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Happiness Commando
Feb 1, 2002
$$ joy at gunpoint $$



I have a Dell MD 3820i full of SSDs on a 10 gig network and all of my benchmarks have random writes maxing out at 45 MB/s. Two different Dell teams have looked it over and and both of them say everything is configured correctly. The escalated pro support guy told me that the performance I was seeing was expected. The pro deploy guy thought that maybe my SSDs were bad. All 20 of them, I guess.

I hate Dell so much right now.

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Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

Bless You Ants, Blants



Fun Shoe

BonoMan posted:

Yeesh. I'm guessing y'all are talking about non-video products right? Most companies that use Adobe video software (premiere and after effects) work pretty exclusively from network shares (in some form or another).

https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pr...-media-dva.html

quote:

Adobe Technical Support only supports using Adobe Premiere Pro, Adobe Premiere Elements, After Effects, Encore, Media Encoder, Prelude, or SpeedGrade on a local hard disk.

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002


Jade Ear Joe


Ha, I looked that up JUST as you were posting it.

Jesus, Adobe. Way to be oblivious to how non-freelancer companies actually work.

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

Bless You Ants, Blants



Fun Shoe

Happiness Commando posted:

I have a Dell MD 3820i full of SSDs on a 10 gig network and all of my benchmarks have random writes maxing out at 45 MB/s. Two different Dell teams have looked it over and and both of them say everything is configured correctly. The escalated pro support guy told me that the performance I was seeing was expected. The pro deploy guy thought that maybe my SSDs were bad. All 20 of them, I guess.

I hate Dell so much right now.

I'm pretty sure the MD3 is in no way designed as an all-flash box. I'm not saying that your speeds are indicative of everything working fine, but I think filling one up with Dell-priced SSDs is a waste of money.

Happiness Commando
Feb 1, 2002
$$ joy at gunpoint $$



Thanks Ants posted:

I'm pretty sure the MD3 is in no way designed as an all-flash box. I'm not saying that your speeds are indicative of everything working fine, but I think filling one up with Dell-priced SSDs is a waste of money.

They sold us a Compellant - which we didnt need - but didn't tell us that it required 240V. We run 120V for no good reason. They took the Compellant back and gave us an MD with all flash at a sweet price point. The sweet price point is not worth having to deal with them.

Devian666
Aug 19, 2008

Take some advice Chris.



Fun Shoe

Internet Explorer posted:

I have no idea if this knowledge is still current or not, but in general Adobe products seem to have a weird aversion to network storage. If they are saying they get bogged down or crash when working "off the network" I would first work with Adobe to see if what they are doing is supported on network shares before dropping a bunch of money.

Something I noted in a LTT video (link below) is that they were having multiple computers crash at the same time running adobe products. They found it was a network storage latency problem. They went to SSD servers. Probably not needed for indesign and photoshop, but obvious why they won't provide any support for network shares (their terrible code).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQED3tF8wuw

The QNAP rack mentioned does have 4 x 1 Gbs ports. The one cool thing with the QNAP interface is that it makes using multiple ports easy with a variety of options for configuring them. You could have 4 people working with full 1 Gbs speed to the NAS. It might solve the problem but the LTT solution in the video (for their video editing) was to have 10 Gbs networking.

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

Bless You Ants, Blants



Fun Shoe

The most fun can be had running Macs off SMB shares and Adobe products! poo poo SMB support from Apple, barely functional OS support for six months after the OS is released, Adobe's general attitude towards modern IT environments. It's all a lot of fun.

YOLOsubmarine
Oct 19, 2004

Breaux, Breaux, you seen a defense around here anywhere!?


Happiness Commando posted:

I have a Dell MD 3820i full of SSDs on a 10 gig network and all of my benchmarks have random writes maxing out at 45 MB/s. Two different Dell teams have looked it over and and both of them say everything is configured correctly. The escalated pro support guy told me that the performance I was seeing was expected. The pro deploy guy thought that maybe my SSDs were bad. All 20 of them, I guess.

I hate Dell so much right now.

What benchmark tool are you using? How many workers, what is the IO size, what queue depth(s) how many concurrent IOs per host, etc? What latencies are you seeing at max IO rate?

This could just been poor performing storage but itís like a poorly configured benchmark.

PCjr sidecar
Jan 26, 2011

dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme



Happiness Commando posted:

I have a Dell MD 3820i full of SSDs on a 10 gig network and all of my benchmarks have random writes maxing out at 45 MB/s. Two different Dell teams have looked it over and and both of them say everything is configured correctly. The escalated pro support guy told me that the performance I was seeing was expected. The pro deploy guy thought that maybe my SSDs were bad. All 20 of them, I guess.

I hate Dell so much right now.

What raid config?

Happiness Commando
Feb 1, 2002
$$ joy at gunpoint $$



YOLOsubmarine posted:

What benchmark tool are you using? How many workers, what is the IO size, what queue depth(s) how many concurrent IOs per host, etc? What latencies are you seeing at max IO rate?

This could just been poor performing storage but itís like a poorly configured benchmark.

Crystal Disk Mark on default settings - 4kb with 8 queue 8 thread and 32 queue 1 thread came up with the weird results. To a lesser extent, 1 queue 1 thread was also interesting. We looked at the performance tab in the Dell MD config tool and it came up with more or less exactly the same figures. I ran the same benchmark against a number of configs, here is what I saw:
SSD RAID 6, SSD RAID 10, SSD Disk Pool (Dell's 'something like RAID6' implementation'), and HDD RAID 10 all had the same figures - roughly 40 MB/s for 8q/8t and 32q/1t and 10 MB/s for 1q/1t.

SSD RAID 10 locally installed behind some PERC on one of my ESX hosts returned 400 MB/s for 8q/8t and 32q/1t and 80 MB/s for 1q/1t. My laptop with a consumer level SSD returned on the order of 150 MB/s for 8q/8t and 32q/1t and 20? MB/s for 1q/1t.

I acknowledge that synthetic benchmarks aren't real world, and I don't know how to properly benchmark storage. We were just looking to compare the new SSD arrays to our existing spinning disks to see whether we needed to do a combination of RAID levels to hit our space targets

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002


Jade Ear Joe

Devian666 posted:

Something I noted in a LTT video (link below) is that they were having multiple computers crash at the same time running adobe products. They found it was a network storage latency problem. They went to SSD servers. Probably not needed for indesign and photoshop, but obvious why they won't provide any support for network shares (their terrible code).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQED3tF8wuw

The QNAP rack mentioned does have 4 x 1 Gbs ports. The one cool thing with the QNAP interface is that it makes using multiple ports easy with a variety of options for configuring them. You could have 4 people working with full 1 Gbs speed to the NAS. It might solve the problem but the LTT solution in the video (for their video editing) was to have 10 Gbs networking.

Thanks I'll check it out when my kid goes to bed!

Our video storage solution is all 10GbE to 100tb of central storage and it's changed our world. But that's totally PC based. The Macs to 10Gbe would be not doable in our current budget unfortunately.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

I've never seen a PERC perform anything other than poo poo. That doesn't mean anything though.

YOLOsubmarine
Oct 19, 2004

Breaux, Breaux, you seen a defense around here anywhere!?


Happiness Commando posted:

Crystal Disk Mark on default settings - 4kb with 8 queue 8 thread and 32 queue 1 thread came up with the weird results. To a lesser extent, 1 queue 1 thread was also interesting. We looked at the performance tab in the Dell MD config tool and it came up with more or less exactly the same figures. I ran the same benchmark against a number of configs, here is what I saw:
SSD RAID 6, SSD RAID 10, SSD Disk Pool (Dell's 'something like RAID6' implementation'), and HDD RAID 10 all had the same figures - roughly 40 MB/s for 8q/8t and 32q/1t and 10 MB/s for 1q/1t.

SSD RAID 10 locally installed behind some PERC on one of my ESX hosts returned 400 MB/s for 8q/8t and 32q/1t and 80 MB/s for 1q/1t. My laptop with a consumer level SSD returned on the order of 150 MB/s for 8q/8t and 32q/1t and 20? MB/s for 1q/1t.

I acknowledge that synthetic benchmarks aren't real world, and I don't know how to properly benchmark storage. We were just looking to compare the new SSD arrays to our existing spinning disks to see whether we needed to do a combination of RAID levels to hit our space targets

Are you using a VM for testing? If so, Is the MD storage attached directly to the VM via in guest iSCSI or is it a datastore that the VM resides on?

Crystal also isnít the best tool to use for this unless your concern is simply absolute read write throughout and even then itís probably not. You really need a tool that provides response time. If youíre only getting 2000 4K iops but the latency is .5ms then the problem isnít the storage itís something else.

Also local disk latency and performance is tough to compare to SAN or network attached because the effect of device and file system caching can be very different between the two depending on OS and storage driver and how the benchmark tool calls for IO.

Happiness Commando
Feb 1, 2002
$$ joy at gunpoint $$



The VM is residing on a datastore. Can you suggest a tool that would give me, a non-expert, more valuable insight?

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002


Jade Ear Joe

Devian666 posted:

Something I noted in a LTT video (link below) is that they were having multiple computers crash at the same time running adobe products. They found it was a network storage latency problem. They went to SSD servers. Probably not needed for indesign and photoshop, but obvious why they won't provide any support for network shares (their terrible code).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQED3tF8wuw

The QNAP rack mentioned does have 4 x 1 Gbs ports. The one cool thing with the QNAP interface is that it makes using multiple ports easy with a variety of options for configuring them. You could have 4 people working with full 1 Gbs speed to the NAS. It might solve the problem but the LTT solution in the video (for their video editing) was to have 10 Gbs networking.

So I ended up finally watching that video. Very neat and it's very similar to our setup minus the SSDs and watch folder server (although that's something we've thought about building).

We basically do 50TB with realtime backup to another 50TB. All editor machines connected via 10GbE. Then things go to "nearline" after 6 months and then off to LTO after another few months.

It's freakin' awesome and we work with RAW 4K RED footage all the time. We never transcode for editing. I love 10GbE. Even with our non-SSD hard drives it's blazing fast.

Two problems - we have no offsite backup and management won't pay for it. Lol. And it cost about $25-30K and management won't pay for something even remotely similar for the non-video departments.

I think best I'll be able to get for the non-video departments is maybe some SSD caching options with regular HDDs.

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Devian666
Aug 19, 2008

Take some advice Chris.



Fun Shoe

I'm recording a fire test in a few days on an EOS M100. I'm dreading the size of the footage, and I think it saves it as RAW but I'll be checking all the settings this weekend. Lots of fun trying all this stuff out and I haven't done any video editing for a couple of years.

Your work setup sounds decent but there's the 3-2-1 rule for backups. 3 copies, 2 on site and 1 off site. I hope that someone factors that into your workplace disaster planning.

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