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ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


Intrepid00 posted:

Update since we put Lefthand boxes in production...

They are awesome :c00lbert:

Users are starting to notice the increased preformance as crap is moved off the DAS.

Just out of interest which boxes did you go for, and how many apps/users are they supporting?

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ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


So, calling around trying to find a replacement for our old Lefthand boxes. I need something in the 2-4 TB range for 2-3 ESX hosts running a typical 6-8 server Windows environment (files, exchange, sql, sharepoint etc) I spoke with someone from EMC last week and just got quoted for a dual blade NX4 with 15 x 450GB SAS drives and CIFS/NFS/iSCSI for $40+K.

What's the difference between the NX4 and the AX4? I was surprised when they started going on about the NX4 after reading all the AX4 talk in this thread. Is he just trying to sell me what seems to be the more expensive unit or is the AX4 going away? We really don't have any out of the ordinary requirements.

I've been playing phone-tag with Netapp for a couple days and look forward to seeing what they have but was a little thrown by the above EMC quote.

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


Thanks, that makes sense. I think the sales guy took my offhand comment about NFS and ran with it. $40+K is way more than I want to spend on this.

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


rage-saq posted:

Just get another LeftHand node, that way you can use your existing LeftHand stuff for secondary storage / backups / etc. Its a good platform and if your infrastructure is right it will perform more than adequately for the kind of environment you are talking about.

What their marketing doesn't tell you is that to increase capacity/iops you can't "just add another NSM to the management group" when they discontinue the models you purchased a couple months prior and can't source another one anywhere. Of course you can purchase one of the new models but due to the way their network RAID works it'll perform no better than the old modules and won't take advantage of any extra drive space despite being almost twice the price. Their "thanks for your money, now gently caress off" sales approach didn't impress me too much. I'll no doubt get a quote for their new machines for the sake of completeness but they're as far removed from my first choice as they can be.

I did take a look at the Sun 7xxx machines and have a local guy calling me back this afternoon so we'll see what happens there. Also, EMC's AX4 quote was half the price of the NX4 (NFS would be nice but not $20K nice).
NetApp still don't seem too bothered about taking our money, maybe their phones are broken. :haw:

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


What the hell is up with NetApp's pricing? Their "Windows bundle" that includes the VSS-aware snapshot tech is $3k per controller on the 2020 or $16k per controller on the 2040 for the exact same feature-set. I was leaning towards EMC until their AX4 pricing doubled when they added the VSS software. At this rate we're either going to go for Equallogic or bite the bullet and get some more HP/Lefthand boxes. Compellent are dropping by next week though, so we'll see what they say.

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


We were sold an underperforming Lefthand system that was discontinued within a few weeks of the purchase. I get the feeling they were offloading old stock. There's nothing particularly wrong with them that I've noticed but everything about dealing with them was like pulling teeth. Well, I shouldn't say everything. Dealing with their support was a pleasure, soured only by the amount of times we had to contact them. One module was DOA and its replacement died within a month or two but since then they've been fine and given us little trouble.

This was when they were still Lefthand. I called their support one time a couple months after they became HP and nobody had a clue what the gently caress was going on - much like trying to deal with AT&T. I don't know what they're like these days.

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


Do the 8 port HP Procurve 1810G-8 switches support simultaneous flow control and jumbo frames? HP have give me two different answers so far. If not, are there any other "small" switches that support both flow control and jumbo? I don't have a huge datacenter so I'd rather not drop another few grand on a couple switches if I can avoid it. The OCD in me would also make me cringe every time I saw a switch with only 25% of the ports in use by design.
Leaning towards going with Compellent at the moment, with Equallogic a close 2nd.

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


Yeah, I totally overlooked the uplinks. The Dell 5424s supports jumbo frames, flow control, lacp so that's probably where we'll go. 50% off at the moment also. Gotta save those $$$..

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


Also very interested to hear from people who have Compellent kit.
Something of a budget freeze here so the project (about 1/5th the size of yours) has been put on hold. I liked the Compellent offering but the best price we could get was 50% more than the comparable Lefthand we were also looking at. The only weird thing was the physical size of the units. As said, we'd be a small installation and the controllers alone take up 6U before you even get around to adding any of the 2U disk trays. That's exactly double the size of the Lefthand setup. Nothing of consequence but strange nonetheless.

I dream of the day I get the email "ozm, go ahead with the Compellent and throw a couple Juniper EX2200 switches in while you're at it". One day.....

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


More than likely going to put in some HP P4300 (Lefthand) boxes. Any objections to using a couple Juniper EX2200 switches?

We have some ExtremeNetworks x450e switches and my first instinct is to check out the rest of their range - the x350 perhaps - but I was recommended the Junipers so figured I'd ask here.

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


Syano posted:

Its a bit more complicated than that. Lefthand units do something they call network raid which means your lun is mirrored across units and not just disks.

Yeah, assuming you're using two units, the drives themselves are going to be in a RAID5 (maybe 10 depending on your requirements) within each unit but those units will essentially be a RAID1 (for volumes you configure as mirrored). The last time I spoke with them they suggested adding a third unit and configuring the drives internally as RAID0. No idea what their "network raid" equivalent would do then with three units - 5 I guess.

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


Anyone used ScaleComputing's products? I had a VAR talk them up the other day and while I've heard of them in passing I don't know anything specific.

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


Does anyone have any idea when Dell might be refreshing the Compellent controller offerings? I'm sure those with larger server rooms or datacenters can be a little more flexible about physical space but having to give up 6U before even attaching any disk shelves is a little much for those of us with limited rack space.

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


luminalflux posted:

This is also true of HP LeftHand systems. That is, the VAR claims that that will happen, but the HP RSSWM stuff is kinda finicky.

Back when our Lefthand stuff was still under warranty (sigh) the first we would know of an issue with the array was getting a notification from Exchange telling us the information store had dismounted. We'd see weird errors or an unresponsive CMC and open a support ticket. They would then ask us to run the script that would send then the last few days of logs. That poo poo was supposed to run daily but would fail all the time. Sometimes months would go before it was apparent it had failed. They didn't ever seem surprised or give a poo poo that their systems had stopped reporting. I'm sure it's different now but there's pretty much zero chance of us spending on anything Lefthand-related again.

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


luminalflux posted:

The email reporting is a lot better in SAN/iQ 9 than 8.

Ours are on 7. :monocle:

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


What's the deal with Equallogic? I seem to remember looking into their kit a couple years ago and there was some issue with the controllers not being active/active, or something to do with how they failed over. What are the EQL gotchas I should be looking at? They're probably going to push us towards Compellent, which is fine by me, but I don't sign the checks so that may not happen.

Had another VAR pushing NexSAN quite heavily. Anyone have experience with them?

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


Is there anything wrong with NL-SAS drives for a small VMware installation (max 3 hosts, typical AD, Exch, SQL environment)?

We're looking seriously at an Equallogic PS4100X with 24 x 600GB 10K NL-SAS drives.

The capacity in fine, and the estimated IOPS look more than adequate but I'm not entirely convinced about the bit where everything is stored on a bunch of 2.5" SATA drives. It doesn't feel quite right. Anyone got one of these in production?

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


I guess I have a fundamental misunderstanding of what NL-SAS is. I assumed it was marketing speak for what is essentially a SATA drive, hence my "bunch of SATA drives" comment.

Also I should say this is all coming off a conference call and I don't have the exact quote in my hands yet so my scribbled notes may not be 100% accurate. I know that the drives were 600GB 10K so I guess they're SAS after all.

As far as load, max 80 Exchange 2007 users with a dozen DynamicsGP on SQL2005 and a half dozen on a different app on SQL2008. Aggregate R/W across the whole environment right now is 80/20.

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


Ok, so NL-SAS really is essentially SATA but the 10K 600GB drives we're looking at are actually proper SAS drives. That clears up some confusion, thank you.

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


evil_bunnY posted:

I don't know about that DynamicsGP business but 80 exch2k7 users is basically nothing.

Yes, most of our storage demand comes from CAD and internal engineering/design apps.

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


Aniki posted:

netapp quote shenanigans.

I've tried to get quotes for Netapp from two VARs in my state. The first partner I tried kept quoting things way out of our price range and being far too aggressive, leaving huge amounts of voicemails/emails that just put us off dealing with them.

The other partner calls or emails me every now and then talking about the quote we're going to get but not actually providing it. In one email (sent after the quote was apparently ready) they wanted to know what type of power cables we might need, another was essentially "come drive two and a half hours to attend a sales pitch about other tech we might sell you, oh, and we might show you the Netapp quote also." Are all Netapp resellers this weird because the two I've dealt with so far have been shady as gently caress.

Did you have any luck with Equallogic?

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


Well, six weeks after requesting a Netapp quote we finally received it on the day we racked our new Equallogic. :v:

ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


Number19 posted:

Oh hey look it all worked like it's supposed to and not like the other times where the nodes refused to fail over and everything went offline.

It's my lucky day.
The only thing (the only thing) I miss from the old Lefthand gear is being able to reboot a controller without having an outage, however minor that outage may be. EQL has a few seconds of "hooly poo poo what's happening?" while the passive controller comes online.

Internet Explorer posted:

And this is why Equallogic is destroying EMC and NetApp in the SMB market. Not everyone has someone on staff who can babysit the SAN day in and day out.
Well, that and $$$. We finally got a NetApp quote on the day we installed the Equallogic and it was more than double what we paid for EQL for around half the capacity. We could have brought it down to a comparable price by opting for a single controller, something the VAR recommended..

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ozmunkeh
Feb 28, 2008

hey guys what is happening in this thread


Internet Explorer posted:

Wow. Really? I'll have to check the latest release notes. Do you know what version introduced this? I've stopped following Equallogic releases now that all my time is spent wrangling our VNX.

Maybe it's in the 6.0.0 beta release? I can't see anything in the 5.x release notes.

NippleFloss posted:

Don't ever let a VAR talk you into buy a single controller NetApp for anything other than scratch storage or backups. Production storage should be fault tolerant and a single controller has a myriad of ways it can fail. If that's the only way to get NetApp price competitive then you should just go with the competitor or look for a NetApp VAR who will try to work with you without crippling the device.

Oh, agreed. We had already written off NetApp mostly because both NetApp VARs we spoke with were fantastically shady - like Devious Dave's used car lot "We Finance" levels of shady. No thanks. The eventual quote (that was 2 months in the making), with tax, was a few dollars under $60K for 12x2TB SATA disks.

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