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MBA Student chiming in.KingMorse posted:So I reread my post from last night and I did sound pretty negative. My apologies, extraneous education is kind of a soapbox of mine. I would agree that it isn't a requirement for success, but it's pretty drat helpful. You can be successful without it, but it will give you a leg up on the competition when it comes to job hunting. Also, depending on the job/company, it's pretty much expected. I know for my job, I've gotten to the point where everyone above me has an MBA, so I know if I want to progress, I need one too.
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Oct 10, 2008 21:03
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mongol posted:MBA Student chiming in. I think the other part of my initial post that is important is that a lot of this depends on your chosen route. If you're happy being a part of the machine, you will benefit from an MBA. If you're not, you probably won't.
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Oct 10, 2008 21:32
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KingMorse posted:I think the other part of my initial post that is important is that a lot of this depends on your chosen route. If you're happy being a part of the machine, you will benefit from an MBA. If you're not, you probably won't. I am going to attempt to quantify exactly what it is you're saying, followed by a question: Basically, getting an MBA is one of the best ways to get above middle management and be part of the upper class (1%), albeit the lower echelon of the upper class (250-500K salary, net worth in the 5-10 million but not ridiculous high net worth), but it is not the way to become a mega baller. So here's my question: I'm a software engineer of a few years, planning on going for an MBA eventually (though likely not for another 3-4 years, considering my happiness in current situation including life and salary). I have a meh GPA of 3.0 from a meh school of Rutgers with a good major of Computer Science (wish I'd tried harder in college) and a freaking awesome 740 GMAT. Will I be able to get into a top MBA school...assuming I'm willing to do whatever it takes to help my application over the next few years(suggestions for this would be appreciated)? And if so, am I correct in summarzing what you're trying to say? Would I be able to move up the corporate ladder with that 250-500K salary I'm speaking of and suddenly no longer want to vote Obama 
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Oct 10, 2008 21:42
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Don Wrigley posted:I am going to attempt to quantify exactly what it is you're saying, followed by a question: This is not too bad of a way to say it, but I have some issue with the phrase "one of the best ways". It's *a* way but if you're looking for what's going to give you the highest probability of getting to that top 1% it could very well be something other than getting an MBA. I would also argue that the proportion of people who have MBAs and live in that top 1% is probably not nearly as high as you'd think compared to other college graduates or those with other post-grad educations. I'm telling you, MBAs really are a dime-a-dozen and one is going to only help you if you wind up in a very specific sort of environment. Another way to look at this is that in terms of raw numbers (not proportion) there are probably way more non-MBAs in the top 1% than MBAs. Also as a sort of random aside, if you want to hit that top 1% your chances are way higher going to med school than getting an MBA. Not that those here would be interested in such a thing, I'm just using it as an example. Regarding your other question, I don't know - you'll have to ask someone in admissions at the sort of school you're going after.
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Oct 10, 2008 22:25
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KingMorse posted:I think the other part of my initial post that is important is that a lot of this depends on your chosen route. If you're happy being a part of the machine, you will benefit from an MBA. If you're not, you probably won't. Entrepreneurial endeavors would benefit greatly from an MBA. It's a generalist degree and allows for a broad scope of knowledge that would be useful to anyone involved in business. The days of the man in the grey flannel suit are long dead, and while it sounds like you know people who have been very fortunate in their pursuits, I assure you that having an MBA in no way precludes you from non-traditional career paths.
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Oct 10, 2008 22:28
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locdogg posted:Entrepreneurial endeavors would benefit greatly from an MBA. It's a generalist degree and allows for a broad scope of knowledge that would be useful to anyone involved in business. The days of the man in the grey flannel suit are long dead, and while it sounds like you know people who have been very fortunate in their pursuits, I assure you that having an MBA in no way precludes you from non-traditional career paths.
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Oct 10, 2008 22:37
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ion posted:MBA's are quite expensive. Think of what a business you can set up with 100,000? From what I've been privy to, the only MBA's worth it financially are from the top 10 (Wharton, HBS, whatever the MIT one is). People from there generally get recruited to 100K+ starting salaries. Like King Morse said, there are a lot of MBA's out there and you have to find some way to distinguish yourself. Though in today's tough times on Wall Street, MBA's are kind of scrambling around, or so I hear.
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Oct 10, 2008 22:45
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Vladimir Putin posted:From what I've been privy to, the only MBA's worth it financially are from the top 10 (Wharton, HBS, whatever the MIT one is). People from there generally get recruited to 100K+ starting salaries. Like King Morse said, there are a lot of MBA's out there and you have to find some way to distinguish yourself. Though in today's tough times on Wall Street, MBA's are kind of scrambling around, or so I hear. There are figures out there for payback periods, so if that is a primary concern, it's easy to determine where the place to be it. I think Business Week publishes one, and I think Forbes does as well. The top 30-50ish or so schools are all pretty good bets long term, at least traditionally, who knows given the recent scenario though. You guys are also right that there are tons of MBA grads out there, in fact, last I checked there were something like 1200 MBA programs in the US alone. However, common sense could tell you that an MBA from a top school is more valuable in the job market than one from Eastern Idaho State or something like that. But it can not be stated enough, an MBA degree is just a tool. It is not a guarantee for anything, but having it can be useful in certain situations.
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Oct 10, 2008 23:12
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ion posted:MBA's are quite expensive. Think of what a business you can set up with 100,000? MBAs are free if your employer pays for it, which just about any medium or large sized company will do.
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Oct 10, 2008 23:28
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KingMorse posted:rich people You also have to remember there is a huge survivorship bias when you look at all these rich people and see that they all started their own businesses. It's akin to observing a lot of rich people won their money in the lottery, then concluding the lottery is a good way to get rich. What you should be asking is: what would happen if you took 1000 people that just got accepted to business School, then made 500 drop out and go become entrepreneurs, and the other 500 continue on to get their MBA/post MBA job. Which group would have the higher (median, not mean) success?
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Oct 11, 2008 02:36
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locdogg posted:Entrepreneurial endeavors would benefit greatly from an MBA. It's a generalist degree and allows for a broad scope of knowledge that would be useful to anyone involved in business. The days of the man in the grey flannel suit are long dead, and while it sounds like you know people who have been very fortunate in their pursuits, I assure you that having an MBA in no way precludes you from non-traditional career paths. I feel that we would have a fundamental disagreement over whether or not "entrepreneurial endeavors would benefit greatly from an MBA". I'd love to get into it, but fear the devolution into flamewar that may result so I'll leave that one alone. It's not that I don't respect your opinion, but that I think it's almost a religious-type issue and as a whole I stay away from those on internet forums. If you really want to make your case I'd love to hear what you have to say but please understand that I may excuse myself from further discussion in this specific area. As for the idea that an MBA doesn't preclude you from a non-traditional career path: well, duh That obviously wasn't my point. It's about whether or not it'd be a waste if you plan to pursue such a career path. xdimitrix posted:You also have to remember there is a huge survivorship bias when you look at all these rich people and see that they all started their own businesses. It's akin to observing a lot of rich people won their money in the lottery, then concluding the lottery is a good way to get rich. I actually touched on this in one of my posts. I said, "Another way to look at this is that in terms of raw numbers (not proportion) there are probably way more non-MBAs in the top 1% than MBAs." Which is to admit that, I'm sure there are a higher proportion of (but not necessarily more) MBA-holders who attain at least some minor level of success compared to 'drop-outs' (c'mon, that was kind of a cheap shot you made there). We might look at this though as an exercise in risk management. If I'm the sort of guy with a lot of confidence in myself and a desire to make it huge, I would probably be better off skipping the MBA and spending my time building a business. Conversely, if I am the sort of person to let other people worry about the heavy stuff and job security means more to me than making it huge, I'd probably be better off at a big company with an MBA. Risk, reward. I'll go along with the idea in your example that the mean might be higher for those 500 MBAs but there's a decent chance that the median wouldn't. Different strokes for different folks. Along these lines, I think your point of survivorship bias is valid but it doesn't necessarily go against what my 'big point' has been. Namely, that unless you plan to work in the corporate world, the MBA may not be for you. Granted, I probably distracted from this point and opened myself up to your (again, valid) survivorship bias point by hauling off with all my anecdotal evidence so I apologize for getting off-message. Let me try to illustrate my beliefs on the matter yet another way: Group A: Bunch of random MBA students. Group B: Bunch of non-MBA college graduates. If we look at these groups, we'd probably see the following: 1. Among low-performers, the success of both groups is pretty similar. The average low-performer in Group A might one additional promotion over their lifetime so the MBAs may have a slight advantage. Also, most low-performing Group A types probably have a night-school-type MBA as opposed to one from somewhere like Harvard. Their MBA is even more of a 'rubber-stamp' affair. This would also contribute to a lack of difference between the groups. 2. Among average-performers who specifically go out into the corporate world, Group A has a significant advantage. We're probably talking the difference between making $60-75,000 and making $100,000. 3. Among average-performers who do not join the corporate world, things probably are similar to our low-performing group. An MBA doesn't help much in industries/cultures who don't appreciate them. 4. Among above-average-performers who join the corporate world, again Group A has an advantage but perhaps not as much as for the average-performers because these folks have more native ability in their favor. It's probably more hit-or-miss with these folks on whether the person above them sees the MBA as a big deal since these people are already outstanding. 5. Among above-average-performers who do not join the corporate world, an MBA could be practically worthless. With the resources they already have at their disposal, their time is probably better spent in the real world. That's my 'big point' in a nutshell. Locdogg, I hope you and others don't think I'm attempting to disparage the MBA; I just want to expound on the point you made in your very first post as to what an MBA's good for. An MBA is two years and a pile of money and going after one is a decision about which one needs to consider all the angles. Let me add that I'm really enjoying this thread. This is a topic that's always interested me, as I took quite a different path than most of my friends. Though we all did different things, we did them because that was what was going to make us happy. Life is about trade-offs, and what's good for one person isn't necessarily good for another. KingMorse fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Oct 11, 2008 |
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Oct 11, 2008 03:26
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Thoguh posted:MBAs are free if your employer pays for it, which just about any medium or large sized company will do. If your employer is going to pay for you to get a degree than by all means do it. But to personally get a MBA out of pocket? I don't think it's worth it at all. Business degrees are a dime a dozen these days, and every school that grants degrees will have a business program due to demand. Unless you're doing it at state flagship or ivy league, it's hardly worth the investment. (note too that corporations look at b-schools at a global scale, so HEC and INSEAD is usually a plus) Again, if your employer is paying that's another scenario because you're going to get a raise after you finish your degree.
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Oct 11, 2008 05:00
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I graduated with a degree in economics a year ago. I currently work as a legal assistant specializing in domestic relations and collections. Originally I wanted to go to law school. However from what I learned at my business minor and a few campus visits, I am looking more towards an MBA. Should I move towards a job that will give me more business experience versus legal experience?
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Oct 11, 2008 08:59
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Enrico Cocinar posted:I graduated with a degree in economics a year ago. I currently work as a legal assistant specializing in domestic relations and collections. Originally I wanted to go to law school. However from what I learned at my business minor and a few campus visits, I am looking more towards an MBA. Should I move towards a job that will give me more business experience versus legal experience? You can do a joint JD/MBA at a lot of schools. I met someone recently who did the Georgetown program, and they really enjoyed it.
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Oct 11, 2008 17:00
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I'm currently working toward my BS in Business Administration and Management from VCU. I have 5 years with a major retailer, 1 year as a Senior Financial Analyst. Staying at VCU and getting my MBA would be very cost effective (about $3k a semester) and not take more than 2 additional years. My concern is this: I can only do this once, and is a MBA from VCU going to be worth anything? It isn't exactly known as a business school (let alone a prestigious one), and I'm worried that it is a waste of an opportunity. Am I better off getting into management with my BS, working a few years, and then applying to an executive program at a more prestigious school?
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Oct 13, 2008 03:59
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Jealous Cow posted:I'm currently working toward my BS in Business Administration and Management from VCU. I have 5 years with a major retailer, 1 year as a Senior Financial Analyst. Staying at VCU and getting my MBA would be very cost effective (about $3k a semester) and not take more than 2 additional years. Traditionally, there is a break between BA/BS and MBA. 3-5 years for regular MBA, and 10+ of management level work experience for the executive programs. You're right that VCU isn't a hot poo poo business school, but I think you're putting the cart before the horse in this situation. My advice would be to wait until after you graduate and work for a little while before you consider an MBA. Once you know where you stand in your wants/desires/abilities/etc. you can probably make a better call as to whether you want a fancy MBA or one from a place like VCU, if at all.
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Oct 13, 2008 05:58
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What counts as 'work experience'? I graduated about a year ago (with a marketing degree) but I haven't really had a 'real, full-time' job. I've done two internships (they were pretty much crappy part-time jobs) and a part-time job on he weekends. I really want to get into advertising as a copywriter but ad agencies are being hit hard by this economy and they are not hiring any entry level positions. I feel like MBA programs want someone who has 3-4 years of solid/relevant work experience.
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Oct 13, 2008 15:45
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Omits-Bagels posted:What counts as 'work experience'?
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Oct 13, 2008 16:24
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locdogg posted:In my opinion, work experience would be any situation where you would display some level of professionalism, competency, and management potential. It doesn't mean you have to have to have years working in an office, per se, but that's the most common. In my case, my experience was working at a consulting firm in an office at a 9-5 type job, however I know some of my classmates were in the military, a few did non-profit stuff (peace corps, etc.), one guy was a pastor, one guy was the manager of a Best Buy, a few others had started their own businesses, and so on. The work experience issue is one that has no real clear answer, and while people may have differing opinions, from what I can tell its primary interest is not so much what you did as how you did it and what it indicates about your future probability of success as a manager. That is what I was worried about... my first internship was bad. All I did was write crappy articles for the companies website. I hated it and I think it showed. I was totally unmotivated and I shouldn't have ever done it. My next internship was crappy too but I had a positive attitude. The problem was that I didn't have much to do so I spent a lot of time just surfing the web. My third part-time weekend job was at a paintball place. It didn't pay well but I didn't mind working. The boss loved me because I worked hard. I'm looking to find a 'real' job now so hopefully that first internship won't come back and bite me in the rear end.
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Oct 13, 2008 17:52
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KingMorse posted:This is not too bad of a way to say it, but I have some issue with the phrase "one of the best ways". It's *a* way but if you're looking for what's going to give you the highest probability of getting to that top 1% it could very well be something other than getting an MBA. I would also argue that the proportion of people who have MBAs and live in that top 1% is probably not nearly as high as you'd think compared to other college graduates or those with other post-grad educations. I'm telling you, MBAs really are a dime-a-dozen and one is going to only help you if you wind up in a very specific sort of environment. Another way to look at this is that in terms of raw numbers (not proportion) there are probably way more non-MBAs in the top 1% than MBAs. I think you're being overly pessimistic on the MBA front. You're treating all MBAs as equal in your posts. Try to differentiate. If you're doing an online MBA from the University of Phoenix, you're going to have a different level of success than getting an MBA from Stanford. And I'm not just talking top 10 here; you'd be doing yourself a world of good getting an MBA from a place like the University of Maryland (top 30 program) or even Penn State (top 50 program). I think you're underselling an MBA here. A Harvard MBA is certainly not a dime a dozen, nor are MBAs from top 50 schools even (though they are in more abundance than said Harvard and Stanford MBA). If you're going to treat all MBAs as one and the same, you should do the same for colleges. And I'd wager that a guy getting an MBA from a terrible school is doing better, on average, than a guy getting an associate's degree at community college or a bachelors degree at the bottom rung of schools in the country.
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Oct 13, 2008 18:12
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Don Wrigley posted:You're treating all MBAs as equal in your posts. Try to differentiate. If you look at my post later where I spell out low-performer/average-performer/et cetera I do differentiate and accommodate for the fact that higher performing people are more likely to have a more valuable MBA.
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Oct 13, 2008 18:26
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KingMorse posted:If you look at my post later where I spell out low-performer/average-performer/et cetera I do differentiate and accommodate for the fact that higher performing people are more likely to have a more valuable MBA. I'm not trying to get into an argument over he said/she said, pointing out minor inconsistencies, etc. What I'm trying to point out is that while you can talk about higher performing people having more valuable MBAs, the same can be said with anything. Higher performing people are more likely to have more valuable bachelors degrees. How is this different when it comes to an MBA?
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Oct 13, 2008 18:41
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Anyone that's interested in the world of MBA should check out Ahead of the Curve by Philip Delves Broughton. It's less about the technical stuff and more about what it's like working towards an MBA at Harvard. I'm only 70 pages in but it's been pretty informative and entertaining so far. Amazon link here: http://www.amazon.com/Ahead-Curve-Harvard-Business-School/dp/1594201757/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1224130824&sr=8-1
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Oct 16, 2008 05:20
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I have a quick question -- my situation pretty much dictates that I can either get an online master's degree in the next few years, or wait until I'm ready to switch careers (roughly 10 or so years from now) and then go to school full-time for the MBA. The MBA doesn't impact my current career field at all...it's for a career change later on down the road, so I'm wondering if I should jump into it ASAP, or wait until I can do the school fulltime. Basically I'm asking if it's worth it to wait. If it matters, I'm interested in focusing on economics and government (I'm not sure if that is necessarily qualifies as an MBA or an MPA, but I figured I'd post in this thread anywway). Any insights are appreciated.
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Oct 23, 2008 10:45
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Rekinom posted:I have a quick question -- my situation pretty much dictates that I can either get an online master's degree in the next few years, or wait until I'm ready to switch careers (roughly 10 or so years from now) and then go to school full-time for the MBA. Online MBA from where vs. full time from where? If it's a matter of online u. of phoenix vs. sitting in the u. of phoenix classrooms then go for it online, but if its a difference of online u. of phoenix vs. sitting in the classroom of a major university (say a D1-A/BCS type school) then go to the real school. Like it or not, online schooling tends to be less well thought of compared to "real" schools, and it's not possible to go full online to the top tier of schools, so keep that in mind. Also you should keep in mind age, as traditional full time MBA students tend to be in that 26-32 ish age group. Wait too much longer and you severely limit your flexibility as other real world considerations (family, children, career, etc.) begin to hinder your ability to drop everything and go to school for 2 years.
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Oct 23, 2008 19:46
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locdogg posted:Online MBA from where vs. full time from where? If it's a matter of online u. of phoenix vs. sitting in the u. of phoenix classrooms then go for it online, but if its a difference of online u. of phoenix vs. sitting in the classroom of a major university (say a D1-A/BCS type school) then go to the real school. what the heck do athletic rankings have to do with anything..oh you americans
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Oct 23, 2008 22:14
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ion posted:what the heck do athletic rankings have to do with anything..oh you americans There's usually a correlation between division and academia. Big schools get better athletes and better teachers.
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Oct 23, 2008 22:24
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Thoogsby posted:There's usually a correlation between division and academia. Big schools get better athletes and better teachers. Athletic success also drives awareness/positive impression of the university as a whole. It's often referred to as the "Flutie Factor".
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Oct 23, 2008 22:42
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locdogg posted:Athletic success also drives awareness/positive impression of the university as a whole. It's often referred to as the "Flutie Factor". BC sucks. Doug Flutie sucks. We beat them in hockey last weekend and earned ourselves a shoutout on The Daily Show. #1 ranking my rear end.
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Oct 23, 2008 23:01
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Thoogsby posted:There's usually a correlation between division and academia. Big schools get better athletes and better teachers. locdogg posted:Athletic success also drives awareness/positive impression of the university as a whole. It's often referred to as the "Flutie Factor". But come on, even schools like MIT are Division III (lol nerds). Does that make them smaller? Less well known? I mean okay the Ivy League started as a sports thing, but who the heck thinks of sports when people say "Ivy League" anymore? Anywhere else in the world, college sports means nothing. Obviously I knew that locdogg was trying to hint at school size/sport size, I was just being a prick. He could have made his points using better comparisons, such as the old Carnegie classifications of "Research I" institutions.. but he instead chose a sports division. ion fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Oct 24, 2008 |
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Oct 24, 2008 10:52
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ion posted:Actually, when he said "BCS schools", I knew exactly what he was talking about as far as school quality. But hey, your approval is what matters.
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Oct 25, 2008 19:34
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ion posted:I was just being a prick. Okay. So what the gently caress is your point?
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Oct 25, 2008 19:37
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Thoogsby posted:Okay. So what the gently caress is your point? Maybe he thinks the MBA is an academic degree? 
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Oct 26, 2008 06:08
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Rekinom posted:Actually, when he said "BCS schools", I knew exactly what he was talking about as far as school quality. But hey, your approval is what matters. Thoogsby posted:Okay. So what the gently caress is your point? locdogg posted:Maybe he thinks the MBA is an academic degree? ion fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Oct 26, 2008 |
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Oct 26, 2008 11:37
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ion posted:That's probably because you're American? The MBA is an American professional degree. If you are going to pursue your MBA and hope to find something other than that, you are going to be very disappointed.
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Oct 26, 2008 18:35
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ion posted:I like how you ignore the rest of my sentence that answers your question, dumb gently caress. No I just thought that part summarized your post nicely. ion posted:Anywhere else in the world, college sports means nothing. Fantastic, we're talking about American schools. What is the point in coming into a thread about an American degree and just saying "Yea well its not like this in other places!". Whats wrong with having a school get recognition for its sports teams? With maybe a couple exceptions, the schools with the biggest names and best academic programs have the best sports teams. It's really not that complex.
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Oct 26, 2008 20:01
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locdogg posted:The MBA is an American professional degree. If you are going to pursue your MBA and hope to find something other than that, you are going to be very disappointed. The MBA is not solely American. Business schools all over the world grant MBAs.. and obviously it's a professional degree. When have I ever disputed that? Thoogsby posted:No I just thought that part summarized your post nicely. quote:Fantastic, we're talking about American schools. quote:What is the point in coming into a thread about an American degree and just saying "Yea well its not like this in other places!".  quote:Whats wrong with having a school get recognition for its sports teams? With maybe a couple exceptions, the schools with the biggest names and best academic programs have the best sports teams. It's really not that complex. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 26, 2008 22:26
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ion posted:words look man, if you've got a legitimate question or comment, we'd love to entertain it. otherwise, maybe you shouldn't post here anymore, ok?
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Oct 26, 2008 23:11
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ion posted:That's probably because you're American? I mean, what are the odds of that happening, seriously. edit: on second thought I'm done feeding this blatant trolling, thanks for the help loc Rekinom fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Oct 27, 2008 |
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Oct 26, 2008 23:13
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locdogg posted:look man, if you've got a legitimate question or comment, we'd love to entertain it. otherwise, maybe you shouldn't post here anymore, ok? Rekinom posted:Imagine that, two Americans in America on an American internet forum talking about getting a degree in America from American schools using American sports references that Americans know, in order to get a point across. ion fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Oct 27, 2008 |
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Oct 27, 2008 00:46
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