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devmd01
Mar 7, 2006

Elektronik
Supersonik


Pile Of Garbage posted:

That's why you, or rather your employer/customer, pays for enterprise kit with support so that the liability is shifted up to the vendor.

This right here. Like hell if Iím gonna deal with incredibly proprietary technology that is the core of our infrastructure without someone to point the finger or have a ticket in with if something is wrong.

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Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


devmd01 posted:

This right here. Like hell if I’m gonna deal with incredibly proprietary technology that is the core of our infrastructure without someone to point the finger or have a ticket in with if something is wrong.

Seconding this. Certain things I'll always make sure we have a good/active support contract with. And I stay chummy with our account managers so they can escalate if/when poo poo hits the fan.

Pile Of Garbage
May 28, 2007





Vulture Culture posted:

Maybe slightly worse off? We were the drivers of all those resolutions. My team and I spotted the SONAS regression by ingesting 1 TB of time series metrics on NFS mounts from a compute cluster until we found a correlation between a running job and nfslock latency and chased it with the upstream developers directly. We found the 2 TB LUN regression doing a DR test. I once reported a different storage bug to VMware in which I had the specific patch release where the bug was introduced, a description of the precise area of the code where the bug lived, and an explanation of what the logic error was, and there was no fix made available for eight months.

Vendor support is amazing for dealing with hardware logistics (I'm grey enough to remember trying to source hard drives after the tsunami wrecked all the HDD manufacturing in Thailand), and there's a lot of value in smaller sets of certified releases. But it's the farthest thing from a panacea. The vendor will still introduce software bugs they can't help you with. There will still be times where you have to do the legwork and find the fix yourself. With a vendor there might be relationships and money on the table, but here's the catch: you're always losing more money from the thing being down than what you paid for it, or you wouldn't have spent the money. The pressure will always be higher on you than the company you bought the kit from.

Quoting as it got lost at the end of the last page and Vulture Culture raises a really good point. Vendors only ever test hardware and software against a certain % of possible config/interop scenarios with the list of scenarios being sorted by how common they are. This means that for the most part the vendor's product will work as expected in a standard reference config. However the moment you start to do anything even slightly unusual you can begin to encounter issues. Also that % of scenarios the vendor tests against varies from vendor to vendor and from product to product. Cisco is a good example as they go to complete poo poo the moment you go near any of their virtual software offerings (UC and Firepower, also that one component they had which was Python and ran on Windows Server, took me a three-month TAC call to work out why it wouldn't work with our wildcard certificate).

So yeah, like Vulture Culture said support isn't a panacea because the moment you start moving into somewhat-uncommon use cases, which you inevitably will when using a product at scale, you will inevitably start encountering issues.

GrandMaster
Aug 15, 2004
laidback

You're not getting it, regardless of whether they can fix the problem, you always need someone else to point the finger at. This is blameshifting 101 and keeps you employed haha

Pile Of Garbage
May 28, 2007





GrandMaster posted:

You're not getting it, regardless of whether they can fix the problem, you always need someone else to point the finger at. This is blameshifting 101 and keeps you employed haha

Pile Of Garbage posted:

That's why you, or rather your employer/customer, pays for enterprise kit with support so that the liability is shifted up to the vendor. Imagine where you'd be if you had no vendor support in the incidents you described?



Edit: I was quoting Vulture Culture's post because it raised a good point in that while yeah you can defer liability and responsibility to the vendor depending on the problem you can still end up investing an extreme amount of time in helping them to reach a resolution.

Pile Of Garbage fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Apr 23, 2021

Kaddish
Feb 7, 2002



Pile Of Garbage posted:



Edit: I was quoting Vulture Culture's post because it raised a good point in that while yeah you can defer liability and responsibility to the vendor depending on the problem you can still end up investing an extreme amount of time in helping them to reach a resolution.

This is definitely true with regards to investing time reaching a resolution but at the end of the day, in the corporate world, placing the responsibility on the vendor to provide a positive outcome is key to long-term job stability. I've identified several issues over the years, the biggest one off the top of my head was a serious SVC metromirror issue that led to data corruption. IBM released a version revision and I had a feather in my cap in the eyes of management.

Methanar
Sep 26, 2013
ASK ME ABOUT NOT TIPPING DELIVERY DRIVERS, OR ABOUT MY DIET OF CANNED BABY CORN AND CHICKEN NUGGETS

I wonder how many people got fired for buying IBM lmao

Kaddish
Feb 7, 2002



Methanar posted:

I wonder how many people got fired for buying IBM lmao

I mean, it's a meme in IT and also absolutely true. The same could really be said for other vendors, like EMC etc.

Pile Of Garbage
May 28, 2007





Kaddish posted:

This is definitely true with regards to investing time reaching a resolution but at the end of the day, in the corporate world, placing the responsibility on the vendor to provide a positive outcome is key to long-term job stability. I've identified several issues over the years, the biggest one off the top of my head was a serious SVC metromirror issue that led to data corruption. IBM released a version revision and I had a feather in my cap in the eyes of management.

Is that not just what I said? I feel like I'm going insane here. If you just wanna post about war stories then poo poo do it no need to talk it into the convo we all love to read that poo poo

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Kaddish
Feb 7, 2002



Pile Of Garbage posted:

Is that not just what I said? I feel like I'm going insane here. If you just wanna post about war stories then poo poo do it no need to talk it into the convo we all love to read that poo poo

Yes, I was affirming what you posted.

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