when using the keyboard.

Previously I've had some discomfort in the "meaty" part of my forearm that I rest against the desk, I'm, not noticing it as much tonight, might be because I'm trying things with my chair a bit higher.

Right now I have my chair adjusted so if I lean back my feet are just able to touch the floor flat. If I pull my chair in as much as I can I can position my arm so that maybe just the elbow is off the desk - but this has my upper arms forward a bit. Right now this is feeling decently comfortable but the desk edge can start to bother me after awhile? It certainly bugs me more the less arm I seem to have on the desk. It's weird because this desk edge feels less harsh then my previous' desks and I don't remember that one presenting as much problems. I'm also not sure how good this position for my shoulders - my upper arms are forward rather then in line with the torso like ergonomic guidelines seem to suggest and I don't really have a 90* bend. Part of my frustration is it's felt like something that works one night doesn't feel right the next. I could be overstressing/overthinking things.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


The new desk is adjustable - I've set it to a few centimeters lower then my old one, which is why I'm finding it so odd that I'm having a hard time finding the right "spot." I was also trying at a lower setting before but found that uncomfortable for different reasons. Arm rests do prevent pulling in at higher heights, but can be taken off so I might give that a go, it might have been part of my problem with the lower height as well.

Although I'm starting to contemplate a chair replacement again for different reasons - I didn't really notice it until now but the cushion seems pretty worn down - the center of the cushion is basically compacted down almost entirely. No idea how long it's been like this though.

Oxyclean fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Feb 23, 2018

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


rickiep00h posted:

What is your monitor height at? The top edge should be at or just above your line of focus. Start with that, because loving up your neck and shoulder alignment is going to screw up everything else.

Also that keyboard looks SUPER inclined. If there's a way to lower it flat do that, otherwise your wrists are going to be pulling your hands up and back and that's super lovely.

edit: Like, looking at this picture, it looks like you're going to be hunched forward with your shoulders in your ears and your elbows raised up on the desktop, splaying your wrists that will be trying to pull up the incline of your keyboard. I really feel like a keyboard tray would solve or at least work toward addressing your issues.

My eyeline probably closer to the middle, I can get it a bit higher if I raise my chair, but I'm not going to meet the top of the monitor without removing the arm rests from my chair and maybe messing with my desk height. Monitors can't be adjusted lower and I have no idea if they can even be mounted to an arm, they're pretty old and I don't see anything on the back that looks like anything? This monitor height is more or less what I've deal with for years.

The keyboard is a Corsair K70 - I have the back stands down, not sure if I did in the picture, and it doesn't feel that inclined, but maybe I'm not a good judge of this. I actually switched to this recently (but after I started having problems) because I figured the build in wrist rest would help things. (My old keyboard - Logitech G105 was also getting a bit worn down and I just sorta wanted something new.)

Even leaning forward I'm not feeling too hunched - the shoulders are probably coming up and in a little bit and I'm letting my arms rest wide. You bring up resting the elbows on the desk - ideally, how much of my arm should be on/off the table?

As for keyboard trays - I'm not really sure what to look for that will work for my desk. Another poster suggested building my own but I'm not very handy and don't really have much access to tools and the such.

Apologies if i'm coming off combative - just feeling frustrated that stuff i'm trying doesn't feel like it's working, and that the other solutions seems like they're going to cost me more money and frustrations.

Oxyclean fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Feb 24, 2018

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


rickiep00h posted:

Does your desk adjust any lower? That would help both with your sight line and (I think) (part of) your keyboard problem. Your upper arms should be roughly parallel with your torso with your shoulders relaxed and as little of your arms on the desk as possible to reach your keyboard. You should have about an arm's length from you to the monitor, so your keyboard placement would be dependent on that.

This is a pretty comprehensive ergonomics guide: https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-set-up-an-ergonomic-workstation/

Yeah - I can adjust it lower, but it's a problem of my chair being able to clear the desk. I can pull of the arm rests but I'll don't have the right tool to do it right away. That said, I have a spare chair that I was able to get the arm rests off and try getting my chair higher. (using a foot rest to compensate for my feet) My eyeline is about right now, and my arms are just about parallel, it doesn't feel much better - still kinda feels like the edge is digging into me, and I can't really get the chair much higher.

Koskun posted:

I believe I am the one whom you are referring to. To make a basic keyboard tray would take a drill (1 or 2 small bits), screwdriver (or screwdriver bit for said drill), some paint or stain with a brush (I thought paint to match the white of your desk), and maybe a sheet or two of sandpaper.

This is almost exactly what I used, the difference being mine was 8' long. Nice and smooth already, with a rounded edge. If you want you can rough it up a bit with some sandpaper before you paint/stain it, as commercially planed wood can sometimes be so smooth it doesn't soak it up that well. If 4' is too long, simply ask if they would be willing to cut it down to whatever size you would like.

The drawer/keyboard tray slides, these are exactly what I have, support up to 75 pounds, ball bearing, and have a notch they set in when slid out all the way.

I have a Bekant - so mounting to the side isn't an option.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


Oh, totally missed that second image.

The desk maybe only a cm or two thick - not really too sure how well that'd go in. There's also a metal support frame underneath that'd probably get in the way.

e: I'm just being grumpy right now, but I really don't get ergo guidelines. Like, I don't doubt how they came up with them, or that they good for your body, I just don't know how anyone manages to live with having so little clearance between their legs and a keyboard tray or desk, or arm rests in a position that they'll bump a tray or desk if you turn slightly.

Oxyclean fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Feb 24, 2018

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


rickiep00h posted:

It honestly sounds to me like you’re just not interested in trying at this point.

I mean, an inch of clearance above the thigh is seriously plenty. Your desktop is plenty thick for most keyboard tray screws, and as mentioned you could use gorilla glue etc if you can’t find screws that work. If you lower your desk you can always put some books under your monitor. If your armrests are hitting the table then get a new chair, because it sounds like this one is dying anyway.

But seriously, do *something.* I’d start with going with the recommended optimal stats for a few days and then adjust from there. There’s not going to be a single quick fix to this.

I mean, an inch is fine for sitting correctly - but it feels like it makes it a lot harder to adjust my position and do stuff like crossing my legs. Granted I think that'd be against the point of ergonomics, but there also seems to be a suggestion that you don't sit the same all day long. I'm struggling with resisting the urge to sit in a way that's "comfy" since my computer is basically where I'm unwinding and spending my free time. All I was trying to say with my edit quip is I'm surprised this works for people when it's bringing me a bunch of frustration. :(

Again, I'm sorry I'm being combative or stubborn - I feel like I am trying what I can short of running out and buying new equipment - I don't really want to end up spending a bunch of money just to end up feeling frustrated again. You're totally right that there's isn't a quick fix - adjusting to more optimal things it just feels like I'm having a hard time discerning between "this feels bad because I'm straining something/doing it wrong/my equipment is bad" and "this feels bad because I'm not used to it."

I really do appreciate the suggestions and recommendations even if it seems like I'm not taking them.

effika posted:

For real. I am too short for nearly every chair and desk combo so I usually sit cross legged with the keyboard in my lap. Or I'll jack the chair up high enough for the desk if I'm doing a lot of mousing and put boxes under my feet.

Work got me an expensive super adjustable Humanscale keyboard and mouse tray and I like it, but I still pull my legs up half the time because that's more comfortable for me than sitting "properly." At least the keyboard and mouse don't end up in my lap with it.

(The keyboard tray goes high enough over the desk for me to use it in place of our fancy motorized standing desk adapters so I guess work saved money on that one, really.)

Just do you. Change something if you want, but there's no magic solution.

Yeah - I'm short too (5'2) so I don't think there's ever been a point in the past where I've ever had a proper ergonomic setup because of stuff like desk heights. I definitely think I made a habit of bringing a leg up, sitting cross legged, resting my feet on the chair legs, but never felt like I needed the keyboard in my lap. As I mentioned up thread, I've had some mild hand pains lately (more on the pinky side/went to a walk-in and the doc said they didn't see signs of carpel) that got me thinking I needed to do something about the ergonomics of my setup so that I'm going to continue loving up my body or something. Even trying to go back to what I was set to before doesn't feel quite and right and it sort of just feels like I've forgotten how to sit at a desk or something.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


Anyone have chair recommendations that won't break the bank? Kinda looking for something sub 500$ Canadian or so. Might look into liquidators or the such to see if I can find big names for cheap but it's a bit of a hassle since the few I've been able to find don't really have good online inventories and I'm relying on public transit to get around.

Was looking at this one - (Or anyone who possibly has one?) Office Star Progrid - reviews pretty positive, and it seems pretty affordable. Did catch one review that mentioned it seemed to big for someone 5'7 but that seems kinda odd, since apparently it has seat depth adjustment which I would assume would be helpful for shorter/taller.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


isndl posted:

I would avoid used Aerons because 90% of them are the old version which aren't particularly ergonomic. Office liquidators aren't a bad place to look around in case there's newer stuff though.

How can I tell if it's an old version?
This is what the seller has posted and it looks fairly similar to the one I have at work. (Lumbar support looks different.) Offering it at 400$ which is why I'm interested.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


I got the Steelcase Series 1 on a bit of an impulse, thinking it had to be an improvement over the 200$/300$ generic office chair I previously had...and I'm not sure I'm too happy with it.

The seat pan adjustment sounded great since I'm on the shorter side and a lot of chairs are fairly deep so it can be hard to get the right leg clearance, although it doesn't lock in super tight and can wobble a bit, I don't think this has been a problem in pratice, but it just seemed odd. The arm rests also go pretty low and are really adjustable which is nice, and was a pretty big limitation of my old chair, but the feel like they're slanted downward slightly? Unfortunately the back of the chair just kind of feels all wrong? It's difficult to describe what exactly bugs me about it - maybe it's too stiff? Should a chair like this have a "break in" period? I've had it for about two weeks now. The lumbar support feature feels fiddly and I can't find a spot where it feels consistently comfortable - you can apparently just set it to it's lowest point to "disengage" it, but I've found that occasionally uncomfortable too.

It's a bit frustrating because there's little to no reviews of this chair still so I can't really find if anyone else has had similar experiences.

e: fml I apparently can't even return it even if end up wanting to.

Oxyclean fucked around with this message at 16:28 on May 9, 2018

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


Anyone have desk/chair/setup recommendations for someone on the shorter side? (5'2) Or just general ergonomic tips if you've been in a similar situation?

I came by maybe a year ago with some similar questions, I got a desk from Ikea that has adjustable height, as well as swapped out my 7 or so year old desk chair for a Steelcase Series 1 that had much better adjust-ability, but honestly after some time while some previous problems with hand discomfort/pains got better, I'm really not finding it to be very comfortable overall.

What I'm not really getting is I feel like I should be really close to what ergonomic calculators say I should be at- for my height the surface should be at 23" from the ground - my desk's lowest setting is around 26" and I'm using a footrest, so my arms are in a good position, but I'm frequently finding my legs uncomfortable. I think part of the problem is the Series' 1 has a fairly curved cushion so it's a bit weird for how I sit? But I can't help but feel like the height of the chair might be an issue despite that the foot rest should be making up the difference?

Sorry this is a bit of a mess, this has become a bit of a stress point for the past year or so.

e: To give something a bit easier to respond to, when I last came around some people suggested to avoid older model HM Aerons - is there an easy way to tell them apart from the "good" ones? While looking at liquidators, I've seen a few different looking ones - black with horizontal lumbar, black with the Xish shaped lumbar, and sliver with the Xish shaped lumbar. Doing some light research, there also seems to be a "remastered" which has a vertical style lumbar -is the Classic/Remastered the old/new people generally mean?
e2: This is the seller I'm looking at: https://www.kijiji.ca/o-profile/68053660/1 Looks like they have some Leap V2s as well, which I've heard good things about?

Oxyclean fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jul 18, 2019

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


Koskun posted:

Have you thought about adding a keyboard tray to the desk to lower the height your arms have to go to? Looking at that desk it would be pretty easy to set one up under it that could bridge that 3" or be really close.

I've mentioned in this thread before about how easy it is to make a really robust one for 30-50 bucks with very minimal tools.

I'm not super keen on a keyboard tray since I have a drawing tablet (wacom intuos) that would be a bit tricky to find space for, short of having a really deep tray?

But in regards to adding a tray to this desk - what would be the approach? There's a metal brace that crosses underneath, would I mount to that rather then the underside of the surface?

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


Anyone ever use a monitor stand like this? I'm debating between something like that and something more basic like this for lifting my monitors up a bit more. (Got them stacked on some textbooks for the moment)

I have some monitor arms at work - but it's a separate arm for each monitor. The ones I have at work feel very easy to bump out of position and hard to get "quite right" as silly as that might sound. Having a cat who loves to rub his face on the corner of my monitor also makes me consider something more fixed.

The arm solution I linked certainly looks more elegant and would free up space under the monitor, though I'm curious how well the design works - it feels like it could easily get front-heavy.

e: Oh, apparently its on amazon for much cheaper, and there's a ton of designs like it.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


Yeah, I was consider clamp or non-clamp, but my desk is pretty deep so it could cause problems for positioning the arms, and the surface is pretty thin (2cm) so I'm a little iffy on how well that will take to a clamp, particularly one holding two monitors.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


Nice setup!

Speaking of standing desks, I'm currently looking into getting a sit-stand (partially because low-adjust desks are really rare otherwise) but I'm a bit curious about how to deal with cord management. I would prefer to avoid putting the PC on the desk, but I feel like that's going to leave me with a lot of cords that have to deal with the desk raising and lowering.

I've never used a USB hub before - my current keyboard has a USB passthrough, but takes up two USB on the back of my PC in turn. Do USB hubs have drawbacks if they're passing multiple USB back into a single port? Assuming I can just put a hub with a long enough cord on the desk and just plug most of stuff into that, that might avoid any hassles about cord movement when the desk raises and lowers. (Though I'll certainly have cord spaghetti behind my monitors)

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


I think I might just need some longer cords/cord extensions in certain situations. A loom might also solve my worries of snagging or something.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


I think I want to mount a powerstrip to the underside of my sit-stand desk but would prefer not to have to drill anything - would command strips do the trick? Anyone do something like that?

There's also a small gap between parts of the underframe and the underside of the desk - I think I could slip cable ties in there and tie the strip to that, if I wanted.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


Re: Powerstrip desk mounting -
I was able to cable-tie a small power strip to the underside of my desk - the bar that crosses underneath isn't flush with the desktop for the full length, so I could sneak the ties through. Seems sturdy enough for the 3 things I'm plugging into it. My cord management is still a horrible mess though. Right now I have a usb hub on the desk and i've just tried to bundle and tie my usb cords. I could maybe hide some of it underneath the desk, but that means spaghetti into the grommet.

For anyone doing a sit-stand thing, is there like an anti-fatigue mat that doubles as a chart mat? Are they generally okay to use chairs on? I recently got one of those cheap plastic chair mat since I was starting to notice some wear on the carpet, but it doesn't seem ideal for standing on for longer periods of time.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


Daric posted:

You gonna tell us what they are?

If I had to wager a guess, they look like anchors you can shove a zip tie through. Stick one to the underside of your desk and zip tie the cables so they sit mostly flush with the underside.

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Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007




Looking for some feedback / ideas for cable management on a sit-stand setup.

The problem: I'm having some issues with cords snagging on the back of the PC when swapping from sit-to-stand, and just general annoyances with cord slack/pull when swapping heights.

I considered putting the PC on the desk, but that sort of just changes what cords are going to be a problem since I have a bit of an awkward setup where my switch connects to one of my monitors + the line-in of the PC. Putting the switch on the desk doesn't help cause it connects to the TV/router.

Is there some kind of hub that I could use as an intermediary? that way the cord length from the hub to my peripherals is consistent? I have a powered USB hub that sort of helps with USB stuff, but I'm worried it's a little dodgy - one time when I plugged in my switch pro controller into it, I think a bunch of my usb device drivers crashed or something and my USB mic stopped working till I plugged it directly into my PC.

Maybe I'm overthinking things and I just need some good cable ties and somewhere to anchor the cords so they don't get caught on the back of the pc? Just feels like that might be tricky with how spaced out the cords are on the back panel and how close the desk is at the low setting.

There's also the matter of trying to make it nice and clean so I don't have cord spaghetti everywhere, but that feels tough when you do need slack in places.

Also, is there a such thing as a mat that doubles both as a chair mat and anti-fatigue standing mat? I cant imagine something like that would last very long/work very well? The carpet under my desk is kind of already a bit hosed up from when I wasn't using a chair mat, but the chair mat doesn't feel very comfortable to stand on for long.

e: one more - Right now I've shoved my mic (yeti snowball) behind my monitors - it's not ideal - I'm not exactly recording podcasts or streaming so it's not the end of the world, but is there an arm or similar that could get it in a better position without placing it in the way of my monitors? Would positioning it above my monitors but pointing at me with an arm be worthwhile? I saw some mention of low profile mic arms, but I don't think that'd work with this mic since the mic itself is way too big.

Oxyclean fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Jun 3, 2023

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