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Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


InferiorWang posted:

I started to spec up a server to run the VSA software on. We're a Dell server shop, so I figured I'd stick with them. I've asked for a quote for an R710 with embedded ESXi 4.1, the free one. I'm looking at doing a simple RAID5 SATA 7.2k array. Since this would be DR and only the most critical services would go live, I'm guessing using SATA isn't a horrible choice in this case. No oracle or mssql except for a small financial package using mssql, which has 10 users at the most at any one time. GroupWise(no laughing) and all of our Novell file servers would be brought online too. 32GB of RAM. Anyone see anything completely wrong with that hardware setup?

We now have 3 R710's and they have been running great so far. Similar disk array as you are looking at, all running ESX 4.1

Biggest thing we currently have virtualized on one is a crap program that runs on top of an Advantage DB, around 80+ users working on it daily (not too much I/O), and its been running great.

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Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


demonachizer posted:

So I just got out of a meeting with a vendor and we are going with a two site lefthand SAN solution but they were trying to sell us on a RAID 1 setup which I have never heard of. It is either RAID 10 or 5 if I am correct?

Raid 1 is just mirrored. So if you have 2 drives that are 1tb each, they will mirror eachother, giving you 1tb of storage, and the ability for one drive to die.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


So has/is anyone here working with a Qnap TS-809-RP?

My work recently got 4 of these (2 at each site), and I'm starting to wonder on the actual performance we are getting out of them. I didn't do much setup on them (was done by my boss), so never sat down and got any good data from the start.

We were in the process of getting a ESX backup software setup yesterday, and performance between the two boxes seemed extremely sub-par. Ran some tests with IOMeter, and I'm trying to figure out if the NAS is to blame, or if something is misconfigured.

When running a Max Throughput test (50% Read), its showing read and write IOps a little below 1400. Both read and write speeds are between 40-43 MBps.

When running a Real life test (60% Random 65% Read), its showing 105 IOps Read and 56 IOps write (on one NAS), and 70 IOps read and 37 IOps write (on the second NAS). read MBps was between .8-.5 and write was between .4-.3

Our arrays are running 8x1tb Sata 7200rpm disks, Raid5.

Any input on this? Is this what I should expect with a low end unit, or is something messed up?

EDIT:

Just noticed they released a new firmware 3 weeks ago, going to upgrade to that tomorrow and see if anything changes. Something has to be going terribly wrong.


EDIT:

Updated FW today, same terrible results...no fun.

Moey fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Mar 9, 2011

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


Vanilla posted:

Naaaaaa bro, the VNXe has been in that space for aaages.

Starts at 10k

http://virtualgeek.typepad.com/virtual_geek/2011/01/vnxe-incredible-things-in-tiny-transformer-like-packages.html

Why is no one mentioning Dell?

When we went for shared storage my boss went with a Dell MD3200. Is there a reason no one seems to be touching these (in these forums) for smb storage solutions?

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


evil_bunnY posted:

I hear MD3k's are real easy to rack maybe you should look into those.

The first MD3220i we bought we ordered the Dell Rapid Rails. These things rock. Snap into place in the rack, slid out and just drop the unit in. Our ordered a second one 6 months later for our other site, ordered the same Dell Rapid Rails, but these ones were static. They would snap into place, then it is just a shelf to slide the unit onto. I was very confused. Chatted with our Dell rep, he had no idea. I did an online chat with a few different Dell people, they are all convinced that the MD3220i never comes with sliding rails, only static. How the hell did I get sliding rails with my first unit?

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


Corvettefisher, what kind of hardware are you using for your home test lab? I am setting up something similar for myself for both studying and personal use with some old hardware I have laying around. I'm still on the fence about either building a dedicated storage box, or doing something virtual.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


the spyder posted:

Storage nightmare!

Out of curiosity, what kind of company/size are you at where production is running on custom setups like this? I would love the opportunity to roll some non-standard storage (minus the headaches, it would be fun to learn), but off the shelf systems are solutions which will not get my department fired.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


Serfer posted:

As if you needed another reason to not buy EMC, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDhx6ECNww4

I am pretty sure if I wore one of those shirts, after trying to explain it any of my friends, I would get smacked in the face.

Edit: I still kinda want one.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


Are you really asking if $2300 per disk is a lovely price or am I reading this wrong somehow?

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


I have not worked with EMC before, but that seems quite high.

Edit: Actually looking around online, 600gb 15k 2.5" drives do seem to be quite pricey.

Edit 2: The unit you mention takes 3.5" disks. That seems insanely high.

Moey fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Sep 7, 2012

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


M@ posted:

Not to be overly spammy, but if you can use refurb equipment, my company deals in all 3 of those product lines. I'd be happy to quote out some gear for you if you're interested.

We have been dabbling in more used/refurb equiptment. It hasn't bitten us in the rear end...yet.

All of our storage stuff is still new, but switches and servers have been refurbs lately.

CF, let me know what you end up with for new storage (also what space/speed specs drove your decision).

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


Corvettefisher posted:

I am evaling a some VNX 5300 and VNXe 3150/3300 as well as some cybernetics and netapp.

If you want to talk about some storage stuff email me, I might be able to do a join.me demo and show you some stuff on the netapp I work with. I don't mind posting the poo poo hear but to fully answer your questions PM/Email me.


E: I would cheap out on anything but storage for virtualization it is the heart and soul of your infrastructure I would love to take a look at the refurbs buthonestly I don't feel comfortable implementing them, however, I might know someone who is.

I'll try to remember to PM you later on it. Since I only work internally any our firm isn't giant, I don't get to deal with much outside of the stuff my old boss randomly picked (a few Dell MD3220i, QNAP NAS units). We have expanded on that "standard" as well as iSCSI. I currently don't see the need to introduce any NFS storage since iSCSI has been meeting my needs, but seeing the management of some other block storage devices would be cool.

Is anyone here running DRBD in production? I have always found it interesting (my old boss used to always talk about using "doubletake") but have not heard much talk of it.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


cheese-cube posted:

I haven't seen that picture but I'm imagining a server with a bunch of 4-port USB PCI cards and a bazillion external USB HDDs plugged into it. Please tell me that is the case because it would be hilarious.

Either that, oooorrrr a thumbdrive array.

http://gigaom.com/mobile/usb_thumb_drive/

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


Nomex posted:

No joke, one of my clients used to use USB drives essentially as backup tapes. They had something like 160 Lacie dual 500GB USB drives that they hooked to 6 separate servers, one for each day of the week and one for the weekend. The shipping case to take them offsite was immense and the failure rate was spectacular.

We make a copy of our nightly backups to a 3tb drive in a USB 3.0 enclosure. They get picked up everyday for offsite storage then come back a week later. Once a month they get sent out and do not come back for archival reasons. We have not had too many issues.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


stevewm posted:

Speaking of USB hardrives...

At my work we use these: http://www.addonics.com/products/saturn_cipher_dcs.php for backup. Each one has a 1TB SATA drive in them. We use 5 of them that get rotated Monday-Friday. Have worked great for us. Much more reliable than the DDS and SLR tapes we used to use, faster too.

That is pretty neat that is has a hardware key. For encryption on our offsite drives, we are just using truecrypt volumes, which have been working great.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


Section 9 posted:

Enterprise IT on a budget

Do you know what kind of IOPS you need from the setup? Also is that $20k just for the storage, or for servers/storage/licensing? Do you have include switches as well for your storage network?

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT



The MD 12x0 series are DAS units, the MD32X0 line are their entry level SANs.

three posted:

What is the benefit of continuing the traditional SAN architecture?

What if I only have a limited number hosts and have exceeded the internal (software shared) storage in them? I would be forced to purchase another host + licensing. With a traditional SAN you would just be adding on a shelf.

Moey fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Nov 9, 2012

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


three posted:

Perhaps we will see the architecture for the server change the accomodate this. No particular reason a server can't have "shelves" added.

Also, Equallogic, for example, can't have shelves added to it. You have to buy a whole new member, which includes two controllers attached to it; controllers are, more or less, "compute" so you're paying the same price in this approach that you would in the SAN-less approach except you also gain compute capacity in your virtual environment too in the SAN-less strategy.

That's pretty strange that the Equallogic line cannot expand with just shelves. So every time you want to grow your storage, you are pretty much buying an entire new SAN?

Even Dell's lesser MD32X0 line supports add in shelves with the MD12X0 DAS units.

The change you are speaking of would certainly be interesting and poses some large cost savings, but I can't see this expanding into large scale any time soon. It would be popular in the low cost SMB market (where the VSA is trying to get a foothold in).


Please tell me this is what your old companies RAID 0 setup was on.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


So we were gifted a single HP P4300 SAN. I brought it online today just to poke around the management of it and figured I would do some updates.

So far I am one hour into the update process (after the downloads), and it is just sitting like this. Anyone know if this is normal or if something on here poo poo the bed?

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


Moey posted:

So we were gifted a single HP P4300 SAN. I brought it online today just to poke around the management of it and figured I would do some updates.

So far I am one hour into the update process (after the downloads), and it is just sitting like this. Anyone know if this is normal or if something on here poo poo the bed?



If anyone cares about this, apparently the update did wipe out the admin login I created. Lousy HP.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


Syano posted:

I actually care, I have p4300 g2 I maintain. Did it delete your default admin account or just an account you created to do this update? Also, how did you fix it? Ive got the latest update staged and ready to install but would rather not if its gonna nuke some stuff.

I only had one admin account setup as I just brought this thing online on Friday.

It ended up nuking that account and not being able to log in to compete the update. I was still able to log in with that admin account locally though. After that I just created a new admin account and was able to complete the update.

If this thing was in production, it would have required an outage as it rebooted a few times during the update and is the only node. It was "gifted" to us from another department and will eventually be slated for a PHD Virtual backup repository.

Also for some insight, this is my first tango with HP storage. Pretty different than what I am used to (Dell and Nimble). This thing really is meant to run in "network raid" providing redundancy as this is really just a server with some disks and a single raid card. Seems to run some *nix OS but the console is just about entirely locked down.

Moey fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Apr 15, 2013

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


What's the preference with nas storage vs something that is raw block based?

I've never worked in a huge environment but I would rather have raw block storage and throw a VM in front of whatever I need to present.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


Zero VGS posted:

Yeah I see what you mean, the thing doesn't even have USB. Back to the drawing board.

Edit: How about a Proliant ML330 G3?

Dear lord.

I am turning my nose at our aging G5s and yanking them all from production as fast as I can.

No one will advise anything for you here since it is a production environment. Heading over to the "packrats unite" thread is all people running home NAS and whitebox NAS unites will get you a better idea of what you "could" (not should) build/buy.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


EMC Avamar may fit your needs. From the sales pitch I just heard you pay for your storage and they can use unlimited agents.

No idea on pricing though. They were claiming reallll good compression as well.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


Crackbone posted:

That's completely unrealistic budget unless you buy some sort of Synology/QNap rack unit and fill it with consumer SATA drives. And that's not something anybody in here would likely recommend.

Ugh. Do you know my old environment? My boss thought he was a loving IT god by taking a QNAP 1679 and filling it with SSDs. Initial performance was good, but once that thing blows up and takes down everything I will be dying laughing. Also laughing all the way to the bank as I am doing hourly contract work for them still.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


KS posted:

What I'm looking for would need to offload 20-30TB of datastores from the Compellent array for <125k, while supporting VAAI and all the other shiny VMware-related features. Definitely needs replication support, although I'll probably buy one up front. I don't care what protocol. We already support multiple. <10k IOPS total, so I don't think any of the SATA+cache arrays from the various vendors would have a problem with it. I want to throw a half dozen dev environments on this thing and not have to worry about it.

I'm looking at upgrading the Compellent controllers to SC8000s to support VAAI, plus adding 25TB more disk for around 100k. IMO that's too much. Just shopping around for alternatives. I've certainly heard good things about Nimble, but looking for others experiences.

The biggest thing I like about Nimble is to not have to worry about storage tiering. The biggest thing I hate about Nimble is I don't get to play with storage tiering.

We are currently running two CS-240s doing cross site replication as well as a CS-220 at a 3rd site. Once we start loading them up more, we have the option to add on shelfs for additional storage, add in larger SSDs for performance or add on 10GbE controllers for bandwidth.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


three posted:

Tintri is awesome, especially if your storage is only for vSphere.

Our old Nimble SE recently switched to Tintri and claims it's pretty amazing.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


What kind of bandwidth does VPLEX require to work between clusters? I assume a lot of it depends on your data, but I can't find much technical information (only 50ms).

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


Dilbert As gently caress posted:

I imagine it depends if you want vMotion or not



"Ensure the following:
 The Layer-2 network extends across the sites.
 There is adequate bandwidth between sites for the data change rate.
 If using vMotion, allow for 622 Mb/sec (5-millisecond maximum round-trip
time) of bandwidth above VPLEX bandwidth requirement."

http://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?language=en_US&cmd=displayKC&externalId=1021215

I would love to play with a setup like this.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


sanchez posted:

Remember that there is a difference between netapp style dedupe and compression like Nimble too, the latter might be a better fit.

Running a few Nimble CS-240 units. Our VDI environment at once site is about 150 thick provisioned persistent VMs (don't ask me why, I have a fuckhead for a coworker). The datastore they are on within vSphere is 5tb with a little over 1tb free. Looking at the volume from the Nimble, it is showing a 5tb volume with just under 2tb used.

I still need to figure out how Nimble does their "compression math" because it is only reporting 1.45x compression.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


Internet Explorer posted:

Does anyone have any recommendations for basic entry-level SANs or NASs that are dual controller, dual power supply, etc? Features like snapshots and data tiering don't matter so much, these would be used in very small environments. I have seen the Dell MD3200i thrown around as a suggestion. Any cheaper than that which are still recommendable?

What kind of IOPS and space requirements are you looking for?

My old environment (that I still do consulting for) currently has two MD32220i each with a MD1220i added on. They have been rock solid and provide the performance as expected (for the number of spindles).

Going with a cheaper solution (prosumer) like Synology or QNAP will drop out the redundancy features (single point of failure being the motherboard). That old environment also has 3x QNAP 1679 running. While they are cheap and perform well (filled with SSDs), they are going to fail one day, and when they do, they will fail hard. For some reason I cannot get that through their heads.

Edit:

If you are really scraping to get something cheap that isn't prosumer. You can get used Dell MD3220i units with disks on eBay with a Dell warranty. Then you can contact Dell and extend the warranty for your HW lifecycle.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-MD3220...=item232ebbf5fd

Moey fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Aug 28, 2013

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


Internet Explorer posted:

It definitely shouldn't kill the whole thing, but EMC SANs are designed for non-disruptive firmware upgrades which restart each SP in order. It's not something I would do in the middle of the day and I would probably do it during a maintenance window, but I doubt you'll "kill the whole thing." If iSCSI wasn't setup properly and you're only connecting to one SP, you will get disconnects on those LUNs.

The environment I stepped into was setup like this. One employee would do a fw update and half the servers connecting to the SAN would poo poo the bed.

Getting to rebuild everything isn't a bad thing though.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


gallop w/a boner posted:

Protocols: iSCSI (sorry that is basic information I should have included)

Flash Cache: Not in the P4000 we have.

Read/Write ratio: What is best practice for determining this? I have just been watching the 'Average Read Requests' and 'Average Write Requests' counters for a XenApp VM in vSphere. Oddly write requests are approx 4 times higher than read requests using these counters?

Have you looked into Nimble at all? You can get some pretty aggressive pricing out of them and something like a CS-220 should fit your bill.

You should be able to get a 30 day test unit and migrate your stuff onto it to make sure you are happy with the performance.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


TCPIP posted:

Is the MD3220i a good choice with 15k/10k drives?

What do you guys typically use to store massive amount of data (300 users with 40GB Exchange mailboxes)?

We could probably go with a DAS at that point if we use DAGs, but what about file servers that hold a lot of data?

I have used a few MD3220i and enjoyed them. We were running a mix of 10k and 15k drives for different tiers.

As Dilbert said give DPAK a spin, I am willing to bet your Exchange server uses less IOPS than you think.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


KS posted:

Not really experienced with Equallogic but I seem to recall they're a special snowflake where one network is the correct config. Maybe someone can confirm. That's unusual, though. Most vendors and I believe the MS software iscsi initiator want two networks to do MPIO.

Unsure about EQ, but the PowerVault MD series wanted a different VLAN for each address.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


tehfeer posted:

Has anyone purchased a Nimble CS 220 recently? I would like to get a feel on what the pricing should be for one of these. So far hes pulling the whole "list price is 69k. Look at this killer deal we are giving you 45% off!" Feel free to shoot me a PM.

We have a few CS240s and one CS220. Our CS240s cost similar to your quoted price with discount. The CS220 was 10k cheaper.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


Internet Explorer posted:

Every time I called EMC support for our VNX5300s, they gave me poo poo because I installed it myself. They wouldn't outright deny the support request, but it was a waste of 30 minutes every time I called.

This would make me furious. I have very specific OCD for racking and cabling stuff.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


madsushi posted:

Nimble was great, except when it came to replication. We had some serious issues with replication performance across a VPN, and their answer was "welp we don't know why it starts and stops replicating at random".

Currently replicating across a lovely 50meg link and having no issues.

Running the latest Firmware?

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT


demonachizer posted:

What is the general opinion of Nimble with you guys? We are considering them for a project and like what we see so far but just are wondering about real world experiences also.

Been using a few of them for a while now (CS-240) and have no complaints except. They are dead simple to configure and just seem to work. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

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Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT



I somehow must have lost train of thought there, no complaints here currently. Been running them for 18 months or so.

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